"You didn't get there on your own"

[rightwinger]

People make their own deals to trade their time for money. No one is forcing them to work for anyone. And if you've ever had to hire a HS grad you'd have serious doubts about just how "educated " they are.


It doesn't provide any of those. We pay for them. In fact I pay a higher rate for business phone lines than the average person.


Does not apply to a lot of businesses as not all do business abroad.


Police don't protect my business I do by hiring a private alarm monitoring company. Police show up after a crime has been committed and most times stolen property is never recovered nor are the perpetrators caught.

Fire department s are not free either you know. Business people pay for them too. In my town we have a volunteer fire department which local businesses support quite generously I might add.



It costs a lot of money to patent an idea and society does not pay that cost nor will it actively seek out patent or copyright infringements the persons holding the copyright or patent must submit proof of an infringement.

You hire trained employees that our society has paid for. If you don't like the quality of their training, by all means train them yourself. They are your employees

Society did not train my employees. Most went on to get some college that they not society paid for. And when they get to me They still have to go though months of on the job traing that I pay them for.

To hear you talk it seems you think anyone fresh out of high school can just be plugged into any position in a business. Sorry but that is a fantasy that only people who never had employees hold.

That entire communications infrastructure was subsidized by the taxpayer. You hook into that network for a marginal cost to yourself. What you pay for communications in no way compenstes for the benefit you receive

Marginal? Phone internet electricity etc cost me 20K a year.

Hardly marginal

International trade affects all businesses whether you know it or not

Your society is paying for that police and fire department. If your business is invaded or on fire, it is your community that will protect you

COps don't protect you they show up after a crime has been committed. And I've already told you several times that we generously support our local volunteer fire department beyond our taxes.

Society educated your employees for you, paid for their K-12 education, paid and subsidized Colleges, paid for tuition reimbursements. You take those students and train them to do your specific job but you take advantage of YEARS of education provided by society

You pay $20,000 for communications and power? What would it cost you to build a phone link to each of your customers? What would it cost you to build your own power generation facility? You benefit from the power and communications network that society has developed

 

[teapartysamurai]

oh yeah, that is a good reason to be poor, but it's not factual. People are poor for many reasons, but empathy is not one of your strong suits is it?

get off your high horse, what he said is TRUE..they are free to become NOT POOR in this country. EVERYONE IS

I am guessing your christian ideals have led you to help people when thy are down and in need of help?

But you libs tell us Christian ideals IS giving to the government to redistribute to the "poor."

You need to make up your minds!

 

[DiamondDave]

A more perfect Union.

While denying the existence of the Individual, and the 9th/10th Amendments and soverignty of the Individual States.

The states ceded most of their sovereignty voluntarily when they signed on.

That is probably the BIGGEST crock of shit I have heard on this board... proving, without a doubt, that you know absolutely nothing on how this government is constitutionally set up

 

[GuyPinestra]

Public education costs an average of $11,000 per pupil a year. Imagine if business had to teach their employees to read, do math or operate a computer?

Each employee they hire has an education that costs the the taxpayers over $100,000. Employers turn around and profit off of skills they didn't pay for

HS grads have no skills. They can barely read, they don't know how to follow directions, they sure as shit can't spell. I spent an hour trying to teach a kid how to make change without a calculator the other day.

Yeah these kids are really bright.

Every business has a training program. They have to because most businesses have specific skill and knowledge requirements.

If you don't like it.....pay for it yourself

They are your employees, you are making a profit off them, you should pay to educate them

Why should the taxpayer pay to educate people you make money from? You pay

I agree!! Let's abolish the Dept of Education and close down every school in the nation. With about 60 million kids in them, times $11K per year we could save the American taxpayer about $660 BILLION a year.

That will cover about 40% of THIS YEAR'S deficit.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

People make their own deals to trade their time for money. No one is forcing them to work for anyone. And if you've ever had to hire a HS grad you'd have serious doubts about just how "educated " they are.


It doesn't provide any of those. We pay for them. In fact I pay a higher rate for business phone lines than the average person.


Does not apply to a lot of businesses as not all do business abroad.


Police don't protect my business I do by hiring a private alarm monitoring company. Police show up after a crime has been committed and most times stolen property is never recovered nor are the perpetrators caught.

Fire department s are not free either you know. Business people pay for them too. In my town we have a volunteer fire department which local businesses support quite generously I might add.



