Why only a "progressive" income tax?

[NYcarbineer]

I'm guessing you're not rich, so I hope you understand that a flat tax will probably raise your taxes.

why can't you give an example of your concern? What is it you're afraid of?

The OP has proposed raising taxes dramatically on people making as low as minimum wage, or even lower I guess. He wants to tax every dollar earned, anywhere, any way.

You can either agree with him or debate him. It's his thread.

I haven't proposed a rate at all

I've said I'm not sure what the rate would be but yes those paying no tax would have to pay tax why do you have a problem with that?

So we have people hardly making ends meet. And you want to take more money away from them, increasing the demand for welfare and charity, decreasing consumer spending, creating more poverty. .. all in the name of fairness to the fat cats?

Absurd.

I'm thinking we could be revenue neutral with a flat tax of 10% sorry but no one is going to have a huge lifestyle change if they take home 90 cents on the dollar

10% on a 20,000/year income is a $2000 tax where probably there was none before.

That is a huge 'lifestyle' change.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And now 26 pages in and not one person has answered the question in the OP

 

[NYcarbineer]

The progressive income tax allows for the government to rake in more money while not over burdening the lower and middle class beyond their means. These classes drive our economy by spending.

A flat tax would require also cutting government spending to ensure the deficit wouldn't skyrocket. However, by eliminating the complexity of the tax code, and hence eliminating the means the rich use to avoid paying their fair share, plus the potential boon to the economy of cutting tax rates, revenue may not take as big a hit as initially calculated. This could result in surplus and debt reduction. Overall a win win.

what is fair share, please give me your definition.

Fair share is to pay close to the percentage intended by law for your income bracket. If you make 1 million, you should pay close to what the rate on millionaires is.

You don't understand tax brackets you only pay the rate on a million for those dollars you earn over a million not on ALL your income

By percentage I mean whatever that percentage is when figuring all tax brackets. E.g. if the tax is 10% on the first 1 million and 20% on the second, someone making 2 million would have an overall percentage tax of 15%.

The average net tax in this country is about 11%

Where do payroll taxes fit into this brilliant scheme of yours?

 

[jc456]

Income redistribution is not illegal, nor theft. It is very bad policy.

However, the estate tax, or not allowing generational accumulation of wealth from capital rather than increased production of goods or services, is not redistribution that takes from a citizen who earned money simply to give to a citizen who hasn't earned money.

The progressive tax does tax everyone at the same rates, bracket by bracket.

Not the point but keep trying

I have said that why is one earned dollar different from another other than the fact that some politician says it is?

If we are going to tax an earned dollar then ALL earned dollars should be taxed the same they aren't now

Just because some guy on the internet says that all dollars should be taxed the same...

how does that prove anything?

Oh, btw, are you going to tax church income the same, in your imaginary world?

Yes churches are nothing but businesses I'll add charities to that list too

I thought you'd all giggly about getting rid of deductions for charity after all it's how all those rich assholes pay less in taxes

well that will really kill off the poor and needy.

I doubt that

who will give to charities? The rich keep the money coming in on charities, you take away that loophole goodbye to money going there. I'm just sayin, where would the money come from?

BTW, you would also take away money from investments so killing off jobs would be in there as well. yeah me thinks that isn't a good idea.

 

[NYcarbineer]

And now 26 pages in and not one person has answered the question in the OP

I did in my first post. It's a stupid idea based on the stupid premise that a good idea in moderation is a better idea if taken to its most extreme.

 

[Skull Pilot]

why can't you give an example of your concern? What is it you're afraid of?

The OP has proposed raising taxes dramatically on people making as low as minimum wage, or even lower I guess. He wants to tax every dollar earned, anywhere, any way.

You can either agree with him or debate him. It's his thread.

I haven't proposed a rate at all

I've said I'm not sure what the rate would be but yes those paying no tax would have to pay tax why do you have a problem with that?

So we have people hardly making ends meet. And you want to take more money away from them, increasing the demand for welfare and charity, decreasing consumer spending, creating more poverty. .. all in the name of fairness to the fat cats?

Absurd.

I'm thinking we could be revenue neutral with a flat tax of 10% sorry but no one is going to have a huge lifestyle change if they take home 90 cents on the dollar

10% on a 20,000/year income is a $2000 tax where probably there was none before.

That is a huge 'lifestyle' change.

Not really because 10% is already the lowest tax rate and that is already being taken out of people's paychecks they just won't get it back in a refund

People live on their net pay not their gross

 

[jc456]

and stupid

I'm guessing you're not rich, so I hope you understand that a flat tax will probably raise your taxes.

why can't you give an example of your concern? What is it you're afraid of?

The OP has proposed raising taxes dramatically on people making as low as minimum wage, or even lower I guess. He wants to tax every dollar earned, anywhere, any way.

You can either agree with him or debate him. It's his thread.

