Working Hard really doesn't pay off in the workplace

[Unkotare]

I prefer to stop caring and let them let me go so I can collect unemployment while looking for another job.

Loser.

I'm not a loser........

Your own words reveal you as such.

Not really......

You are marked by your own words and repeated attitude.

 

[Moonglow]

I've found a way to get out of the doldrums of being a wage slaving corporate tool...Self employment...

Good for you! Now you can be your own boss, work 7 days a week and pay for your own benefits. You make less and work harder just to be your own boss.

Should every worker quit and start their own business? That would certainly bring wages up

Funny I'm my own boss and I work less now and make more.

Being self employed sucks you have to have people working for you.

People that think they should be paid your wage to be surly...

 

[Moonglow]

I've found a way to get out of the doldrums of being a wage slaving corporate tool...Self employment...

Good for you! Now you can be your own boss, work 7 days a week and pay for your own benefits. You make less and work harder just to be your own boss.

Should every worker quit and start their own business? That would certainly bring wages up

I also make 3-4 times the dough...

 

[sealybobo]

I've found a way to get out of the doldrums of being a wage slaving corporate tool...Self employment...

Good for you! Now you can be your own boss, work 7 days a week and pay for your own benefits. You make less and work harder just to be your own boss.

Should every worker quit and start their own business? That would certainly bring wages up

Funny I'm my own boss and I work less now and make more.

Being self employed sucks you have to have people working for you.

People that think they should be paid your wage to be surly...

Sometimes the worker running the place makes more than the owner but the owner has multiple locations so he gets a cut of every location.

My buddy owns UPS stores. He makes $20k off one of his locations but the woman who runs it makes $40k

 

[sealybobo]

I prefer to stop caring and let them let me go so I can collect unemployment while looking for another job.

Loser.

I'm not a loser........

Your own words reveal you as such.

Not really......

You are marked by your own words and repeated attitude.

So are you arrogant asshole

 

[sealybobo]

I would never take a sales job because it's a SINK or SWIM position which is not the type of job I want when trying to maintain independence. Too unstable

Sales is a great choice if you can do it.
Sales people often make more money than their bosses. It is a job where you are in total control of your own revenue. It is also a job with the greatest chance of climbing the ladder.

My president is getting transferred back to England. He didn't make one of the engineers his replacement he gave that job to one of us salespeople

 

[IsaacNewton]

Can you say - millennial? I think you need to change your screen name.

The knock on millennials is that they are unwilling to work hard and expect everything. That is generally true of everyone but why should people work hard and not what they get WHAT THEY WANT OUT OF IT. My employer expects to get what he wants out of the deal so why can't I. I wish workers in this country were more demanding so that wages would go up.

That attitude is exactly why adults can't stand slack-ass losers like you.

A ridiculous statement. Any job is an agreement between the two parties. If the employer isn't one that rewards someone that busts their ass to do their job well, thereby helping the company's bottom line, then it is time to find a job where they do. The reality is though, that favoritism is the rule rather than the exception in moderately sized to larger companies. The middle-management is corrupted to serve themselves and their friends and the upper-management let's them do what they want as long as they don't get any blowback.

The world isn't a 'model' economy or a movie, where "if you just go out and try your darndest you'll get rewarded for it". The real world in larger companies is a lot of the time about weak minded people that get into a position of management and then set about hiring their family and friends, other weak minded people who couldn't possibly get those jobs by their own ability, and corrupting the entire company. Once these people have had enough time to pack their department with subordinates that are 'on board' with their corruption it turns the company into a stagnant 'job for my pals', no innovation, mediocre company. The truly capable people see there is no sense in busting your ass and start doing the bare minimum. Most of the real talent leaves.

There are companies where the President or CEO keeps a close eye on corruption and where ability is rewarded. In the real world these companies are the exception rather than the rule. The human race is populated with lazy people of mediocre ability, sorry its true, who once ONE of them gets into a posititon of authority begins the company on a path to stagnation and mediocrity.

So for people that are motivated and good at what they do the task is to get hired somewhere and find out which way the company swings. If it is populated by the corrupt, you move on to a new job and try again.

I've seen enough of corporate America and moderate to large companies to know most of them are corrupt to some degree. That is the economic reality.

And of course if you can start your own successful business and bypass this bullshit all the better. But let us see reality for what it is.

Sorry this is way too long I know.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Can you say - millennial? I think you need to change your screen name.

The knock on millennials is that they are unwilling to work hard and expect everything. That is generally true of everyone but why should people work hard and not what they get WHAT THEY WANT OUT OF IT. My employer expects to get what he wants out of the deal so why can't I. I wish workers in this country were more demanding so that wages would go up.

