Why I Am Not A Christian

[Madeline]

Why would anyone need to join the southern baptists, methodist, lutherans, episcopalians, etc. before they could accurately observe their conduct and beliefs?

 

[Frank]

Why would anyone need to join the southern baptists, methodist, lutherans, episcopalians, etc. before they could accurately observe their conduct and beliefs?

Huh? I've responded to your questions, but this one I simply do not understand.

 

[Anguille]

Now you're being dishonest, Sky. I have never once said what they did was okay. You're completely missing my point. The Catholic Church does not officially in any capacity ever promote the sexual molestation of children, it was not taught in their church. A lot of people did a lot of work to cover up what was going on, which meant that they knew it was wrong. Ang tried to insinuate that the raping of children was part and parcel of what the Catholic church taught whenever I made the comment that raping children was not taught by Christianity, the catholic church, or was Jesus taught in the Bible. It has nothing to do with religion, it was a blatant act of exactly the opposite. That it happened in places of worship by people who are supposed to represent christians is abhorent. Tell me why the stigma of suicide bombings and terrorist attacks never seems to stick to the entire religion of Islam, yet the Catholic church's crimes always seem to speak to the whole of christianity to people like you?

I take exception to being called dishonest. I have my point of view and you have yours. That's all. The Church as an institution supported and covered up for pedophile priests. This was policy from bishops on down.

You cannot separate the religious institution from the religion. The Church aided and abetted criminal acts as common policy. The Church harbored and protected pedophiles placing the value of the sick priest over the innocence of children.

Yes, you can. First, and YET AGAIN, the Catholic church does not represent ALL of Christianity. Second, people are not perfect. People sin. That does NOT condemn the teachings of Christ.

The Catholic church does not represent all of Christianity, as you say. but you must realize that it represents a large part of it for many people.

 

[Frank]

I take exception to being called dishonest. I have my point of view and you have yours. That's all. The Church as an institution supported and covered up for pedophile priests. This was policy from bishops on down.

You cannot separate the religious institution from the religion. The Church aided and abetted criminal acts as common policy. The Church harbored and protected pedophiles placing the value of the sick priest over the innocence of children.

Yes, you can. First, and YET AGAIN, the Catholic church does not represent ALL of Christianity. Second, people are not perfect. People sin. That does NOT condemn the teachings of Christ.

The Catholic church does not represent all of Christianity, as you say. but you must realize that it represents a large part of it for many people.

No, it does not. Perhaps that some of our frustration with this whole thread in that ALL of Christianity is painted with the broad strokes of the Catholic brush.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Now you're being dishonest, Sky. I have never once said what they did was okay. You're completely missing my point. The Catholic Church does not officially in any capacity ever promote the sexual molestation of children, it was not taught in their church. A lot of people did a lot of work to cover up what was going on, which meant that they knew it was wrong. Ang tried to insinuate that the raping of children was part and parcel of what the Catholic church taught whenever I made the comment that raping children was not taught by Christianity, the catholic church, or was Jesus taught in the Bible. It has nothing to do with religion, it was a blatant act of exactly the opposite. That it happened in places of worship by people who are supposed to represent christians is abhorent. Tell me why the stigma of suicide bombings and terrorist attacks never seems to stick to the entire religion of Islam, yet the Catholic church's crimes always seem to speak to the whole of christianity to people like you?

I take exception to being called dishonest. I have my point of view and you have yours. That's all. The Church as an institution supported and covered up for pedophile priests. This was policy from bishops on down.

You cannot separate the religious institution from the religion. The Church aided and abetted criminal acts as common policy. The Church harbored and protected pedophiles placing the value of the sick priest over the innocence of children.

Yes, you can. First, and YET AGAIN, the Catholic church does not represent ALL of Christianity. Second, people are not perfect. People sin. That does NOT condemn the teachings of Christ.

No one is condemning all of Christianity or the teachings of Christ. We can honestly say the institutions of Christianity--Catholic Church, as an example, case in point, have committed wrongs and should be held accountable for it.

