When does race stop being an excuse? when does it stop?

[C_Clayton_Jones]

rdean, a jury has made the decision.

That part is over for ever; GZ is Not Guilty.

There could still be federal charges filed.

As for Stand Your Ground, the problem is, that kind of law is popular for the same reason gun ownership is popular.

It gives people a false sense that they can control a part of their lives.

As is most often the case the issue with SYG laws is not the statute per se, but how it is understood and implemented.

In Florida, for example:

A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another…

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

“…fear of imminent peril of death…”

Needless to say the problem concerns what constitutes ‘imminent.’

We know from the Zimmerman case that in Florida that standard applies even if an armed citizen willfully places himself in a potentially dangerous situation, even after instructed not to do so by law enforcement, and predicated on racial profiling.

In essence doing something stupid and reckless doesn’t mitigate the self-defense standard.

And as is most often the case the original intent of SYG in Florida was to act as a deterrent to home invasion and car jacking, perceived to be rampant during the 90s and early part of this century. In theory, a potential home invader would indeed refrain from invading a given home if he understood he could be shot and killed by the homeowner with impunity, and where his family could file no wrongful death lawsuit.

Most of the confusion and controversy concerns SYG claims outside of one’s home.

Again, in Florida, the statute stipulates that self-defense is justified ‘anywhere a person has a right or is expected to be,’ that could be a neighbor’s home, one’s place of employment, or outside in the backyard.

The issue is further complicated by law enforcement’s inconsistent application of the law, where in one jurisdiction there’s an investigation and arrest, and others, not.

Ultimately it’s incumbent upon gun owners to at least understand the central tenet of self-defense jurisprudence: the manifestation of an imminent danger, that if a potential victim doesn’t take action immediately, serious bodily harm or death will be the likely outcome.

Once the danger has passed, however, or is otherwise neutralized, the threat is no longer imminent and a SYG defense is much less likely to succeed.

 

[poet]

Here...here is a white man, standing up for black people and his half white son:
http://wearenottrayvonmartin.com/post/55830174451/i-am-not-trayvon-martin-but-i-am-a-father

"I fear for my country if we white men cannot overcome our silly fear of the future, one where a stacked deck doesn’t give us an unfair advantage. We are Americans goddammit, we don’t fear the future. I will not fear the future. I will embrace it."


Boom!

Seriously?! Some random and probably demented guy is proof of anything?!

Who says he's demented? It sounded more like common sense and decency, more than anything else. And it's proof that there are still good white people in the world.

 

[Caroljo]

Gee, sorry, guy, men confront.

just the way of our society.

Probably would have been smarter to call the cops. Not that black folks have any reason to trust the police, but there you are.

Just the way of our society? Maybe where you live.

America? Planet Earth? Where is this land where men just consent to homosexual rape?

He had a chance to get away from him....why didn't he? Because he was a thug and wanted to teach that queer a lesson. Guess it backfired huh?

 

[poet]

He observed Martin. There was nothing even remotely illegal about that. A young punk got all puffed up and arrogant because a "creepy azz cracka" was watching him and decided to teach Mr. Zimmerman a lesson.

Lesson learned. Zimmerman scores an A+ in marksmanship.

Ernie, this is why I have you on ignore. Because, frankly, this kind of racist, gun happy shit has destroyed the Republican Party.

Observing is one thing. Following, chasing, cornering and failing to identify yourself as "not a rapist" is provoking a fight.

If you have him on 'ignore' how do you know what he posts?

The same reason I have you on ignore, yet know what you posts...I view.

 

[poet]

When does race stop being an excuse?

First, one must buy into the premise that ‘race’ is being used as some sort of excuse for something in the first place.

That’s likely not the case.

In essence we have two conflicting perceptions manifesting a great dissonance between white conservatives and blacks – where the former has grown resentful of accusations of racism it neither sees nor practices and the later has grown frustrated with what it perceives as a white majority unwilling to discuss issues concerning race.