That attitude is exactly why adults can't stand slack-ass losers like you.

A ridiculous statement. Any job is an agreement between the two parties. If the employer isn't one that rewards someone that busts their ass to do their job well, thereby helping the company's bottom line, then it is time to find a job where they do. The reality is though, that favoritism is the rule rather than the exception in moderately sized to larger companies. The middle-management is corrupted to serve themselves and their friends and the upper-management let's them do what they want as long as they don't get any blowback.

The world isn't a 'model' economy or a movie, where "if you just go out and try your darndest you'll get rewarded for it". The real world in larger companies is a lot of the time about weak minded people that get into a position of management and then set about hiring their family and friends, other weak minded people who couldn't possibly get those jobs by their own ability, and corrupting the entire company. Once these people have had enough time to pack their department with subordinates that are 'on board' with their corruption it turns the company into a stagnant 'job for my pals', no innovation, mediocre company. The truly capable people see there is no sense in busting your ass and start doing the bare minimum. Most of the real talent leaves.

There are companies where the President or CEO keeps a close eye on corruption and where ability is rewarded. In the real world these companies are the exception rather than the rule. The human race is populated with lazy people of mediocre ability, sorry its true, who once ONE of them gets into a posititon of authority begins the company on a path to stagnation and mediocrity.

So for people that are motivated and good at what they do the task is to get hired somewhere and find out which way the company swings. If it is populated by the corrupt, you move on to a new job and try again.

I've seen enough of corporate America and moderate to large companies to know most of them are corrupt to some degree. That is the economic reality.

And of course if you can start your own successful business and bypass this bullshit all the better. But let us see reality for what it is.

Sorry this is way too long I know.

Pretty good post, only thing I would add is that an employer should not have to constantly reward people for "bustin their ass". An employee should always bust their ass. I am serious.
I started my career in the newspaper business, at a time when newspapers were a good business.
My first job there I was paid $6.50 an hour. (1986) I was part-time. I worked way harder than $6.50 an hour and i made it my business - to learn the business. I offered help to other departments, asked if I could attend meetings and just sit in a corner and say nothing. I got no raise and nothing happened despite everything... until about a year later... I was made full time. In five years I became the youngest Dept. head in the corporations history. 56 properties, most in excess of 200 employees.
A good manager/owner is not going to create a position out of thin air. One has to come available first. If you work hard for six months, nothing happens and you get frustrated and zone out...then everything you did is erased....that is just the way it is. You have to stay at it, and if you pay attention you will learn a lot along the way.
It takes time. You have to MAKE yourself valuable...too valuable to be ignored.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Can you say - millennial? I think you need to change your screen name.

The knock on millennials is that they are unwilling to work hard and expect everything. That is generally true of everyone but why should people work hard and not what they get WHAT THEY WANT OUT OF IT. My employer expects to get what he wants out of the deal so why can't I. I wish workers in this country were more demanding so that wages would go up.

That attitude is exactly why adults can't stand slack-ass losers like you.

A ridiculous statement. Any job is an agreement between the two parties. If the employer isn't one that rewards someone that busts their ass to do their job well, thereby helping the company's bottom line, then it is time to find a job where they do. The reality is though, that favoritism is the rule rather than the exception in moderately sized to larger companies. The middle-management is corrupted to serve themselves and their friends and the upper-management let's them do what they want as long as they don't get any blowback.

The world isn't a 'model' economy or a movie, where "if you just go out and try your darndest you'll get rewarded for it". The real world in larger companies is a lot of the time about weak minded people that get into a position of management and then set about hiring their family and friends, other weak minded people who couldn't possibly get those jobs by their own ability, and corrupting the entire company. Once these people have had enough time to pack their department with subordinates that are 'on board' with their corruption it turns the company into a stagnant 'job for my pals', no innovation, mediocre company. The truly capable people see there is no sense in busting your ass and start doing the bare minimum. Most of the real talent leaves.

There are companies where the President or CEO keeps a close eye on corruption and where ability is rewarded. In the real world these companies are the exception rather than the rule. The human race is populated with lazy people of mediocre ability, sorry its true, who once ONE of them gets into a posititon of authority begins the company on a path to stagnation and mediocrity.

So for people that are motivated and good at what they do the task is to get hired somewhere and find out which way the company swings. If it is populated by the corrupt, you move on to a new job and try again.

I've seen enough of corporate America and moderate to large companies to know most of them are corrupt to some degree. That is the economic reality.

And of course if you can start your own successful business and bypass this bullshit all the better. But let us see reality for what it is.

