Why not the Fair Tax?

[Toddsterpatriot]

Just say that you don't understand it.

Explain the magic to me. Use small words.

 

[ThisIsMe]

The point was that this tax is supposed to be easy, and it's supposed to be FAIR.

You're saying you need a prebate because it's INHERENTLY NOT FAIR.

And I told you, there'd be no boom in employment.

A boom in employment would come when POOR PEOPLE have more money to spend.

You want a tax that makes poorer people MUCH POORER with less money to spend, so everyone will lose out.

We can look all around the world and see that societies with less money, have poor people buying less and the economy doing less well.

The way I understand it is the prebate is supposedly what makes it fair. It gives people the ability to meet their basic needs before a tax is paid. Beyond that, you get to control how much tax you pay by how much you consume. If you buy small things and consume little, you pay less in taxes, if you buy big things and consume more, you pay more taxes.

Anyway, from what I see here though, most people don’t like the tax..so, it answers my question…

 

[Libby von H]

Easing the pain instead of curing the problem is cruel and stupid.
You could probably trim 2 TRILLION off the "budget" Biden is campagning on
Everybody treated equally unfairly is not a solution. It will increase the real problem: Govt is spending your assss off

 

[DudleySmith]

In the end most 'rationalist solutions' end up using mass murder to solve their self-inflicted ideological failures, right or left wing.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The way I understand it is the prebate is supposedly what makes it fair. It gives people the ability to meet their basic needs before a tax is paid. Beyond that, you get to control how much tax you pay by how much you consume. If you buy small things and consume little, you pay less in taxes, if you buy big things and consume more, you pay more taxes.

Anyway, from what I see here though, most people don’t like the tax..so, it answers my question…

It's laughable.

Before they really fuck them over, they're going to give them enough money to not die.

Why not make a fair tax that doesn't force them to pay four times more in tax than before?

Literally you're saying "if you're poor, don't consume"

 

[Foxfyre]

Yes, they are still paying $100 for the toaster. But they receive all of the gross salary. So they bring more money home.

If you make $10 an hour, and work a 40 hour week, your gross pay is $400.
Under the current clusterfuck of a tax system, you will likely pay 25% in taxes, So you bring home $300 a week.
Under the Fair Tax, you would receive $400. And your taxes would be paid with a consumption tax on what you spend.

Also, the taxes are accessed on all new goods and services. So buying a used car is exempt.

You leave out the part that the retailer is making $23 less on that toaster with the fair tax assessed. So the retailer is going to charge a lot more for that toaster just as it adds on the sales or gross receipts tax that the customer pays now. And those paying little or no tax now are hit on the chin hard as they have pretty much the same amount of money but pay a lot more for what they need.

 

[ThisIsMe]

It's laughable.

Before they really fuck them over, they're going to give them enough money to not die.

Why not make a fair tax that doesn't force them to pay four times more in tax than before?

Literally you're saying "if you're poor, don't consume"

Many, you disagree, that’s fine. Again, it was just a question…I appreciate your answer.

I myself don’t know the answer I’m just looking for input. I listened to a presentation, it sounded reasonable to me, so I thought I’d ask here.

Some people apparently got upset over the question…that’s not my problem..to each their own.

Anyway, thanks..I’ll mark you down as a “no”

 

[frigidweirdo]

Many, you disagree, that’s fine. Again, it was just a question…I appreciate your answer.

I myself don’t know the answer I’m just looking for input. I listened to a presentation, it sounded reasonable to me, so I thought I’d ask here.

Some people apparently got upset over the question…that’s not my problem..to each their own.

Anyway, thanks..I’ll mark you down as a “no”

Well, I'm glad that you've listened to people.

A lot of people would have just decided they liked it and stuck with it until the ends of the earth.

There's a lot of this stuff from rich people, looks like it's good for the poor, but it really isn't. Like school vouchers, a total scam.

 

[Billiejeens]

Many, you disagree, that’s fine. Again, it was just a question…I appreciate your answer.

I myself don’t know the answer I’m just looking for input. I listened to a presentation, it sounded reasonable to me, so I thought I’d ask here.

Some people apparently got upset over the question…that’s not my problem..to each their own.

Anyway, thanks..I’ll mark you down as a “no”

It's fantastic.

Leftist will never like it, it doesn't punish success.