Second, that white conservatives might believe the black perception of racism unfounded and wrong, that doesn’t assuage the legitimate feelings by blacks that racism nonetheless exists, however subjective and anecdotal – blacks have been and are followed in department stores by security, car doors have been and continue to be locked when a black approaches, and handbags and purses have been and continue to be clutched when an African-American draws near.

Third, white conservatives do exhibit what blacks perceive as an animosity toward the African-American community in general, references to ‘fatherless homes,’ ‘black on black crime,’ the accusation of black ‘entitlement mentality’ and blacks politically motivated by ‘free stuff’ – all cumulatively demonstrate to blacks if not hostility then contemptuous stereotyping and unfair generalizations.

Last, that race is perceived to be an ‘excuse’ is in of itself an aspect of the great chasm between African-Americans and white conservatives, where the right perceives blacks as not taking ‘personal responsibility’ for a given disadvantage or hardship and indirectly ‘blaming’ white America for those difficulties.

Sexism exists too. If a thug assaulted me, I would still believe I had the right to defend my life. I realize that you and your ilk want to change that. Just remember when you do you will be making murder legal.


..

How pedestrian and juvenile a response. Murder is illegal, but folks still do it. Dummy.

 

[poet]

rdean, a jury has made the decision.

That part is over for ever; GZ is Not Guilty.

And not innocent, as well.

 

[Caroljo]

rdean, a jury has made the decision.

That part is over for ever; GZ is Not Guilty.

There could still be federal charges filed.

As for Stand Your Ground, the problem is, that kind of law is popular for the same reason gun ownership is popular.

It gives people a false sense that they can control a part of their lives.

I like the sense that I have at least SOME control over my life.....if you want to live as a puppet that's you're choice. And Stand your Ground had NOTHING to do with the Zimmerman trial...it was a Self Defense trial.

 

[poet]

You think those pimps and hos, and welfare queen hoochie mammas from the baby mills in the projects are going to step up and run a country. Well, here's a flash. They're not going to.

No more than the bilble thumping trailer trash waiting for their social security check.

The only question is, which set of elites will be running the country when they win the mob.

Ahh......the tolerant left.

Since you are black, and since you are so proud to be black, why did you choose a white person's name for your moniker and why do you always have a white as your avatar?. Oh, right. So you could pass for white and make it look like you are part of the white chess pieces have some kind of power. Which you don't, and never will have because you are stupid. Hypocrite.

You are really the worst person ( and I use the term "loosely") here. Worst the Ernie S., worse than Matthew, or anyone else. Such a vile racist. Please hurry.

 

[Caroljo]

His case may change the history of SYG and DTR laws to a bit, but GZ will be forgotten in 25 years.

Why so many are still talking about SYG when discussing this trial I don't understand....this trial, again, had nothing to do with SYG. But even your President and Holder keep referring it....the want the lie to go on.

 

[JoeB131]

Just the way of our society? Maybe where you live.

America? Planet Earth? Where is this land where men just consent to homosexual rape?

He had a chance to get away from him....why didn't he? Because he was a thug and wanted to teach that queer a lesson. Guess it backfired huh?

Or he didn't have a chance to get away. Or maybe he didn't want to lead a rapist back to where his 12 year old brother lived.

So the ability to paint Zimmerman as a Hispanic having failed, you now want to paint him as a victim of gay-bashing?

 

[JoeB131]

rdean, a jury has made the decision.

That part is over for ever; GZ is Not Guilty.

There could still be federal charges filed.

As for Stand Your Ground, the problem is, that kind of law is popular for the same reason gun ownership is popular.

It gives people a false sense that they can control a part of their lives.

I like the sense that I have at least SOME control over my life.....if you want to live as a puppet that's you're choice. And Stand your Ground had NOTHING to do with the Zimmerman trial...it was a Self Defense trial.

Actually, it was "a bunch of white people giving a white person a free murder" trial.

 

[Mac1958]

.

I thought he's "White Hispanic".