Sorry this is way too long I know.

Pretty good post, only thing I would add is that an employer should not have to constantly reward people for "bustin their ass". An employee should always bust their ass. I am serious.
I started my career in the newspaper business, at a time when newspapers were a good business.
My first job there I was paid $6.50 an hour. (1986) I was part-time. I worked way harder than $6.50 an hour and i made it my business - to learn the business. I offered help to other departments, asked if I could attend meetings and just sit in a corner and say nothing. I got no raise and nothing happened despite everything... until about a year later... I was made full time. In five years I became the youngest Dept. head in the corporations history. 56 properties, most in excess of 200 employees.
A good manager/owner is not going to create a position out of thin air. One has to come available first. If you work hard for six months, nothing happens and you get frustrated and zone out...then everything you did is erased....that is just the way it is. You have to stay at it, and if you pay attention you will learn a lot along the way.
It takes time. You have to MAKE yourself valuable...too valuable to be ignored.

No doubt there are some companies where ability, perseverance, and passion are rewarded which I stated. If you do find one of these companies you will find yourself in a job that you don't consider work, you get up every morning and are motivated because you know when you get to work you are valued. This is most prevalent in smaller companies where the owner HAS to keep an eye on productivity and innovation and the best people are rewarded for busting their ass.

It is once a company gets past a certain size that lethargy and upper management leaving all the daily stuff to subordinates comes into play.

I also bust my ass at every job. I had two paper routes when I was younger, I was always moving. And every job I've had I learned quickly, became ultra-proficient at it, and looked constantly for ways to save time/money on the job. Again, in smaller companies the reward was many times very large very quickly. Smaller companies are like jack rabbits, nimble and always eyes open. One or two excellent employees can really up the bottom line at a smaller company.

Moderate and larger companies are like ocean liners. Very hard to move one way or the other, the captain rarely goes down to the engine room and the worst ones don't want to hear about what goes on down there, the people in the front don't know or care what the people in the back are doing. And most management views the company as having huge assets so their main focus is on getting a cushy luxury cabin.

 

[gipper]

That is so true. In very large corporations, the C level seldom involve themselves in making sure the culture of the company is fair and rewarding to those who succeed. This failure often leads to lower level managers being yes men and brown noses. They will mistreat those who report to them, as they are in constant fear of being replaced by anyone who excels. If senior management does not control this, it will grow and fester resulting in good people leaving the company and those who stay being mediocre.

Google had this slogan years ago, 'don't be evil.' While it may not have pertained to the company's internal culture or management style, it should be instilled in all managers.

 

[gipper]

Can you say - millennial? I think you need to change your screen name.

The knock on millennials is that they are unwilling to work hard and expect everything. That is generally true of everyone but why should people work hard and not what they get WHAT THEY WANT OUT OF IT. My employer expects to get what he wants out of the deal so why can't I. I wish workers in this country were more demanding so that wages would go up.

That attitude is exactly why adults can't stand slack-ass losers like you.

A ridiculous statement. Any job is an agreement between the two parties. If the employer isn't one that rewards someone that busts their ass to do their job well, thereby helping the company's bottom line, then it is time to find a job where they do. The reality is though, that favoritism is the rule rather than the exception in moderately sized to larger companies. The middle-management is corrupted to serve themselves and their friends and the upper-management let's them do what they want as long as they don't get any blowback.

The world isn't a 'model' economy or a movie, where "if you just go out and try your darndest you'll get rewarded for it". The real world in larger companies is a lot of the time about weak minded people that get into a position of management and then set about hiring their family and friends, other weak minded people who couldn't possibly get those jobs by their own ability, and corrupting the entire company. Once these people have had enough time to pack their department with subordinates that are 'on board' with their corruption it turns the company into a stagnant 'job for my pals', no innovation, mediocre company. The truly capable people see there is no sense in busting your ass and start doing the bare minimum. Most of the real talent leaves.

There are companies where the President or CEO keeps a close eye on corruption and where ability is rewarded. In the real world these companies are the exception rather than the rule. The human race is populated with lazy people of mediocre ability, sorry its true, who once ONE of them gets into a posititon of authority begins the company on a path to stagnation and mediocrity.

So for people that are motivated and good at what they do the task is to get hired somewhere and find out which way the company swings. If it is populated by the corrupt, you move on to a new job and try again.

I've seen enough of corporate America and moderate to large companies to know most of them are corrupt to some degree. That is the economic reality.

And of course if you can start your own successful business and bypass this bullshit all the better. But let us see reality for what it is.

Sorry this is way too long I know.

