Who Are The Palestinains?

[amity1844]

So how many nations have recognized it so far?

 

[Hossfly]

So how many nations have recognized it so far?

You're an impertinent critter and smarmy to boot. You were asked a simple, civil question.

 

[Kondor3]

Toastman, I don't believe Palestine is independent by any definition, so maybe that has something to do with it. They do not maintain diplomatic relations, they are not handling their own external security, etc.

Probably has something to do with the idea that the Palestinians would screw-up a two-car hillbilly funeral...

 

[Indeependent]

The PLO did without consulting the people.

What made the 1988 declaration valid and the 1948 declaration not?

How exactly does one "consult the people"?

You address my post first then I will address yours.

I actually work for a living and my mind is honed to tune out bullshit.

How exactly does one "consult the people"?

 

[Kondor3]

How exactly does one "consult the people"?

You address my post first then I will address yours.

I actually work for a living and my mind is honed to tune out bullshit.

How exactly does one "consult the people"?

No, Tinny, the guy's right...

Time for you to man-up and give a straight answer...

How does one 'consult the people'?

 

[MJB12741]

In 1988 Palestine was declared "a sovereign state", (not a nation) by the PLO & supported by the UN. Since then Hamas became the duly elected government by the Palestinian people themselves & the Palestinians have since massacred each other in record numbers. I have no problem with Palestine being a sovereign state. Do you?

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



QUOTE=P F Tinmore;9258766]

That is not true.

The Palestinian declaration was inside its own valid international borders. Nobody has ever proved otherwise.



Good question. I never could understand that move.

Perhaps it is because the PLO started picking up foreign donors in the 1970s. As these donations increased they moved away from the Palestinian agenda and moved toward the donor's agenda.

The creation of 3 new muslim states proved that they had no International borders as these 3 states were inside the borders set. As the treaties show they were interim borders in name only so that the two mandates could create Syria, Iraq and trans Jordan. once they were set in stone the Palestinian borders ceased to exist. so in 1946 the only option the Palestinians had was to become Israeli's and stop all terrorism and violence or move to one of the muslim states. In 1947 another option was opened to them they could declare independence on the land allocated by the partition plan. The 1948 declaration was deemed invalid by the UN and was denied, placing the Palestinians in limbo. This led to them becoming Jordanian and Egyptian citizens of their own free will, a show of their free determination.

Proof enough for you that Palestine as you know it had no international borders, and was never a sovereign nation until 1988

Can you back that up with a link?[/QUOTE]

 

[P F Tinmore]

Not true ? Nobody has proved otherwise? You;re a liar Tinmore, and you know it.

Are you trying to say that Israel DID NOT declare independence on that land already BEFORE the Palestinians did ?

Show me where Palestine's declared borders overlapped Israels declared borders.

Who said anything about borders???

Look at the fuckin dates. Israel declared independence in May of 1948 while 'Palestine' tried to declare independence in September on 1948 which was four months AFTER Israel declared independence.
Weather you like it or not, weather you recognize it or not or weather the Palestinians like it or not, Israel declared independence on the land allotted to it in the partition plan. There is no arguing that. If you have a link that says otherwise, please show me. If not, then admit you're wrong .

And again, the Palestinians declared independence in 1988. THAT IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE.

But the Partition plan was never approved or implemented so that is a worthless statement.

And besides, Israel never recognized the borders of that land.

 

[toastman]

Show me where Palestine's declared borders overlapped Israels declared borders.

Who said anything about borders???

Look at the fuckin dates. Israel declared independence in May of 1948 while 'Palestine' tried to declare independence in September on 1948 which was four months AFTER Israel declared independence.
Weather you like it or not, weather you recognize it or not or weather the Palestinians like it or not, Israel declared independence on the land allotted to it in the partition plan. There is no arguing that. If you have a link that says otherwise, please show me. If not, then admit you're wrong .

And again, the Palestinians declared independence in 1988. THAT IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE.

But the Partition plan was never approved or implemented so that is a worthless statement.

And besides, Israel never recognized the borders of that land.

Doesn't matter if it HAPPENED or not. And how is it a worthless statement if it is the truth?? Do you have a link that says otherwise? I know Israel did not declare borders right away, but that is irrelevant.

Remember this statement from that link you always used ( forgot the name):
'Israel legally declared independence on the land allotted to it in the partition plan'

I understand that YOU don't recognize Israel's declaration , but that doesn't matter. I've already shown you other links that say just that, yet you STILL deny it.

I have links, you have repetitive lies.

 

[toastman]

In 1988 Palestine was declared "a sovereign state", (not a nation) by the PLO & supported by the UN. Since then Hamas became the duly elected government by the Palestinian people themselves & the Palestinians have since massacred each other in record numbers. I have no problem with Palestine being a sovereign state. Do you?

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



QUOTE=P F Tinmore;9258766]

That is not true.

The Palestinian declaration was inside its own valid international borders. Nobody has ever proved otherwise.



Good question. I never could understand that move.

Perhaps it is because the PLO started picking up foreign donors in the 1970s. As these donations increased they moved away from the Palestinian agenda and moved toward the donor's agenda.

