Debate Now White Privilege and an Institution of Racism

[LoneLaugher]

But if we treat everyone the same than we can no longer use the issue of race to divide people.


(Oops...did I say that out loud....)

You did. And it's still bullshit.

Nope. It is obvious many have engaged in demagoguery to divide us....both for votes as well as money and power (e.g. Al Sharpton).

Both sides have used racial demagoguery in the past, but it is now predominately the calling card of some from the left, and it is incredibly divisive.

And racial demagoguery is effective, particularly politically. The Democrat Party has now effectively become a party for non-whites. The last election cycle 63% of white American voted against Democrat candidates. Those numbers are dropping rapidly.

I think those that divide us....people like Sharpton....are incredibly evil. I think the us versus them ideology is evil. I think pushing victimization is evil. If racism needs to be called out, then racial demagoguery needs to be called out just as strongly.

Don't you agree?

Be serious.

He was obviously being serious.

Answer the question.

Who are you?

 

[Foxfyre]

The "primary operative problem" or "chief complaint" from some on the left is having to cope with the exogenous cognitive dissonance of inferior lines of reasoning while trying to establish any confidence to any claim of any superiority or any supremeness.

I'm not real sure what you said here Daniel, and it very well may be right, but the thread rules require us all to stay on topic and avoid partisan and ideological references.

 

[Correll]

But if we treat everyone the same than we can no longer use the issue of race to divide people.


(Oops...did I say that out loud....)

You did. And it's still bullshit.

Nope. It is obvious many have engaged in demagoguery to divide us....both for votes as well as money and power (e.g. Al Sharpton).

Both sides have used racial demagoguery in the past, but it is now predominately the calling card of some from the left, and it is incredibly divisive.

And racial demagoguery is effective, particularly politically. The Democrat Party has now effectively become a party for non-whites. The last election cycle 63% of white American voted against Democrat candidates. Those numbers are dropping rapidly.

I think those that divide us....people like Sharpton....are incredibly evil. I think the us versus them ideology is evil. I think pushing victimization is evil. If racism needs to be called out, then racial demagoguery needs to be called out just as strongly.

Don't you agree?

Be serious.

He was obviously being serious.

Answer the question.

Who are you?

An inquiring mind who wants to know.



Why did you not give a serious answer?

 

[Foxfyre]

So why not do what McWhorter seems to be suggesting. . . what Morgan Freeman was suggesting in that video. . . and I what I am suggesting in this discussion? Let's remove the fear by stop forcing people to focus on race. Let's stop telling black kids that they're screwed because white America screwed them and let's stop telling white people living now that they are responsible for black America being screwed.

Let's start treating everybody exactly the same--same language, same expectations, same choices--so that everybody can get used to thinking of skin color as no more important than hair color or eye color.

And let's see those 'white privilege' classes people are being required to take as the ignorant and counter productive things that they are.

You don't get it. Take some responsibility.

Ad hominem and illegal per Rule #1 for the thread. Please address the post and rebut it.

You don't get that we need to proactively bring people together. People need to interact on a regular basis.....really interact.....with those of other races. That means going to the same schools, living in the same neighborhoods and playing in the same circles.

Until you suggest ways for that to happen.....you are just sweeping it all under the rug. We've been trying to sweep for several generations.

Suddenly exclaiming "We are all the same!" is not doing shit. It's avoiding reality.

I have not exclaimed that "we are all the same." I don't think anybody else has said that either. Please try to read more carefully.

And how is pushing for us to do away with political correctness and all the focus on our differences and start treating everybody the same so that we do not divide ourselves along racial lines not being proactive?

McWhorter's essay illustrates how destructive and counter productive it is when we pretend we are addressing racism by emphasizing that we are different races. His point is that this actually perpetuates racism. How is he wrong?

Political correctness is a meme. I've never been politically correct in my life. You are in opposition to me here and you are claiming that your opposition is politically correct. I challenge you to point out examples of me being politically correct. Find one.

As I said earlier. WE ARE NOT THERE YET. We still need to bring MILLIONS of Americans to the realization that we are all equal IN SPITE OF OUR DIFFERENCES.

