Why I Am Not A Christian

[Newby]

How do I explain that many people have not experienced the Catholic Church as anti-female or anti-sex? I don't need to. We've all had different experiences. You, Madeline and I were all raised Catholics and we each left the Catholic Church for different reasons.

Why would Madeline comment on Islam instead of Christianity? She wasn't raised a Muslim and the Islamic faith was not central to her spiritual path.

I find it odd that one would sit in judgment of a religion because it is supposedly anti-female and anti-sex, yet not make one comment about the religion that actually meets those two criteria in spades. It says to me there's another agenda in place, it's not about anti-female or anti-sex, it's about anti-christianity. I have more respect for the people that just come out and say it rather than trying to hide behind some sad childhood story.

Come on Newby, be honest. You have no respect for Madeline's experience.

To be honest with you Sky, I don't believe her story, I think most of it is made up.

 

[Madeline]

Newby wrote:

That's pure bullshit. You're telling me if an uncle is raping you and telling you it's okay and to not tell anyone else in the family and taking advantage of his role in your life, that that's better than some priest who has limited access and authority over you? Give me a break.

I'm not the one minimizing it, you're the one trying to make it more deviant or worse than any other situation where a trusted adult is sexually abusing a child, and that's bullshit.

I'm not in the habit of dismissing anyone's pain by decreeing that it is not as severe as someone else's IMO.

 

[Anguille]

Is that different than being raped by your stepfather, your brother's friend, your uncle, or any other male that had even more trust than any priest in your life? How is that Christianity's fault or even associated with 'religion'? Was the priest acting in a way that comported with what the church taught? Was the priest acting in a way that comported with what Jesus taught? Absolutely not.

Obviously, since it's become known that the Catholic church protected priests who were/are child rapists.

I see, so the your contention is that the church actually taught their priests to rape children, that they preached this to their congregation? It was out in the open and everyone knew about it? Why would they need to 'protect' them if it was just a part of the church doctrine as you are so pitifully trying to claim here?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Newby wrote:

Is that different than being raped by your stepfather, your brother's friend, your uncle, or any other male that had even more trust than any priest in your life? How is that Christianity's fault or even associated with 'religion'? Was the priest acting in a way that comported with what the church taught? Was the priest acting in a way that comported with what Jesus taught? Absolutely not.

Yes it is different, Newby, and I bet you know that. It does not take a long ponder to realize that there's a great deal more room for mind-fucking when the abuser is clergy and the victim is Catholic. Then there's the entirety of the RCC's conduct, denying care to victims, shielding their property, taking depositions that reduced victims to tears, electing a pontiff with dirty hands, etc. etc. etc. I cannot believe anyone would even try to defend/excuse/minimize the RCC's history of sexually abusing children.

That's pure bullshit. You're telling me if an uncle is raping you and telling you it's okay and to not tell anyone else in the family and taking advantage of his role in your life, that that's better than some priest who has limited access and authority over you? Give me a break.

I'm not the one minimizing it, you're the one trying to make it more deviant or worse than any other situation where a trusted adult is sexually abusing a child, and that's bullshit.

IMO a priest raping a child is a worse offense because it not only violate the child emotionally but alos damages the child spiritually.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I find it odd that one would sit in judgment of a religion because it is supposedly anti-female and anti-sex, yet not make one comment about the religion that actually meets those two criteria in spades. It says to me there's another agenda in place, it's not about anti-female or anti-sex, it's about anti-christianity. I have more respect for the people that just come out and say it rather than trying to hide behind some sad childhood story.

Come on Newby, be honest. You have no respect for Madeline's experience.

To be honest with you Sky, I don't believe her story, I think most of it is made up.

Thanks for admitting that. I believe her. I have had my own journey of leaving Catholicism and finding Buddhism. Why would I doubt anothers?

 

[Madeline]

I see, so the your contention is that the church actually taught their priests to rape children, that they preached this to their congregation? It was out in the open and everyone knew about it? Why would they need to 'protect' them if it was just a part of the church doctrine as you are so pitifully trying to claim here?

You have to be ignoring a lot of evidence to make this claim. The Catholic Church as an institution knew it had pedophile priests and the Church protected those priests by shipping them around from parish to parish spreading the pedophilia around.

I can't believe you think that's ok.

The Catholic church does NOT represent ALL of Christianity.

