Why does the United States have the largest prison population in the world ?

[danielpalos]

Why? Because we believe in law and order and the rule of law. Because we don't want to become a banana republic where most criminals never see jail time. Because the cost of allowing criminals to go loose on the streets is far greater than the cost of jailing them.

And if this or that demographic is over-represented in the prison population in relation to their percentage of the overall population, that is no one's fault but theirs. If 30% of all criminals happen to belong to a demographic that constitutes only 18% of the population, that is no one's fault but theirs.

seems due more to right wing bigotry than social justice.

fundamentals matter under capitalism. capital must circulate not Labor. that is why socialism must be about equality and equal protection of the law for the Poor.

We would not have the social problems we do, with equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.

Solving for simple poverty on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States can only improve the efficiency of our market based economy due to that increase in market participation.

Who would be worse off with equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed and a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The problem in our country is people selling drugs more than using them. Not many of our citizens today are in prison for drug use alone. Most that involve drug possession are in there for other crimes; some that are associated with possession, and others that are associated with usage such as breaking and entering or other theft.

I don't know anything about Portugal, so I looked it up. According to this article, legalizing drugs was not really making drugs legal. It's still illegal to sell drugs, police confiscate any drugs when found, and it only shifted the burden of addicts from prison to treatment centers. That last was the only thing that really changed.

Did Portugal Really Legalize All Drugs?

Your source and link certainly destroy our far left Progressive Blues Man's foolish argument.

It didn't make any sense when he wrote it. No matter what you make legal, more people will be involved in it. We had prohibition in this country. Yes, some people still drank, but do we have more alcoholics today than back then or the other way around?

If we legalized all drugs in this country and found it to be a total disaster, there is very little way to reverse it because many more people would be hooked. Making it illegal again would create criminals out of all those poor souls who would find alternatives to getting the drug.

I disagree.

I'm not going to start shooting smack if it was decriminalized, are you?

No, but then again I'm not 20 years old looking to impress a girl or get accepted by the "in" crowd at work. That's how I started smoking cigarettes and I still can't quit.

I think you're overestimating the number of people who will try drugs for the first time if they are decriminalized
The fact is anyone can get just about any drug they want now so decriminalization won't usher in a generation of new users

Well I'll tell ya, I was a teen of the 70's. Back then, everybody you knew smoked or had pot. Various other drugs would come around from time to time like hash, acid, even cocaine once in a blue moon. But until this day, I"ve never seen heroin in person. It was extremely rare when I was a teenager.

To be honest, if I got hooked on heroin or crack, I wouldn't know how to find more. Nobody I currently know uses the stuff, and all the people who I did know that used it are people I'm no longer associated with and have been distant from them for many years. They are either dead or I have nothing to do with them.

But be honest here. If we somehow made DUI legal in this country, would you expect more or less accidents and deadly accidents? If Muslims were ever to infiltrate our government, and made rape a minor misdemeanor, would you expect to see more women attacked, less, or about the same?

There are a lot of people who are not hooked on opioid products because they never had them before. Why? Because they are illegal to buy.

 

[danielpalos]

Your source and link certainly destroy our far left Progressive Blues Man's foolish argument.

It didn't make any sense when he wrote it. No matter what you make legal, more people will be involved in it. We had prohibition in this country. Yes, some people still drank, but do we have more alcoholics today than back then or the other way around?

If we legalized all drugs in this country and found it to be a total disaster, there is very little way to reverse it because many more people would be hooked. Making it illegal again would create criminals out of all those poor souls who would find alternatives to getting the drug.

I disagree.

I'm not going to start shooting smack if it was decriminalized, are you?

No, but then again I'm not 20 years old looking to impress a girl or get accepted by the "in" crowd at work. That's how I started smoking cigarettes and I still can't quit.

I think you're overestimating the number of people who will try drugs for the first time if they are decriminalized
The fact is anyone can get just about any drug they want now so decriminalization won't usher in a generation of new users

Well I'll tell ya, I was a teen of the 70's. Back then, everybody you knew smoked or had pot. Various other drugs would come around from time to time like hash, acid, even cocaine once in a blue moon. But until this day, I"ve never seen heroin in person. It was extremely rare when I was a teenager.