Duh!

I have not claimed that anything I have said here is politically correct. And everything you have posted so far is the politically correct position whether you recognize it as that or not. In order to have an objective discussion, it is not at all necessary for members to agree with each other's posted opinions, but it is necessary not to dishonestly misrepresent them.

And just as a reminder the question asked in the OP is:

Does a focus on 'white privilege' and racism as McWhorter describes it help or hurt black people? Please explain your 'yes' or 'no' answer or any position you take between 'yes' or 'no'.​

McWhorter's entire essay suggests that keeping focus on our racial differences serves to reinforce racism rather than eliminating it. I believe he was writing to educate people on what needs to happen to make destructive racism go away. And that is what this entire thread and discussion is about. It is suggesting a proactive approach to deal with the issue.

Insisting that everybody else's opinions on that are crap and bullshit while misrepresenting my or other's position and/or not making any effort to rebut us or McWhorter is not useful nor is it in the spirit of the intent of the thread.

 

[danielpalos]

The "primary operative problem" or "chief complaint" from some on the left is having to cope with the exogenous cognitive dissonance of inferior lines of reasoning while trying to establish any confidence to any claim of any superiority or any supremeness.

I'm not real sure what you said here Daniel, and it very well may be right, but the thread rules require us all to stay on topic and avoid partisan and ideological references.

Hispanics have standing, sometimes.

 

[Foxfyre]

The "primary operative problem" or "chief complaint" from some on the left is having to cope with the exogenous cognitive dissonance of inferior lines of reasoning while trying to establish any confidence to any claim of any superiority or any supremeness.

I'm not real sure what you said here Daniel, and it very well may be right, but the thread rules require us all to stay on topic and avoid partisan and ideological references.

Hispanics have standing, sometimes.

And that is a subject for a different thread.

 

[danielpalos]

It sometimes has to do with, whiter privilege. I sometimes have more privilege in the winter than in the summer.

 

[BlackSand]

As I said earlier. WE ARE NOT THERE YET. We still need to bring MILLIONS of Americans to the realization that we are all equal IN SPITE OF OUR DIFFERENCES.

Duh!

Uh ... No one is actually equal to anyone else.
Even at the metaphysical level we are not equal to ourselves from one fraction of a second to the next.

So you are only trying to get people to realize a falsehood.

.

 

[LoneLaugher]

You don't get it. Take some responsibility.

Ad hominem and illegal per Rule #1 for the thread. Please address the post and rebut it.

You don't get that we need to proactively bring people together. People need to interact on a regular basis.....really interact.....with those of other races. That means going to the same schools, living in the same neighborhoods and playing in the same circles.

Until you suggest ways for that to happen.....you are just sweeping it all under the rug. We've been trying to sweep for several generations.

Suddenly exclaiming "We are all the same!" is not doing shit. It's avoiding reality.

I have not exclaimed that "we are all the same." I don't think anybody else has said that either. Please try to read more carefully.

And how is pushing for us to do away with political correctness and all the focus on our differences and start treating everybody the same so that we do not divide ourselves along racial lines not being proactive?

McWhorter's essay illustrates how destructive and counter productive it is when we pretend we are addressing racism by emphasizing that we are different races. His point is that this actually perpetuates racism. How is he wrong?

Political correctness is a meme. I've never been politically correct in my life. You are in opposition to me here and you are claiming that your opposition is politically correct. I challenge you to point out examples of me being politically correct. Find one.

As I said earlier. WE ARE NOT THERE YET. We still need to bring MILLIONS of Americans to the realization that we are all equal IN SPITE OF OUR DIFFERENCES.

Duh!

I have not claimed that anything I have said here is politically correct. And everything you have posted so far is the politically correct position whether you recognize it as that or not. In order to have an objective discussion, it is not at all necessary for members to agree with each other's posted opinions, but it is necessary not to dishonestly misrepresent them.