Frank, it doesn't matter. Choose any mainstream sect you like -- they all have struggled with anti-female and anti-sex attitudes and while some have done better in overcoming them, the majority have not IMO.

 

[Frank]

You have to be ignoring a lot of evidence to make this claim. The Catholic Church as an institution knew it had pedophile priests and the Church protected those priests by shipping them around from parish to parish spreading the pedophilia around.

I can't believe you think that's ok.

The Catholic church does NOT represent ALL of Christianity.

Frank, it doesn't matter. Choose any mainstream sect you like -- they all have struggled with anti-female and anti-sex attitudes and while some have done better in overcoming them, the majority have not IMO.

And answered that earlier. You just haven't responded.

 

[Anguille]

I find it odd that one would sit in judgment of a religion because it is supposedly anti-female and anti-sex, yet not make one comment about the religion that actually meets those two criteria in spades. It says to me there's another agenda in place, it's not about anti-female or anti-sex, it's about anti-christianity. I have more respect for the people that just come out and say it rather than trying to hide behind some sad childhood story.

Come on Newby, be honest. You have no respect for Madeline's experience.

To be honest with you Sky, I don't believe her story, I think most of it is made up.

I think yours is invented.

 

[Newby]

Obviously, since it's become known that the Catholic church protected priests who were/are child rapists.

I see, so the your contention is that the church actually taught their priests to rape children, that they preached this to their congregation? It was out in the open and everyone knew about it? Why would they need to 'protect' them if it was just a part of the church doctrine as you are so pitifully trying to claim here?

You have to be ignoring a lot of evidence to make this claim. The Catholic Church as an institution knew it had pedophile priests and the Church protected those priests by shipping them around from parish to parish spreading the pedophilia around.

I can't believe you think that's ok.

Now you're being dishonest, Sky. I have never once said what they did was okay. You're completely missing my point. The Catholic Church does not officially in any capacity ever promote the sexual molestation of children, it was not taught in their church. A lot of people did a lot of work to cover up what was going on, which meant that they knew it was wrong. Ang tried to insinuate that the raping of children was part and parcel of what the Catholic church taught whenever I made the comment that raping children was not taught by Christianity, the catholic church, or was Jesus taught in the Bible. It has nothing to do with religion, it was a blatant act of exactly the opposite. That it happened in places of worship by people who are supposed to represent christians is abhorent. Tell me why the stigma of suicide bombings and terrorist attacks never seems to stick to the entire religion of Islam, yet the Catholic church's crimes always seem to speak to the whole of christianity to people like you?

 

[Newby]

Newby wrote:

That's pure bullshit. You're telling me if an uncle is raping you and telling you it's okay and to not tell anyone else in the family and taking advantage of his role in your life, that that's better than some priest who has limited access and authority over you? Give me a break.

I'm not the one minimizing it, you're the one trying to make it more deviant or worse than any other situation where a trusted adult is sexually abusing a child, and that's bullshit.

I'm not in the habit of dismissing anyone's pain by decreeing that it is not as severe as someone else's IMO.

Yet you did exactly that.

 

[Madeline]

Come on Newby, be honest. You have no respect for Madeline's experience.

To be honest with you Sky, I don't believe her story, I think most of it is made up.

Thanks for admitting that. I believe her.

I appreciate it as well, Newby. It most honest than Cecilie's allegations that she can diagnose on the 'net. The fact is, it's all true -- and much more.

Your POV is convenient, but Newby, do you simply not believe that Catholic orphanages once existed? Or do you think all the children raised in them have since died? Or that they all had a jolly good time?

In other words, this device may suit to shield you from the need to debate the substantive matters I have raised but only at the cost of pretending. IMO, if you have to pretend a lot to remain a faithful adherent of christianity, the price is too high.

 

[Newby]

Obviously, since it's become known that the Catholic church protected priests who were/are child rapists.

I see, so the your contention is that the church actually taught their priests to rape children, that they preached this to their congregation? It was out in the open and everyone knew about it? Why would they need to 'protect' them if it was just a part of the church doctrine as you are so pitifully trying to claim here?

Why don't you go back an honestly address that post, or can't you?

 

[Newby]

Yes it is different, Newby, and I bet you know that. It does not take a long ponder to realize that there's a great deal more room for mind-fucking when the abuser is clergy and the victim is Catholic. Then there's the entirety of the RCC's conduct, denying care to victims, shielding their property, taking depositions that reduced victims to tears, electing a pontiff with dirty hands, etc. etc. etc. I cannot believe anyone would even try to defend/excuse/minimize the RCC's history of sexually abusing children.

