Why should there be “universal background checks” for firearms sales and transfers?

[woodwork201]

Other than the CIA smuggling drugs from Laos, I never heard of anything like that?
And exactly where does the authority to make drugs or guns legal come from?

The natural condition of both drugs and guns is to be legal and unregulated. The question to ask is not from where comes the authority to make them legal but, instead, from where comes the authority to make them illegal.

 

[Lesh]

The natural condition of both drugs and guns is to be legal and unregulated. The question to ask is not from where comes the authority to make them legal but, instead, from where comes the authority to make them illegal.

So you favor drugged up gun toters.

Wonderful

 

[woodwork201]

Why is that a bad thing. You have to register your friggin car…

Please just explain the government interest in gun registration.

Car registration serves the legal government function of taxation. You can't legally tax a constitutionally protected right, according to the Supreme Court, so, again, just explain what would be the government interest in gun registration.

 

[woodwork201]

Not a federal law, right?

Has the Supreme Court ruled UBCs to be unconstitutional? I kinda doubt it, nobody's right to bear arms is infringed unless there are reasons to do so, and there are a number of states that require background checks. Texas does, I had to pass a background check before I could purchase my guns.

You must have the modern printing version of the Constitution where it says, "Amendment 2. A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed, unless there's a damn good reason."

I only have that original version, you know, the one without the damn-good-reason clause in the 2nd Amendment. Can you provide a link to yours and then we can all be on the same page.

 

[woodwork201]

Not a federal law, right?

Has the Supreme Court ruled UBCs to be unconstitutional? I kinda doubt it, nobody's right to bear arms is infringed unless there are reasons to do so, and there are a number of states that require background checks. Texas does, I had to pass a background check before I could purchase my guns.

You must have the modern printing version of the Constitution where it says, "Amendment 2. A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed, unless there's a damn good reason."

I only have that original version, you know, the one without the damn-good-reason clause in the 2nd Amendment. Can you provide a link to yours and then we can all be on the same page.

 

[Lesh]

Please just explain the government interest in gun registration.

Car registration serves the legal government function of taxation. You can't legally tax a constitutionally protected right, according to the Supreme Court, so, again, just explain what would be the government interest in gun registration.

Public safety.
The same reason sawed off shot guns and machine guns are so heavily regulated

 

[2aguy]

Yea it does. Look at any first world country with strict gun regs

Pure fantasy

And yet the criminals in those countries easily get guns.....to the point the fully automatic military rifle, not the weapon of choice with American criminals....is the go to weapon for criminals across Europe....

Mass public shootings in europe have been worse than our worst mass public shootings......Norway, 67 by gun.....France...137 by fully automatic military rifles, more than even the Las Vegas shooting....60 killed.....

You can't explain why it is that Europe has any mass public shootings....Britain has a mass public shooting every 10 years...they had that rate before they banned guns, and they have that rate now.....after they banned guns they had the Cumbria shooting, and the Plymouth shooting......right on schedule....

Then...of course, you guys refuse to include the 15 million men, women and children murdered by the governments of Europe from 1939-1945........those murders out number all of our criminal gun murders in the U.S......ever....

Sweden...right now....is suffering under shootings and grenade attacks..with the criminals using fully automatic military rifles.....

You don't know what you are talking about......

 

[task0778]

You must have the modern printing version of the Constitution where it says, "Amendment 2. A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed, unless there's a damn good reason."

I only have that original version, you know, the one without the damn-good-reason clause in the 2nd Amendment. Can you provide a link to yours and then we can all be on the same page.

Every right listed in the Bill of Rights has it's limitations, including the 2nd Amendment. Which is why it is illegal for you to own bazookas, machine guns, etc. There is a federal law that requires background checks prior to purchasing a gun from any retailer, and so far that law has not been struck down. Meaning that while that is not specifically stated in the US Constitution it is nevertheless in effect. You might not like it, but that is a fact.

 

[woodwork201]

BC's are 10th amendment issues, not federal.

No, they're neither. They're 2nd Amendment issues. A background check assumes a government power to infringe on someone's right to keep and bear arms and neither the Federal nor the State governments have that authority.

 

[woodwork201]

Yeah, but what about online or at gun shows?

That's a lie they're feeding you and you've fallen for it, hook, line, and sinker. There's no online loophole. Online sales must be shipped to an FFL and a background check passed before delivery - with the single exception that makes it a private sale where, for instance, I advertise my gun on a site but we meet face-to-face to sell it so it's a private sale, not an online sale.

Most gunshow sales require a background check. A dealer cannot sell a gun at a gunshow without the same paperwork and process that they would do at their brick and mortar store front. If a private person, not a dealer, goes to a gun show and sells you a gun, just like if they met in his living room or the walmart parking lot, it's a private sale, not a gunshow sale. Gunshows are extremely careful about monitoring sellers to make sure the laws are complied with. If a private seller rents a table at multiple gunshows to the point that it's questionable whether they're just selling their collection or if they're actually in the business of selling, then the gunshow operator will ban them in a heartbeat.

I'm getting on in years and have a moderately-sized gun collection. I've been considering selling my collection. If I sell what I have today, at a gun show or in the Walmart parking lot or in my living room, those are private sales - no background check required. It's not a gunshow loophole.