And just as a reminder the question asked in the OP is:

Does a focus on 'white privilege' and racism as McWhorter describes it help or hurt black people? Please explain your 'yes' or 'no' answer or any position you take between 'yes' or 'no'.​

McWhorter's entire essay suggests that keeping focus on our racial differences serves to reinforce racism rather than eliminating it. I believe he was writing to educate people on what needs to happen to make destructive racism go away. And that is what this entire thread and discussion is about. It is suggesting a proactive approach to deal with the issue.

Insisting that everybody else's opinions on that are crap and bullshit while misrepresenting my or other's position and/or not making any effort to rebut us or McWhorter is not useful nor is it in the spirit of the intent of the thread.

Show my politically correct statements. Explain to me how my position is politically correct.,

 

[LoneLaugher]

As I said earlier. WE ARE NOT THERE YET. We still need to bring MILLIONS of Americans to the realization that we are all equal IN SPITE OF OUR DIFFERENCES.

Duh!

Uh ... No one is actually equal to anyone else.
Even at the metaphysical level we are not equal to ourselves from one fraction of a second to the next.

So you are only trying to get people to realize a falsehood.

.

ppppppppfffffffttttttt

 

[danielpalos]

Dudes and Esquires, how else can any Person be full of fallacy and still be taken seriously, but for some sort of privilege.

 

[BlackSand]

ppppppppfffffffttttttt

That is the general response you get when people are trying to support an imaginary line of equality.
Fits right there alongside fairness and other imaginary feel good concepts that don't accept the realities and responsibilities of making the most of what you have.

It serves no positive purpose ... Just like McWhorter was commenting on.

.

 

[Foxfyre]

Ad hominem and illegal per Rule #1 for the thread. Please address the post and rebut it.

You don't get that we need to proactively bring people together. People need to interact on a regular basis.....really interact.....with those of other races. That means going to the same schools, living in the same neighborhoods and playing in the same circles.

Until you suggest ways for that to happen.....you are just sweeping it all under the rug. We've been trying to sweep for several generations.

Suddenly exclaiming "We are all the same!" is not doing shit. It's avoiding reality.

I have not exclaimed that "we are all the same." I don't think anybody else has said that either. Please try to read more carefully.

And how is pushing for us to do away with political correctness and all the focus on our differences and start treating everybody the same so that we do not divide ourselves along racial lines not being proactive?

McWhorter's essay illustrates how destructive and counter productive it is when we pretend we are addressing racism by emphasizing that we are different races. His point is that this actually perpetuates racism. How is he wrong?

Political correctness is a meme. I've never been politically correct in my life. You are in opposition to me here and you are claiming that your opposition is politically correct. I challenge you to point out examples of me being politically correct. Find one.

As I said earlier. WE ARE NOT THERE YET. We still need to bring MILLIONS of Americans to the realization that we are all equal IN SPITE OF OUR DIFFERENCES.

Duh!

I have not claimed that anything I have said here is politically correct. And everything you have posted so far is the politically correct position whether you recognize it as that or not. In order to have an objective discussion, it is not at all necessary for members to agree with each other's posted opinions, but it is necessary not to dishonestly misrepresent them.

And just as a reminder the question asked in the OP is:

Does a focus on 'white privilege' and racism as McWhorter describes it help or hurt black people? Please explain your 'yes' or 'no' answer or any position you take between 'yes' or 'no'.​

McWhorter's entire essay suggests that keeping focus on our racial differences serves to reinforce racism rather than eliminating it. I believe he was writing to educate people on what needs to happen to make destructive racism go away. And that is what this entire thread and discussion is about. It is suggesting a proactive approach to deal with the issue.

Insisting that everybody else's opinions on that are crap and bullshit while misrepresenting my or other's position and/or not making any effort to rebut us or McWhorter is not useful nor is it in the spirit of the intent of the thread.

Show my politically correct statements. Explain to me how my position is politically correct.,

I will refer you to all your posts in this thread for your politically correct statements. You are certainly as entitled to your point of view as anybody else, but the idea that asking questions about race is racist or that it is the white man's responsibility to fix the problem of racism or achieve equality is the politically correct position. Demanding equality or else the whole system is racist and/or unfair or whatever is the politically correct position.