That is so true. In very large corporations, the C level seldom involve themselves in making sure the culture of the company is fair and rewarding to those who succeed. This failure often leads to lower level managers being yes men and brown noses. They will mistreat those who report to them, as they are in constant fear of being replaced by anyone who excels. If senior management does not control this, it will grow and fester resulting in good people leaving the company and those who stay being mediocre.

Google had this slogan years ago, 'don't be evil.' While it may not have pertained to the company's internal culture or management style, it should be instilled in all managers.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[IsaacNewton]

"This failure often leads to lower level managers being yes men and brown noses. They will mistreat those who report to them, as they are in constant fear of being replaced by anyone who excels. If senior management does not control this, it will grow and fester resulting in good people leaving the company and those who stay being mediocre. "

And that is really the problem. Middle management that is scared all the time for their job because they aren't really the 'best' person to be in that position because they are a family member or 'friend' of the upper manager or VP that appointed them. These mediocre middle management always move towards promoting people that are inferior to themselves and who will never challenge them. This is how a department gets packed with corrupt mediocre people. Corrupt people always hire other corrupt people so their own position is secured. And they tell the people they promote "you have my back and I'll have yours". And it brings down the entire department and slowly slides the company into mediocre performance.

The worst case scenario is when these people are given the authority to hand out bonuses. Its like giving Al Capone tens of thousands of dollars in free bribe money.

 

[gipper]

"This failure often leads to lower level managers being yes men and brown noses. They will mistreat those who report to them, as they are in constant fear of being replaced by anyone who excels. If senior management does not control this, it will grow and fester resulting in good people leaving the company and those who stay being mediocre. "

And that is really the problem. Middle management that is scared all the time for their job because they aren't really the 'best' person to be in that position because they are a family member or 'friend' of the upper manager or VP that appointed them. These mediocre middle management always move towards promoting people that are inferior to themselves and who will never challenge them. This is how a department gets packed with corrupt mediocre people. Corrupt people always hire other corrupt people so their own position is secured. And they tell the people they promote "you have my back and I'll have yours". And it brings down the entire department and slowly slides the company into mediocre performance.

The worst case scenario is when these people are given the authority to hand out bonuses. Its like giving Al Capone tens of thousands of dollars in free bribe money.

I agree completely. Your comment on bonuses is so true. I worked in a fortune 500 firm for over decade. The director of our group was given bonus money every year with zero oversight. He generally kept half for himself, though he did almost nothing to generate revenue. The rest went to his favorites with no regard to productivity and senior management did nothing about it.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

"This failure often leads to lower level managers being yes men and brown noses. They will mistreat those who report to them, as they are in constant fear of being replaced by anyone who excels. If senior management does not control this, it will grow and fester resulting in good people leaving the company and those who stay being mediocre. "

And that is really the problem. Middle management that is scared all the time for their job because they aren't really the 'best' person to be in that position because they are a family member or 'friend' of the upper manager or VP that appointed them. These mediocre middle management always move towards promoting people that are inferior to themselves and who will never challenge them. This is how a department gets packed with corrupt mediocre people. Corrupt people always hire other corrupt people so their own position is secured. And they tell the people they promote "you have my back and I'll have yours". And it brings down the entire department and slowly slides the company into mediocre performance.

The worst case scenario is when these people are given the authority to hand out bonuses. Its like giving Al Capone tens of thousands of dollars in free bribe money.

I agree completely. Your comment on bonuses is so true. I worked in a fortune 500 firm for over decade. The director of our group was given bonus money every year with zero oversight. He generally kept half for himself, though he did almost nothing to generate revenue. The rest went to his favorites with no regard to productivity and senior management did nothing about it.

Such is corporatism.
For the past 25 years senior management and board members have engorged themselves with ever increasing wages and bonus structures that they literally make enough money in one year that no matter what happens - they are set for life. Corporate leaders are completely detached from reality. And that includes the reality of the business itself. They have no personal connection with anyone in the organization that is outside of their inner circle.
I worked for a corporation for 13 years that had 56 properties, all multi-$million earners...I ran two of the locations...I never even MET a single board member. Never met or even spoke to the CFO, or CEO... and I ran two of their companies!!! As long as the trial balance each month looked up to snuff - you never heard a peep from these people. So yes, it is easy within this kind of business structure for corruption to exist.