If someone starting researching it when you posted, they wouldn't have had enough time to understand it yet.

If won't happen.

Determining taxation is the biggest perk of bring in Congress.

 

[ThisIsMe]

It's fantastic.

Leftist will never like it, it doesn't punish success.

If someone starting researching it when you posted, they wouldn't have had enough time to understand it yet.

If won't happen.

Determining taxation is the biggest perk of bring in Congress.

Well, I agree and I can see how it would hurt the poorer folks, in that, their income taxes are already minimal, and they would have to incur a 23% sales tax on everything, granted, they are getting a prebate and tax free income, but I’m not sure if that would overcome the extra that the poor would have to pay.

However, I do see some merit in how a tax free business environment would make the U.S. the envy of the world and everyone would be wanting to move their businesses here, and that would spur job growth and wage growth, though some disagree, but I think it might help bring some of those lower income people out of that situation.

 

[HeyNorm]

You leave out the part that the retailer is making $23 less on that toaster with the fair tax assessed. So the retailer is going to charge a lot more for that toaster just as it adds on the sales or gross receipts tax that the customer pays now. And those paying little or no tax now are hit on the chin hard as they have pretty much the same amount of money but pay a lot more for what they need.

Ummmm, no. Or they would increase the price already. I have doubts about the fair tax, but this is just stupid.

The competition would eat that retailer alive and spit it out.

 

[DudleySmith]

However, I do see some merit in how a tax free business environment would make the U.S. the envy of the world and everyone would be wanting to move their businesses here, and that would spur job growth and wage growth, though some disagree, but I think it might help bring some of those lower income people out of that situation.

Yes. Those poor people make way too much money as it is. If only they would work a lot more hours for a lot less pay then they would prosper and get rich as the economy boomed from the lower consumption and sales!

 

[ThisIsMe]

Yes. Those poor people make way too much money as it is. If only they would work a lot more hours for a lot less pay then they would prosper and get rich as the economy boomed from the lower consumption and sales!

Or…many more businesses would come to the U.S. and since they are paying corporate taxes, could pay a better wage?

 

[Foxfyre]

Ummmm, no. Or they would increase the price already. I have doubts about the fair tax, but this is just stupid.

The competition would eat that retailer alive and spit it out.

Not when the competition is all in the same boat. Retailers are in business to make maximum profit they can. Competition creates a dynamic that they make more profit offering lower prices. When you assess a high tax on the retailer's product or service, the retailer isn't just going to eat that. He will raise his price the amount of the tax to ensure his profit.

 

[DudleySmith]

Or…many more businesses would come to the U.S. and since they are paying corporate taxes, could pay a better wage?

Yes, we've attracted all kinds of enterprises from overseas. Here's some those entrepreneurs here:

Portraits Of MS-13 IN EL SALVADOR

I grew up around the gangs of Los Angeles, and I have seen them change over time into something way more scary than what I remember. Two gangs from Southern California that have been on some next level madness are MS-13 and 18th St – both of these gangs are now terrorizing people worldwide. They […]

cvltnation.com

 

[ThisIsMe]

Yes, we've attracted all kinds of enterprises from overseas. Here's some those entrepreneurs here:

Portraits Of MS-13 IN EL SALVADOR

I grew up around the gangs of Los Angeles, and I have seen them change over time into something way more scary than what I remember. Two gangs from Southern California that have been on some next level madness are MS-13 and 18th St – both of these gangs are now terrorizing people worldwide. They […]

cvltnation.com

always looking for the worst scenario? Or, it may attract some good businesses..

 

[DudleySmith]

always looking for the worst scenario? Or, it may attract some good businesses..

It's not a 'scenario', it's what is going on. The only thing it attracts is labor racketeering and foreign gangsters. If you think merely attracting businesses is grand, you'll really love the Red Chinese business model.

 

[HeyNorm]

Not when the competition is all in the same boat. Retailers are in business to make maximum profit they can. Competition creates a dynamic that they make more profit offering lower prices. When you assess a high tax on the retailer's product or service, the retailer isn't just going to eat that. He will raise his price the amount of the tax to ensure his profit.

Again, you’re just making things up.

If they are all in the same boat before the fair tax implementation, after, they are in the same boat. Nothing changed.

