"You didn't get there on your own"

What colour is the sky in Bfgrn's world



Analysis: Job Growth Was 10-Fold Higher Before the Democrats Passed Obamacare


“Private-sector job creation initially recovered from the recession at a normal rate, leading to predictions last year of a “Recovery Summer.” Since April 2010, however, net private-sector job creation has stalled. Within two months of the passage of Obamacare, the job market stopped improving. This suggests that businesses are not exaggerating when they tell pollsters that the new health care law is holding back hiring.”

Sherk writes that Obamacare “discourages employers from hiring in several ways:

OMG! The Weekly Standard and the Heritage Foundation saying something negative about Obama and Democrats...who would believe it?!?!

Did Sherk tell you THIS?

  • American Enterprise Institute "scholars" were ordered not to speak to the media on the subject of health care reform, because they agreed with too much of what Obama was trying to do?



Oh yes the Left's attempt to justify their position by trying to equate it to
a conservative proposal.

Granted, while a liberal plan that was a true and complete copy of a Conservative idea would be the only way to guarantee that the liberal plan was any good,
Papa Obama Care does not meet this test ,....

Indeed, the myth that Papa ObamaCare "adopts the 'individual mandate' concept from the conservative Heritage Foundation continues

As Stuart Butler himself says:

But the version of the health insurance mandate Heritage and I supported in the 1990s had three critical features.

First, it was not primarily intended to push people to obtain protection for their own good, but to protect others.
Like auto damage liability insurance required in most states, our requirement focused on "catastrophic" costs —
so hospitals and taxpayers would not have to foot the bill for the expensive illness or accident of someone who did not buy insurance.

Second, we sought to induce people to buy coverage primarily through the carrot of a generous health credit or voucher,
financed in part by a fundamental reform of the tax treatment of health coverage, rather than by a stick.

And third, in the legislation we helped craft that ultimately became a preferred alternative to ClintonCare,
the "mandate" was actually the loss of certain tax breaks for those not choosing to buy coverage, not a legal requirement.


Granted misery loves company and the left is trying to diffuse blame for this thing
But this monstrosity all belongs to the Left and Papa Obama ...

More shock and surprise! Stuart Butler not telling the truth...WOW, who would believe the people who invented the individual mandate would now say it is a bad idea?

BTW, Thank you for not reading what Robert Moffit wrote. I will provide the paramount issue he explains.

Most workers do not purchase health insurance; it is purchased by somebody else, usually the company. For most workers, it is a “free good,” an extra, that automatically comes with the job. At least, we live with that comfortable illusion. But, in fact, it is not free at all, and the employer gives us nothing.

He suggests a simple financial disclosure on the part of the nation’s employers, requiring every employer to put periodically on the pay stub of every worker in America something like the following: “We have paid you X thousand dollars in health benefits. This has reduced your wages by X thousand dollars.”

Here is much more of what Moffit wrote.

Personal Freedom Responsibility And Mandates


The Taxpayer Mandate

Policy analysts at The Heritage Foundation have wrestled incessantly with. this problem, while developing a “consumer choice” plan for comprehensive health system reform, now embodied in a major legislative proposal.3 Only after extensive analysis of the peculiar distortions of the health insurance market did Heritage scholars reluctantly agree to an individual mandate.

On this point, some observations are in order. First, much of the debate over whether we should have a mandate is, in a sense, a debate over a “metaphysical abstraction.” 4 For all practical purposes, we already have a powerful and increasingly oppressive mandate: a mandate on taxpayers.

We all pay for the health care of those who do not pay, in two ways. First, people with private insurance pay through that insurance– even though that insurance is often the property of employers under current law. This reflects the ever-higher costs shifted to offset the billions of dollars of costs of uncompensated care in hospitals, clinics, and physicians’ offices. Second, if those who are uninsured get seriously ill and are forced to spend down their assets to cope with their huge medical bills, their care is paid for, not through employer-based or private insurance premiums, but through taxes, money taken by federal and state tax collectors to fund Medicaid or other public assistance programs that serve the poor or those impoverished because of a serious illness.

Hospitals also have legal obligations to accept and care for those who enter seeking assistance. No responsible public official is proposing repeal of these statutory provisions, and very few physicians, if any, are prepared to deny treatment to persons seeking their help merely because they cannot afford to pay. As taxpayers and subscribers to private health insurance, the American people pick up these bills.

Aside from current economic arrangements, the entire moral and cultural tenor of our society reinforces the taxpayer mandate. Those who are uninsured and cannot pay for their care will be cared for, and those who are insured and working will pay for that care.

So, we already have a mandate. But it is both inefficient and unfair.