The creation of 3 new muslim states proved that they had no International borders as these 3 states were inside the borders set. As the treaties show they were interim borders in name only so that the two mandates could create Syria, Iraq and trans Jordan. once they were set in stone the Palestinian borders ceased to exist. so in 1946 the only option the Palestinians had was to become Israeli's and stop all terrorism and violence or move to one of the muslim states. In 1947 another option was opened to them they could declare independence on the land allocated by the partition plan. The 1948 declaration was deemed invalid by the UN and was denied, placing the Palestinians in limbo. This led to them becoming Jordanian and Egyptian citizens of their own free will, a show of their free determination.

Proof enough for you that Palestine as you know it had no international borders, and was never a sovereign nation until 1988

Can you back that up with a link?

[/QUOTE]

I'll never understand why Tinmore asks us for links.

He's asked me for a link that proves Israel has borders. I showed him several, he still denies it.
He asked me for a link that Resolution 181 was used by Israel and Palestine. I showed him several, he still denies it.
And when I use a link to back up my statement, he still claims I'm wrong and he's right, even though he doesn't provide me with a link to disprove what I said.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Who said anything about borders???

Look at the fuckin dates. Israel declared independence in May of 1948 while 'Palestine' tried to declare independence in September on 1948 which was four months AFTER Israel declared independence.
Weather you like it or not, weather you recognize it or not or weather the Palestinians like it or not, Israel declared independence on the land allotted to it in the partition plan. There is no arguing that. If you have a link that says otherwise, please show me. If not, then admit you're wrong .

And again, the Palestinians declared independence in 1988. THAT IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE.

But the Partition plan was never approved or implemented so that is a worthless statement.

And besides, Israel never recognized the borders of that land.

Doesn't matter if it HAPPENED or not. And how is it a worthless statement if it is the truth?? Do you have a link that says otherwise? I know Israel did not declare borders right away, but that is irrelevant.

Remember this statement from that link you always used ( forgot the name):
'Israel legally declared independence on the land allotted to it in the partition plan'

I understand that YOU don't recognize Israel's declaration , but that doesn't matter. I've already shown you other links that say just that, yet you STILL deny it.

I have links, you have repetitive lies.

I said that the Palestinians did not declare their state on any Israeli land.

Now you are saying that Israel claimed no land.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[P F Tinmore]

In 1988 Palestine was declared "a sovereign state", (not a nation) by the PLO & supported by the UN. Since then Hamas became the duly elected government by the Palestinian people themselves & the Palestinians have since massacred each other in record numbers. I have no problem with Palestine being a sovereign state. Do you?

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



QUOTE=P F Tinmore;9258766]

The creation of 3 new muslim states proved that they had no International borders as these 3 states were inside the borders set. As the treaties show they were interim borders in name only so that the two mandates could create Syria, Iraq and trans Jordan. once they were set in stone the Palestinian borders ceased to exist. so in 1946 the only option the Palestinians had was to become Israeli's and stop all terrorism and violence or move to one of the muslim states. In 1947 another option was opened to them they could declare independence on the land allocated by the partition plan. The 1948 declaration was deemed invalid by the UN and was denied, placing the Palestinians in limbo. This led to them becoming Jordanian and Egyptian citizens of their own free will, a show of their free determination.

Proof enough for you that Palestine as you know it had no international borders, and was never a sovereign nation until 1988

Can you back that up with a link?

I'll never understand why Tinmore asks us for links.

He's asked me for a link that proves Israel has borders. I showed him several, he still denies it.
He asked me for a link that Resolution 181 was used by Israel and Palestine. I showed him several, he still denies it.
And when I use a link to back up my statement, he still claims I'm wrong and he's right, even though he doesn't provide me with a link to disprove what I said.[/QUOTE]

Neither Israel nor Palestine have a state based on the proposed borders of resolution 181.

Your statement is pointless.

 

[toastman]

But the Partition plan was never approved or implemented so that is a worthless statement.

And besides, Israel never recognized the borders of that land.

Doesn't matter if it HAPPENED or not. And how is it a worthless statement if it is the truth?? Do you have a link that says otherwise? I know Israel did not declare borders right away, but that is irrelevant.

Remember this statement from that link you always used ( forgot the name):
'Israel legally declared independence on the land allotted to it in the partition plan'

I understand that YOU don't recognize Israel's declaration , but that doesn't matter. I've already shown you other links that say just that, yet you STILL deny it.

I have links, you have repetitive lies.

I said that the Palestinians did not declare their state on any Israeli land.

Now you are saying that Israel claimed no land.

Thanks for proving my point.

I did not say Israel claimed no land. The did. The land that was allotted to them in 181.

And the Palestinians declared independence on the SAME LAND ( tried to) 4 months later.

Where's your links that show Israel didn't declare independence on the land allotted to them in the partition plan?

 

[toastman]

In 1988 Palestine was declared "a sovereign state", (not a nation) by the PLO & supported by the UN. Since then Hamas became the duly elected government by the Palestinian people themselves & the Palestinians have since massacred each other in record numbers. I have no problem with Palestine being a sovereign state. Do you?

