Why is gender-nonconformity bad? Alternatively, why must one's gender align with their sex?

[Dogmaphobe]

Sorry, you completely lost me this time.

I was not addressing you. It had nothing to do with you.

I was addressing Ringle, and I'm sure he gets it due to the reference HE made, not you.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

You must have tons of this garbage prepackaged ready to load don't you have any original thoughts of your own who's agenda are you carrying out? When you're talking about rights versus rights you have to weigh the consequences of your choices. I think it's much better possibly inconvenience some people rather than have bodies piling up. Unless you're looking for it I'm sure most women who met or seen transgendered people in their restrooms don't even realize it it's been going on for years if not centuries.

I wrote it on the spot and it does reflect my own thoughts.

This is the clean debate section and unlike you, I am treating it as such.

 

[BlackSand]

You are either one of the most obtuse persons I've ever met, or you just don't like the truth. I have stated the best course of action to save lives, sorry you think that's somehow an imposition to you.

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I didn't say anything was an imposition to me ... I keep stating just about everything you express is convoluted garbage ...

You don't understand that mutual respect is mutual.
It is when people accept their burden as theirs and respect the desires of others the same as their own.
You want to create special status for certain individuals and allow them leeway to better suit your grand plan for harmony.

Then you lie to yourself and pretend it's justified, because you would like things to be the way you want them.

.​

 

[Auld Phart]

Reminder: This is the Clean Debate Zone

 

[Meister]

Okay, you sound like such a wonderful person, sorry this issue is upsetting your little world. Like I said get over it. There are real problems in the world that if you want a pity party talk about them.

Maybe she doesn't want to play "Let's Pretend I'm a Girl" game. Have you ever thought of that?
The transgenders have a screw loose, they are the ones that aren't normal, not the women.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I've seen the same exact thoughts over and over, I don't think you came up with them by yourself or at the moment.

I suppose I should take it as a compliment that I wrote something that triggered you so thoroughly that you could only resort with a personal attack.

Did you miss the part where I said that transgendered people should be tolerated and treated with common courtesy? The fact that you demand SO much more than that only validates the other statements I made.

 

[Cecilie1200]

In 1964 I had to go to bone specialist in New York City so my mother planned out the day so we can go to the world's Fair first and then go see the doctor in the late afternoon. I was 13 years old at the time. At some point during the fair my mother had to go to the bathroom. Even at my young age I recognized a transvestite / transgender type woman go into the lady's room at the same time. When my mother came out of the restroom but she was smiling and she said she met the most wonderful woman in the lady's room and had a nice conversation. I know the truth of who she met but I never told her. She was never in any danger. If that person had gone into the men's room I'm certain she would have been harmed. Here in Omaha, we have a beautiful zoo. In some areas of the zoo with newer construction they have the men's room, women's room and a third called the family room. It is individualized and you can lock the door I'm glad they come up with this idea and if I was a transgender person I memorized and you were places that have such restrooms and use those whenever possible. It's a very good idea. One of the reasons I strongly support transgenders using the women's restrooms when they have to is because on a gay man. I am getting older and so I have to use the public restrooms more often when I go out I don't go out that much anymore but when I do. I have always purposely ignored the other men in the restroom, did my business and got out quickly. Men's rooms aren't like women's restrooms the men are called to one another, they do not talk, and try not to look at each other. It's not a friendly environment I don't know why. I'm sorry it inconveniences you but I don't think you're in much danger at all. I'm sure you have articles on women being attacked by transgender people's in bathrooms but rarely if ever happens or it happens to be a straight guy who's just crazy enough to do something like dress up like a woman she gain access to a woman's back bathroom it's not something that happens it's like one in a million chance of that happening. Transgenders are truly afraid for their lives if they have to use a public bathroom. And like I said I'm a gay man I cannot imagine going in wearing a dress into a man's bathroom, that would be suicide.

So let me see if I correctly understand the very small amount of your lecture that I bothered to read before I got bored.

You knowingly let a man go into the bathroom with your mother and said and did nothing about it, and you expect me to hail you as someone wonderful and readjust all of my own safety assessments in my life based on the fact that your mother fortunately walked out unharmed, no thanks to you.

Is that about the size of it?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Funny, but they aren't there they're in the women's restrooms where they're safe. I think you're logic is off a little, no big deal there's lots of people on here who have much bigger problems than who's using the stall next to them. And that's a really good point the ladies rooms have nothing but stalls so it's a whole lot more private and safer for everyone.

So lobby for the men's room to be converted to stalls.

 

[Cecilie1200]

My point is bigger than that it's about live and let live.

No, it's about "Let the people I approve of live as they will, and everyone else just accept the hardships it causes them in silence because I say so."

 

[Cecilie1200]

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Live and let live is not about requiring others to comply with your wishes ...

.​

I don't see Stann advocating for letting the women who just want to pee or change clothes at the gym without the presence of penis-bearers live and let live. No, THEY have to radically alter to suit him. Clearly, this is only about SOME people getting to be left alone.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're assuming that they wish to use the ladies restroom. They have to. Live and let live means giving the other guy a little leeway so they can live.

No, they don't have to. They choose to present themselves in a way that then makes them feel like they "have" to impose themselves on others. I don't choose to be a woman, and thus physically smaller and weaker than half the population and vulnerable to any of those people who might decide to prey on me. THAT is a truly immutable fact of life. So how about YOU give ME a little leeway so I can live?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

So let me see if I correctly understand the very small amount of your lecture that I bothered to read before I got bored.