 

[Frank]

I take exception to being called dishonest. I have my point of view and you have yours. That's all. The Church as an institution supported and covered up for pedophile priests. This was policy from bishops on down.

You cannot separate the religious institution from the religion. The Church aided and abetted criminal acts as common policy. The Church harbored and protected pedophiles placing the value of the sick priest over the innocence of children.

Yes, you can. First, and YET AGAIN, the Catholic church does not represent ALL of Christianity. Second, people are not perfect. People sin. That does NOT condemn the teachings of Christ.

No one is condemning all of Christianity or the teachings of Christ. We can honestly say the institutions of Christianity--Catholic Church, as an example, case in point, have committed wrongs and should be held accountable for it.

And to that, I agree. But what should be held accountable are the individuals and the institution that sinned, not the religion. And furthermore, from what I have read, "catholic" and "christian" have been used interchangably throughout this thread. My participation in this discussion, to no avail I may add, has been to distinguish between them and to answer questions about "christianity" as I have been taught and understand.

 

[Newby]

You have to be ignoring a lot of evidence to make this claim. The Catholic Church as an institution knew it had pedophile priests and the Church protected those priests by shipping them around from parish to parish spreading the pedophilia around.

I can't believe you think that's ok.

Now you're being dishonest, Sky. I have never once said what they did was okay. You're completely missing my point. The Catholic Church does not officially in any capacity ever promote the sexual molestation of children, it was not taught in their church. A lot of people did a lot of work to cover up what was going on, which meant that they knew it was wrong. Ang tried to insinuate that the raping of children was part and parcel of what the Catholic church taught whenever I made the comment that raping children was not taught by Christianity, the catholic church, or was Jesus taught in the Bible. It has nothing to do with religion, it was a blatant act of exactly the opposite. That it happened in places of worship by people who are supposed to represent christians is abhorent. Tell me why the stigma of suicide bombings and terrorist attacks never seems to stick to the entire religion of Islam, yet the Catholic church's crimes always seem to speak to the whole of christianity to people like you?

Only a former clergy would really know, Newby. But examine a few Catholic attitudes:

Priests are God's emmisaries on Earth. Judging and controlling them is the exclusive province of Church hierarchy. People cannot parish-shop; they have to attend Mass etc. in the parish where they live.

Women and little girls are the source of all sexual temptation and in fact, the source of original sin.

Females are defective.

Anything is better than renouncing one's vows and getting married; for that, you get ex-communicated.

Masturbation is a sin.

Etc.

I could go on, but I think you take my point. It's my opinion that clergy with celibacy issues were encouraged sub rosa to consider abusing children as a viable alternative.

That's all really nice, but none of that comports with the teachings of Jesus Christ, aka, Christianity.

 

[Frank]

Now you're being dishonest, Sky. I have never once said what they did was okay. You're completely missing my point. The Catholic Church does not officially in any capacity ever promote the sexual molestation of children, it was not taught in their church. A lot of people did a lot of work to cover up what was going on, which meant that they knew it was wrong. Ang tried to insinuate that the raping of children was part and parcel of what the Catholic church taught whenever I made the comment that raping children was not taught by Christianity, the catholic church, or was Jesus taught in the Bible. It has nothing to do with religion, it was a blatant act of exactly the opposite. That it happened in places of worship by people who are supposed to represent christians is abhorent. Tell me why the stigma of suicide bombings and terrorist attacks never seems to stick to the entire religion of Islam, yet the Catholic church's crimes always seem to speak to the whole of christianity to people like you?

Only a former clergy would really know, Newby. But examine a few Catholic attitudes:

Priests are God's emmisaries on Earth. Judging and controlling them is the exclusive province of Church hierarchy. People cannot parish-shop; they have to attend Mass etc. in the parish where they live.

Women and little girls are the source of all sexual temptation and in fact, the source of original sin.

Females are defective.

Anything is better than renouncing one's vows and getting married; for that, you get ex-communicated.

Masturbation is a sin.