To be honest, if I got hooked on heroin or crack, I wouldn't know how to find more. Nobody I currently know uses the stuff, and all the people who I did know that used it are people I'm no longer associated with and have been distant from them for many years. They are either dead or I have nothing to do with them.

But be honest here. If we somehow made DUI legal in this country, would you expect more or less accidents and deadly accidents? If Muslims were ever to infiltrate our government, and made rape a minor misdemeanor, would you expect to see more women attacked, less, or about the same?

There are a lot of people who are not hooked on opioid products because they never had them before. Why? Because they are illegal to buy.

I prefer to abolish our drug war and increase public transportation subsidies with drug money.

 

[Likkmee]

Doctors hook people on opioids. It's just business. Then they prescribe Tylenol to destroy your liver(more business). Notice most opes include secret names like paracetamol and other names so the retards don't know what it is ? Diclofenac is another doozie. The cholesterol meds are real winners too when a simple cup of oatmeal can fix the problem. Blood pressure meds are another. 3 cups of hibiscus tea a day and get your fat ass out of the chair. Blood pressure solved !

 

[Markle]

Doctors hook people on opioids. It's just business. Then they prescribe Tylenol to destroy your liver(more business). Notice most opes include secret names like paracetamol and other names so the retards don't know what it is ? Diclofenac is another doozie. The cholesterol meds are real winners too when a simple cup of oatmeal can fix the problem. Blood pressure meds are another. 3 cups of hibiscus tea a day and get your fat ass out of the chair. Blood pressure solved !

The real world totally escapes you. How does that happen?

 

[danielpalos]

Doctors hook people on opioids. It's just business. Then they prescribe Tylenol to destroy your liver(more business). Notice most opes include secret names like paracetamol and other names so the retards don't know what it is ? Diclofenac is another doozie. The cholesterol meds are real winners too when a simple cup of oatmeal can fix the problem. Blood pressure meds are another. 3 cups of hibiscus tea a day and get your fat ass out of the chair. Blood pressure solved !

i found that lemon leaf tea along with lemon balm and spearmint is helping one of our dogs skin condition due to flea allergy. their fur seems better as well.

 

[Blues Man]

No, but then again I'm not 20 years old looking to impress a girl or get accepted by the "in" crowd at work. That's how I started smoking cigarettes and I still can't quit.

For what it's worth, I can tell you how I quit after 31 years of smoking cigarettes.
In June of 2009, I had minor out-patient hernia surgery (lifting injury ) in which I was knocked out on anesthesia for an hour and when I came to, the surgeon told me I was having some trouble breathing during the hernia repair . He didn't ask me if I smoked (although I assume he knew I did) , he just gave me some inhalers and recommended that I see a 'respiratory specialist'. (all about the $)

Long story short, I used the inhalers for about a week while I was recovering from the operation and on pain meds, never went to a specialist, and then I just made the decision to finally make up my mind to quit for good.( after 2 weak, failed attempts before) So I chewed the nicotine gum for about 6 weeks and that was it. ( it took about 6 months before I was sure I could have a beer or smoke weed without wanting a cigarette, but I never looked back) -- July 4th will be 10 years.

Like drugs, everything is different depending on the person. For instance I tried different drugs when I was younger. Opioid products did nothing to me, but then again, I'm a beer man. For other people, one snort and your life is over after that point. There is no quitting.

I had a friend that decided to quit, and it bothered him for two days. After that, he never wanted another one. In fact he even hates the smell today. His brother (who also tried to quit repeatedly) still smokes, and he's not allowed to smoke in his house or his second job. He quit for about five months last year, but couldn't take it.

I knew another guy at a stop of ours who said he opened up a pack of cigarettes in the morning as he always did, and never touched them. It didn't bother him, but he carried that pack of cigarettes around for two years before he stopped. He said the habit to beat was carrying them around and not actually quitting smoking. At another stop of ours, a guy told me he quit for ten years. It bugged him the entire time, and one day at a bar, he bummed a cigarette off another patron, and went right back to smoking two packs a day as he did the day before he quit.

