Why is jesus not a jew in churches?

[CMike]

Poor misunderstood roman oppressor conquerors against the unruly jews who revolted against the kind roman governorship over their lives

The spin is almost unfathomable.

It's almost like saying those kind loving misunderstood nazis, if only the jews weren't so unruly they wouldn't have been exterminated.

Mike, what religion were the first Christians from?
Jewish?
That is why some call them "Christian Jews".
Why freak out dude?
That is historical fact.
What other religion were the first Christians.?

They then turned from judaism to christianity. They were not both at the same time.

Christianity is mutually exclusive to judaism.

 

[Ropey]

Of course they did. It was the sign of the times. There's nothing to argue, but continue. Before the Jews were indigenous, there were others who were indigenous. How do you think the Jews gained their land and where did all the others go?

Come on, it was the sign of the times. For all. Jews were no different when they first conquered peoples and lands. The proof is that the previous land dwellers cultures are completely gone.

Is that why the Jews revolted against the Romans for many years resulting in the Romans destroying the Second Temple and murdering and expelling the Jewish community?

If the Jews were revolting, then the Romans should have just stopped looking at them.

Consider the times Marc. Go back to times of the Canaanites and you will see a different attitude reigned. Genocide was the order of the day with all who were either conquering or defending. The roles reversed many times. They are all gone. Their languages are all destroyed.

The Romans were no different.

The Romans oppressed the Jews who were the indigenous population in Judah, from which "Jewish" is derived. Their destruction of the Second Temple and of Jerusalem constituted the ethnic cleansing of the Jewish population.

You need be be informed on the subject matter. Trying to put a positive spin on the situation is embarrassing.

 

[CMike]

Again I'm not going to fight with you about it Cmike. I appreciate that you disagree.

But surely you know that Jew can mean a religion or it can mean a race. Those Jews who accepted Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah, as God, as their savior were absolutely Christian Jews.

I did not say the Jews were wrong to want their freedom. Nobody is wrong to want their freedom. I said they were imprudent in choosing to go for it against such overwhelming odds. One can be righteous, right, principled, and pure of heart and mind and still be imprudent.

I really am sorry that you are unable to discuss these things without such anger. It must be very difficult dealing with so much constant angst.

Pot kettle.

It's rather arrogant to tell other people about their own religion.

Also jews fighting against overwhelming odds is why the jews have a state in Israel.

 

[Ropey]

And I'm bloody happy that they did and do continue on.

Of course they did. It was the sign of the times. There's nothing to argue, but continue. Before the Jews were indigenous, there were others who were indigenous. How do you think the Jews gained their land and where did all the others go?

Come on, it was the sign of the times. For all. Jews were no different when they first conquered peoples and lands. The proof is that the previous land dwellers cultures are completely gone.

If the Jews were revolting, then the Romans should have just stopped looking at them.

Consider the times Marc. Go back to times of the Canaanites and you will see a different attitude reigned. Genocide was the order of the day with all who were either conquering or defending. The roles reversed many times. They are all gone. Their languages are all destroyed.

The Romans were no different.

The Romans oppressed the Jews who were the indigenous population in Judah, from which "Jewish" is derived. Their destruction of the Second Temple and of Jerusalem constituted the ethnic cleansing of the Jewish population.

You need be be informed on the subject matter. Trying to put a positive spin on the situation is embarrassing.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

The answer to the original question is simple: throughout a variety of societies, man makes god in his image. The other way around is just foolish. What part of a human being could possibly be made in the image of an omnipotent being? Is it the pancreas? I mean really think about this one.

As someone else pointed out, the idea of Jesus shifts towards whatever culture is imagining him. Because if he was a Jew from the middle east, he'd have dark skin, hair, and eyes. That's assuming that his conception used middle eastern god DNA. But that's a joke onto itself.

 

[Marc39]

How do you think the Jews gained their land and where did all the others go?

Nobody knows for sure, however, one significant school of thought is the Israelites emerged from the Canaanite population and merely grew to become the dominant population of Canaan.

Come on, it was the sign of the times.

Yah, we got it. It wasn't a very intelligent statement the first time.

 

[Gadawg73]

Again I'm not going to fight with you about it Cmike. I appreciate that you disagree.

