Why would a God even need a hell?

[Vigilante]

If there is anything to organized religion, this agnostic feels real good about this....

 

[Mickiel]

If one of the fruits of the spirit is gentleness, why would a God need a hell?

 

[Mickiel]

If religion can get the masses to swallow their foolish eternal hell doctrine, just think how powerful they really are; able to get into the average human consciousness and plant suggestions that become historical physcology .

 

[Mickiel]

I think the real hidden message to humanity, is that we all; all of us, will be with this Great God in his eternity forever! And that this is our real destiny which cannot be stopped; and its free, none of the charges religion puts on it apply.

 

[Mickiel]

Why would God need a hell, why would he magnify the perversions of religion?

 

[hadit]

3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? 4 Not at all! Let God be tru

entrusted with the very words of God.
e, and every human being a liar. As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge."

You should be able to easily see that the Scripture clearly refers to the Jews, being given that great blessing in the Word of God, cannot nullify God's faithfulness with their unfaithfulness. IOW, the messenger cannot destroy the message. Note that, again, God being the judge and judging is referenced. Your "theology" requires that God NOT be judge, but simply ignore every person's free choice to reject Him. That is not Biblical, as I have demonstrated multiple times. You have to deal with God's judgement of mankind.
You ignore things like this, from Rev 20:

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave ]

See religions are primed to condemn a lot of people, because THEY must see humans punished harshly; THEY NEED to see unbelievers made to pay, for what Christ has already paid the price for. Many believers themselves have become the biggest roadblock to unbelievers. Again Jesus in Matt. 23:13, " For woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, ( or believers), for you " Shut up the Kingdom from men." Jesus meant they were teaching things that limit his Kingdom from people. These believers, ( because the Scribes and Pharisees were believers in God), had a condemning mindset, they were so self righteous, they could see themselves in the Kingdom, and see others out.

And notice verse 15, a stunning revelation from Jesus that these believers would take the converts from their churches and make them " Twice the child of hell than they were." Teaching them this eternal hell punishing mess.

Dude, again you're ignoring the clear import of Scripture that God is judge and will judge mankind. No one takes joy in the condemnation of others. Think about what you're saying. You're saying that Jesus' commandments to take His Gospel to the world doesn't matter, that His command to make disciples of all people doesn't matter. Why would it, if there is no eternal consequence for sin? You have to deal with things like the Great White Throne judgement, the clear passages where people ARE thrown into the lake of fire, etc, before you can make that claim. Thus far, you've ignored them.

I am not ignoring scripture, I am ignoring your view of it, because I hold to a totally differing view. You salvation sight is sorely limited. I disagree that God will judge the world. John 5:22, " For the Father Judges no man, but has given all judgment to the Son." God is NOT going to judge humans. Now, Jesus clearly taught in John 12:47 that he came not to judge humanity. Your judgment mentality was created by religion, not by the bible.

Like I said, you're ignoring the very Scripture you quote. In fact, the very next verse. From John 12:

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

Now, if no one will be condemned, why did Jesus say they WILL be condemned?

 

[hadit]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

If God is to be righteous, then there has to be a place for unrighteousness to reside.

That place is hell.

That is true. If there is to a choice, there have to be consequences. Otherwise, no choice. We all ultimately get what we desire, eternity with God, or without. What gets in the way for a lot of people is they want the rewards of being with God while still rebelling against Him.

 

[hobelim]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

If God is to be righteous, then there has to be a place for unrighteousness to reside.

That place is hell.

That is true. If there is to a choice, there have to be consequences. Otherwise, no choice. We all ultimately get what we desire, eternity with God, or without. What gets in the way for a lot of people is they want the rewards of being with God while still rebelling against Him.

If heaven is an eternal sphere of all that is good, life, love, understanding, peace, joy, etc., then hell would be a lower realm of conscious existence defined by the absence of all that is good, the absence of life, love, understanding, peace, joy, etc.

Its not a place for the unrighteous it a state of confusion for failing to stand guard over the purity of ones own mind and adopting irrational beliefs and degrading practices that distort and pervert perception of actual reality making rational thought, understanding and peace impossible.

Once a person departs from the land of rational thought becomes confused and loses their mind with what can they get it back?

 

[Mickiel]

There are no choices with God. We had no choice with being alive , there is no choice with death; there is no choice in salvation; we all make it; period.

 

[hadit]

There are no choices with God. We had no choice with being alive , there is no choice with death; there is no choice in salvation; we all make it; period.

Not according to Scripture, we don't.

 

[Mickiel]

There are no choices with God. We had no choice with being alive , there is no choice with death; there is no choice in salvation; we all make it; period.

Not according to Scripture, we don't.

We all have sinned, but all that sin is laid on Christ, Is. 53:6. In Is. 45:23 God swears to save everyone; no religion can stop him.

 

[hadit]

There are no choices with God. We had no choice with being alive , there is no choice with death; there is no choice in salvation; we all make it; period.

Not according to Scripture, we don't.

We all have sinned, but all that sin is laid on Christ, Is. 53:6. In Is. 45:23 God swears to save everyone; no religion can stop him.

You still haven't dealt with all those Scriptures I posted where God clearly rejects people. Until you do that, you won't convince anyone.

Answer this one. If there is no need to do so, why are we commanded to repent and be baptized?

