Why do the anti God crowd attack the bible ?

[TakeAStepBack]

 

[Sky Dancer]

Not if Sky has her way. If Sky had her way, your children would be taken from you and you'd be tossed in a dungeon....possibly worse.

As much as we disagree on fundamental principles, I don't believe that in the slightest.

Thank you Avatar. I would stand beside you and fight for you right to practice your religion. I would never imprison you for your beliefs or harm you or your children ever.

Thank you for recognizing Allie's lie about me.

Just as you may wish to meet me in heaven, I wish for your enlightenment. It is the highest aspiration I can offer.

 

[Avatar4321]

So you pick and choose what you will believe from the book ?

The whole book is either inspired by God or it is not ?

First, the Bible isn't a book. It's a collection of books. So it indeed could have some noninspired parts. I don't particularly consider Songs of Solomon inspired of God.

Second, Inspired of God doesn't mean perfect.

 

[JScott]

15And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.

Here's #3, this is essentially saying 2 of every animal can fit on a boat 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet tall.

Not only is that scientifically wrong to think that, it's downright crazy.

By the way whatever happened to freshwater fish during the great flood?

Fish didnt have, get this, nostrils.

You're so ignorant it's funny.


Home| News

Fish fossil confirms origin of nostrils
18:00 03 November 2004 by Bob Holmes




Land vertebrates can breathe through their noses thanks to an anatomical rearrangement of fish-style nostrils. That same rearrangement may explain why cleft lips and cleft palates are common birth defects in humans.

The nasal passages of land vertebrates differ dramatically from their fish ancestors. In fishes, the nose is independent of the mouth and throat. Water enters the nasal sac through one pair of nostrils and exits through a second pair.

By contrast, land vertebrates - technically known as tetrapods, because of their four limbs - have nasal passages that open to the outside world through a pair of external nostrils, and to the throat through a pair of internal nostrils or choanae.

Many biologists suspect the choanae evolved from one pair of fish nostrils that migrated over millions of years to a new position inside the throat. To do that, however, the nostrils would have had to cross through the line of teeth at some point, a move that sceptics regarded as unlikely.

Perfect intermediate

Their doubts should vanish, thanks to a careful reconstruction of several fossilised skulls of the most primitive known ancestor of tetrapods, a fish known as Kenichthys campbelli, from Yunnan, China. In Kenichthys, the second pair of nostrils opens neither externally nor internally, but directly into a gap in the row of teeth (Nature, vol 432, p 94).

"It's as if we were to have a nostril located on the upper jaw margin between the canine and the adjacent incisor," says Per Ahlberg of Uppsala University in Sweden, who did the study with Min Zhu of the Chinese Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology (IVPP) in Beijing.

In short, Kenichthys is a perfect intermediate, says John Maisey, a vertebrate palaeontologist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York.

Developing human embryos have a gap in the same place in the upper jaw, which later fuses. If it fails to fuse, the result is a cleft palate or cleft lip. Most likely, then, these birth defects arise from the same developmental process that gave us the ability to breathe through our noses, says Ahlberg.


Fish fossil confirms origin of nostrils - 03 November 2004 - New Scientist

Google

Sorry but another ignorant creationist is responsible for that mis-quote. Of course fish have nostrils however:

Genesis 7:15 - "And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life."

Two factors need to be considered. First, God destroyed those creatures that have the "breath of life." This would exempt those that breath through gills. Second, God destroyed all flesh "upon the earth;" see also Genesis 7:4 which states, "every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth." This refers specifically to land animals and not to creatures that live in the waters. Therefore, even creatures like whales that breath the breath of life would be excluded because they do not live upon the earth. Clearly, enough of these creatures would be able to survive the flood so as to make their preservation in the ark unnecessary.

Fish dont have the "breath of life".

Oh and about your ignorant statement, I have the intelligence to correct myself.

 

[Avatar4321]

Not if Sky has her way. If Sky had her way, your children would be taken from you and you'd be tossed in a dungeon....possibly worse.

As much as we disagree on fundamental principles, I don't believe that in the slightest.

Thank you Avatar. I would stand beside you and fight for you right to practice your religion. I would never imprison you for your beliefs or harm you or your children ever.

Thank you for recognizing Allie's lie about me.

Just as you may wish to meet me in heaven, I wish for your enlightenment. It is the highest aspiration I can offer.

Oh we may meet in Hell before we get to heaven. but then I don't exactly hold to traditional views of heaven and hell. I don't hold to the belief that people need to remain in forever.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Fish didnt have, get this, nostrils.

You're so ignorant it's funny.