Like drugs, some people just can't quit I guess. I started at age 12 and I'm 58 now. It's one of the reasons I don't cut down drug users; because I'm not in their shoes. Just because I'll never get hooked doesn't mean there's something wrong with them, it's just how these poisons that we ingest work on people differently.

No one gets addicted after one use of anything.
Addiction takes time and repeated use to develop.

Oh no. That is completely wrong. Opioid addiction happens almost immediately. I've seen it with my own eyes. That's not to say somebody goes from straight to being a junkie overnight; that does take time. However the addiction (which simply means unable to stop) is there from snort one with certain people. It's the same way with severe alcoholics. They can't function without it. They didn't start out as casual or social drinkers. Most of the people with serious problems found love in booze from the first time they got drunk.

Bullshit.

I have had opioids on prescription multiple times after several different surgeries and I was never addicted in fact I didn't even use all the refills that were allowed and I still have some sitting in my medicine cabinet.

And addiction does not mean unable to stop.

Addiction is a physical dependence on a substance that results in withdrawal symptoms if the person stops taking that substance.

No one becomes an alcoholic after one drink either in fact alcohol addiction takes even longer to manifest than does addiction to other drugs and withdrawal from alcohol is more deadly than from opioids.

 

[the other mike]

No, but then again I'm not 20 years old looking to impress a girl or get accepted by the "in" crowd at work. That's how I started smoking cigarettes and I still can't quit.

For what it's worth, I can tell you how I quit after 31 years of smoking cigarettes.
In June of 2009, I had minor out-patient hernia surgery (lifting injury ) in which I was knocked out on anesthesia for an hour and when I came to, the surgeon told me I was having some trouble breathing during the hernia repair . He didn't ask me if I smoked (although I assume he knew I did) , he just gave me some inhalers and recommended that I see a 'respiratory specialist'. (all about the $)

Long story short, I used the inhalers for about a week while I was recovering from the operation and on pain meds, never went to a specialist, and then I just made the decision to finally make up my mind to quit for good.( after 2 weak, failed attempts before) So I chewed the nicotine gum for about 6 weeks and that was it. ( it took about 6 months before I was sure I could have a beer or smoke weed without wanting a cigarette, but I never looked back) -- July 4th will be 10 years.

Like drugs, everything is different depending on the person. For instance I tried different drugs when I was younger. Opioid products did nothing to me, but then again, I'm a beer man. For other people, one snort and your life is over after that point. There is no quitting.

I had a friend that decided to quit, and it bothered him for two days. After that, he never wanted another one. In fact he even hates the smell today. His brother (who also tried to quit repeatedly) still smokes, and he's not allowed to smoke in his house or his second job. He quit for about five months last year, but couldn't take it.

I knew another guy at a stop of ours who said he opened up a pack of cigarettes in the morning as he always did, and never touched them. It didn't bother him, but he carried that pack of cigarettes around for two years before he stopped. He said the habit to beat was carrying them around and not actually quitting smoking. At another stop of ours, a guy told me he quit for ten years. It bugged him the entire time, and one day at a bar, he bummed a cigarette off another patron, and went right back to smoking two packs a day as he did the day before he quit.

Like drugs, some people just can't quit I guess. I started at age 12 and I'm 58 now. It's one of the reasons I don't cut down drug users; because I'm not in their shoes. Just because I'll never get hooked doesn't mean there's something wrong with them, it's just how these poisons that we ingest work on people differently.

No one gets addicted after one use of anything.
Addiction takes time and repeated use to develop.

Oh no. That is completely wrong. Opioid addiction happens almost immediately. I've seen it with my own eyes. That's not to say somebody goes from straight to being a junkie overnight; that does take time. However the addiction (which simply means unable to stop) is there from snort one with certain people. It's the same way with severe alcoholics. They can't function without it. They didn't start out as casual or social drinkers. Most of the people with serious problems found love in booze from the first time they got drunk.

Bullshit.

I have had opioids on prescription multiple times after several different surgeries and I was never addicted in fact I didn't even use all the refills that were allowed and I still have some sitting in my medicine cabinet.