I haven't proposed a rate at all

I've said I'm not sure what the rate would be but yes those paying no tax would have to pay tax why do you have a problem with that?

So we have people hardly making ends meet. And you want to take more money away from them, increasing the demand for welfare and charity, decreasing consumer spending, creating more poverty. .. all in the name of fairness to the fat cats?

Absurd.

there's that fairness word again. Why do you think it is only fair for rich to pay into the government for funding it?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Not the point but keep trying

I have said that why is one earned dollar different from another other than the fact that some politician says it is?

If we are going to tax an earned dollar then ALL earned dollars should be taxed the same they aren't now

Just because some guy on the internet says that all dollars should be taxed the same...

how does that prove anything?

Oh, btw, are you going to tax church income the same, in your imaginary world?

Yes churches are nothing but businesses I'll add charities to that list too

I thought you'd all giggly about getting rid of deductions for charity after all it's how all those rich assholes pay less in taxes

well that will really kill off the poor and needy.

I doubt that

who will give to charities? The rich keep the money coming in on charities, you take away that loophole goodbye to money going there. I'm just sayin, where would the money come from?

Tax policies to influence behavior should be done away with

 

[NYcarbineer]

Not the point but keep trying

I have said that why is one earned dollar different from another other than the fact that some politician says it is?

If we are going to tax an earned dollar then ALL earned dollars should be taxed the same they aren't now

Just because some guy on the internet says that all dollars should be taxed the same...

how does that prove anything?

Oh, btw, are you going to tax church income the same, in your imaginary world?

Yes churches are nothing but businesses I'll add charities to that list too

I thought you'd all giggly about getting rid of deductions for charity after all it's how all those rich assholes pay less in taxes

well that will really kill off the poor and needy.

I doubt that

who will give to charities? The rich keep the money coming in on charities, you take away that loophole goodbye to money going there. I'm just sayin, where would the money come from?

All charity INCOME would be taxed as well under the OP's plan. He is taxing GROSS INCOME.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Just because some guy on the internet says that all dollars should be taxed the same...

how does that prove anything?

Oh, btw, are you going to tax church income the same, in your imaginary world?

Yes churches are nothing but businesses I'll add charities to that list too

I thought you'd all giggly about getting rid of deductions for charity after all it's how all those rich assholes pay less in taxes

well that will really kill off the poor and needy.

I doubt that

who will give to charities? The rich keep the money coming in on charities, you take away that loophole goodbye to money going there. I'm just sayin, where would the money come from?

Tax policies to influence behavior should be done away with

What about criminal and civil law to influence behaviour?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Just because some guy on the internet says that all dollars should be taxed the same...

how does that prove anything?

Oh, btw, are you going to tax church income the same, in your imaginary world?

Yes churches are nothing but businesses I'll add charities to that list too

I thought you'd all giggly about getting rid of deductions for charity after all it's how all those rich assholes pay less in taxes

well that will really kill off the poor and needy.

I doubt that

who will give to charities? The rich keep the money coming in on charities, you take away that loophole goodbye to money going there. I'm just sayin, where would the money come from?

All charity INCOME would be taxed as well under the OP's plan. He is taxing GROSS INCOME.

Income to a business is the profit so yes you tax all the profit at a flat rate

 

[jc456]

Just because some guy on the internet says that all dollars should be taxed the same...

how does that prove anything?

Oh, btw, are you going to tax church income the same, in your imaginary world?

Yes churches are nothing but businesses I'll add charities to that list too

I thought you'd all giggly about getting rid of deductions for charity after all it's how all those rich assholes pay less in taxes

well that will really kill off the poor and needy.

I doubt that

who will give to charities? The rich keep the money coming in on charities, you take away that loophole goodbye to money going there. I'm just sayin, where would the money come from?

Tax policies to influence behavior should be done away with

I'll disagree with you on that.

 

[jc456]

Yes churches are nothing but businesses I'll add charities to that list too

I thought you'd all giggly about getting rid of deductions for charity after all it's how all those rich assholes pay less in taxes

well that will really kill off the poor and needy.

I doubt that

who will give to charities? The rich keep the money coming in on charities, you take away that loophole goodbye to money going there. I'm just sayin, where would the money come from?

All charity INCOME would be taxed as well under the OP's plan. He is taxing GROSS INCOME.

Income to a business is the profit so yes you tax all the profit at a flat rate

so you wish to tax corporations before they pay their employees? So then the government would get tax money multiple times off the same money? I don't think so. Most likely why it is a dying proposal.

 

[jc456]

Just because some guy on the internet says that all dollars should be taxed the same...

how does that prove anything?

Oh, btw, are you going to tax church income the same, in your imaginary world?

Yes churches are nothing but businesses I'll add charities to that list too

I thought you'd all giggly about getting rid of deductions for charity after all it's how all those rich assholes pay less in taxes

well that will really kill off the poor and needy.

