White America's Greatest Delusion: "They Do Not Know It and They Do Not Want to Know It"

[Correll]

YOu are not being asked to pay money to Israel because you are being held responsible for Nazi crimes.

I know what I'm not held responsible for. I'm saying I wasnt a Nazi yet my funds go to prop up Israel. I've said that 3 times and everytime you reply its talking about something I didnt say

You are asking that Whites in America today be held responsible for the crime of slavery that was committed by other people over a century ago.

Which is unacceptable.

No, its just you think it is and proclaim it to be so.

I did not claim that there was NEVER any "holding blacks down". It just has not been the policy or intent of White American for 50 years.

Intent? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. So I dont care what the intent is or was. Someone cannot rise from an already lofty postition so what are they rising from? And should I be super happy because whites decided to throw down a oily rope?

You are the one claiming that IT IS the policy now, and has been forever.

It was the policy and that policy held by generations. Convincing you or you believing it is of no concern. Its obvious you think everything is going swell

YOu are not being asked to pay money to Israel because you are being held responsible for Nazi crimes.

I know what I'm not held responsible for. I'm saying I wasnt a Nazi yet my funds go to prop up Israel. I've said that 3 times and everytime you reply its talking about something I didnt say

You are asking that Whites in America today be held responsible for the crime of slavery that was committed by other people over a century ago.

Which is unacceptable.

No, its just you think it is and proclaim it to be so.

I did not claim that there was NEVER any "holding blacks down". It just has not been the policy or intent of White American for 50 years.

Intent? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. So I dont care what the intent is or was. Someone cannot rise from an already lofty postition so what are they rising from? And should I be super happy because whites decided to throw down a oily rope?

You are the one claiming that IT IS the policy now, and has been forever.

It was the policy and that policy held by generations. Convincing you or you believing it is of no concern. Its obvious you think everything is going swell

Your point about Israel and not being a nazi has nothing to do with the topic.

YOur op does hold modern American responsible for "unforgivable crimes" against blacks.

Your op ignores the intent AND the policies of the last 50 years.

You ignore the fact that those efforts have fallen short and there is still work to be done.

No, I OBSERVE THAT those efforts overreached into reverse discrimination, and think that the "work" needs to be wrapped up as a bad job.

Ferguson is reverse discrimination?

AA, and the constant fear of "discrimination" lawsuits that lead to reverse discrimination is reverse discrimination.

As demonstrated in the New Haven Firefighter case.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I know what I'm not held responsible for. I'm saying I wasnt a Nazi yet my funds go to prop up Israel. I've said that 3 times and everytime you reply its talking about something I didnt say

No, its just you think it is and proclaim it to be so.


Intent? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. So I dont care what the intent is or was. Someone cannot rise from an already lofty postition so what are they rising from? And should I be super happy because whites decided to throw down a oily rope?

It was the policy and that policy held by generations. Convincing you or you believing it is of no concern. Its obvious you think everything is going swell

I know what I'm not held responsible for. I'm saying I wasnt a Nazi yet my funds go to prop up Israel. I've said that 3 times and everytime you reply its talking about something I didnt say

No, its just you think it is and proclaim it to be so.


Intent? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. So I dont care what the intent is or was. Someone cannot rise from an already lofty postition so what are they rising from? And should I be super happy because whites decided to throw down a oily rope?

It was the policy and that policy held by generations. Convincing you or you believing it is of no concern. Its obvious you think everything is going swell

Your point about Israel and not being a nazi has nothing to do with the topic.

YOur op does hold modern American responsible for "unforgivable crimes" against blacks.

Your op ignores the intent AND the policies of the last 50 years.

Why are continually ignoring the posts from the Fergueson report showing police racism? Why did you ignore the post about lead paint testing in the 90's on minorities?

I mean, as long as you ignore real shit, thats the only way you can say its all been peaches and cream for 50 years.

Why are you continually ignoring the massive efforts and sacrifices on White America over the last 50 years?

I asked you first. Lets take turns

Well, actually you didn't but sure.

Because A. Eric Holder's Justice Dept. has no credibility with me, and B. one police department does not outweigh the rest of the nation working for 50 years.

Now, your turn.

There it is. Finally you said what we knew all along. You don't accept the DoJ report at all.
Good for you. Unfortunately for your argument, that doesn't change the facts of the report and.........
"They Do Not Know It and They Do Not Want to Know It"

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

I don't have much sympathy for scofflaws, but in fairness to the leftist side of the argument here, a good many laws (particularly drug laws) place inordinately severe penalties on crimes committed by blacks.