 

[Flopper]

Segregation Now The Resegregation of America s Schools - ProPublica

Separate and unequal Racial segregation flourishes in US suburbs Al Jazeera America

What Does Segregation Look Like Today

Thanks for the links. Per the articles there is no allegation I can find of "legal segregation" (i.e. Jim Crows laws).

A key quote.

"He found that, despite a decline in racial segregation and improvements in incomes marked by the rise of the black middle class, blacks and Hispanics continue to live in the least desirable neighborhoods — even when they can afford better — and their children attend the lowest-performing schools."

It sounds like straight up racial preference on the part of minorities to live in close proximity to people of their own race. To whit: "blacks and Hispanics continue to live in the least desirable neighborhoods — even when they can afford better."

Should we deny minorities the right to live where they choose and among people they choose to interact with? How is their preference "legal segregation?"

Legal in the sense that it isn't illegal. Why are you trying to play with words? This nation is segregated. That is the primary reason there is still racial strife and why it is a benefit to be born white.

Until we are ACTUALLY integrated.......this issue will remain.

It isn't a desire to self segregate. It is a recognition that the barriers to integration are still too lofty.

When I was at college, all of the minorities CHOOSE to sit with each other in the dining halls.


I guess our college was segregated. Is it your contention the security guards should have broken up their friendships and dispersed them among the white students to force integration? Seriously?

Do you think the government should make it illegal for black people to associate with other black people, and the government should go into all the various China Towns and break them up? Really? Because those voluntary associations aren't "illegal," so that makes this segregation. . . . well.. . . legal?


Yeah, that's called voluntary association. Any poor black person that wants to can move into a white trailer park.

There's a good book that addresses this issue called, "Why Are All Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria"

"Walk into any racially mixed high school and you will see black youth seated together in the cafeteria. Of course, it's not just the black kids sitting together-the white, Latino, Asian Pacific, and, in some regions, American Indian youth are clustered in their own groups, too. The same phenomenon can be observed in college dining halls, faculty lounges, and corporate cafeterias. What is going on here? Is this self-segregation a problem we should try to fix, or a coping strategy we should support? How can we get past our reluctance to talk about racial issues to even discuss it? And what about all the other questions we and our children have about race? Beverly Daniel Tatum, a renowned authority on the psychology of racism, asserts that we do not know how to talk about our racial differences: Whites are afraid of using the wrong words and being perceived as "racist" while parents of color are afraid of exposing their children to painful racial realities too soon."

And the fact is if we can't have an honest discussion about racism without half of those discussing it accusing the other half of being racist because they aren't discussing it 'right', then it's pretty much a given that we're screwed and won't ever understand it as it really is.

I remember an old "All In the Family Episode". In the series Michael Stivick ("Meathead the Polack' as Archie called him") was best friends with the black kid "Lionel Jefferson" who lived next door. And in one scene, the discussion was on race and Stivick was repeatedly asking Lionel for the 'black man's perspective' on whatever was being discussed. Finally Lionel called him on it. Stivick couldn't see how racist it was to ask Lionel to provide a 'black man's perspective' instead of just asking Lionel what he thought about it as he would have asked a white guy.

Nobody ever asks for the 'white man's perspective' but so often black people have to give it as a 'black person's perspective' or they will be demonized by the PC crowd as "uncle Tom's" or "sell outs" or whatever.

That comes back to White Privilege. When have you ever seen a white person called out as a 'discredit to his race' because he took a particular position? But over the years we've certainly heard the term applied to Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Condi Rice et al when they expressed an opinion unpopular in most of the PC crowd.

Good Point. I think much of the problem revolves around how we define racism and discrimination. Each term carries different meaning for different folks when discussing the subject. Discrimination can be recognition and understanding of differences. Racism can be the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race. However, these words also can mean something much more sinister and mean-spirited.

I remember an older black man when I was a kid saying, "I don't know how to define racism, but I sure know it when I see it."

 

[Foxfyre]

Thanks for the links. Per the articles there is no allegation I can find of "legal segregation" (i.e. Jim Crows laws).