It costs a lot of money to patent an idea and society does not pay that cost nor will it actively seek out patent or copyright infringements the persons holding the copyright or patent must submit proof of an infringement.

You hire trained employees that our society has paid for. If you don't like the quality of their training, by all means train them yourself. They are your employees

Society did not train my employees. Most went on to get some college that they not society paid for. And when they get to me They still have to go though months of on the job traing that I pay them for.

To hear you talk it seems you think anyone fresh out of high school can just be plugged into any position in a business. Sorry but that is a fantasy that only people who never had employees hold.

That entire communications infrastructure was subsidized by the taxpayer. You hook into that network for a marginal cost to yourself. What you pay for communications in no way compenstes for the benefit you receive

Marginal? Phone internet electricity etc cost me 20K a year.

Hardly marginal

International trade affects all businesses whether you know it or not

Your society is paying for that police and fire department. If your business is invaded or on fire, it is your community that will protect you

COps don't protect you they show up after a crime has been committed. And I've already told you several times that we generously support our local volunteer fire department beyond our taxes.

you're so full of shit it's hilarious.

I'd bet a talk with any group in the area you live in would expose you as a petty, mean-spirited blowhard with a huge chip on his weak shoulders.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Every business that hires employees who have gotten a basic education in a public school, and higher education in a state school, or a military academy, or via government aid,

that business benefits from government spending that it did not pay for. The economic value of the employees' education is a government funded benefit to employers.

Dude, I hate to bring up the obvious, but you Democrats USED TO USE SLAVES IN THE SOUTH, and DEMOCRATS MADE IT ILLEGAL TO EDUCATE THEM AT ALL!

Another reasons liberals don't want real education going on in schools, just liberal indoctrination.

But if education is so necessary to be an employee then why did Democrats make it illegal to educate slaves in the South?

And what a surprise, DEMOCRATS ARE STILL FIGHTING TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM BEING EDUCATED TODAY.

From Obama ending school vouchers in Washington DC to liberals making our schools a disgrace in the world (look where we rank in math compared to the world).

And if education is so necessary, why do businesses have to train employees.

They invest in cash registers where you don't have to add, because NO ONE CAN ADD ANYMORE!

Remember the old days when you had to add up how much to give in change in your head?

No one can do that anymore!

So don't make me laugh! Education is the last thing liberals want, and it certainly isn't the first thing they should bring up, in an argument for class envy.

 

[teapartysamurai]

fortunately not a theocracy, but don't worry, when you die you can go to hevean where you will be in utopian communstic sytem under God.

So now you know what Heaven is like?

Whatever Heaven is, there are no rightwingers there. If there were, they couldn't call it Heaven.

Get this! Now lefties think they dictate to God who may get in heaven.

And then I'm wrong calling them narcissists?

 

[GuyPinestra]

You hire trained employees that our society has paid for. If you don't like the quality of their training, by all means train them yourself. They are your employees

Society did not train my employees. Most went on to get some college that they not society paid for. And when they get to me They still have to go though months of on the job traing that I pay them for.

To hear you talk it seems you think anyone fresh out of high school can just be plugged into any position in a business. Sorry but that is a fantasy that only people who never had employees hold.



Marginal? Phone internet electricity etc cost me 20K a year.

Hardly marginal

International trade affects all businesses whether you know it or not

Your society is paying for that police and fire department. If your business is invaded or on fire, it is your community that will protect you

COps don't protect you they show up after a crime has been committed. And I've already told you several times that we generously support our local volunteer fire department beyond our taxes.

you're so full of shit it's hilarious.

I'd bet a talk with any group in the area you live in would expose you as a petty, mean-spirited blowhard with a huge chip on his weak shoulders.

Personal attacks, the last ammo for a losing argument...

 

[teapartysamurai]

A more perfect Union.

While denying the existence of the Individual, and the 9th/10th Amendments and soverignty of the Individual States.

The states ceded most of their sovereignty voluntarily when they signed on.

Helloooooooooooooooo! Did you EVER read the 10th Amendment?

Show me where that has been repealed?

 

[The T]

So now you know what Heaven is like?

Whatever Heaven is, there are no rightwingers there. If there were, they couldn't call it Heaven.

Get this! Now lefties think they dictate to God who may get in heaven.

And then I'm wrong calling them narcissists?

Not at all. Quite frankly? They're arrogant.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Do you get this? FIRST he denies Obama is advocating socialism THEN HE ADMITS IT!

This is typical liberalism.

Look "IN the Middle of lies" All you are saying is we have "a little socialism" going on.