 

[hobelim]

There are no choices with God. We had no choice with being alive , there is no choice with death; there is no choice in salvation; we all make it; period.

Not according to Scripture, we don't.

We all have sinned, but all that sin is laid on Christ, Is. 53:6. In Is. 45:23 God swears to save everyone; no religion can stop him.

You still haven't dealt with all those Scriptures I posted where God clearly rejects people. Until you do that, you won't convince anyone.

Answer this one. If there is no need to do so, why are we commanded to repent and be baptized?

Even Jesus said that no one is lost but the one consigned to destruction because scripture must be fulfilled.

That potentially could add up to a lot of people.

 

[hadit]

There are no choices with God. We had no choice with being alive , there is no choice with death; there is no choice in salvation; we all make it; period.

Not according to Scripture, we don't.

We all have sinned, but all that sin is laid on Christ, Is. 53:6. In Is. 45:23 God swears to save everyone; no religion can stop him.

You still haven't dealt with all those Scriptures I posted where God clearly rejects people. Until you do that, you won't convince anyone.

Answer this one. If there is no need to do so, why are we commanded to repent and be baptized?

Even Jesus said that no one is lost but the one consigned to destruction because scripture must be fulfilled.

That potentially could add up to a lot of people.

Would you be referring to this passage in John 17?

11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of[a] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

13 “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.

I do believe He was referring to His disciples, and the one that was lost was Judas.

 

[hobelim]

There are no choices with God. We had no choice with being alive , there is no choice with death; there is no choice in salvation; we all make it; period.

Not according to Scripture, we don't.

We all have sinned, but all that sin is laid on Christ, Is. 53:6. In Is. 45:23 God swears to save everyone; no religion can stop him.

You still haven't dealt with all those Scriptures I posted where God clearly rejects people. Until you do that, you won't convince anyone.

Answer this one. If there is no need to do so, why are we commanded to repent and be baptized?

Even Jesus said that no one is lost but the one consigned to destruction because scripture must be fulfilled.

That potentially could add up to a lot of people.

Would you be referring to this passage in John 17?

11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of[a] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

13 “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.

I do believe He was referring to His disciples, and the one that was lost was Judas.

Yes, and there is a Judas in every bunch........

The point being that the one doomed to destruction is doomed to destruction because scripture must be fulfilled which does not just apply to only Judas.

"do this and you will live, do that and you will surely die."

 

[Mickiel]

There are no choices with God. We had no choice with being alive , there is no choice with death; there is no choice in salvation; we all make it; period.

Not according to Scripture, we don't.

We all have sinned, but all that sin is laid on Christ, Is. 53:6. In Is. 45:23 God swears to save everyone; no religion can stop him.

You still haven't dealt with all those Scriptures I posted where God clearly rejects people. Until you do that, you won't convince anyone.

Answer this one. If there is no need to do so, why are we commanded to repent and be baptized?

Even Jesus said that no one is lost but the one consigned to destruction because scripture must be fulfilled.

That potentially could add up to a lot of people.

Would you be referring to this passage in John 17?

11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of[a] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

13 “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.

I do believe He was referring to His disciples, and the one that was lost was Judas.

T have never read a scripture that claims Judas will not be saved.

 

[Mickiel]

There are so many people, so many religions that always seek to find ways to condemn people to some hell to some place that God will not be; its habitual short sighted judgmental learned behavior. In Luke 2:30, " For my eyes have seen your salvation." Its a wonderful freeing thing for a human to finally see the salvation of God; I have seen a peek of it.

Behold; Luke 3:6, " And ALL flesh shall see the salvation of God!"

All of us are destined to see it! And God is not the kind of being to show you something that you cannot have. Don't you believe that about him.

 

[hobelim]

There are so many people, so many religions that always seek to find ways to condemn people to some hell to some place that God will not be; its habitual short sighted judgmental learned behavior. In Luke 2:30, " For my eyes have seen your salvation." Its a wonderful freeing thing for a human to finally see the salvation of God; I have seen a peek of it.

Behold; Luke 3:6, " And ALL flesh shall see the salvation of God!"

All of us are destined to see it! And God is not the kind of being to show you something that you cannot have. Don't you believe that about him.

"Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come." Matthew 12:32

 

[Mickiel]

There are so many people, so many religions that always seek to find ways to condemn people to some hell to some place that God will not be; its habitual short sighted judgmental learned behavior. In Luke 2:30, " For my eyes have seen your salvation." Its a wonderful freeing thing for a human to finally see the salvation of God; I have seen a peek of it.

Behold; Luke 3:6, " And ALL flesh shall see the salvation of God!"

All of us are destined to see it! And God is not the kind of being to show you something that you cannot have. Don't you believe that about him.

"Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come." Matthew 12:32

Mark 3:28 , again Jesus teaching, " ALL sins and blasphemies shall be forgiven men." All of them, in 1 John 3:5 Jesus took all sin away, no Christian can bring any of them back and try to condemn someone.

Now this so called " unforgivable sin", sinning against the Holy Spirit, there are exactly zero example of just how to do that given in scripture; so in my view, its impossible for a person to do it.

Your just going to have to find another way to condemn.

 

[Mickiel]

The sick concept of eternal hell punishing is just religious mans effort to try and make God seem as sick as man.