Which Came First Creation Or Evolution?

[james bond]

Wut. You believe in theistic evolution?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Oh I've read the bible New Testament old Testament and I've read the Koran

I minored in philosophy and did extensive readings on the history of religions and their evolution

I am particularly fond of the writings of Thomas Aquinas

And FYI Genesis was most likely written in the 5th or 6th century AD

No, Genesis was written between 1440 and 1400 B.C. in-between the time Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt and his death. The Bible is witness to Mosaic authorship. What you state is wrong.

Prove it

The bible is book written by men edited by men distributed by men.

Yes, Moses was a man, but the Bible states that God handed it down to him. Moses backs this up.

Absolute proof isn't there. God said as much since he is testing us just like he tested Adam and Eve. One has to take the leap of faith. And I've said it countless times that John 3:16 is a good starting place to believe. Then God reveals himself and enters your life and worldview.

The bible cannot state anything the person writing it is the one making statements

And unlike you I tend to need proof.

You mean like space and time had a beginning? Or that man came from dust?

Consider them proven.

Just because something had a beginning in no way means a supreme being was responsible

I can say the earth's existence is proven simply because it exists now and I happen to be living here

 

[Skull Pilot]

Oh I've read the bible New Testament old Testament and I've read the Koran

I minored in philosophy and did extensive readings on the history of religions and their evolution

I am particularly fond of the writings of Thomas Aquinas

And FYI Genesis was most likely written in the 5th or 6th century AD

No, Genesis was written between 1440 and 1400 B.C. in-between the time Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt and his death. The Bible is witness to Mosaic authorship. What you state is wrong.

Prove it

The bible is book written by men edited by men distributed by men.

Yes, Moses was a man, but the Bible states that God handed it down to him. Moses backs this up.

Absolute proof isn't there. God said as much since he is testing us just like he tested Adam and Eve. One has to take the leap of faith. And I've said it countless times that John 3:16 is a good starting place to believe. Then God reveals himself and enters your life and worldview.

The bible cannot state anything the person writing it is the one making statements

And unlike you I tend to need proof.

Tsk. You weren't paying attention regarding both of your statements.

Absolute proof isn't there, and even if there were, you wouldn't believe it such as the Resurrection. The Bible states people believed in Jesus performing miracles, but soon forgot since it didn't apply to their lives. What the Bible states how people will know the truth is eternal pain and suffering in the afterlife.

Also, the best atheist argument I heard was that even if hundreds of thousands of people witness a miracle, there would still be hundreds of thousands who didn't. Every atheist has to be convinced. Thus, eternal pain and suffering seems very convincing. I forgot. Why am I here again? ARRRRGGGGHHHH!!! I remember. Very effective.

There is no afterlife.

And if god s all powerful he can simultaneously show everyone in the entire universe that he exists.

It makes no sense for a supreme being to whisper in the ear of one guy

 

[ding]

No, Genesis was written between 1440 and 1400 B.C. in-between the time Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt and his death. The Bible is witness to Mosaic authorship. What you state is wrong.

Prove it

The bible is book written by men edited by men distributed by men.

Yes, Moses was a man, but the Bible states that God handed it down to him. Moses backs this up.

Absolute proof isn't there. God said as much since he is testing us just like he tested Adam and Eve. One has to take the leap of faith. And I've said it countless times that John 3:16 is a good starting place to believe. Then God reveals himself and enters your life and worldview.

The bible cannot state anything the person writing it is the one making statements

And unlike you I tend to need proof.

You mean like space and time had a beginning? Or that man came from dust?

Consider them proven.

Just because something had a beginning in no way means a supreme being was responsible

I can say the earth's existence is proven simply because it exists now and I happen to be living here

The logic of the first cause and examination of the evidence of his creation does that.

 

[BreezeWood]

Just because something had a beginning in no way means a supreme being was responsible

how about a sentient metaphysical presence with physical form similar to gravity responsible for the periodic table, the living elements that are the initial building blocks for physiological life where adaptable - and did not have a baby called jesus.

but delineates between good and evil, is the Almighty and presides over the Everlasting.


bbt is cyclical, nothing and beginning are incompatible.