I have one son-in-law that I probably wouldn't give a tourniquet to if he cut his leg off but he has one of my grandsons. I would consider transferring my collection to my grandson, and I might, but son-in-law and grandson are avid hunter type gunowners. They fire their rifles three times each fall to sight in their scopes, two more times each to get their limit on deer, and then put them away until the next season. Though they really do think they're protectors of the 2nd Amendment, they understand the real intent and meaning of the Amendment no more than most people here so I can't count on them to take seriously the responsibility of owning and defending the right to own black modern sporting rifles.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Lots of people are getting hurt now because you guys see no problem with periodic massacres.

Why do you constantly lie?

 

[candycorn]

The reason other countries don't have a second amendment is pretty close to what you're claiming but not exactly. What those countries fear is a population that has the ability to stand up to their tyranny. They see how the 2nd Amendment in the United States stands in the way of the communists and they definitely don't want that obstacle in their countries.

So, in your mind, every nation founded since 1787 has been a communist nation? Wow...that is really stupid.

 

[woodwork201]

hate to break it to you but I ain't giving my opinion, I'm looking at the law. Far as I can tell, every retail or online store that sells guns requires a background check. But that is not necessarily true for gun shows if the seller isn't an FFL holder.

Arizona is one of 33 states that do not require background checks for firearm sales at gun shows, according to the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. At least one other state, Missouri, will consider tightening its law for gun show sales this year.

www.governing.com/archive/gov-state-gun-show-loophole-laws-policies.html

It's not a gunshow loophole. If you want to call it a loophole, but it's not - it's by intention, it's a private sales loophole - whether the place buyer and seller meet is at a gunshow or in the living room of the seller. The gun controllers are after all private gun sales, not gunshow sales alone.

 

[candycorn]

That's a lie they're feeding you and you've fallen for it, hook, line, and sinker. There's no online loophole. Online sales must be shipped to an FFL and a background check passed before delivery - with the single exception that makes it a private sale where, for instance, I advertise my gun on a site but we meet face-to-face to sell it so it's a private sale, not an online sale.

Most gunshow sales require a background check. A dealer cannot sell a gun at a gunshow without the same paperwork and process that they would do at their brick and mortar store front. If a private person, not a dealer, goes to a gun show and sells you a gun, just like if they met in his living room or the walmart parking lot, it's a private sale, not a gunshow sale. Gunshows are extremely careful about monitoring sellers to make sure the laws are complied with. If a private seller rents a table at multiple gunshows to the point that it's questionable whether they're just selling their collection or if they're actually in the business of selling, then the gunshow operator will ban them in a heartbeat.

I'm getting on in years and have a moderately-sized gun collection. I've been considering selling my collection. If I sell what I have today, at a gun show or in the Walmart parking lot or in my living room, those are private sales - no background check required. It's not a gunshow loophole.

I have one son-in-law that I probably wouldn't give a tourniquet to if he cut his leg off but he has one of my grandsons. I would consider transferring my collection to my grandson, and I might, but son-in-law and grandson are avid hunter type gunowners. They fire their rifles three times each fall to sight in their scopes, two more times each to get their limit on deer, and then put them away until the next season. Though they really do think they're protectors of the 2nd Amendment, they understand the real intent and meaning of the Amendment no more than most people here so I can't count on them to take seriously the responsibility of owning and defending the right to own black modern sporting rifles.

 

[woodwork201]

How do you prove a gun not sold was or wasn’t used in a mass shooting

Stupid claim

Show where a gunshow purchased gun was ever used in a mass shooting.

 

[HandleTheTruth]

I see no good reason why a federal law should not be passed that requires a background check for any and every gun sold in a gun store, online, or gun show. Some states already do that, but IMHO every state should. Private sales are another matter, I don't think that can reasonably be done, BUT - if a crime is committed with a gun and the person with the gun has not passed a background check then that person should face additional penalties. I do not see how the 2nd Amendment rights of any law-abiding citizen would suffer under such a law. If I bought a gun via a private sale then I should make sure I have had a background check on myself done, and in fact there should be a website where anyone can do that. Moreover, if a gun owner discovers that any of his/her guns is missing then that person should file a report with the local police.

Look - there's no easy answer to the problem of gun violence and mass shootings. UBCs are not going to solve the problem, nobody is saying otherwise. But it can't hurt and if we keep a gun out of the hands of even one deranged shooter then isn't it worth it? I'm a gun owner myself, I passed a background check without issue, so why shouldn't every other wannabe gun owner do the same thing?

I agree with you.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

And there are solutions that don't include violations of law abiding citizens Constitutional rights, but you loons don't want to hear them. This isn't about protecting the people. It's about disarming them.

They aren't interested in solutions, just in chipping away at our constitutional rights.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Okay...what are they?

Securing the schools and controlled entry points along with an immediate armed response if someone tries.

 

[woodwork201]

Oooh......ooooh......pick me......pick me!!!!!

Ahem......well........errrrrr........

Background checks won't stop mass public shootings.....because a mass public shooter can pass any background check, or they will commit murder to steal the guns they need......or they will use a straw buyer to get the gun they need.......

Including killing their own mother to get a gun that they otherwise didn't have access to.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

It makes it harder to get a gun. That is progress.

Again, it makes it harder to kill someone. Thats a win.

Fewer guns = fewer gun deaths.

It's easier to buy a gun illegally than it is to buy them legally. You need to rethink your premises.