Etc.

I could go on, but I think you take my point. It's my opinion that clergy with celibacy issues were encouraged sub rosa to consider abusing children as a viable alternative.

That's all really nice, but none of that comports with the teachings of Jesus Christ, aka, Christianity.

Newby, they aren't "getting it".....

 

[Newby]

Why would anyone need to join the southern baptists, methodist, lutherans, episcopalians, etc. before they could accurately observe their conduct and beliefs?

Because you don't learn what their beliefs are or see what their conduct is unless you attend their services. Are you now going to claim that you've done that as well?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Now you're being dishonest, Sky. I have never once said what they did was okay. You're completely missing my point. The Catholic Church does not officially in any capacity ever promote the sexual molestation of children, it was not taught in their church. A lot of people did a lot of work to cover up what was going on, which meant that they knew it was wrong. Ang tried to insinuate that the raping of children was part and parcel of what the Catholic church taught whenever I made the comment that raping children was not taught by Christianity, the catholic church, or was Jesus taught in the Bible. It has nothing to do with religion, it was a blatant act of exactly the opposite. That it happened in places of worship by people who are supposed to represent christians is abhorent. Tell me why the stigma of suicide bombings and terrorist attacks never seems to stick to the entire religion of Islam, yet the Catholic church's crimes always seem to speak to the whole of christianity to people like you?

Only a former clergy would really know, Newby. But examine a few Catholic attitudes:

Priests are God's emmisaries on Earth. Judging and controlling them is the exclusive province of Church hierarchy. People cannot parish-shop; they have to attend Mass etc. in the parish where they live.

Women and little girls are the source of all sexual temptation and in fact, the source of original sin.

Females are defective.

Anything is better than renouncing one's vows and getting married; for that, you get ex-communicated.

Masturbation is a sin.

Etc.

I could go on, but I think you take my point. It's my opinion that clergy with celibacy issues were encouraged sub rosa to consider abusing children as a viable alternative.

That's all really nice, but none of that comports with the teachings of Jesus Christ, aka, Christianity.

It speaks to Madeline's reasons for rejecting Christianity which is what this thread is all about.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Only a former clergy would really know, Newby. But examine a few Catholic attitudes:

Priests are God's emmisaries on Earth. Judging and controlling them is the exclusive province of Church hierarchy. People cannot parish-shop; they have to attend Mass etc. in the parish where they live.

Women and little girls are the source of all sexual temptation and in fact, the source of original sin.

Females are defective.

Anything is better than renouncing one's vows and getting married; for that, you get ex-communicated.

Masturbation is a sin.

Etc.

I could go on, but I think you take my point. It's my opinion that clergy with celibacy issues were encouraged sub rosa to consider abusing children as a viable alternative.

That's all really nice, but none of that comports with the teachings of Jesus Christ, aka, Christianity.

Newby, they aren't "getting it".....

What am I personally not getting Frank?

 

[Newby]

I take exception to being called dishonest. I have my point of view and you have yours. That's all. The Church as an institution supported and covered up for pedophile priests. This was policy from bishops on down.

You cannot separate the religious institution from the religion. The Church aided and abetted criminal acts as common policy. The Church harbored and protected pedophiles placing the value of the sick priest over the innocence of children.

Yes, you can. First, and YET AGAIN, the Catholic church does not represent ALL of Christianity. Second, people are not perfect. People sin. That does NOT condemn the teachings of Christ.

No one is condemning all of Christianity or the teachings of Christ. We can honestly say the institutions of Christianity--Catholic Church, as an example, case in point, have committed wrongs and should be held accountable for it.

The thread title does not state 'Why I am not a Catholic' and then lists in the op all the vile reasons the author is not a Catholic. It clearly says 'Christian'.

 

[Newby]

Only a former clergy would really know, Newby. But examine a few Catholic attitudes:

Priests are God's emmisaries on Earth. Judging and controlling them is the exclusive province of Church hierarchy. People cannot parish-shop; they have to attend Mass etc. in the parish where they live.