But surely you know that Jew can mean a religion or it can mean a race. Those Jews who accepted Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah, as God, as their savior were absolutely Christian Jews.

I did not say the Jews were wrong to want their freedom. Nobody is wrong to want their freedom. I said they were imprudent in choosing to go for it against such overwhelming odds. One can be righteous, right, principled, and pure of heart and mind and still be imprudent.

I really am sorry that you are unable to discuss these things without such anger. It must be very difficult dealing with so much constant angst.

I'll answer Gadawg too in this post.

There is no such thing as being a christian jew. You have to pick your G-D. You either worship G-D or jesus, you can't worship both.

We learns this from Kings 1 18

21. And Elijah drew near to all the people and said, "Until when are you hopping between two ideas? If the Lord is God, go after Him, and if the Baal, go after him." And the people did not answer him a word.

You gotta big, you can't have both. You are either christian and worship jesus, or you are jewish, and worship only G-D. You can not have both.

You ran from my ? like a monkey on fire.
What religion were the first Christians from?
Hint: Begins with a J.
You will feel better Mike when you admit it. Go ahead. Do it.

 

[Ropey]

Yah, we got it.

"We"?

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Again I'm not going to fight with you about it Cmike. I appreciate that you disagree.

But surely you know that Jew can mean a religion or it can mean a race. Those Jews who accepted Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah, as God, as their savior were absolutely Christian Jews.

I did not say the Jews were wrong to want their freedom. Nobody is wrong to want their freedom. I said they were imprudent in choosing to go for it against such overwhelming odds. One can be righteous, right, principled, and pure of heart and mind and still be imprudent.

I really am sorry that you are unable to discuss these things without such anger. It must be very difficult dealing with so much constant angst.

I'll answer Gadawg too in this post.

There is no such thing as being a christian jew. You have to pick your G-D. You either worship G-D or jesus, you can't worship both.

We learns this from Kings 1 18

21. And Elijah drew near to all the people and said, "Until when are you hopping between two ideas? If the Lord is God, go after Him, and if the Baal, go after him." And the people did not answer him a word.

You gotta big, you can't have both. You are either christian and worship jesus, or you are jewish, and worship only G-D. You can not have both.

You ran from my ? like a monkey on fire.
What religion were the first Christians from?
Hint: Begins with a J.
You will feel better Mike when you admit it. Go ahead. Do it.

I have to agree with Mike. The concept of "Christian Jew" is self-contradictory. The two religions are mutually exclusive. One stemming from the other does not make some crazy half-breed. It simply means Christianity came from Judaism, but is not Judaism.

 

[DiveCon]

I'll answer Gadawg too in this post.

There is no such thing as being a christian jew. You have to pick your G-D. You either worship G-D or jesus, you can't worship both.

We learns this from Kings 1 18

21. And Elijah drew near to all the people and said, "Until when are you hopping between two ideas? If the Lord is God, go after Him, and if the Baal, go after him." And the people did not answer him a word.

You gotta big, you can't have both. You are either christian and worship jesus, or you are jewish, and worship only G-D. You can not have both.

You ran from my ? like a monkey on fire.
What religion were the first Christians from?
Hint: Begins with a J.
You will feel better Mike when you admit it. Go ahead. Do it.

I have to agree with Mike. The concept of "Christian Jew" is self-contradictory. The two religions are mutually exclusive. One stemming from the other does not make some crazy half-breed. It simply means Christianity came from Judaism, but is not Judaism.

Jews are not just a religion
does a Jew cease to be a Jew if they become atheist?

 

[Foxfyre]

Again I'm not going to fight with you about it Cmike. I appreciate that you disagree.

But surely you know that Jew can mean a religion or it can mean a race. Those Jews who accepted Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah, as God, as their savior were absolutely Christian Jews.

I did not say the Jews were wrong to want their freedom. Nobody is wrong to want their freedom. I said they were imprudent in choosing to go for it against such overwhelming odds. One can be righteous, right, principled, and pure of heart and mind and still be imprudent.

I really am sorry that you are unable to discuss these things without such anger. It must be very difficult dealing with so much constant angst.

Pot kettle.

It's rather arrogant to tell other people about their own religion.

Also jews fighting against overwhelming odds is why the jews have a state in Israel.