You knowingly let a man go into the bathroom with your mother and said and did nothing about it, and you expect me to hail you as someone wonderful and readjust all of my own safety assessments in my life based on the fact that your mother fortunately walked out unharmed, no thanks to you.

Is that about the size of it?

This a legitimate concern since men dressed up as women have, indeed, raped women in women's bathrooms.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I don't see Stann advocating for letting the women who just want to pee or change clothes at the gym without the presence of penis-bearers live and let live. No, THEY have to radically alter to suit him. Clearly, this is only about SOME people getting to be left alone.

The question I would ask is that if they really felt like a woman in their heart of hearts, why are they running around with a penis in the first place?

I would think they would be eager to get rid of that which reminds them that they are male biogically.

 

[Stann]

So let me see if I correctly understand the very small amount of your lecture that I bothered to read before I got bored.

You knowingly let a man go into the bathroom with your mother and said and did nothing about it, and you expect me to hail you as someone wonderful and readjust all of my own safety assessments in my life based on the fact that your mother fortunately walked out unharmed, no thanks to you.

Is that about the size of it?

I saw a suspicious looking lady going to the ladies room right before my mother did while I sat there on a bench in the plaza I figured it out that it was a man. To my surprise my mother walked out with her chatting and then waved goodbye to her. I don't think she was in any danger, they both needed to go and they went in the right place. That's really all I have to say get over yourselves it's not a problem if this is the only problem you have in life you have a very beautiful fortunate life get over yourselves.

 

[Stann]

The question I would ask is that if they really felt like a woman in their heart of hearts, why are they running around with a penis in the first place?

I would think they would be eager to get rid of that which reminds them that they are male biogically.

Or they just haven't had the operation yet. You have to be mentally and physically prepared for that operation or else the doctors won't do it. Who knows and who cares what people are thinking all people deserve respect. Sorry if that inconvenience is you.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Or they just haven't had the operation yet. You have to be mentally and physically prepared for that operation or else the doctors won't do it. Who knows and who cares what people are thinking all people deserve respect. Sorry if that inconvenience is you.

Why do keep using the word inconvenience?

I am not inconvenienced. Since women HAVE been raped by (oh, let's call them) "penis bearing entities", out of consideration for the safety of women, I simply don't think penises belong in Women's rest rooms.

 

[Stann]

Why do keep using the word inconvenience?

I am not inconvenienced. Since women HAVE been raped by (oh, let's call them) "penis bearing entities", out of consideration for the safety of women, I don't think penises belong in Women's rest rooms.

Do they have more don't they ? I don't know, I don't care. When you got to go you got to go. Even guys that wear dresses. Rape occurs all the time unfortunately. It shows total disrespect for women. I doubt if most women, if any, that were raped, were raped by men wearing dresses. If anything men that wear dresses admire and emulate women. And I'm sure since you're so obsessed with this issue you have several articles about such an occurrence. I could counter your argument by showing you hundreds of examples of transgender transvestite people being attacked and or murdered because they used a men's bathroom. That's why I say you're being inconvenienced, that's how most women would describe it. There is no real threat there. Why torture yourself with this. It's not worth it. And I never met intended to spend this much time on this stupid subject it's ridiculous goodbye.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Do they have more don't they ? I don't know, I don't care. When you got to go you got to go. Even guys that wear dresses. Rape occurs all the time unfortunately. It shows total disrespect for women. I doubt if most women, if any, that were raped, were raped by men wearing dresses. If anything men that wear dresses admire and emulate women. And I'm sure since you're so obsessed with this issue you have several articles about such an occurrence. I could counter your argument by showing you hundreds of examples of transgender transvestite people being attacked and or murdered because they used a men's bathroom. That's why I say you're being inconvenienced, that's how most women would describe it. There is no real threat there. Why torture yourself with this. It's not worth it. And I never met intended to spend this much time on this stupid subject it's ridiculous goodbye.

If I am the one who is "obsessed" because I am offering moderate, reasonable statements on the issue ,what does that make all your considerably greater number of postings offering nothing but ranting and accusations?

 

[Coyote]

Just a thought here, on the question brought up asking why they don’t have surgery to remove the male member. From what I’ve heard it is extremely painful, with a painful recovery, irreversible, and expensive (most insurance doesn’t cover it). Not having it done doesn’t necessarily mean the person isn’t serious about his/her gender identity.

Transgender women have a very real danger using the mens room and they are disproportionately victims of violence. I think they are far more likely to be a victim than a perpetrator of violence. I think people have this idea that all kinds of shenanigans goes on in the ladies room, but it is really quite boring and conventional.

 

[Stann]

If I am the one who is "obsessed" because I am offering moderate, reasonable statements on the issue ,what does that make all your considerably greater number of postings offering nothing but ranting and accusations?

I've said it over and over again these people have a right to live they have a right to exist and I'm sorry if you feel it's an inconvenience if on a rare occasions they have to use the women's restroom in public. There is no threat to you or any other woman if they do so
And like I said it's an inconvenience that's all it's like when you're in the parking lot at the at the grocery store and you could hear see a vehicle with the dead battery you go over to ask them if they need help because you know it's the right thing to do but the same time you're relieved when they say they got help coming on the way then you can walk away at least knowing you did the right thing. This is just another one of those things and I'm like I said I'm done here I'm done with you you just keep going on and on stop it already figure out a subject that doesn't bother you doesn't aggravate you you're obviously upset about something. This is a sad thing to get fixated on and obsess over.