A key quote.

"He found that, despite a decline in racial segregation and improvements in incomes marked by the rise of the black middle class, blacks and Hispanics continue to live in the least desirable neighborhoods — even when they can afford better — and their children attend the lowest-performing schools."

It sounds like straight up racial preference on the part of minorities to live in close proximity to people of their own race. To whit: "blacks and Hispanics continue to live in the least desirable neighborhoods — even when they can afford better."

Should we deny minorities the right to live where they choose and among people they choose to interact with? How is their preference "legal segregation?"

Legal in the sense that it isn't illegal. Why are you trying to play with words? This nation is segregated. That is the primary reason there is still racial strife and why it is a benefit to be born white.

Until we are ACTUALLY integrated.......this issue will remain.

It isn't a desire to self segregate. It is a recognition that the barriers to integration are still too lofty.

When I was at college, all of the minorities CHOOSE to sit with each other in the dining halls.


I guess our college was segregated. Is it your contention the security guards should have broken up their friendships and dispersed them among the white students to force integration? Seriously?

Do you think the government should make it illegal for black people to associate with other black people, and the government should go into all the various China Towns and break them up? Really? Because those voluntary associations aren't "illegal," so that makes this segregation. . . . well.. . . legal?


Yeah, that's called voluntary association. Any poor black person that wants to can move into a white trailer park.

There's a good book that addresses this issue called, "Why Are All Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria"

"Walk into any racially mixed high school and you will see black youth seated together in the cafeteria. Of course, it's not just the black kids sitting together-the white, Latino, Asian Pacific, and, in some regions, American Indian youth are clustered in their own groups, too. The same phenomenon can be observed in college dining halls, faculty lounges, and corporate cafeterias. What is going on here? Is this self-segregation a problem we should try to fix, or a coping strategy we should support? How can we get past our reluctance to talk about racial issues to even discuss it? And what about all the other questions we and our children have about race? Beverly Daniel Tatum, a renowned authority on the psychology of racism, asserts that we do not know how to talk about our racial differences: Whites are afraid of using the wrong words and being perceived as "racist" while parents of color are afraid of exposing their children to painful racial realities too soon."

And the fact is if we can't have an honest discussion about racism without half of those discussing it accusing the other half of being racist because they aren't discussing it 'right', then it's pretty much a given that we're screwed and won't ever understand it as it really is.

I remember an old "All In the Family Episode". In the series Michael Stivick ("Meathead the Polack' as Archie called him") was best friends with the black kid "Lionel Jefferson" who lived next door. And in one scene, the discussion was on race and Stivick was repeatedly asking Lionel for the 'black man's perspective' on whatever was being discussed. Finally Lionel called him on it. Stivick couldn't see how racist it was to ask Lionel to provide a 'black man's perspective' instead of just asking Lionel what he thought about it as he would have asked a white guy.

Nobody ever asks for the 'white man's perspective' but so often black people have to give it as a 'black person's perspective' or they will be demonized by the PC crowd as "uncle Tom's" or "sell outs" or whatever.

That comes back to White Privilege. When have you ever seen a white person called out as a 'discredit to his race' because he took a particular position? But over the years we've certainly heard the term applied to Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Condi Rice et al when they expressed an opinion unpopular in most of the PC crowd.

Good Point. I think much of the problem revolves around how we define racism and discrimination. Each term carries different meaning for different folks when discussing the subject. Discrimination can be recognition and understanding of differences. Racism can be the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race. However, these words also can mean something much more sinister and mean-spirited.

I remember an older black man when I was a kid saying, "I don't know how to define racism, but I sure know it when I see it."

I think a lot of us 'know it when we see it.' A lot of us can also accept that every reference to our differences is not mean spirited or intended as a put down. And we trivialize true racism when we make mountains out of molehills re those incidental kinds of remarks. And who is the racist? The one who uses a word or phrase or image that he associates with race in no way, or the person who insists that the word or phrase or image has to be interpreted as racist?