Women and little girls are the source of all sexual temptation and in fact, the source of original sin.

Females are defective.

Anything is better than renouncing one's vows and getting married; for that, you get ex-communicated.

Masturbation is a sin.

Etc.

I could go on, but I think you take my point. It's my opinion that clergy with celibacy issues were encouraged sub rosa to consider abusing children as a viable alternative.

That's all really nice, but none of that comports with the teachings of Jesus Christ, aka, Christianity.

It speaks to Madeline's reasons for rejecting Christianity which is what this thread is all about.

No, this thread is about why she rejected Catholicism, or are you all just going to continue to pretend they're one and the same even tho it's been pointed out ad nauseum they are not.

 

[Sky Dancer]

That's all really nice, but none of that comports with the teachings of Jesus Christ, aka, Christianity.

It speaks to Madeline's reasons for rejecting Christianity which is what this thread is all about.

No, this thread is about why she rejected Catholicism, or are you all just going to continue to pretend they're one and the same even tho it's been pointed out ad nauseum they are not.

Last time I checked the Catholic Church is considered a Christian denomination. It considers itself the original Christian Church. It's as Christian as you get.

 

[Newby]

It speaks to Madeline's reasons for rejecting Christianity which is what this thread is all about.

No, this thread is about why she rejected Catholicism, or are you all just going to continue to pretend they're one and the same even tho it's been pointed out ad nauseum they are not.

Last time I checked the Catholic Church is considered Christian.

So that makes it represent all of christianity in your eyes? Like I've asked already and not been answered, does that make suicide bombers represent the teaching of all of Islam then?

 

[Frank]

That's all really nice, but none of that comports with the teachings of Jesus Christ, aka, Christianity.

Newby, they aren't "getting it".....

What am I personally not getting Frank?

I did not reference you directly. Moreso to those who cannot differentiate between the two. And honestly, I feel it's a shame that opinions based on say the "catholic" experiences have prompted some to condemn Christianity as a whole.

 

[Newby]

It speaks to Madeline's reasons for rejecting Christianity which is what this thread is all about.

No, this thread is about why she rejected Catholicism, or are you all just going to continue to pretend they're one and the same even tho it's been pointed out ad nauseum they are not.

Last time I checked the Catholic Church is considered a Christian denomination. It considers itself the original Christian Church. It's as Christian as you get.

Jesus Christ and His teachings are the original Christian church. Why are you so hell bound to associate all of Christianity with the Catholic church?

 

[Frank]

It speaks to Madeline's reasons for rejecting Christianity which is what this thread is all about.

No, this thread is about why she rejected Catholicism, or are you all just going to continue to pretend they're one and the same even tho it's been pointed out ad nauseum they are not.

Last time I checked the Catholic Church is considered a Christian denomination. It considers itself the original Christian Church. It's as Christian as you get.

No it's not. At least not in my book. There are things that the Catholic church do that I seriously disagree with in regards to Christianity.

 

[Sky Dancer]

No, this thread is about why she rejected Catholicism, or are you all just going to continue to pretend they're one and the same even tho it's been pointed out ad nauseum they are not.

Last time I checked the Catholic Church is considered Christian.

So that makes it represent all of christianity in your eyes? Like I've asked already and not been answered, does that make suicide bombers represent the teaching of all of Islam then?[/QUOT



Stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say the Catholic Church represents all of Christianity.

In the case of the pedophile priests you have bishops interpreting Church doctrine to mean they need to protect pedophile priests at all costs. That's the truth of how it was.

 

[Sky Dancer]

No, this thread is about why she rejected Catholicism, or are you all just going to continue to pretend they're one and the same even tho it's been pointed out ad nauseum they are not.

Last time I checked the Catholic Church is considered a Christian denomination. It considers itself the original Christian Church. It's as Christian as you get.

No it's not. At least not in my book. There are things that the Catholic church do that I seriously disagree with in regards to Christianity.

Good for you. The Catholic Church considers itself the orignal Church of the apostles.