But socialism is SOCIALISM, whether you call it a "mixed economy" or not.

Obama is demanding that "MIX" get a little stronger, and you libs are trying to shut up anyone who says that really means.

IT'S SOCIALISM. That's NOT a lie. The LIE is coming from you libs denying the obvious, while you still try to admit it (and justify it).

And this is why you are an idiot. A mixed economy is not socialism. But you're incapable of comprehending that fact. There's an entire universe between Galt and Marx that those of us with a respectable level of intelligence are reasonably capable of navigating. So stay on the sidelines, you'll just get hurt if you try to take the field.

MIXED WITH WHAT?????????????

WHAT IS OUR CAPITALISM MIXED WITH??????????????

Yeah, that's right. YOU ARE ADMITTING IT'S MIXED WITH SOCIALISM, and you want MORE to make it more "equal."

"More equal" in your rhetoric means YOU DON'T THINK THERE IS ENOUGH SOCIALISM MIXED IN!

We need MORE to make it more "equal."

And you think your rhetoric can BULLSHIT AROUND THAT?

Hilarious!

 

[Katzndogz]

obama should keep telling successful people that they were handed their success by someone else. Run with it, democrats like it.

 

[teapartysamurai]

The GOP is currently stuck on absolutism, since most of the energy in the party is being generated by the Tea Party types. Therefore:

• Anyone who doesn't completely agree with them is a "commie"
• Anyone who thinks the country, would be better off less unbalanced is a "socialist"
• Anyone who thinks improvements can be made here & there "hates Amurrrrica"

It's all binary, either/or, black & white, us vs. them. Keeps things nice and simple.

Look at it this way: Pretend you're trying to communicate with Archie Bunker.

.

While you libs scream "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

You are still trying to say "we only want a 'little communism!'"

And you prove it, in your talk about "balance!"

That's still screaming WEALTH DISTRIBUTION.

No matter how you libs try to change the terms, it doesn't change the results!

You can call it balance or wealth distribution, THE RESULTS ARE STILL THE SAME!

You just don't like that the tea party isn't as GULLIBLE as you Obama bots.

We KNOW a communist when we see one, no matter how he tries to phrase the debate around it.

It's the results we are centering on, NOT your lying rhetoric.

A vivid, spot-on example of my point.

.

This is what liberals do when they can't refute. They claim they did anyway, and run away.

 

[teapartysamurai]

I'm not "non-partisan". I'm ANTI-partisan.

Then you're in abject denial.

.

Bwahahahaaa! All "anti-partisan" means is "I'm against anyone that has a different view than me!"

You think you fool anybody???????

The sad part is, like all liberals you are so self obsessed with your own views, I'm sure you DO think you fool everyone--including yourself!

When in doubt, deflect, avoid the point.

And use lots of "smilies".


.

Example 2! He can't refute. He just whines, and runs away!

 

[teapartysamurai]

To assume that business operates in a vacuum and does not need the society from which it profits is ridiculous

Our society educates and trains the employees you profit off of

People make their own deals to trade their time for money. No one is forcing them to work for anyone. And if you've ever had to hire a HS grad you'd have serious doubts about just how "educated " they are.


It doesn't provide any of those. We pay for them. In fact I pay a higher rate for business phone lines than the average person.


Does not apply to a lot of businesses as not all do business abroad.


Police don't protect my business I do by hiring a private alarm monitoring company. Police show up after a crime has been committed and most times stolen property is never recovered nor are the perpetrators caught.

Fire department s are not free either you know. Business people pay for them too. In my town we have a volunteer fire department which local businesses support quite generously I might add.

Our society protects your patents and protects you from unfair competition

It costs a lot of money to patent an idea and society does not pay that cost nor will it actively seek out patent or copyright infringements the persons holding the copyright or patent must submit proof of an infringement.

You hire trained employess that our society has paid for. If you don't like the quality of their training, by all means train them yourself. They are your employees

That entire communications infrastructure was subsidized by the taxpayer. You hook into that network for a marginal cost to yourself. What you pay for communications in no way compenstes for the benefit you receive

International trade affects all businesses whether you know it or not

Your society is paying for that police and fire department. If your business is invaded or on fire, it is your community that will protect you

Notice libs act like YOU, the small busines owners pays no TAXES that pay for fire or police.

It's just everybody else that supposedly pays for those taxes.

I would love to see a comparison of how much the small business owner pays AND COLLECTS IN SALES TAXES, compared to how much those customers pay in taxes.