I doubt that

who will give to charities? The rich keep the money coming in on charities, you take away that loophole goodbye to money going there. I'm just sayin, where would the money come from?

All charity INCOME would be taxed as well under the OP's plan. He is taxing GROSS INCOME.

yeah, I get that now that you and I have bantered it. Nope no good.

BTW, it is why the flat tax would actually hit the rich hardest.

 

[jc456]

Yes churches are nothing but businesses I'll add charities to that list too

I thought you'd all giggly about getting rid of deductions for charity after all it's how all those rich assholes pay less in taxes

well that will really kill off the poor and needy.

I doubt that

who will give to charities? The rich keep the money coming in on charities, you take away that loophole goodbye to money going there. I'm just sayin, where would the money come from?

All charity INCOME would be taxed as well under the OP's plan. He is taxing GROSS INCOME.

Income to a business is the profit so yes you tax all the profit at a flat rate

so what are you considering profit? after paying employees or not?

 

[bendog]

Taking a wild guess, but isn't JC hijacking the thread to promote the concept of "double taxation?" If so, asshole.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The OP has proposed raising taxes dramatically on people making as low as minimum wage, or even lower I guess. He wants to tax every dollar earned, anywhere, any way.

You can either agree with him or debate him. It's his thread.

I haven't proposed a rate at all

I've said I'm not sure what the rate would be but yes those paying no tax would have to pay tax why do you have a problem with that?

So we have people hardly making ends meet. And you want to take more money away from them, increasing the demand for welfare and charity, decreasing consumer spending, creating more poverty. .. all in the name of fairness to the fat cats?

Absurd.

I'm thinking we could be revenue neutral with a flat tax of 10% sorry but no one is going to have a huge lifestyle change if they take home 90 cents on the dollar

10% on a 20,000/year income is a $2000 tax where probably there was none before.

That is a huge 'lifestyle' change.

Not really because 10% is already the lowest tax rate and that is already being taken out of people's paychecks they just won't get it back in a refund

People live on their net pay not their gross

Nobody spends their refunds. Prove it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Yes churches are nothing but businesses I'll add charities to that list too

I thought you'd all giggly about getting rid of deductions for charity after all it's how all those rich assholes pay less in taxes

well that will really kill off the poor and needy.

I doubt that

who will give to charities? The rich keep the money coming in on charities, you take away that loophole goodbye to money going there. I'm just sayin, where would the money come from?

All charity INCOME would be taxed as well under the OP's plan. He is taxing GROSS INCOME.

Income to a business is the profit so yes you tax all the profit at a flat rate

So a business will retain all of its deductions but the average family won't.

lol

 

[NYcarbineer]

Yes churches are nothing but businesses I'll add charities to that list too

I thought you'd all giggly about getting rid of deductions for charity after all it's how all those rich assholes pay less in taxes

well that will really kill off the poor and needy.

I doubt that

who will give to charities? The rich keep the money coming in on charities, you take away that loophole goodbye to money going there. I'm just sayin, where would the money come from?

All charity INCOME would be taxed as well under the OP's plan. He is taxing GROSS INCOME.

yeah, I get that now that you and I have bantered it. Nope no good.

BTW, it is why the flat tax would actually hit the rich hardest.

Yes churches are nothing but businesses I'll add charities to that list too

I thought you'd all giggly about getting rid of deductions for charity after all it's how all those rich assholes pay less in taxes

well that will really kill off the poor and needy.

I doubt that

who will give to charities? The rich keep the money coming in on charities, you take away that loophole goodbye to money going there. I'm just sayin, where would the money come from?

All charity INCOME would be taxed as well under the OP's plan. He is taxing GROSS INCOME.

Income to a business is the profit so yes you tax all the profit at a flat rate

Gross income is not just the profit.

 

[Norman]

Progressive income taxes are based on the subjective marginal utility analysis that basically says idiots in government can decide if you "need" all the money you make or not and that they are justified in taking the money they decide you don't "need"

Well all of you who love this type of blatantly unfair tax scheme I ask you why stop at income?

Why not use progressive tax schemes for everything that is taxed?

Let's say you own a 4 bedroom home but you and your wife have only 1 kid. You only "need" 2 bedrooms so some moron in your state government can decide that those 2 bedrooms must be taken from you and given to someone else and then inserts 2 people into your home because they "need" those rooms and you don't

What about a vacation home? Surely you don't "need" that if you only use it on occasion.

You and your wife have 2 cars and you have your dream car in the garage you don't need that classic 1969 GTO so why not let the government take it from you to give to someone who does "need" it

I bet that sounds like a great plan to some of you doesn't it?

Yes, this sounds like a truly revolutionary and insightful plan! Only my progressive hero, Marx, could have possibly dreamed of better... You must have had the vision straight from the man himself.

Let's all bend over and get F***ed (was the lube taxed away or not, surely it is not a necessity?). Awesome...