Having said that, the OP still hasn't said what he wants white Americans to do (besides "admit blacks aren't delusional") to remedy the situation.

Feel guilty?

Throw money at the problem?

Be less critical when looters and arsonists burn down the businesses of their friends and neighbours to protest injustice?

Once you admit that blacks are delusional then you start to actually listen. When you listen you actually realize there is a problem. Just like you did with the first sentence there.

The main problem I believe today is whites who dont care / dont believe. You have to think that if someone doesnt believe that someone is being discriminated against what do they do? They ACTIVELY dont believe which results in actions.

Its simple

The problem is that you and yours are not interested in, and will do whatever you can to marginalize any discussion that does NOT include the premise that it is all the fault of Whites and their "unforgivable crimes".

Sorry, but when you discuss a crime its customary to include why, when and how. You seem to not like the discussion simply because whites enslaved blacks and that is part of the why, when and how.

Query, if White America's crimes are Unforgivable, then just what is the end game for diversity and racial harmony?

Tell me do you think America should be forgiven for slavery? Why? They'll never be racial harmony ever, because assholes will always exist. That doesnt mean just throw your hands up and say fuck it

How can we have racial harmony in a diverse society when one of your core beliefs is that White American cannot be forgiven?

They can be forgiven but typically someone isnt forgiven unless they acknowledge a wrong has been done.

For example:

Guy1: Did you steal my money?
Guy2: Yeah, so what?
Guy1: I forgive you!

Yeah, that doesnt happen

So who, then, should acknowledge that they've done wrong? In your example, it was the guy who stole the money, and that makes sense.

I'm half white, but I won't give anyone half an apology for slavery. Friends of mine who are all white? I don't believe a single one should have to apologize, either. You see, none of us ever owned slaves, thus none of us are responsible.

Also, I was under the impression that literally every public school and virtually every significant cultural voice in this country acknowledge that slavery happened and was terrible. What else you want? Repentant self mutilation for crimes perpetrated before we were born.

And should white America be forgiven for slavery? Absolutely not. Not a single white American today is responsible for historic slavery, so "forgiveness" would involve a false accusation.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Ferguson my ass.

America has been focused on HELPING blacks for 50 years.

For the OP to state otherwise is a slap in the face of every white American.

True, but Ferguson and Baltimore will go a LONG way toward changing that.

CC has bought in the fiction that he will somehow "win" in a race war.

You're the first and only person to bring up a race war

 

[ClosedCaption]

[


You are a hard headed fool.
What's this? White America bending over backwards?
Department of Justice report on the Ferguson Mo. Police Department - Washington Post

I've posted this at least a half a dozen times and no one will address it.
"They Do Not Know It and They Do Not Want to Know It"

The problem is that Eric Holders criminal conspiracy of a DOJ lacks anything close to credibility. Was Ferguson PD focused on revenue? Yep, every police force in the USA is. Did they engage in criminal acts to generate revenue? Every police force in the USA does. Was race the motivating factor? Nope, money was - and is.

It just so happen that the majority of those fined, ticketed etc are black. You want everyone to forget that part

 

[ClosedCaption]

Why are continually ignoring the posts from the Fergueson report showing police racism? Why did you ignore the post about lead paint testing in the 90's on minorities?

I mean, as long as you ignore real shit, thats the only way you can say its all been peaches and cream for 50 years.

Why are you continually ignoring the massive efforts and sacrifices on White America over the last 50 years?

I asked you first. Lets take turns

Well, actually you didn't but sure.

Because A. Eric Holder's Justice Dept. has no credibility with me, and B. one police department does not outweigh the rest of the nation working for 50 years.

Now, your turn.

Because the effort put forth is not good enough to counter the effort to fuck black people in the ass.

If you put a knife 6 inches in my back and pull it out 3 inches to the knife holder thats progress. To the victim its still a knife in his back.

Dont even use Holders Justice Dept. How about the studies and polls that came out in the last 50 years that show discrimination? All those are wrong too? Holder?

I mean basically you'd have to ignore every case of racism or believe that all of them are isolated in order to believe there is NOT a systematic racism at play. Luckily tho, facts dont change because of what you believe

I'm sorry that you were disappointed in the efforts of the last 50 years.

I have some worse news for you.

You are not going to get more effort.

If anything, whites are getting sick and tired of being the fall guy.

Well, whites shouldn't have done it in the first place but they did, and being the fall guy pales in comparison to the acts committed.