 

[edthecynic]

God is just like us...

Because it was created by us in our image!

 

[edthecynic]

The logic of the first cause

Except the "first cause" IS illogical and contradicts its own premise, everything must have a cause, but the first cause has no cause.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The logic of the first cause

Except the "first cause" IS illogical and contradicts its own premise, everything must have a cause, but the first cause has no cause.

Of course it does....magic!

 

[Skull Pilot]

Prove it

The bible is book written by men edited by men distributed by men.

Yes, Moses was a man, but the Bible states that God handed it down to him. Moses backs this up.

Absolute proof isn't there. God said as much since he is testing us just like he tested Adam and Eve. One has to take the leap of faith. And I've said it countless times that John 3:16 is a good starting place to believe. Then God reveals himself and enters your life and worldview.

The bible cannot state anything the person writing it is the one making statements

And unlike you I tend to need proof.

You mean like space and time had a beginning? Or that man came from dust?

Consider them proven.

Just because something had a beginning in no way means a supreme being was responsible

I can say the earth's existence is proven simply because it exists now and I happen to be living here

The logic of the first cause and examination of the evidence of his creation does that.

There is no logic when proof is not required to believe

 

[Skull Pilot]

Just because something had a beginning in no way means a supreme being was responsible

how about a sentient metaphysical presence with physical form similar to gravity responsible for the periodic table, the living elements that are the initial building blocks for physiological life where adaptable - and did not have a baby called jesus.

but delineates between good and evil, is the Almighty and presides over the Everlasting.


bbt is cyclical, nothing and beginning are incompatible.

Sentient metaphysical presence with physical form AKA supreme being

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There is no logic when proof is not required to believe

Correct. That's why I will never understand this dog and pony show. For one, it is absurd to choose something to believe based on no evidence, and then furiously search for things to present as "evidence" for why you arrived at the belief without evidence.

Second, these religious people believe what they believe "because, Bible", and for literally no other reason. Instead of embarrassing themselves with false statements and specious reasoning, they should just say "because, Bible" and move on. If their faith is as strong as they claim, then why do they have no appetite for this? Either their faith is a bit of a ruse, or they know how silly they sound in serious company to declare "because, Bible" as a reason to declare something absolutely true. Or maybe it is a bit of both.

 

[james bond]

No, Genesis was written between 1440 and 1400 B.C. in-between the time Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt and his death. The Bible is witness to Mosaic authorship. What you state is wrong.

Prove it

The bible is book written by men edited by men distributed by men.

Yes, Moses was a man, but the Bible states that God handed it down to him. Moses backs this up.

Absolute proof isn't there. God said as much since he is testing us just like he tested Adam and Eve. One has to take the leap of faith. And I've said it countless times that John 3:16 is a good starting place to believe. Then God reveals himself and enters your life and worldview.

The bible cannot state anything the person writing it is the one making statements

And unlike you I tend to need proof.

Tsk. You weren't paying attention regarding both of your statements.

Absolute proof isn't there, and even if there were, you wouldn't believe it such as the Resurrection. The Bible states people believed in Jesus performing miracles, but soon forgot since it didn't apply to their lives. What the Bible states how people will know the truth is eternal pain and suffering in the afterlife.

Also, the best atheist argument I heard was that even if hundreds of thousands of people witness a miracle, there would still be hundreds of thousands who didn't. Every atheist has to be convinced. Thus, eternal pain and suffering seems very convincing. I forgot. Why am I here again? ARRRRGGGGHHHH!!! I remember. Very effective.

There is no afterlife.

And if god s all powerful he can simultaneously show everyone in the entire universe that he exists.

It makes no sense for a supreme being to whisper in the ear of one guy

>>There is no afterlife.<<

At least you're consistent. You continue to use assertions as argument. You should look up the word. Ho hum.

Otherwise, what evidence do you have there isn't? I have the Bible and personal anecdotes of people who clinically died, but came back to life to tell their stories.

I also have logical arguments such as the problem of evil.