.

 

[squeeze berry]

white privilege: being the default scapegoat

 

[Mac1958]

white privilege: being the default scapegoat

Y'know, that's not even what bothers me about Political Correctness. The PC Police can call me any name they want, I don't care, I know what they're doing. Look at the damage done to generations of black kids now -- the soft bigotry of reduced expectations. Hopelessness from Day One. And of course, by extension that hurts all of us, even those who are inflicting all the "helping" and "caring" on them.

Those kids deserve better.

.

 

[squeeze berry]

Ernie, this is why I have you on ignore. Because, frankly, this kind of racist, gun happy shit has destroyed the Republican Party.

Observing is one thing. Following, chasing, cornering and failing to identify yourself as "not a rapist" is provoking a fight.

If you have him on 'ignore' how do you know what he posts?

The same reason I have you on ignore, yet know what you posts...I view.

hey Sunshine,

it has you on ignores.

Congrats

 

[LoneLaugher]

It would be nice to know who the PC Police are that are calling you names.

 

[katsteve2012]

If I am a ""pompous, snot nosed, ass", it is invariably because your obvious limitations cause me to feel superior to you.

It is your fault as well as mine.

Finally you are right. My "limitations" do in fact prevent me from being an immature, self righteous jerk. If you have a need to seek superiority on a public message board you are just Insecure and neurotic. With that, kick rocks. I have nothing else to say to you.

I don't need superiority, sometimes it thrust upon me

 

[katsteve2012]

Just the way of our society? Maybe where you live.

America? Planet Earth? Where is this land where men just consent to homosexual rape?

He had a chance to get away from him....why didn't he? Because he was a thug and wanted to teach that queer a lesson. Guess it backfired huh?

Zimmerman had an arrest record that included of all things domestic violence and resisting arrest in an incident where he actually got into a physical altercation with a police officer who was lenient enough not to "stand his ground". It is ironic that Martin is still being demonized as a "criminal in training" when the actual "thug" all along was really Zimmerman. Given enough time, the system will eventually will eventually catch up with him.

 

[Caroljo]

America? Planet Earth? Where is this land where men just consent to homosexual rape?

He had a chance to get away from him....why didn't he? Because he was a thug and wanted to teach that queer a lesson. Guess it backfired huh?

Zimmerman had an arrest record that included of all things domestic violence and resisting arrest in an incident where he actually got into a physical altercation with a police officer who was lenient enough not to "stand his ground". It is ironic that Martin is still being demonized as a "criminal in training" when the actual "thug" all along was really Zimmerman. Given enough time, the system will eventually will eventually catch up with him.

If he was convicted of any of these things, then how was he able to get a permit for a gun? Martin was no Criminal in Training....by what I've read and heard he was doing a pretty good job of it. But these things weren't allowed into court. Just as if Zimmerman had any convictions in the past, these also wouldn't be allowed. Seems fair to me. This was about self defense, not SYG. They might have both been "thugs" at some time, but that doesn't negate the fact that with all evidence presented the Jury could only give a Not Guilty verdict.

 

[Caroljo]

When does it stop?

When institutional racism in this country stops.

When the myth of race itself stops.

People listen to Jackson and Sharpton, because they are right about what they are saying.

Sharpton and Jackson incite violence! They absolutely hate the white's......if you think this isn't the reason they do what they do, then why aren't they fighting to protect blacks against their own? That would cut way down on the number of blacks killed every day!!

Lies and sissy chatter. They no more incite violence than does Fox News (Hannity, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, et al.). And they do not hate whites, having done community service and assistance directly impacting whites. And please. Like you care about how many blacks are killed. Go peddle your care and concern elsewhere, because no one believes you.

Um....couldn't find one thing that shows they've done anything at all that shows they've done anything to "help" whites. By your word "impacting"....that could mean anything, doesn't mean it was good!

And F you...I really don't care if you believe me or not. So you speak for EVERYONE else? Lol! You're such a fool.