 

[gipper]

"This failure often leads to lower level managers being yes men and brown noses. They will mistreat those who report to them, as they are in constant fear of being replaced by anyone who excels. If senior management does not control this, it will grow and fester resulting in good people leaving the company and those who stay being mediocre. "

And that is really the problem. Middle management that is scared all the time for their job because they aren't really the 'best' person to be in that position because they are a family member or 'friend' of the upper manager or VP that appointed them. These mediocre middle management always move towards promoting people that are inferior to themselves and who will never challenge them. This is how a department gets packed with corrupt mediocre people. Corrupt people always hire other corrupt people so their own position is secured. And they tell the people they promote "you have my back and I'll have yours". And it brings down the entire department and slowly slides the company into mediocre performance.

The worst case scenario is when these people are given the authority to hand out bonuses. Its like giving Al Capone tens of thousands of dollars in free bribe money.

I agree completely. Your comment on bonuses is so true. I worked in a fortune 500 firm for over decade. The director of our group was given bonus money every year with zero oversight. He generally kept half for himself, though he did almost nothing to generate revenue. The rest went to his favorites with no regard to productivity and senior management did nothing about it.

Such is corporatism.
For the past 25 years senior management and board members have engorged themselves with ever increasing wages and bonus structures that they literally make enough money in one year that no matter what happens - they are set for life. Corporate leaders are completely detached from reality. And that includes the reality of the business itself. They have no personal connection with anyone in the organization that is outside of their inner circle.
I worked for a corporation for 13 years that had 56 properties, all multi-$million earners...I ran two of the locations...I never even MET a single board member. Never met or even spoke to the CFO, or CEO... and I ran two of their companies!!! As long as the trial balance each month looked up to snuff - you never heard a peep from these people. So yes, it is easy within this kind of business structure for corruption to exist.

It is the exception for a CEO/President of a large corp to make sure the culture in the company is effective and fair. They don't appear to have any interest in knowing about work conditions in middle management.

The big firm I worked for imposed a set of written ethical standards of conduct on all employees. We had to sign it or leave the firm. Funny thing is some years later I was aware of unethical behavior by one of the senior managers I reported to. I reported it and was summarily fired. HR did nothing for me and the HR manager even said he would not go up against my boss. Several of my co-workers went to HR backing my position, but were warned to shut up or be fired.

The great book Good To Great discusses corporate culture and corruption. The author shows how great companies have senior leadership that is involved with all aspects of the company and how the CEO/President are usually long time employees who love the company and are not merely there to make huge money for themselves.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

It has been my experience in life that working hard doesn't really pay off that much. The raises you get are not that much for the effort you put out to get one sometimes so I figure what is the point of all that hard work. Don't get me wrong. One should definitely work hard towards the goals they have in life because sometimes it is the only thing one can do in life but in work it rarely does. The amount of energy you put in usually doesn't equal the amount you get back in pay.

What does pay off is 'kissing ass'. I'm going to say this just once. Kissing ass works way better than working hard. Your bosses will think you are an awesome person because you say something nice to them. It is a little humiliating to but it works. You don't have to go overboard with it but it does work. It would be nice to live in a world where work alone will determine your success in the workplace but all your hard work will not pay off if YOUR BOSS HATES YOUR GUTS!

There is nothing in the world you can do at that point because your boss will never give you a break on anything. You may think your supervisor like you but they are playing the same game with you that you with them which is you pretend to be nice to everyone so your work thinks you are a team player. They won't say whether or not they hate you or not just like they won't say that to you so don't fool yourself into thinking that they like you because they happen to greet you when you come into work. Don't you do the same with employees that you don't like?

Your boss could be prejudice against you. I'm not talking about the race, religion, sexual orientation, etc, etc, but she could really hate short ugly men. Maybe your hair was messed up one day or you happen to have bad BO. It is all pretty superficial but it is f'n true. Human nature is pretty superficial. It is the reason we don't go outside in our underwear. We don't want other people to think we are retarded because we happen to go outside in the most efficient clothing style for how weather (maximizing skin surface area to cool you off).

Some people can look pass the superficialness and see the real you. Isn't it wonderful that those people exist? They don't exist at work. In fact, being judged by totally superficial standards seems to increase ten fold at work. A college degree gets you into higher places but people with college degrees can be pretty stupid sometimes as highlighted by videos where college graduates didn't know who christopher columbus is (they know who Karl Marx is though).

Lets not forget what your fellow co-workers will say about you. They hate you too! I'm not fucking kidding on this. They hate you as well and won't tell you. When you are about to get fired they will know and then they will unleash all the hate they wanted to unleash on you at that point. It then snowballs because they tell other people how much you suck as human being. They minute you say anything bad about them they accuse you of engaging in rumors. What the fuck have they been doing for the last five years with your life?