Home| News

Fish fossil confirms origin of nostrils
18:00 03 November 2004 by Bob Holmes




Land vertebrates can breathe through their noses thanks to an anatomical rearrangement of fish-style nostrils. That same rearrangement may explain why cleft lips and cleft palates are common birth defects in humans.

The nasal passages of land vertebrates differ dramatically from their fish ancestors. In fishes, the nose is independent of the mouth and throat. Water enters the nasal sac through one pair of nostrils and exits through a second pair.

By contrast, land vertebrates - technically known as tetrapods, because of their four limbs - have nasal passages that open to the outside world through a pair of external nostrils, and to the throat through a pair of internal nostrils or choanae.

Many biologists suspect the choanae evolved from one pair of fish nostrils that migrated over millions of years to a new position inside the throat. To do that, however, the nostrils would have had to cross through the line of teeth at some point, a move that sceptics regarded as unlikely.

Perfect intermediate

Their doubts should vanish, thanks to a careful reconstruction of several fossilised skulls of the most primitive known ancestor of tetrapods, a fish known as Kenichthys campbelli, from Yunnan, China. In Kenichthys, the second pair of nostrils opens neither externally nor internally, but directly into a gap in the row of teeth (Nature, vol 432, p 94).

"It's as if we were to have a nostril located on the upper jaw margin between the canine and the adjacent incisor," says Per Ahlberg of Uppsala University in Sweden, who did the study with Min Zhu of the Chinese Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology (IVPP) in Beijing.

In short, Kenichthys is a perfect intermediate, says John Maisey, a vertebrate palaeontologist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York.

Developing human embryos have a gap in the same place in the upper jaw, which later fuses. If it fails to fuse, the result is a cleft palate or cleft lip. Most likely, then, these birth defects arise from the same developmental process that gave us the ability to breathe through our noses, says Ahlberg.


Fish fossil confirms origin of nostrils - 03 November 2004 - New Scientist

Google

Sorry but another ignorant creationist is responsible for that mis-quote. Of course fish have nostrils however:

Genesis 7:15 - "And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life."

Two factors need to be considered. First, God destroyed those creatures that have the "breath of life." This would exempt those that breath through gills. Second, God destroyed all flesh "upon the earth;" see also Genesis 7:4 which states, "every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth." This refers specifically to land animals and not to creatures that live in the waters. Therefore, even creatures like whales that breath the breath of life would be excluded because they do not live upon the earth. Clearly, enough of these creatures would be able to survive the flood so as to make their preservation in the ark unnecessary.

Fish dont have the "breath of life".

Now you're are trying to spin,atleast you are good at something.

 

[cbirch2]

T-rex's and velociraptors were already extinct long before humans and cows came along.

Aw crap. Now youve done it.....

No proof of that whatsoever other then faulty dating methods.

Did you watch my videos ?

Faulting dating methods. O so i guess Silver-Argon, and Carbon-14 and Iodine dating methods all give the same error.

By saying radioactive dating methods are wrong your saying everything we know about nuclear physics is wrong. Its not. If you wanna debate particle physics and the standard model i would love to, it was my original major.

 

[Avatar4321]

To you its everything.

To most people on the earth its merely a book

What book is "merely a book"? If the truth matters, then all books are not "merely books." They are keys to finding and learning the truth.

I don't know your personal history with the Bible, but whether you believe it or not, I think it naive to dismiss the collective wisdom of thousands of years of human history as "merely a book"

 

[Avatar4321]

And rampant homosexuality is always a precursor of the demise of any civilization.

All outbreaks of sin among the people are precursors to the demise of a civilization. Most particularly vile or those of pride, lack of charity, and a subset of lacking charity, lacking civility.

 

[JScott]

Evolution is fact and arguing with people that dont fully understand what it even is is fruitless.

Alliebaba still has yet to tell me what he thinks about the three hominid skulls i referred him to.

Alliebaba is a she......

Its ok we all make that mistake.

 

[cbirch2]

Evolution is fact and arguing with people that dont fully understand what it even is is fruitless.

Alliebaba still has yet to tell me what he thinks about the three hominid skulls i referred him to.

Alliebaba is a she......

Its ok we all make that mistake.

I know. Its was intentional.

 

[JScott]

Your source says 50,000 animals were on board the Ark, including dinosaurs with men.



All basic elementary level science says that is jibberish. T-Rex wasn't quiety sitting on board next to cows and man.



Anything else? Or must the discussion stay at a pre-school level?

Argentinosaurus is a genus of titanosaur sauropod dinosaur first discovered by Guillermo Heredia in Argentina. The generic name means "silver lizard", in reference to the country in which it was discovered ("Argentina" is derived from the Latin argentum). The dinosaur lived on the then-island continent of South America somewhere between 97 and 94 million years ago, during the mid Cretaceous Period.