Further evidence is more philosophical such as why is life so short and why a person can't take their success anywhere? Why do people believe in karma? Where does my sense of justice come from?

The way I look at is both the content and how the Bible was written. It is also the all-time best selling non-fiction book in the world. No other book compares to it, so it has content for everybody and follows what it says about John 3:16, Genesis and the afterlife. It is solid evidence that it's not a regular book that gets on the best selling list, and also backs up what God said about people knowing Christianity.

 

[james bond]

God is just like us...

Because it was created by us in our image!

Ha ha. You got it bassackwards.

Group lol.

 

[james bond]

There is no logic when proof is not required to believe

Actually, there is no logic when proof is not required to not believe, either. It's a matter of worldview and we all have that.

 

[ding]

The logic of the first cause

Except the "first cause" IS illogical and contradicts its own premise, everything must have a cause, but the first cause has no cause.

Wrong. The only solution to the first cause CONUNDRUM is something which is eternal and unchanging. The conundrum without a solution is illogical.

 

[ding]

Yes, Moses was a man, but the Bible states that God handed it down to him. Moses backs this up.

Absolute proof isn't there. God said as much since he is testing us just like he tested Adam and Eve. One has to take the leap of faith. And I've said it countless times that John 3:16 is a good starting place to believe. Then God reveals himself and enters your life and worldview.

The bible cannot state anything the person writing it is the one making statements

And unlike you I tend to need proof.

You mean like space and time had a beginning? Or that man came from dust?

Consider them proven.

Just because something had a beginning in no way means a supreme being was responsible

I can say the earth's existence is proven simply because it exists now and I happen to be living here

The logic of the first cause and examination of the evidence of his creation does that.

There is no logic when proof is not required to believe

The only tools we have for anything outside of time and space are logical thought exercises.

Logically, it is not possible for matter and energy to be eternal without reaching thermal equilibrium. So it is not possible for there to be infinite causes because that would have required matter and energy to be eternal. So logically, there MUST be something else. And logically that something else must not be made of matter and energy.

 

[ding]

There is no logic when proof is not required to believe

Correct. That's why I will never understand this dog and pony show. For one, it is absurd to choose something to believe based on no evidence, and then furiously search for things to present as "evidence" for why you arrived at the belief without evidence.

Second, these religious people believe what they believe "because, Bible", and for literally no other reason. Instead of embarrassing themselves with false statements and specious reasoning, they should just say "because, Bible" and move on. If their faith is as strong as they claim, then why do they have no appetite for this? Either their faith is a bit of a ruse, or they know how silly they sound in serious company to declare "because, Bible" as a reason to declare something absolutely true. Or maybe it is a bit of both.

There's tons of evidence of what was created. We can learn a lot from that. Especially from ourselves.

But let me flip this around on you. Since you believe there is no evidence then you have no evidence for your belief. I don't have that problem. I do believe there is evidence for my beliefs. Tons of it.

 

[ding]

Just because something had a beginning in no way means a supreme being was responsible

how about a sentient metaphysical presence with physical form similar to gravity responsible for the periodic table, the living elements that are the initial building blocks for physiological life where adaptable - and did not have a baby called jesus.

but delineates between good and evil, is the Almighty and presides over the Everlasting.


bbt is cyclical, nothing and beginning are incompatible.

Sentient metaphysical presence with physical form AKA supreme being

No. More like rather than intelligence being a late outgrowth from the evolution of space and time, it has always existed as the source or matrix of physical stuff such that it created a universe where beings that know and create would eventually arise.

Good Lord, don't you realize that you are a part of a complex adaptive system? What are you ignorant?

 

[ding]

The logic of the first cause

Except the "first cause" IS illogical and contradicts its own premise, everything must have a cause, but the first cause has no cause.

Of course it does....magic!

No. Not magic. Natural. In fact the reason you don't believe in a higher power than man is because that higher power doesn't do magic for you.

 

[DOTR]

I think it likely that abiogenesis occurred more than once in the universe. Thats about it for the story.

Well...no. You actually cling to a notion that flies in the face of all evidence because without it your religious world would collapse. Or at least be open to question which is the same as collapse to you.