That is another thing. God damn hypocrisy of other human beings just seems rather unfair. They can rip into you 24/7 but the minute you say anything about them then they cry foul to the HR department. They are always the fuckin victim of you the minute you do the same shit they have been doing to you. Don't even bother hoping that HR will solve your issues in your favor. Don't waste your time. Occassionally you might run into one that really does help you but that is only because they are gay and they like you or you happen to be a hot babe that he wants to screw.

That is the only way you get anything special from your supervisor. The rule of thumb is hope you have a gay supervisor or you are a super hot chick. Then you get anything you ever want from them. Don't work hard just be sexy and the whole world will come to you because of universal law number 1 of human nature which is everyone wants to screw.

Dont work in a right to work state do you?

 

[IsaacNewton]

"This failure often leads to lower level managers being yes men and brown noses. They will mistreat those who report to them, as they are in constant fear of being replaced by anyone who excels. If senior management does not control this, it will grow and fester resulting in good people leaving the company and those who stay being mediocre. "

And that is really the problem. Middle management that is scared all the time for their job because they aren't really the 'best' person to be in that position because they are a family member or 'friend' of the upper manager or VP that appointed them. These mediocre middle management always move towards promoting people that are inferior to themselves and who will never challenge them. This is how a department gets packed with corrupt mediocre people. Corrupt people always hire other corrupt people so their own position is secured. And they tell the people they promote "you have my back and I'll have yours". And it brings down the entire department and slowly slides the company into mediocre performance.

The worst case scenario is when these people are given the authority to hand out bonuses. Its like giving Al Capone tens of thousands of dollars in free bribe money.

I agree completely. Your comment on bonuses is so true. I worked in a fortune 500 firm for over decade. The director of our group was given bonus money every year with zero oversight. He generally kept half for himself, though he did almost nothing to generate revenue. The rest went to his favorites with no regard to productivity and senior management did nothing about it.

Such is corporatism.
For the past 25 years senior management and board members have engorged themselves with ever increasing wages and bonus structures that they literally make enough money in one year that no matter what happens - they are set for life. Corporate leaders are completely detached from reality. And that includes the reality of the business itself. They have no personal connection with anyone in the organization that is outside of their inner circle.
I worked for a corporation for 13 years that had 56 properties, all multi-$million earners...I ran two of the locations...I never even MET a single board member. Never met or even spoke to the CFO, or CEO... and I ran two of their companies!!! As long as the trial balance each month looked up to snuff - you never heard a peep from these people. So yes, it is easy within this kind of business structure for corruption to exist.

It is the exception for a CEO/President of a large corp to make sure the culture in the company is effective and fair. They don't appear to have any interest in knowing about work conditions in middle management.

The big firm I worked for imposed a set of written ethical standards of conduct on all employees. We had to sign it or leave the firm. Funny thing is some years later I was aware of unethical behavior by one of the senior managers I reported to. I reported it and was summarily fired. HR did nothing for me and the HR manager even said he would not go up against my boss. Several of my co-workers went to HR backing my position, but were warned to shut up or be fired.

The great book Good To Great discusses corporate culture and corruption. The author shows how great companies have senior leadership that is involved with all aspects of the company and how the CEO/President are usually long time employees who love the company and are not merely there to make huge money for themselves.

Companies work up and print 'acceptable conduct' type of guidelines for employees but they are only for show. They exist so the company's lawyers can say 'see, we have this, they acted against company policy'.

But you are right, upper management generally ignores this and does whatever it wants. And as you note as soon as someone says 'hey something wrong is going on here' they don't fix the problem, they fire the person and tell the offender 'you need to keep it quieter than that'.

That is why earlier I noted gong to state or federal agencies for help. Every company is scared to death of REAL government action against them. They know if the government finds ANY wrong doing the company is out a ton of money and now employees that have been wronged have a case in court. Of course this is also why its become common practice for companies to require you to sign an Arbitration Agreement. Its their way of avoided a Constitutional jury trial.

The whole thing for an employee is, be fearless. They will use fear as their first and best go to tool against you. If you are fearless they've already lost 75% of the fight.

 

[gipper]

"This failure often leads to lower level managers being yes men and brown noses. They will mistreat those who report to them, as they are in constant fear of being replaced by anyone who excels. If senior management does not control this, it will grow and fester resulting in good people leaving the company and those who stay being mediocre. "

And that is really the problem. Middle management that is scared all the time for their job because they aren't really the 'best' person to be in that position because they are a family member or 'friend' of the upper manager or VP that appointed them. These mediocre middle management always move towards promoting people that are inferior to themselves and who will never challenge them. This is how a department gets packed with corrupt mediocre people. Corrupt people always hire other corrupt people so their own position is secured. And they tell the people they promote "you have my back and I'll have yours". And it brings down the entire department and slowly slides the company into mediocre performance.