 

[LoneLaugher]

You don't get that we need to proactively bring people together. People need to interact on a regular basis.....really interact.....with those of other races. That means going to the same schools, living in the same neighborhoods and playing in the same circles.

Until you suggest ways for that to happen.....you are just sweeping it all under the rug. We've been trying to sweep for several generations.

Suddenly exclaiming "We are all the same!" is not doing shit. It's avoiding reality.

I have not exclaimed that "we are all the same." I don't think anybody else has said that either. Please try to read more carefully.

And how is pushing for us to do away with political correctness and all the focus on our differences and start treating everybody the same so that we do not divide ourselves along racial lines not being proactive?

McWhorter's essay illustrates how destructive and counter productive it is when we pretend we are addressing racism by emphasizing that we are different races. His point is that this actually perpetuates racism. How is he wrong?

Political correctness is a meme. I've never been politically correct in my life. You are in opposition to me here and you are claiming that your opposition is politically correct. I challenge you to point out examples of me being politically correct. Find one.

As I said earlier. WE ARE NOT THERE YET. We still need to bring MILLIONS of Americans to the realization that we are all equal IN SPITE OF OUR DIFFERENCES.

Duh!

I have not claimed that anything I have said here is politically correct. And everything you have posted so far is the politically correct position whether you recognize it as that or not. In order to have an objective discussion, it is not at all necessary for members to agree with each other's posted opinions, but it is necessary not to dishonestly misrepresent them.

And just as a reminder the question asked in the OP is:

Does a focus on 'white privilege' and racism as McWhorter describes it help or hurt black people? Please explain your 'yes' or 'no' answer or any position you take between 'yes' or 'no'.​

McWhorter's entire essay suggests that keeping focus on our racial differences serves to reinforce racism rather than eliminating it. I believe he was writing to educate people on what needs to happen to make destructive racism go away. And that is what this entire thread and discussion is about. It is suggesting a proactive approach to deal with the issue.

Insisting that everybody else's opinions on that are crap and bullshit while misrepresenting my or other's position and/or not making any effort to rebut us or McWhorter is not useful nor is it in the spirit of the intent of the thread.

Show my politically correct statements. Explain to me how my position is politically correct.,

I will refer you to all your posts in this thread for your politically correct statements. You are certainly as entitled to your point of view as anybody else, but the idea that asking questions about race is racist or that it is the white man's responsibility to fix the problem of racism or achieve equality is the politically correct position. Demanding equality or else the whole system is racist and/or unfair or whatever is the politically correct position.

I never said asking questions about race is racist. I said that asking a question about race CAN BE racist. Want an example?

Why do negroes always vote for free stuff?

Get it? A question about race that is racist.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Political correctness plays no role in creating or ending racism.

 

[Ravi]

ppppppppfffffffttttttt

That is the general response you get when people are trying to support an imaginary line of equality.
Fits right there alongside fairness and other imaginary feel good concepts that don't accept the realities and responsibilities of making the most of what you have.

It serves no positive purpose ... Just like McWhorter was commenting on.

.

Wait, were we all not born equal, according to the constitution? Did the writers of the constitution labor under imaginary feel good concepts?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Legal in the sense that it isn't illegal. Why are you trying to play with words? This nation is segregated. That is the primary reason there is still racial strife and why it is a benefit to be born white.

Until we are ACTUALLY integrated.......this issue will remain.

It isn't a desire to self segregate. It is a recognition that the barriers to integration are still too lofty.

When I was at college, all of the minorities CHOOSE to sit with each other in the dining halls.


I guess our college was segregated. Is it your contention the security guards should have broken up their friendships and dispersed them among the white students to force integration? Seriously?

Do you think the government should make it illegal for black people to associate with other black people, and the government should go into all the various China Towns and break them up? Really? Because those voluntary associations aren't "illegal," so that makes this segregation. . . . well.. . . legal?


Yeah, that's called voluntary association. Any poor black person that wants to can move into a white trailer park.