And addiction does not mean unable to stop.

Addiction is a physical dependence on a substance that results in withdrawal symptoms if the person stops taking that substance.

No one becomes an alcoholic after one drink either in fact alcohol addiction takes even longer to manifest than does addiction to other drugs and withdrawal from alcohol is more deadly than from opioids.

I'm sure in 50 years we'll look back and have all the answers on how to control addictive behavior patterns and treat mental health disorders that lead to addictive personality issues and so on , but I can tell you the root of the 'opioid crisis' is greed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, but then again I'm not 20 years old looking to impress a girl or get accepted by the "in" crowd at work. That's how I started smoking cigarettes and I still can't quit.

For what it's worth, I can tell you how I quit after 31 years of smoking cigarettes.
In June of 2009, I had minor out-patient hernia surgery (lifting injury ) in which I was knocked out on anesthesia for an hour and when I came to, the surgeon told me I was having some trouble breathing during the hernia repair . He didn't ask me if I smoked (although I assume he knew I did) , he just gave me some inhalers and recommended that I see a 'respiratory specialist'. (all about the $)

Long story short, I used the inhalers for about a week while I was recovering from the operation and on pain meds, never went to a specialist, and then I just made the decision to finally make up my mind to quit for good.( after 2 weak, failed attempts before) So I chewed the nicotine gum for about 6 weeks and that was it. ( it took about 6 months before I was sure I could have a beer or smoke weed without wanting a cigarette, but I never looked back) -- July 4th will be 10 years.

Like drugs, everything is different depending on the person. For instance I tried different drugs when I was younger. Opioid products did nothing to me, but then again, I'm a beer man. For other people, one snort and your life is over after that point. There is no quitting.

I had a friend that decided to quit, and it bothered him for two days. After that, he never wanted another one. In fact he even hates the smell today. His brother (who also tried to quit repeatedly) still smokes, and he's not allowed to smoke in his house or his second job. He quit for about five months last year, but couldn't take it.

I knew another guy at a stop of ours who said he opened up a pack of cigarettes in the morning as he always did, and never touched them. It didn't bother him, but he carried that pack of cigarettes around for two years before he stopped. He said the habit to beat was carrying them around and not actually quitting smoking. At another stop of ours, a guy told me he quit for ten years. It bugged him the entire time, and one day at a bar, he bummed a cigarette off another patron, and went right back to smoking two packs a day as he did the day before he quit.

Like drugs, some people just can't quit I guess. I started at age 12 and I'm 58 now. It's one of the reasons I don't cut down drug users; because I'm not in their shoes. Just because I'll never get hooked doesn't mean there's something wrong with them, it's just how these poisons that we ingest work on people differently.

No one gets addicted after one use of anything.
Addiction takes time and repeated use to develop.

Oh no. That is completely wrong. Opioid addiction happens almost immediately. I've seen it with my own eyes. That's not to say somebody goes from straight to being a junkie overnight; that does take time. However the addiction (which simply means unable to stop) is there from snort one with certain people. It's the same way with severe alcoholics. They can't function without it. They didn't start out as casual or social drinkers. Most of the people with serious problems found love in booze from the first time they got drunk.

Bullshit.

I have had opioids on prescription multiple times after several different surgeries and I was never addicted in fact I didn't even use all the refills that were allowed and I still have some sitting in my medicine cabinet.

And addiction does not mean unable to stop.

Addiction is a physical dependence on a substance that results in withdrawal symptoms if the person stops taking that substance.

No one becomes an alcoholic after one drink either in fact alcohol addiction takes even longer to manifest than does addiction to other drugs and withdrawal from alcohol is more deadly than from opioids.

I didn't say everybody, I said certain people. I've had plenty of opioid products in my time for medical reasons, and in every case, once I was able to be comfortable with the remaining pain, I threw them away. But that's not everybody.

You think of addiction as being strung out. I think of addiction as a necessity be it one drink or one snort every few days. Sure, it metastasizes as time goes on until you are using a lot of "whatever" but that's only because you can't get the same high as the original one that got you started. And addiction is more mental and chemical than physical.