Sorry, not sorry.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Yall remember back in the '90's when the perception was that under-policing was a big part of rampant criminality in the ghetto?

How do you all reconcile that with the new claim that it's not rampant criminality, just the illusion of it as created by high incarceration rates from over policing?

 

[skookerasbil]

White America's Greatest Delusion: "They Do Not Know It and They Do Not Want to Know It"
It is the innocence which constitutes the crime.
By Tim Wise / AlterNet
May 6, 2015
Print
498 COMMENTS

Though perhaps overused, there are few statements that so thoroughly burrow to the heart of the nation's racial condition as the following, written fifty-three years ago by James Baldwin:

...this is the crime of which I accuse my country and my countrymen and for which neither I nor time nor history will ever forgive them, that they have destroyed and are destroying hundreds of thousands of lives and do not know it and do not want to know it...but it is not permissible that the authors of devastation should also be innocent. It is the innocence which constitutes the crime

Indeed, and in the wake of the Baltimore uprising that began last week, they are words worth remembering.

It is bad enough that much of white America sees fit to lecture black people about the proper response to police brutality, economic devastation and perpetual marginality, having ourselves rarely been the targets of any of these. It is bad enough that we deign to instruct black people whose lives we have not lived, whose terrors we have not faced, and whose gauntlets we have not run, about violence; this, even as we enjoy the national bounty over which we currently claim possession solely as a result of violence. I beg to remind you, George Washington was not a practitioner of passive resistance. Neither the early colonists nor the nation's founders fit within the Gandhian tradition. There were no sit-ins at King George's palace, no horseback freedom rides to affect change. There were just guns, lots and lots of guns.

We are here because of blood, and mostly that of others; here because of our insatiable and rapacious desire to take by force the land and labor of those others. We are the last people on Earth with a right to ruminate upon the superior morality of peaceful protest. We have never believed in it and rarely practiced it. Rather, we have always taken what we desire, and when denied it we have turned to means utterly genocidal to make it so.

Which is why it always strikes me as precious the way so many white Americans insist (as if preening for a morality contest of some sorts) that "we don't burn down our own neighborhoods when we get angry." This, in supposed contrast to black and brown folks who engage in such presumptively self-destructive irrationality as this. On the one hand, it simply isn't true. We do burn our own communities, we do riot, and for far less valid reasons than any for which persons of color have ever hoisted a brick, a rock, or a bottle.We do so when our teams lose the big game or win the big game; or because of something called Pumpkin Festival; or because veggie burritos cost $10 at Woodstock '99 and there weren't enough Porta-Potties by the time of the Limp Bizkit set; or because folks couldn't get enough beer at the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake; or because surfers (natch); or St. Patty's Day in Albany; or because Penn State fired Joe Paterno; or because it's a Sunday afternoon in Ames, Iowa; and we do it over and over and over again. Far from mere amateur hooliganism, our riots are indeed violent affairs that have been known to endanger the safety and lives of police, as with the infamous 1998 riot at Washington State University. To wit:

The crowd then attacked the officers from all sides for two hours with rocks, beer bottles, signposts, chairs, and pieces of concrete, allegedly cheering whenever an officer was struck and injured. Twenty-three officers were injured, some suffering concussions and broken bones.


Seventeen years later, one still waits for the avalanche of conservative ruminations regarding the pathologies of whites in Pullman, whose disrespect for authority suggests a larger culture of dysfunction, no doubt taught to them by their rural, corn-fed families and symbolized by the easily recognizable gang attire of Carhartt work coats and backwards baseball caps.

Why are you continually ignoring the massive efforts and sacrifices on White America over the last 50 years?

I asked you first. Lets take turns

Well, actually you didn't but sure.

Because A. Eric Holder's Justice Dept. has no credibility with me, and B. one police department does not outweigh the rest of the nation working for 50 years.

Now, your turn.

Because the effort put forth is not good enough to counter the effort to fuck black people in the ass.

If you put a knife 6 inches in my back and pull it out 3 inches to the knife holder thats progress. To the victim its still a knife in his back.

Dont even use Holders Justice Dept. How about the studies and polls that came out in the last 50 years that show discrimination? All those are wrong too? Holder?

I mean basically you'd have to ignore every case of racism or believe that all of them are isolated in order to believe there is NOT a systematic racism at play. Luckily tho, facts dont change because of what you believe

I'm sorry that you were disappointed in the efforts of the last 50 years.

I have some worse news for you.

You are not going to get more effort.

If anything, whites are getting sick and tired of being the fall guy.