Look, currently you want to buy the toaster. You go to the store and it’s $100.00. You grab it off the shelf, go to the checkout counter and pay for it. You walk out with a toaster that costs $100 plus state and local taxes. You have no idea that you just paid, through the purchase $23 in federal taxes. All you know is that it cost you $100.

After the fair tax would be implemented, the scenario changes to:

You want to buy the same toaster. You go to the store and see it only costs $77.00 plus tax. At the checkout counter you pay $100, the cost of the toaster plus $23 in fair tax. The consumer is paying the same amount, it’s just more transparent in the amount of taxes this consumer paid in this transaction.

It’s a zero difference.

You can pitch a fit about how much more the poor is paying in taxes, but the reality is, they pay no more in taxes, they just went from thinking they weren’t paying any taxes, to realizing they were all along.

Like I said, I have my qualms about this scheme, and posters like WinterBorn added to those for me.

One of my favorite lines from a song is “the women are lovely, the wine is superb, but there’s something about the song that disturbs you”.

In theory, the fair tax is a good idea, but if it’s that good at collecting what was previously collected through the income tax, and in theory it wouldn’t inflate prices from their current levels, then why the prebate? Sounds like a marketing ploy and something easily manipulated to buy votes.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Again, you’re just making things up.

If they are all in the same boat before the fair tax implementation, after, they are in the same boat. Nothing changed.

Look, currently you want to buy the toaster. You go to the store and it’s $100.00. You grab it off the shelf, go to the checkout counter and pay for it. You walk out with a toaster that costs $100 plus state and local taxes. You have no idea that you just paid, through the purchase $23 in federal taxes. All you know is that it cost you $100.

After the fair tax would be implemented, the scenario changes to:

You want to buy the same toaster. You go to the store and see it only costs $77.00 plus tax. At the checkout counter you pay $100, the cost of the toaster plus $23 in fair tax. The consumer is paying the same amount, it’s just more transparent in the amount of taxes this consumer paid in this transaction.

It’s a zero difference.

You can pitch a fit about how much more the poor is paying in taxes, but the reality is, they pay no more in taxes, they just went from thinking they weren’t paying any taxes, to realizing they were all along.

Like I said, I have my qualms about this scheme, and posters like WinterBorn added to those for me.

One of my favorite lines from a song is “the women are lovely, the wine is superb, but there’s something about the song that disturbs you”.

In theory, the fair tax is a good idea, but if it’s that good at collecting what was previously collected through the income tax, and in theory it wouldn’t inflate prices from their current levels, then why the prebate? Sounds like a marketing ploy and something easily manipulated to buy votes.

Actually yes, i keep forgetting about this…nobody pays any more for a product than they did before. So this argument about the poor having to pay 23% more for things is wrong. They pay exactly what they did before, but now their buying power is increased because they have no taxes taken out of their check and they get a prebate each month.

The only question is, would the fair tax raise the same kind of revenue to fund the government?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Again, you’re just making things up.

If they are all in the same boat before the fair tax implementation, after, they are in the same boat. Nothing changed.

Look, currently you want to buy the toaster. You go to the store and it’s $100.00. You grab it off the shelf, go to the checkout counter and pay for it. You walk out with a toaster that costs $100 plus state and local taxes. You have no idea that you just paid, through the purchase $23 in federal taxes. All you know is that it cost you $100.

After the fair tax would be implemented, the scenario changes to:

You want to buy the same toaster. You go to the store and see it only costs $77.00 plus tax. At the checkout counter you pay $100, the cost of the toaster plus $23 in fair tax. The consumer is paying the same amount, it’s just more transparent in the amount of taxes this consumer paid in this transaction.

It’s a zero difference.

You can pitch a fit about how much more the poor is paying in taxes, but the reality is, they pay no more in taxes, they just went from thinking they weren’t paying any taxes, to realizing they were all along.

Like I said, I have my qualms about this scheme, and posters like WinterBorn added to those for me.

One of my favorite lines from a song is “the women are lovely, the wine is superb, but there’s something about the song that disturbs you”.

In theory, the fair tax is a good idea, but if it’s that good at collecting what was previously collected through the income tax, and in theory it wouldn’t inflate prices from their current levels, then why the prebate? Sounds like a marketing ploy and something easily manipulated to buy votes.

You have no idea that you just paid, through the purchase $23 in federal taxes.

Most likely because it doesn't.