It reminds me of a time when I was dating this girl. She was a non-smoker. She didn't care all that much if I smoked, but like any non-smoker, they rather you not. So she proposed an idea one evening. She asked if we could watch television without me smoking? I agreed, but told her at a cost. She would have to quit chewing gum. She chewed gum like a horse. I swear she went through ten packs a day. But she agreed to the deal and said it would be no problem.

About an hour and a half went by, and I was really getting the urge for a cigarette. She got up to go to the kitchen and asked if I wanted something to drink, to which I replied I didn't. She came back with her drink, an ashtray, and a huge pack of gum.

 

[WEATHER53]

There is no instant addiction. The psychological and physical aspects of it take a certain volume of the item to produce an addictive effect.
It’s more reefer madness talk and frankly some of the poster that I always agree with here are simply off base on this one.

 

[the other mike]

There is no instant addiction. The psychological and physical aspects of it take a certain volume of the item to produce an addictive effect.
It’s more reefer madness talk and frankly some of the poster that I always agree with here are simply off base on this one.

I agree with the exception of crack babies who are born addicts
waiting for that first hit off the pipe at 13.

 

[Markle]

Bullshit.

I have had opioids on prescription multiple times after several different surgeries and I was never addicted in fact I didn't even use all the refills that were allowed and I still have some sitting in my medicine cabinet.

And addiction does not mean unable to stop.

Addiction is a physical dependence on a substance that results in withdrawal symptoms if the person stops taking that substance.

No one becomes an alcoholic after one drink either in fact alcohol addiction takes even longer to manifest than does addiction to other drugs and withdrawal from alcohol is more deadly than from opioids.

You are dangerously misinformed.

Addiction is both a physical and psychological addiction. Withdrawal from opioids and crystal meth are as dangerous to withdraw from as is alcohol. All can be fatal during withdrawal.

In my opinion, the vast majority of doctors are not responsible for the opioid crisis. Like every profession, I believe that there are relatively few bad apples. I also don't believe that the vast majority of people become addicted due to one prescription of painkillers.

 

[Kondor3]

It’s no secret that the U.S. incarcerates a shocking number of swaths of its own people, primarily the poor and people of color. With 2.3 million Americans currently being held in prisons, the country has the largest prison population in the world. But even as awareness of mass incarceration grows, two crucial questions remain at the heart of the debate on prison reform: Why does the U.S. imprison so many people, and how do we change our toxic approach? These are the issues Tony Platt, author of “Beyond These Walls: Rethinking Crime and Punishment in the United States,” and Truthdig Editor in Chief Robert Scheer discuss in the latest installment of “Scheer Intelligence.”

(snip)....There’s a tendency these days for people to say the United States proportionally incarcerates more people than any other country in the world. I don’t know if that’s true. I just don’t think we know what the real situation is in China and Russia, which are the big competitors in incarceration. I think the U.S. is in the ballpark; I think the U.S. is close. When you compare the U.S. with Canada or Australia or New Zealand, or France and England, then there’s no contest. There’s no other country that’s comparable to the United States in terms of its political economy that puts as many people away, that hires as many cops, and invests as much money in repression as this country does.

CONTINUED---https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-liberal-betrayal-of-americas-most-vulnerable/

If every American had to do 30 days to get a taste of what it's like inside, we would put an end to this mass incarceration real fast. You don't realize how bad it is until it happens to someone close to you. Out of sight- out of mind....2.3 million forgotten souls living in hell.

Don't wanna go to jail?

Don't break the law.

--------

2.3 million inmates is still a helluva lot less than 1% of the US population.

How does the US stack up against the rest of the world proportionally?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Bullshit.

I have had opioids on prescription multiple times after several different surgeries and I was never addicted in fact I didn't even use all the refills that were allowed and I still have some sitting in my medicine cabinet.

And addiction does not mean unable to stop.

Addiction is a physical dependence on a substance that results in withdrawal symptoms if the person stops taking that substance.

No one becomes an alcoholic after one drink either in fact alcohol addiction takes even longer to manifest than does addiction to other drugs and withdrawal from alcohol is more deadly than from opioids.