The worst case scenario is when these people are given the authority to hand out bonuses. Its like giving Al Capone tens of thousands of dollars in free bribe money.

I agree completely. Your comment on bonuses is so true. I worked in a fortune 500 firm for over decade. The director of our group was given bonus money every year with zero oversight. He generally kept half for himself, though he did almost nothing to generate revenue. The rest went to his favorites with no regard to productivity and senior management did nothing about it.

Such is corporatism.
For the past 25 years senior management and board members have engorged themselves with ever increasing wages and bonus structures that they literally make enough money in one year that no matter what happens - they are set for life. Corporate leaders are completely detached from reality. And that includes the reality of the business itself. They have no personal connection with anyone in the organization that is outside of their inner circle.
I worked for a corporation for 13 years that had 56 properties, all multi-$million earners...I ran two of the locations...I never even MET a single board member. Never met or even spoke to the CFO, or CEO... and I ran two of their companies!!! As long as the trial balance each month looked up to snuff - you never heard a peep from these people. So yes, it is easy within this kind of business structure for corruption to exist.

It is the exception for a CEO/President of a large corp to make sure the culture in the company is effective and fair. They don't appear to have any interest in knowing about work conditions in middle management.

The big firm I worked for imposed a set of written ethical standards of conduct on all employees. We had to sign it or leave the firm. Funny thing is some years later I was aware of unethical behavior by one of the senior managers I reported to. I reported it and was summarily fired. HR did nothing for me and the HR manager even said he would not go up against my boss. Several of my co-workers went to HR backing my position, but were warned to shut up or be fired.

The great book Good To Great discusses corporate culture and corruption. The author shows how great companies have senior leadership that is involved with all aspects of the company and how the CEO/President are usually long time employees who love the company and are not merely there to make huge money for themselves.

Companies work up and print 'acceptable conduct' type of guidelines for employees but they are only for show. They exist so the company's lawyers can say 'see, we have this, they acted against company policy'.

But you are right, upper management generally ignores this and does whatever it wants. And as you note as soon as someone says 'hey something wrong is going on here' they don't fix the problem, they fire the person and tell the offender 'you need to keep it quieter than that'.

That is why earlier I noted gong to state or federal agencies for help. Every company is scared to death of REAL government action against them. They know if the government finds ANY wrong doing the company is out a ton of money and now employees that have been wronged have a case in court. Of course this is also why its become common practice for companies to require you to sign an Arbitration Agreement. Its their way of avoided a Constitutional jury trial.

The whole thing for an employee is, be fearless. They will use fear as their first and best go to tool against you. If you are fearless they've already lost 75% of the fight.

That is so right about being fearless. Sadly, many employees work in a culture of fear. They act as if they are stuck and can't get out, making them easy marks for their managers to abuse.

 

[charwin95]

It has been my experience in life that working hard doesn't really pay off that much. The raises you get are not that much for the effort you put out to get one sometimes so I figure what is the point of all that hard work. Don't get me wrong. One should definitely work hard towards the goals they have in life because sometimes it is the only thing one can do in life but in work it rarely does. The amount of energy you put in usually doesn't equal the amount you get back in pay.

What does pay off is 'kissing ass'. I'm going to say this just once. Kissing ass works way better than working hard. Your bosses will think you are an awesome person because you say something nice to them. It is a little humiliating to but it works. You don't have to go overboard with it but it does work. It would be nice to live in a world where work alone will determine your success in the workplace but all your hard work will not pay off if YOUR BOSS HATES YOUR GUTS!

There is nothing in the world you can do at that point because your boss will never give you a break on anything. You may think your supervisor like you but they are playing the same game with you that you with them which is you pretend to be nice to everyone so your work thinks you are a team player. They won't say whether or not they hate you or not just like they won't say that to you so don't fool yourself into thinking that they like you because they happen to greet you when you come into work. Don't you do the same with employees that you don't like?

Your boss could be prejudice against you. I'm not talking about the race, religion, sexual orientation, etc, etc, but she could really hate short ugly men. Maybe your hair was messed up one day or you happen to have bad BO. It is all pretty superficial but it is f'n true. Human nature is pretty superficial. It is the reason we don't go outside in our underwear. We don't want other people to think we are retarded because we happen to go outside in the most efficient clothing style for how weather (maximizing skin surface area to cool you off).

Some people can look pass the superficialness and see the real you. Isn't it wonderful that those people exist? They don't exist at work. In fact, being judged by totally superficial standards seems to increase ten fold at work. A college degree gets you into higher places but people with college degrees can be pretty stupid sometimes as highlighted by videos where college graduates didn't know who christopher columbus is (they know who Karl Marx is though).