The Romans drove most of the Jews from Jerusalem in or close to 70 AD.
The Jews could not call Israel their land again for more than 1800 years.
I have not presumed to tell you or anybody else about 'your' religion.
I am telling people about MY religion and MY understanding of the events that are important to it.
If you think that improper, I suggest you would appear less hypcritical if you would not utter or type another word about Christianity.

 

[Marc39]

Again I'm not going to fight with you about it Cmike. I appreciate that you disagree.

But surely you know that Jew can mean a religion or it can mean a race. Those Jews who accepted Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah, as God, as their savior were absolutely Christian Jews.

I did not say the Jews were wrong to want their freedom. Nobody is wrong to want their freedom. I said they were imprudent in choosing to go for it against such overwhelming odds. One can be righteous, right, principled, and pure of heart and mind and still be imprudent.

I really am sorry that you are unable to discuss these things without such anger. It must be very difficult dealing with so much constant angst.

Pot kettle.

It's rather arrogant to tell other people about their own religion.

Also jews fighting against overwhelming odds is why the jews have a state in Israel.

The Romans drove most of the Jews from Jerusalem in or close to 70 AD.
The Jews could not call Israel their land again for more than 1800 years.
I have not presumed to tell you or anybody else about 'your' religion.
I am telling people about MY religion and MY understanding of the events that are important to it.
If you think that improper, I suggest you would appear less hypcritical if you would not utter or type another word about Christianity.

Not quite accurate. The Romans only expelled the Jewish elite in 70 AD with the destruction of the Second Temple. It wasn't until 135 AD with the Bar Kochba Revolt that the Romans expelled and massacred the Jewish population in its entirety and renamed Judea "Palaestina" to obliterate any historical connection between Judea and the Jews.

 

[Foxfyre]

Pot kettle.

It's rather arrogant to tell other people about their own religion.

Also jews fighting against overwhelming odds is why the jews have a state in Israel.

The Romans drove most of the Jews from Jerusalem in or close to 70 AD.
The Jews could not call Israel their land again for more than 1800 years.
I have not presumed to tell you or anybody else about 'your' religion.
I am telling people about MY religion and MY understanding of the events that are important to it.
If you think that improper, I suggest you would appear less hypcritical if you would not utter or type another word about Christianity.

Not quite accurate. The Romans only expelled the Jewish elite in 70 AD with the destruction of the Second Temple. It wasn't until 135 AD with the Bar Kochba Revolt that the Romans expelled and massacred the Jewish population in its entirety and renamed Judea "Palaestina" to obliterate any historical connection between Judea and the Jews.

Thank you. I have been taught somewhat differently on the fine details and my understanding is that at least some Jews have continuously occupied Jerusalem since King David established it as his capital city, but even among the scholars I have read and studied under do not always agree on the details. So on the theory that you are as likely to be correct as I am, I won't even attempt to disagree until I have read up on it some more.

 

[Marc39]

The Romans drove most of the Jews from Jerusalem in or close to 70 AD.
The Jews could not call Israel their land again for more than 1800 years.
I have not presumed to tell you or anybody else about 'your' religion.
I am telling people about MY religion and MY understanding of the events that are important to it.
If you think that improper, I suggest you would appear less hypcritical if you would not utter or type another word about Christianity.

Not quite accurate. The Romans only expelled the Jewish elite in 70 AD with the destruction of the Second Temple. It wasn't until 135 AD with the Bar Kochba Revolt that the Romans expelled and massacred the Jewish population in its entirety and renamed Judea "Palaestina" to obliterate any historical connection between Judea and the Jews.

Thank you. I have been taught somewhat differently on the fine details and my understanding is that at least some Jews have continuously occupied Jerusalem since King David established it as his capital city, but even among the scholars I have read and studied under do not always agree on the details. So on the theory that you are as likely to be correct as I am, I won't even attempt to disagree until I have read up on it some more.

Now, you correct me, since I overstated the matter when I said Jews were expelled from Judea by the Romans in their entirety in 135 AD in the aftermath of the Bar Kochba Revolt. Yes, as you stated, a small Jewish community remained, where Jews have remained ever since.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

You ran from my ? like a monkey on fire.
What religion were the first Christians from?
Hint: Begins with a J.
You will feel better Mike when you admit it. Go ahead. Do it.