Yet the customers are owed the profits of the business?

 

[teapartysamurai]

exactly
liberals are nothing but users of people, even the disabled who want to make something of themselves

Exactly nothing. There are two main problems with this argument.

1. Hawking is not a paraplegic. He has a motor neuron disease called ALS. His condition first began expressing itself when he was 21 years old. After diagnosis, and his condition progressed and eventually stablized for a time, he had a great deal of direct and personal help that allowed him to complete his doctorate and begin his career. As his condition has progressed, Hawking has continued to need an increasing amount of personal assistance for every day living affairs.

2. All that aside, even if we completely ignore it, your point would still be fallacy of accident. Hawking is one of the most remarkably intelligent people to ever live. He has extremely unique gifts. His life is nowhere near typical of anyone, or of disabled persons.

What's that got to to with it.

This is still able bodied LAZY PEOPLE trying to hide behide the handicapped, demanding the hard work of others.

 

[teapartysamurai]

You hire trained employees that our society has paid for. If you don't like the quality of their training, by all means train them yourself. They are your employees

Society did not train my employees. Most went on to get some college that they not society paid for. And when they get to me They still have to go though months of on the job traing that I pay them for.

To hear you talk it seems you think anyone fresh out of high school can just be plugged into any position in a business. Sorry but that is a fantasy that only people who never had employees hold.



Marginal? Phone internet electricity etc cost me 20K a year.

Hardly marginal

International trade affects all businesses whether you know it or not

Your society is paying for that police and fire department. If your business is invaded or on fire, it is your community that will protect you

COps don't protect you they show up after a crime has been committed. And I've already told you several times that we generously support our local volunteer fire department beyond our taxes.

you're so full of shit it's hilarious.

I'd bet a talk with any group in the area you live in would expose you as a petty, mean-spirited blowhard with a huge chip on his weak shoulders.

Which is liberal for, he can't refute what you are saying so he's going to call you "mean-spirited."

"Mean-Spirited" in lib speak, means the lib is losing the argument.

 

[rightwinger]

What the dimwits don't under stand is that public education is mostly funded on the local level by property taxes and businesses pay much higher property taxes than do private citizens.

We not only pay property taxes on our land and physical structures but we have to pay property taxes on every piece of equipment we have including our office supplies.

So until you people have to count every chair, plate and piece of silverware every year and pay taxes on them don't tell me businesses don't foot a higher share of the bill for society than does the average American idiot.

You are avoiding the point of the thread which is that businesses do not do it on their own. They rely and profit off of the society in which they do business

Businesses do not profit off of society they have to provide a service well in order to profit. I just can't say "Hey I'm in business, let the profits roll in from society starting now"

Businesses pay more in taxes than the general public. Seems to me society benefits when there are successful businesses in the community.

The issue is that business does not generate from scratch. You plug your business into an existing society and benefit from its people, roads, communications infrastructure, police and fire protections...

You, in turn make a profit off of that relationship and are expected to pay to contribute to the society from which you benefit

 

[rightwinger]

HS grads have no skills. They can barely read, they don't know how to follow directions, they sure as shit can't spell. I spent an hour trying to teach a kid how to make change without a calculator the other day.

Yeah these kids are really bright.

Every business has a training program. They have to because most businesses have specific skill and knowledge requirements.

If you don't like it.....pay for it yourself

They are your employees, you are making a profit off them, you should pay to educate them

Why should the taxpayer pay to educate people you make money from? You pay

I agree!! Let's abolish the Dept of Education and close down every school in the nation. With about 60 million kids in them, times $11K per year we could save the American taxpayer about $660 BILLION a year.

That will cover about 40% of THIS YEAR'S deficit.

Go for it

Let American business pay to educate their employees starting with learning how to read. Lets see how that affects their bottom line

 

[NYcarbineer]

While denying the existence of the Individual, and the 9th/10th Amendments and soverignty of the Individual States.

The states ceded most of their sovereignty voluntarily when they signed on.

That is probably the BIGGEST crock of shit I have heard on this board... proving, without a doubt, that you know absolutely nothing on how this government is constitutionally set up

That the Constitution is the great protector of state sovereignty is the great myth. What state sovereignty amounts to is that the states are allowed to do whatever the Constitution doesn't say they can't do.

And the Constitution says that the states can't do anything that is contrary to federal law, or constitutional law,

so most meaningful sovereignty is gone right there.