Lets not forget what your fellow co-workers will say about you. They hate you too! I'm not fucking kidding on this. They hate you as well and won't tell you. When you are about to get fired they will know and then they will unleash all the hate they wanted to unleash on you at that point. It then snowballs because they tell other people how much you suck as human being. They minute you say anything bad about them they accuse you of engaging in rumors. What the fuck have they been doing for the last five years with your life?

That is another thing. God damn hypocrisy of other human beings just seems rather unfair. They can rip into you 24/7 but the minute you say anything about them then they cry foul to the HR department. They are always the fuckin victim of you the minute you do the same shit they have been doing to you. Don't even bother hoping that HR will solve your issues in your favor. Don't waste your time. Occassionally you might run into one that really does help you but that is only because they are gay and they like you or you happen to be a hot babe that he wants to screw.

That is the only way you get anything special from your supervisor. The rule of thumb is hope you have a gay supervisor or you are a super hot chick. Then you get anything you ever want from them. Don't work hard just be sexy and the whole world will come to you because of universal law number 1 of human nature which is everyone wants to screw.

As a business owner..... Most of the time if you work hard it does pay off. On the other side......... You can work as hard as you want but if your attitude and working habits are sucks then that's your pink slip. As simple as that.

 

[Indeependent]

It has been my experience in life that working hard doesn't really pay off that much. The raises you get are not that much for the effort you put out to get one sometimes so I figure what is the point of all that hard work. Don't get me wrong. One should definitely work hard towards the goals they have in life because sometimes it is the only thing one can do in life but in work it rarely does. The amount of energy you put in usually doesn't equal the amount you get back in pay.

What does pay off is 'kissing ass'. I'm going to say this just once. Kissing ass works way better than working hard. Your bosses will think you are an awesome person because you say something nice to them. It is a little humiliating to but it works. You don't have to go overboard with it but it does work. It would be nice to live in a world where work alone will determine your success in the workplace but all your hard work will not pay off if YOUR BOSS HATES YOUR GUTS!

There is nothing in the world you can do at that point because your boss will never give you a break on anything. You may think your supervisor like you but they are playing the same game with you that you with them which is you pretend to be nice to everyone so your work thinks you are a team player. They won't say whether or not they hate you or not just like they won't say that to you so don't fool yourself into thinking that they like you because they happen to greet you when you come into work. Don't you do the same with employees that you don't like?

Your boss could be prejudice against you. I'm not talking about the race, religion, sexual orientation, etc, etc, but she could really hate short ugly men. Maybe your hair was messed up one day or you happen to have bad BO. It is all pretty superficial but it is f'n true. Human nature is pretty superficial. It is the reason we don't go outside in our underwear. We don't want other people to think we are retarded because we happen to go outside in the most efficient clothing style for how weather (maximizing skin surface area to cool you off).

Some people can look pass the superficialness and see the real you. Isn't it wonderful that those people exist? They don't exist at work. In fact, being judged by totally superficial standards seems to increase ten fold at work. A college degree gets you into higher places but people with college degrees can be pretty stupid sometimes as highlighted by videos where college graduates didn't know who christopher columbus is (they know who Karl Marx is though).

Lets not forget what your fellow co-workers will say about you. They hate you too! I'm not fucking kidding on this. They hate you as well and won't tell you. When you are about to get fired they will know and then they will unleash all the hate they wanted to unleash on you at that point. It then snowballs because they tell other people how much you suck as human being. They minute you say anything bad about them they accuse you of engaging in rumors. What the fuck have they been doing for the last five years with your life?

That is another thing. God damn hypocrisy of other human beings just seems rather unfair. They can rip into you 24/7 but the minute you say anything about them then they cry foul to the HR department. They are always the fuckin victim of you the minute you do the same shit they have been doing to you. Don't even bother hoping that HR will solve your issues in your favor. Don't waste your time. Occassionally you might run into one that really does help you but that is only because they are gay and they like you or you happen to be a hot babe that he wants to screw.

That is the only way you get anything special from your supervisor. The rule of thumb is hope you have a gay supervisor or you are a super hot chick. Then you get anything you ever want from them. Don't work hard just be sexy and the whole world will come to you because of universal law number 1 of human nature which is everyone wants to screw.

As a business owner..... Most of the time if you work hard it does pay off. On the other side......... You can work as hard as you want but if your attitude and working habits are sucks then that's your pink slip. As simple as that.

Let's reword that a bit...
An employee of an owner will be rewarded for work well done.
Yes?