There's a good book that addresses this issue called, "Why Are All Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria"

"Walk into any racially mixed high school and you will see black youth seated together in the cafeteria. Of course, it's not just the black kids sitting together-the white, Latino, Asian Pacific, and, in some regions, American Indian youth are clustered in their own groups, too. The same phenomenon can be observed in college dining halls, faculty lounges, and corporate cafeterias. What is going on here? Is this self-segregation a problem we should try to fix, or a coping strategy we should support? How can we get past our reluctance to talk about racial issues to even discuss it? And what about all the other questions we and our children have about race? Beverly Daniel Tatum, a renowned authority on the psychology of racism, asserts that we do not know how to talk about our racial differences: Whites are afraid of using the wrong words and being perceived as "racist" while parents of color are afraid of exposing their children to painful racial realities too soon."

And the fact is if we can't have an honest discussion about racism without half of those discussing it accusing the other half of being racist because they aren't discussing it 'right', then it's pretty much a given that we're screwed and won't ever understand it as it really is.

I remember an old "All In the Family Episode". In the series Michael Stivick ("Meathead the Polack' as Archie called him") was best friends with the black kid "Lionel Jefferson" who lived next door. And in one scene, the discussion was on race and Stivick was repeatedly asking Lionel for the 'black man's perspective' on whatever was being discussed. Finally Lionel called him on it. Stivick couldn't see how racist it was to ask Lionel to provide a 'black man's perspective' instead of just asking Lionel what he thought about it as he would have asked a white guy.

Nobody ever asks for the 'white man's perspective' but so often black people have to give it as a 'black person's perspective' or they will be demonized by the PC crowd as "uncle Tom's" or "sell outs" or whatever.

That comes back to White Privilege. When have you ever seen a white person called out as a 'discredit to his race' because he took a particular position? But over the years we've certainly heard the term applied to Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Condi Rice et al when they expressed an opinion unpopular in most of the PC crowd.

Good Point. I think much of the problem revolves around how we define racism and discrimination. Each term carries different meaning for different folks when discussing the subject. Discrimination can be recognition and understanding of differences. Racism can be the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race. However, these words also can mean something much more sinister and mean-spirited.

I remember an older black man when I was a kid saying, "I don't know how to define racism, but I sure know it when I see it."

I think a lot of us 'know it when we see it.' A lot of us can also accept that every reference to our differences is not mean spirited or intended as a put down. And we trivialize true racism when we make mountains out of molehills re those incidental kinds of remarks. And who is the racist? The one who uses a word or phrase or image that he associates with race in no way, or the person who insists that the word or phrase or image has to be interpreted as racist?

I know it when I see it. I've never called a person a racist who was not, in fact, a racist. Perfect record.

 

[BlackSand]

Good Point. I think much of the problem revolves around how we define racism and discrimination. Each term carries different meaning for different folks when discussing the subject. Discrimination can be recognition and understanding of differences. Racism can be the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race. However, these words also can mean something much more sinister and mean-spirited.

I remember an older black man when I was a kid saying, "I don't know how to define racism, but I sure know it when I see it."

Recent events in Ferguson caused people to wonder exactly how racist our local sheriff's department has been ... And an informal count in two categories was made for the previous calendar year.

Review of the records indicated that African Americans were 9 times more likely to be stopped, questioned and in rare cases ticketed while walking down the middle of the road.
The same review exposed that Whites were 10 times more likely to be stopped, questioned and in most cases ticketed for riding four-wheelers or dirt bikes on the public roadways.

Is that racism, even though the total number of stops were close to equal ... I don't think so?

Did the white people asked about whites and their stops by deputies think it was racism ... No.
Did the African Americans asked about African Americans and their stops by deputies think it was racism ... You bet they did.

.

 

[BlackSand]

Wait, were we all not born equal, according to the constitution? Did the writers of the constitution labor under imaginary feel good concepts?

Having equal rights and equal opportunities does not make us any more equal as people.
Not the government, the Constitution nor the Founding Fathers can possibly make you equal to someone else ... They can only ensure that you have the equal opportunity to excel on your own.

It is only when people try to define equal opportunity to include provisions that are not equal at all that we stray from any sense of true equality in the Constitutional form.

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