Well, whites shouldn't have done it in the first place but they did, and being the fall guy pales in comparison to the acts committed.

Sorry, not sorry.

nobody cares s0n..........and AlterNet staff and readers are deep into the white guilt BS.


Then theres real life America >> Stuff Black People Don t Like - SBPDL

 

[skookerasbil]

Thursday, May 7, 2015
"A Pile of Trash": Blacks in Ferguson Outraged the Michael Brown Memorial in the Middle of Canfield Drive Might be Moved...

Stuff Black People Don t Like - SBPDL A Pile of Trash Blacks in Ferguson Outraged the Michael Brown Memorial in the Middle of Canfield Drive Might be Moved...





Holy crap..........that memorial to Mike Brown is still in the middle of the street!!!


wtf???!!!

 

[Correll]

Why are you continually ignoring the massive efforts and sacrifices on White America over the last 50 years?

I asked you first. Lets take turns

Well, actually you didn't but sure.

Because A. Eric Holder's Justice Dept. has no credibility with me, and B. one police department does not outweigh the rest of the nation working for 50 years.

Now, your turn.

Because the effort put forth is not good enough to counter the effort to fuck black people in the ass.

If you put a knife 6 inches in my back and pull it out 3 inches to the knife holder thats progress. To the victim its still a knife in his back.

Dont even use Holders Justice Dept. How about the studies and polls that came out in the last 50 years that show discrimination? All those are wrong too? Holder?

I mean basically you'd have to ignore every case of racism or believe that all of them are isolated in order to believe there is NOT a systematic racism at play. Luckily tho, facts dont change because of what you believe

I'm sorry that you were disappointed in the efforts of the last 50 years.

I have some worse news for you.

You are not going to get more effort.

If anything, whites are getting sick and tired of being the fall guy.

Well, whites shouldn't have done it in the first place but they did, and being the fall guy pales in comparison to the acts committed.

Sorry, not sorry.

Whites shouldn't have done what?

Spent the last 50 years trying to improve the situation of blacks?

I'm glad you admit that you are trying to make living Whites the fall guy for sins committed long ago.

I'm done with being the fall guy. And more and more whites are too.

DOes it concern you that the problems that are supposedly the result of Whites keeping blacks down, do not get better as those policies recede further and further into the mists of history?

Almost as though the cause is something else...

Do you have any desire to do something about the real problems that are facing Black America and their real causes?

Or are all those lives less important to you than blaming whitey?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Yall remember back in the '90's when the perception was that under-policing was a big part of rampant criminality in the ghetto?

How do you all reconcile that with the new claim that it's not rampant criminality, just the illusion of it as created by high incarceration rates from over policing?

By simply recognizing that it went too far.

 

[Correll]

[


You are a hard headed fool.
What's this? White America bending over backwards?
Department of Justice report on the Ferguson Mo. Police Department - Washington Post

I've posted this at least a half a dozen times and no one will address it.
"They Do Not Know It and They Do Not Want to Know It"

The problem is that Eric Holders criminal conspiracy of a DOJ lacks anything close to credibility. Was Ferguson PD focused on revenue? Yep, every police force in the USA is. Did they engage in criminal acts to generate revenue? Every police force in the USA does. Was race the motivating factor? Nope, money was - and is.

It just so happen that the majority of those fined, ticketed etc are black. You want everyone to forget that part

The majority of those tickets were black? In a town where the majority of the population was white? Err, I mean black?

HOw strange...

That is certainly a crime that out weights 5 decades of Affirmative Action and social spending and quotas and reverse discrimination, and education and outreach and ect. ect. ect.

 

[Correll]

Yall remember back in the '90's when the perception was that under-policing was a big part of rampant criminality in the ghetto?

How do you all reconcile that with the new claim that it's not rampant criminality, just the illusion of it as created by high incarceration rates from over policing?

Easy. You just start with the conclusion that blacks are the innocent victims of white racism and then rationalize the "reasons" why.

Anyone calls you on it, you call them racist.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

[


You are a hard headed fool.
What's this? White America bending over backwards?
Department of Justice report on the Ferguson Mo. Police Department - Washington Post

I've posted this at least a half a dozen times and no one will address it.
"They Do Not Know It and They Do Not Want to Know It"

The problem is that Eric Holders criminal conspiracy of a DOJ lacks anything close to credibility. Was Ferguson PD focused on revenue? Yep, every police force in the USA is. Did they engage in criminal acts to generate revenue? Every police force in the USA does. Was race the motivating factor? Nope, money was - and is.