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



QUOTE=P F Tinmore;9258766]

Can you back that up with a link?

I'll never understand why Tinmore asks us for links.

He's asked me for a link that proves Israel has borders. I showed him several, he still denies it.
He asked me for a link that Resolution 181 was used by Israel and Palestine. I showed him several, he still denies it.
And when I use a link to back up my statement, he still claims I'm wrong and he's right, even though he doesn't provide me with a link to disprove what I said.

Neither Israel nor Palestine have a state based on the proposed borders of resolution 181.

Your statement is pointless.[/QUOTE]

You keep saying that resolution 181 was pointless.
I've provided you with links that state that both 'Palestine' and Israel used resolution 181 as their basis for declaring independence, therefore flushing your 'resolution 181 was useless comment' down the toilet.

I already won the argument. You lost. Again.

Was there ever a time that you were right about something?
You have got to be the most misinformed poster here about the conflict.

BTW, you still have not provided ONE LINK that backs up your claims.

 

[Vigilante]

Israel has best watch it's ALLY America for another 2 and a half years, and PRAY that a Conservative takes over the presidency...so they won't have this scum advising the Manchurian muslim....

 

[RoccoR]

Phoenall, MJB12741, toastman, et al,

My friends, don't get drawn into this protracted idea. The facts speak for themselves. For the zillionth time. They cannot be any clearer. Our friend PF_Tinmore will believe what he wants to believe. Get past it. Don't get caught-up in this virtual victim argument:

As to the Independence of the Palestinian State, recognition by the UN, recognition of A/RES/181(II):

By virtue of the natural, historical and legal right of the Palestinian Arab people to its homeland, Palestine, and of the sacrifices of its succeeding generations in defence of the freedom and independence of that homeland,

Pursuant to the resolutions of the Arab Summit Conferences and on the basis of the international legitimacy embodied in the resolutions of the United Nations since 1947, and

Through the exercise by the Palestinian Arab people of its right to self-determination, political independence and sovereignty over its territory:

The Palestine National Council hereby declares, in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people, the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.

Recalling its resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947, in which, inter alia, it called for the establishment of an Arab State and a Jewish State in Palestine, ... ... ...

Recalling its resolution 3237 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974 on the observer status for the Palestine Liberation Organization and subsequent relevant resolutions,

1. Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;

2. Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;

3. Decides that, effective as of 15 December 1988, the designation "Palestine" should be used in place of the designation "Palestine Liberation Organization" in the United Nations system, without prejudice to the observer status and functions of the Palestine Liberation Organization within the United Nations system, in conformity with relevant United Nations resolutions and practice;​

SOURCE: A/RES/43/177 15 December 1988

SOURCE: A/43/827 S/20278 18 November 1988

As to the initial implementation of A/RES/181(II), and the partition of Two-States (Arab and Jewish) by the General Assembly:

• One Arab State
• One Jewish State

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

Recalling relevant General Assembly resolutions, including resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947, which partitioned mandated Palestine into two States, one Arab and one Jewish,

SOURCE: Resolution adopted by the General Assembly A/RES/ES-10/14 12 December 2003.

SOURCE: PAL/169 17 May 1948

Today, the argument rests on the idea that eventually, the Palestinian's of the 21st Century will eventually sue for peace, or evaporate. At the present time, the Palestinians, in their usual masquerade as the virtual victim, are not yet ready to enter into good faith negotiations. So, the containment, quarantine, and occupation will continue until such time as the threat is neutralized. This is a Palestinian decision, and the direction they have chosen in the exercise of the right to self-determination; it is what they want by their very deeds and actions.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Billo_Really]

There are some who say the Palestinians are the indigenous people of the land. So lets see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque? Yep, Israel is stealing Palestinian land. It's called Palestinian Mentality.

What happened 2000 years ago, don't mean shit today.

 

[Billo_Really]

Aw, bless you again for proving my point that were no Muslim Palestinians at all in ancient Israel & that they have become invaders on Israel's land which can be proven by looking at population figures since 1948.

That's not what that shows.

 

[Hossfly]

There are some who say the Palestinians are the indigenous people of the land. So lets see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque? Yep, Israel is stealing Palestinian land. It's called Palestinian Mentality.

What happened 2000 years ago, don't mean shit today.

What's happening today is the Palestinians are getting buggered and they asked for it. So they had better like it.

 

[toastman]

There are some who say the Palestinians are the indigenous people of the land. So lets see now, which came first, Solomon's Temple or the Al Asqa Mosque? Yep, Israel is stealing Palestinian land. It's called Palestinian Mentality.

What happened 2000 years ago, don't mean shit today.

What's happening today is the Palestinians are getting buggered and they asked for it. So they had better like it.

Someone should have told the Palestinians that when you play with fire, you get burnt.....

 

[Picaro]

Didn't read the thread, far too long at 132 pagers in my browser settings, but I ran across this Op Ed a little while ago while following another story.

So Much for Arab Nationality; Ditto for "Occupation" - Op-Eds - Arutz Sheva

Do the 'Palestinians' have a 'national anthem' yet? If they do, finally, do the lyrics sound as if they were written by Borat?