That's pure bullshit. You're telling me if an uncle is raping you and telling you it's okay and to not tell anyone else in the family and taking advantage of his role in your life, that that's better than some priest who has limited access and authority over you? Give me a break.

I'm not the one minimizing it, you're the one trying to make it more deviant or worse than any other situation where a trusted adult is sexually abusing a child, and that's bullshit.

IMO a priest raping a child is a worse offense because it not only violate the child emotionally but alos damages the child spiritually.

I can't believe that you would say a child raped by a priest is worse off than any other child raped by a trusted adult. That's pretty sad in my opinion.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I see, so the your contention is that the church actually taught their priests to rape children, that they preached this to their congregation? It was out in the open and everyone knew about it? Why would they need to 'protect' them if it was just a part of the church doctrine as you are so pitifully trying to claim here?

You have to be ignoring a lot of evidence to make this claim. The Catholic Church as an institution knew it had pedophile priests and the Church protected those priests by shipping them around from parish to parish spreading the pedophilia around.

I can't believe you think that's ok.

Now you're being dishonest, Sky. I have never once said what they did was okay. You're completely missing my point. The Catholic Church does not officially in any capacity ever promote the sexual molestation of children, it was not taught in their church. A lot of people did a lot of work to cover up what was going on, which meant that they knew it was wrong. Ang tried to insinuate that the raping of children was part and parcel of what the Catholic church taught whenever I made the comment that raping children was not taught by Christianity, the catholic church, or was Jesus taught in the Bible. It has nothing to do with religion, it was a blatant act of exactly the opposite. That it happened in places of worship by people who are supposed to represent christians is abhorent. Tell me why the stigma of suicide bombings and terrorist attacks never seems to stick to the entire religion of Islam, yet the Catholic church's crimes always seem to speak to the whole of christianity to people like you?

I take exception to being called dishonest. I have my point of view and you have yours. That's all. The Church as an institution supported and covered up for pedophile priests. This was policy from bishops on down.

You cannot separate the religious institution from the religion. The Church aided and abetted criminal acts as common policy. The Church harbored and protected pedophiles placing the value of the sick priest over the innocence of children.

 

[Newby]

You have to be ignoring a lot of evidence to make this claim. The Catholic Church as an institution knew it had pedophile priests and the Church protected those priests by shipping them around from parish to parish spreading the pedophilia around.

I can't believe you think that's ok.

The Catholic church does NOT represent ALL of Christianity.

Frank, it doesn't matter. Choose any mainstream sect you like -- they all have struggled with anti-female and anti-sex attitudes and while some have done better in overcoming them, the majority have not IMO.

How the hell would you know?

 

[Anguille]

I see, so the your contention is that the church actually taught their priests to rape children, that they preached this to their congregation? It was out in the open and everyone knew about it? Why would they need to 'protect' them if it was just a part of the church doctrine as you are so pitifully trying to claim here?

Why don't you go back an honestly address that post, or can't you?

Because you continue to put words in my mouth. You are not worth my time of day. You are a selfish prig who wants to hold onto her delusions at all costs. You are offensive to other posters. You try to derail threads and throw up red herrings. I have no respect for petty, not very original, very tiresome trolls like yourself.

 

[Newby]

You have to be ignoring a lot of evidence to make this claim. The Catholic Church as an institution knew it had pedophile priests and the Church protected those priests by shipping them around from parish to parish spreading the pedophilia around.

I can't believe you think that's ok.

Now you're being dishonest, Sky. I have never once said what they did was okay. You're completely missing my point. The Catholic Church does not officially in any capacity ever promote the sexual molestation of children, it was not taught in their church. A lot of people did a lot of work to cover up what was going on, which meant that they knew it was wrong. Ang tried to insinuate that the raping of children was part and parcel of what the Catholic church taught whenever I made the comment that raping children was not taught by Christianity, the catholic church, or was Jesus taught in the Bible. It has nothing to do with religion, it was a blatant act of exactly the opposite. That it happened in places of worship by people who are supposed to represent christians is abhorent. Tell me why the stigma of suicide bombings and terrorist attacks never seems to stick to the entire religion of Islam, yet the Catholic church's crimes always seem to speak to the whole of christianity to people like you?