It just so happen that the majority of those fined, ticketed etc are black. You want everyone to forget that part

The majority of those tickets were black? In a town where the majority of the population was white? Err, I mean black?

HOw strange...

That is certainly a crime that out weights 5 decades of Affirmative Action and social spending and quotas and reverse discrimination, and education and outreach and ect. ect. ect.

Read the report rather than continue to speak to something you obviously don't understand. All of the demographic data is explained.
BTW, to keep asserting the idea that white folks have been harmed by AA in any way comperable to blacks is insane.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Yall remember back in the '90's when the perception was that under-policing was a big part of rampant criminality in the ghetto?

How do you all reconcile that with the new claim that it's not rampant criminality, just the illusion of it as created by high incarceration rates from over policing?

By simply recognizing that it went too far.

You're missing my point, which is kinda impressive.

If there was rampant criminality when there was under policing, how can you say with such self assurance that over policing just makes it -look- like there's rampant criminality?

I'll agree that the war on drugs has been massively destructive, but anyone who puts this off purely as the fault of white policing policies without examining how culture affects this situation is either dense or disingenuous.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Oh, the Victimhood !!!!!!

Lmfao

 

[Katzndogz]

Write black cities off. Shrug shoulders and go for a coffee.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Yall remember back in the '90's when the perception was that under-policing was a big part of rampant criminality in the ghetto?

How do you all reconcile that with the new claim that it's not rampant criminality, just the illusion of it as created by high incarceration rates from over policing?

By simply recognizing that it went too far.

You're missing my point, which is kinda impressive.

If there was rampant criminality when there was under policing, how can you say with such self assurance that over policing just makes it -look- like there's rampant criminality?

I'll agree that the war on drugs has been massively destructive, but anyone who puts this off purely as the fault of white policing policies without examining how culture affects this situation is either dense or disingenuous.

Firstly,is crime rampant? Is crime today AS rampant as the 90's?
No

Secondly, I never asserted that over policing accounted for the entirety of black crime rates.You did(a bit disingenuous huh) If you bothered to look at the Ferguson report and national crime statistics you will find that while whites and blacks commit certain crimes at nearly the same rate, blacks are arrested and convicted at higher levels. Certainly you can see how that might affect statistics by race if officers are spending more time pursuing blacks.

 

[Correll]

[


You are a hard headed fool.
What's this? White America bending over backwards?
Department of Justice report on the Ferguson Mo. Police Department - Washington Post

I've posted this at least a half a dozen times and no one will address it.
"They Do Not Know It and They Do Not Want to Know It"

The problem is that Eric Holders criminal conspiracy of a DOJ lacks anything close to credibility. Was Ferguson PD focused on revenue? Yep, every police force in the USA is. Did they engage in criminal acts to generate revenue? Every police force in the USA does. Was race the motivating factor? Nope, money was - and is.

It just so happen that the majority of those fined, ticketed etc are black. You want everyone to forget that part

The majority of those tickets were black? In a town where the majority of the population was white? Err, I mean black?

HOw strange...

That is certainly a crime that out weights 5 decades of Affirmative Action and social spending and quotas and reverse discrimination, and education and outreach and ect. ect. ect.

Read the report rather than continue to speak to something you obviously don't understand. All of the demographic data is explained.
BTW, to keep asserting the idea that white folks have been harmed by AA in any way comperable to blacks is insane.

YOur assumption that the reason I don't agree with you, is because I don't understand the data, is nothing but a classic closed mind. You cannot imagine that a reasonable person would reasonable disagree with you.


I understand the data fine.

YOu are the one that posted that the "majority of those ticketed were black", with no reference to the demographics of the city being majority black OR of the age differences of the two groups.

And anyone who thinks that you can discriminate in favor of blacks without discriminating against whites is the insane one.

We whites have been sacrificing for 50 years to try to help the blacks, and this is the thanks we get?

MOre and more, we are done.

 

[Correll]

Yall remember back in the '90's when the perception was that under-policing was a big part of rampant criminality in the ghetto?

How do you all reconcile that with the new claim that it's not rampant criminality, just the illusion of it as created by high incarceration rates from over policing?

By simply recognizing that it went too far.

You're missing my point, which is kinda impressive.

If there was rampant criminality when there was under policing, how can you say with such self assurance that over policing just makes it -look- like there's rampant criminality?

I'll agree that the war on drugs has been massively destructive, but anyone who puts this off purely as the fault of white policing policies without examining how culture affects this situation is either dense or disingenuous.

Or both.