You are dangerously misinformed.

Addiction is both a physical and psychological addiction. Withdrawal from opioids and crystal meth are as dangerous to withdraw from as is alcohol. All can be fatal during withdrawal.

In my opinion, the vast majority of doctors are not responsible for the opioid crisis. Like every profession, I believe that there are relatively few bad apples. I also don't believe that the vast majority of people become addicted due to one prescription of painkillers.

Years ago when the stuff wasn't so ready available, people who did develop an addiction to prescriptions got professional help right away. Today, if somebody gets addicted, they go out into the streets to continue their addiction.

We can approach this problem in many different ways, but nothing will stop it until we find a way to stop the flow of drugs coming into this country, and the southern border wall is the first step. As supply and demand dictates, the less supply, the more it costs to obtain a product.

 

[the other mike]

We can approach this problem in many different ways, but nothing will stop it until we find a way to stop the flow of drugs coming into this country, and the southern border wall is the first step. .

Most of the opium ( or any other drugs ) doesn't come in across the
southern border.

 

[the other mike]

Don't wanna go to jail?

Don't break the law.

--------

2.3 million inmates is still a helluva lot less than 1% of the US population.

How does the US stack up against the rest of the world proportionally?

Does that go for the government too ? Usually not.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We can approach this problem in many different ways, but nothing will stop it until we find a way to stop the flow of drugs coming into this country, and the southern border wall is the first step. .

Most of the opium ( or any other drugs ) doesn't come in across the
southern border.




View attachment 260589

Well the first video shows an ambulance chaser that didn't really accomplish much of anything. The money awarded from that tobacco lawsuit was used and abused by the states including mine; some of them using the money for anything but tobacco addiction or treatment. If I remember correctly, his take for his services was over a billion dollars.

Most heroin in U.S. now comes across Mexican border, Rob Portman says

Our ruling

Portman said that heroin is coming to the United States primarily from Mexico. He hasn’t been studying drug facts for nothing.

We rate this claim True.

 

[the other mike]

Federal prosecutors charged drug distributor Rochester Drug Cooperative and its former CEO with drug trafficking charges Tuesday -- the first criminal charges for a pharmaceutical company and executives in the nation's ongoing opioid crisis.

First criminal charges for a pharma distributor and CEO

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Federal prosecutors charged drug distributor Rochester Drug Cooperative and its former CEO with drug trafficking charges Tuesday -- the first criminal charges for a pharmaceutical company and executives in the nation's ongoing opioid crisis.

First criminal charges for a pharma distributor and CEO

I have a friend I knew for many years. In fact we lived together for about a year. She's ill now, on disability, and spends a lot of time in pain. About a year or so ago, she went to get her pain medications, and they cut them in half.

Because of liability, doctors and manufacturers are now very timid about dispensing these pain medications. I understand their goal which is not people who actually need them, but they end up being the casualties of war.

I've read similar stories about the same thing with other people. So now millions suffer while trial lawyers are getting rich, and yet our opioid death rate keeps increasing.

Suing the manufacturers of these medications is not the way to go about this, no more than suing the gun industries for shootings.

 

[the other mike]

Federal prosecutors charged drug distributor Rochester Drug Cooperative and its former CEO with drug trafficking charges Tuesday -- the first criminal charges for a pharmaceutical company and executives in the nation's ongoing opioid crisis.

First criminal charges for a pharma distributor and CEO

I have a friend I knew for many years. In fact we lived together for about a year. She's ill now, on disability, and spends a lot of time in pain. About a year or so ago, she went to get her pain medications, and they cut them in half.

Because of liability, doctors and manufacturers are now very timid about dispensing these pain medications. I understand their goal which is not people who actually need them, but they end up being the casualties of war.

I've read similar stories about the same thing with other people. So now millions suffer while trial lawyers are getting rich, and yet our opioid death rate keeps increasing.

Suing the manufacturers of these medications is not the way to go about this, no more than suing the gun industries for shootings.

This wasn't a lawsuit. It was DEA/FBI operation.