I take exception to being called dishonest. I have my point of view and you have yours. That's all. The Church as an institution supported and covered up for pedophile priests. This was policy from bishops on down.

You cannot separate the religious institution from the religion. The Church aided and abetted criminal acts as common policy. The Church harbored and protected pedophiles placing the value of the sick priest over the innocence of children.

Well, I take extreme exception to someone insinuating that I think it's okay for priests to rape children, which is exactly what you said.

And you absolutely can separate the religion from the institution. They were not representing what Christianity is about with their actions. Are you saying that suicide bombers represent what Islam is all about then?

 

[Frank]

You have to be ignoring a lot of evidence to make this claim. The Catholic Church as an institution knew it had pedophile priests and the Church protected those priests by shipping them around from parish to parish spreading the pedophilia around.

I can't believe you think that's ok.

Now you're being dishonest, Sky. I have never once said what they did was okay. You're completely missing my point. The Catholic Church does not officially in any capacity ever promote the sexual molestation of children, it was not taught in their church. A lot of people did a lot of work to cover up what was going on, which meant that they knew it was wrong. Ang tried to insinuate that the raping of children was part and parcel of what the Catholic church taught whenever I made the comment that raping children was not taught by Christianity, the catholic church, or was Jesus taught in the Bible. It has nothing to do with religion, it was a blatant act of exactly the opposite. That it happened in places of worship by people who are supposed to represent christians is abhorent. Tell me why the stigma of suicide bombings and terrorist attacks never seems to stick to the entire religion of Islam, yet the Catholic church's crimes always seem to speak to the whole of christianity to people like you?

I take exception to being called dishonest. I have my point of view and you have yours. That's all. The Church as an institution supported and covered up for pedophile priests. This was policy from bishops on down.

You cannot separate the religious institution from the religion. The Church aided and abetted criminal acts as common policy. The Church harbored and protected pedophiles placing the value of the sick priest over the innocence of children.

Yes, you can. First, and YET AGAIN, the Catholic church does not represent ALL of Christianity. Second, people are not perfect. People sin. That does NOT condemn the teachings of Christ.

 

[Newby]

Why don't you go back an honestly address that post, or can't you?

Because you continue to put words in my mouth. You are not worth my time of day. You are a selfish prig who wants to hold onto her delusions at all costs. You are offensive to other posters. You try to derail threads and throw up red herrings. I have no respect for petty, not very original, very tiresome trolls like yourself.

Ditto. Don't go away mad, just go away.

 

[Madeline]

I see, so the your contention is that the church actually taught their priests to rape children, that they preached this to their congregation? It was out in the open and everyone knew about it? Why would they need to 'protect' them if it was just a part of the church doctrine as you are so pitifully trying to claim here?

You have to be ignoring a lot of evidence to make this claim. The Catholic Church as an institution knew it had pedophile priests and the Church protected those priests by shipping them around from parish to parish spreading the pedophilia around.

I can't believe you think that's ok.

Now you're being dishonest, Sky. I have never once said what they did was okay. You're completely missing my point. The Catholic Church does not officially in any capacity ever promote the sexual molestation of children, it was not taught in their church. A lot of people did a lot of work to cover up what was going on, which meant that they knew it was wrong. Ang tried to insinuate that the raping of children was part and parcel of what the Catholic church taught whenever I made the comment that raping children was not taught by Christianity, the catholic church, or was Jesus taught in the Bible. It has nothing to do with religion, it was a blatant act of exactly the opposite. That it happened in places of worship by people who are supposed to represent christians is abhorent. Tell me why the stigma of suicide bombings and terrorist attacks never seems to stick to the entire religion of Islam, yet the Catholic church's crimes always seem to speak to the whole of christianity to people like you?

Only a former clergy would really know, Newby. But examine a few Catholic attitudes:

Priests are God's emmisaries on Earth. Judging and controlling them is the exclusive province of Church hierarchy. People cannot parish-shop; they have to attend Mass etc. in the parish where they live.

Women and little girls are the source of all sexual temptation and in fact, the source of original sin.

Females are defective.

Anything is better than renouncing one's vows and getting married; for that, you get ex-communicated.

Masturbation is a sin.

Etc.

I could go on, but I think you take my point. It's my opinion that clergy with celibacy issues were encouraged sub rosa to consider abusing children as a viable alternative.