An early reconstruction by Gregory S Paul estimated Argentinosaurus at between 30–35 metres (98–115 ft) in length and with a weight of up to 80–100 tonnes (88–110 short tons).

Are you saying a 145 foot boat couldn't accomodate two 115 foot dinosaurs weighing a combined 220 tons, and tens of thousands of other animals?


That's heathen talk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[cbirch2]

Argentinosaurus is a genus of titanosaur sauropod dinosaur first discovered by Guillermo Heredia in Argentina. The generic name means "silver lizard", in reference to the country in which it was discovered ("Argentina" is derived from the Latin argentum). The dinosaur lived on the then-island continent of South America somewhere between 97 and 94 million years ago, during the mid Cretaceous Period.

An early reconstruction by Gregory S Paul estimated Argentinosaurus at between 30–35 metres (98–115 ft) in length and with a weight of up to 80–100 tonnes (88–110 short tons).

Are you saying a 145 foot boat couldn't accomodate two 115 foot dinosaurs weighing a combined 220 tons, and tens of thousands of other animals?


That's heathen talk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your making the mistake of thinking that these people can do math.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Well i see the title of my thread was spot on,almost feel like a prophet.

 

[Avatar4321]

So you pick and choose what you will believe from the book ?

The whole book is either inspired by God or it is not ?

No I don't take any of it as fact, I don't believe in your God or any other god(s).

But I like a lot of the life lessons and principles in the New Testament, only one I can think of that I don't is the gay-hating.

That my friend is why God is not popular with you.

It's too much for you to take in.

I don't think God is too much for anyone to take in.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Aw crap. Now youve done it.....

No proof of that whatsoever other then faulty dating methods.

Did you watch my videos ?

Did you watch mine?

Yes i did.

 

[Avatar4321]

The titile of your thread pulses with hate

Please enlighten me: How do words pulse with hate? What the heck does that even mean?

 

[JScott]

I guess they must of had stun guns back in the day otherwise how would they have gotten not one, but two t-rex's on board?

And where would they have berthed two animals of that size on a vessel as small as the ark?

They all knew they were in the presence of God so they were all temporarily absolved of their animal instincts.


They all most likely started grabbing oars in their mouths to help the Ark move.

No they didn't get those animal instincts until after the flood they were vegetarians.

Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons. And He said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth.
Gen 9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon the animals of the earth, and upon every bird of the air, upon all that moves on the earth, and upon all the fish of the sea. Into your hand they are delivered.
Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herb.
Gen 9:4 But you shall not eat of flesh with the life in it, or the blood of it.


Humans and Animals were originally Created to eat Only Plants!




Abstract:
Sharp teeth were not part of the creation, they were part of the curse.

Adam, Eve and all the animals were created to eat only vegetation (see comments on Genesis 1:29-30). Nothing died prior to the spiritual fall of Adam and Eve (see comments on Genesis 3:19 and 3:21).



Did plants die in the Garden of Eden?


Plant "death" is different than animal or human death. Plants eat, drink, grow and respond to stimuli, but they do not have a central nervous system. Nor do they have blood. According to scripture only organisms with blood in them are "alive".

“For the life of the flesh is in the blood…”
Leviticus 17:11 (King James Version)

Plants do not die in the biblical sense of the word, because they are not "alive" in the biblical sense.

Humans and animals also posses a state of consciousness that plants can not. The Hebrew word "nephesh" is the word used in the Bible for consciousness. Nephesh is only used in application to man and animals. Plants are not conscious creatures.

Sin brought death to man and animals only. Plants do not truly die in the sense that humans and animals do. Though they are alive in a biological sense, they do not have a spirit, consciousness or soul.



What did animals who appear today as carnivorous eat in the Garden of Eden?

The Bible tells us that when he created the world, all animals ate only plants. But when we look at the animals in the world today we see that many of them have teeth that appear to have been designed for eating meat. Why is this so? Did animals with teeth and sabers once use them to eat vegetation? Or did their teeth change. And if so, how and when?




When we look at the teeth of the first humans (Neanderthals) we see that they had larger molars and smaller canine teeth than we do. They had thicker enamel (they would need this if they lived longer than we do), and had well worn third molars, or wisdom teeth.

God changed the diet of humans in Genesis 9 when Noah got off the ark. I believe that one of the reasons God did this was that many of the plants that had nourished man before the flood had now died off (or were not as plentiful after the flood). Plant degeneration would also effect the nutritional value of plants.





The diet and dentition of animals however changed before this as is evident from the fossil record.

Animal teeth

If animals were created to eat plants then why do many of them have structures that appear to be created to cause harm? Like Tigers, dogs, Etc.?