I have to agree with Mike. The concept of "Christian Jew" is self-contradictory. The two religions are mutually exclusive. One stemming from the other does not make some crazy half-breed. It simply means Christianity came from Judaism, but is not Judaism.

Jews are not just a religion
does a Jew cease to be a Jew if they become atheist?

Sure, you could talk about culture or tradition. I was responding only to the religious aspect of it. If a Jew becomes an atheist or another mutually exclusive religion, they are by definition no longer religiously Jewish.

 

[DiveCon]

I have to agree with Mike. The concept of "Christian Jew" is self-contradictory. The two religions are mutually exclusive. One stemming from the other does not make some crazy half-breed. It simply means Christianity came from Judaism, but is not Judaism.

Jews are not just a religion
does a Jew cease to be a Jew if they become atheist?

Sure, you could talk about culture or tradition. I was responding only to the religious aspect of it. If a Jew becomes an atheist or another mutually exclusive religion, they are by definition no longer religiously Jewish.

but they would still be ethnically Jewish
so a Christian Jew would be someone ethnically Jewish and a Christian

 

[CMike]

No

 

[DiveCon]

No

so, you think it changes their genetics because they change religions?

are there any atheist Jews?
agnostic?

 

[Gadawg73]

I'll answer Gadawg too in this post.

There is no such thing as being a christian jew. You have to pick your G-D. You either worship G-D or jesus, you can't worship both.

We learns this from Kings 1 18

21. And Elijah drew near to all the people and said, "Until when are you hopping between two ideas? If the Lord is God, go after Him, and if the Baal, go after him." And the people did not answer him a word.

You gotta big, you can't have both. You are either christian and worship jesus, or you are jewish, and worship only G-D. You can not have both.

You ran from my ? like a monkey on fire.
What religion were the first Christians from?
Hint: Begins with a J.
You will feel better Mike when you admit it. Go ahead. Do it.

I have to agree with Mike. The concept of "Christian Jew" is self-contradictory. The two religions are mutually exclusive. One stemming from the other does not make some crazy half-breed. It simply means Christianity came from Judaism, but is not Judaism.

I never said Christian Jew. That was someone else.
I state correctly that most of the first Christians were Jewish before they were Christian.
Never said there was a half breed either.
Are you stating that the majority of the first Christians were NOT from Jewish background?
Jesus and most of his followers were Jews.
Never said Christianity is Judaism. Don't know where you got that.
Christians just did not appear out of no where. The first ones were predominantly Jews.
Jews are a people and Judaism is a religion. Not all Jews practice Judaism.
I am not a religous person. All I do is post historical facts.

 

[Newby]

Is that why the Jews revolted against the Romans for many years resulting in the Romans destroyng the Second Temple and murdering and expelling the Jewish community?

The Jews were not always entirely prudent in their activities and the Zealots got the upper edge around 70 A.D. and decided they were going to retake control of Jerusalem so they started a civil war. They were of course way out gunned and way under manned to do that and it sufficiently ticked off the Romans that they threw most of the Jews out of Jerusalem again and destroyed the Temple.

That was also a bad deal for the Christians who up until then had been seen as just another sect of the Jews and enjoyed pretty much the same privileges and protections. But when the orthodox Jews appealed to the Christian Jews to help them in their attack of the Romans, the Christian Jews refused. And resentment of that turned the existing tensions into a full scale rift so that never again would the two groups be associated with each other. And the Christians were then removed from the protected class and were fair game for a series of sadistic emperors who persecuted Christians in various places including Rome.

You are nuts.

BTW there is no such thing as a christian jew, just like their is no such thing as an muslim christian.

What's the source for your version of the information? Really, your version is really not that different, it just completely eliminates any hostility of the Jewish leadership towards Jesus, which is completely unrealistic. And you are so biased against Christians that you can't accept any other version than what you've concluded in your own mind at this point. Do you seriously believe there weren't any feelings of animosity towards Jesus by the Jewish leadership? You make the Romans out to be brutal and savage, yet the Jews were the complete opposite? Just because they didn't hold power, doesn't mean they didn't have influence in their own communities, to conclude that they had none is ridiculous.