None of these harmful things existed prior to the curse God placed on the earth when Adam sinned.

Spiders did not spin webs to catch insects. This is one of the many changes that occurred after "the fall". There is no beneficial use for spider webs when spiders ate only plants.



The spiny puffer fish

The spiny puffer (Diodon holocanthus) fish combines pointy spikes with the ability to inflate three times its normal size as a defense mechanism. There would be nothing to defend itself against in a perfect world before sin.

It seems unlikely that God created animals with such harmful structures simply because he foreknew the entrance of sin and death in this world (through Adams sin).

Also the fossils of animals like Heterodontosaurus "Different-tooth Lizard" and simosuchus (sp), australopithecines etc indicate that many features of the masticatory systems did change in animals after the fall. Heterodontosaurus is a stage in between vegetarian and carnivorous.

These were mutational changes occurring only after the fall. This changed benign structures into harmful ones.



Isaiah 11:6-9

“The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.”
Isaiah 11:6-9 (King James Version)



Hosea 2:18

“And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely. “
Hosea 2:18-30 (King James Version)





One can not even imagine how such things would be useful in a sea of fish that never preyed on other fish. Surely the spiny puffer did not balloon up in order to frighten the vegetation God instructed it to eat.

No, these features (spikes etc) occurred after the fall along with a change of diet for this creature (it now eats: mollusks, crabs, etc.).




Dr. Jack Cuozzo explains one of the many ill effects that the original sin had on the earth:


"Therefore, it is logical to believe that after the Fall, all the harmful isotopes, rays, and gases must have been switched on when God said, "Cursed is the ground because of you" (Gen. 3:17). The restraint in the rocks was removed and the radioactive substances began to open up with a rapid burst, their harmful products possibly still at levels too deep for all of the damaging rays and gases to reach the surface. No doubt, though, some did break through and men and animals began to change immediately post-Fall.
I believe that this is how carnivorous behavior began, with a distortion or breakdown of the genetic messages in tooth and jaw formation. Some herbivorous creatures became carnivorous and were transformed similar to the caterpillar/butterfly transition. Much work needs to be done on this subject, and especially loss of genetic information. Lord willing, this will be my next effort. The radioactive elements probably made an even more disastrous debut on earth as they were spewed forth at the flood when the earth was torn asunder and "all the fountains of the deep burst open" (pg 148 "Buried Alive")


"What happened to the carnivores’ hinge jaws, razor sharp molars, and six-inch fangs? Did they use them to pounce on watermelons? How could they exist on vegetation? Don’t you suppose that they ate straw like an ox and had different masticatory systems, similar to what they will have again and do again in the new creation described in Isaiah 11:7 and 65:25?" (Pg 98-99 "Buried Alive" by Dr. Jack Cuozzo)

A scientists no less....thinks carnivores were plant eaters....what a maroon....(thats Bugs Bunny talk from the 40s).

MooooOOOOOoooooo!

 

[JScott]

Here i will help you.

Gen 2:7 And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Heb 11:3

(ASV) By faith we understand that the worlds have been framed by the word of God, so that what is seen hath not been made out of things which appear.

(BBE) By faith it is clear to us that the order of events was fixed by the word of God, so that what is seen has not been made from things which only seem to be.

(CEV) Because of our faith, we know that the world was made at God's command. We also know that what can be seen was made out of what cannot be seen.

(KJV) Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

(KJV+) Through faithG4102 we understandG3539 that theG3588 worldsG165 were framedG2675 by the wordG4487 of God,G2316 so that things which are seenG991 were notG3361 madeG1096 ofG1537 things which do appear.G5316

(MKJV) By faith we understand that the ages were framed by a word of God, so that the things being seen not to have come into being out of the things that appear.

Thanks but all you did was show 7 other passages that dispute what youre trying to promote. God didnt need particles to create the world, did he? He just plain creates. He doesnt need anything, according to the bible.

This section of the passage "so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear" doesnt say we're made of particles.

So that marbles that we see were not made of other things we see. So in other words, *poof* there was a marble. God is capable of that according to the bible. Unless you dispute it.

You don't think elements are in the dust

I didnt say that at all did I?

 

[Avatar4321]

That my friend is why God is not popular with you.

It's too much for you to take in.

Yes, I'll never take in principles of bigotry.

But I won't become christian until the Bible is proven to be fact. I'm a man of facts, not a man of faith. So until snakes can talk, until there's evidence the world is 6,000 years old or less, until it's proven men can survive inside whales, I won't take the Bible as fact.

Don't insult me i am a man of both.

There is no reason to conclude that one can't be both.

The only way to know whether the Doctrines of Christ are true is to do them. And then the Spirit will reveal the truth of God to you.