3 The Consumer Choice Health Security Act. sponsored by Sen. Don Nickles (R-OK) and Rep. Cliff Steams (R-FL). The bill has twenty-four Senate cosponsors, making it the leading Senate alternative to the Clinton plan. S.M. Butler and E.F. Haislmaier, “The Consumer Choice Health Security Act (S. 1743, H.R. 3698),” Issue Bulletin no. 186 (The Heritage Foundation, December 1993).
 
REAL 'businessmen' decide to hire or expand based on ALL factors...PERIOD.

And you're talking to two business owners in Foxfyre and me. Clearly a rational business owner would consider every variable and government is a big one. And government is doing everything it can to bury us. It's only your ignorance that lets you believe otherwise.

...and I'm a third. My potential employees lost to mandatory worker's compensation coverage, if I have employees. Its just me now and probably will be from now on.
 
Bfgrn seems determined to derail this thread with incessant spamming if he can't do it any other way, and I thank the sane people for not taking the bait.

So back on the topic, President Obama's campaign manager, Stephanie Cutter, has been out on the circuit doing damage control this week. But she hasn't quite managed to reverse the concept that people object to in President Obama's remarks, and in fact managed to reinforce them. :)

. . . .The Obama campaign walk-back on the president’s July 13 remarks then took the form of claiming that big federal government programs are equally responsible for business successes. In essence, the Obama campaign denied government created business successes, and then Cutter backtracked again to Obama’s original position, stating:

The President said that together, Americans built the free enterprise system that we all benefit from…. He has invested in our roads, bridges and highways, he has doubled Pell grant scholarships and reformed the student loan system to help students afford college, and he is committed to making sure that every community in America is connected to the digital age by expanding broadband access. Ironically, Mitt Romney knows better than anyone that business can’t always do it alone…. These attack ads make you wonder. Does [Romney] even understand how our economy works? You and I know how it works. We build our businesses through hard work and initiative, with the public and private sectors working together to create a climate that helps us grow. President Obama knows that, and he’s fighting to strengthen our economy on that basic principle.

Cutter’s remarks echoed Obama’s remarks about small businesses that “we need to stand behind them, as America always has, by investing in education and training, roads and bridges, research and technology.” Of course, the federal government has not always subsidized education and technology; these are extra-constitutional innovations of the last 40 years and not among the enumerated powers of the federal government. And the federal government has a poor track record of backing technology with tax dollars.

More troubling than the lack of historical and constitutional history is the fact that Obama and Cutter’s summary of Obama’s economic agenda as “the public and private sectors working together” serves as a succinct definition of economic fascism and the opposite of free enterprise. Furthermore, Obama seems to be unaware that business owners, through their tax dollars, are actually paying for the “roads” and “bridges” and “education” that they supposedly depend upon. So perhaps the president should be thanking businesses for contributing to the government
» Barack Obama Walks Back

Obama got off-topic...told us WHO he was...Teleprompter or not.

The MASK is OFF.

The PEOPLE are awake.

NO recovery for Obama.

That simple.

I was very pleased to see the Infowars site be sharp enough to pick up on the Marxist aspect of what Obama and his campaign staff are putting out there. That is really encouraging that you are right and the mask is off. Now if enough of the apathetic who have been lulled into complacency will just wake up too, we can get the proper momentum going on this.

They called it "economic facism' but that is a critical stage in the march from capitalism to communism.
 
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Obama can't walk this one back. Any offended business owner has made up his/her mind. I quick apology in the beginning might have done some damage control, but that time has long passed. It has also set the tone for how any future comments on the subject will be filtered and viewed. The socialist face has been viewed and few will be able to forget.
 
REAL 'businessmen' decide to hire or expand based on ALL factors...PERIOD.

And you're talking to two business owners in Foxfyre and me. Clearly a rational business owner would consider every variable and government is a big one. And government is doing everything it can to bury us. It's only your ignorance that lets you believe otherwise.

...and I'm a third. My potential employees lost to mandatory worker's compensation coverage, if I have employees. Its just me now and probably will be from now on.

Please go to this thread and elaborate a little more if you would.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/236875-government-did-not-build-your-business.html

Jobs lost to a small business because of....the government.
 
Not telling the truth not at all

But the Left's desperation to cover for the monstrosity of PapaObama Care
is noted

As the article says:

Additionally, the meaning of the individual mandate we are said to have "invented" has changed over time. Today it means the government makes people buy comprehensive benefits for their own good, rather than our original emphasis on protecting society from the heavy medical costs of free riders.
Moreover, I agree with my legal colleagues at Heritage that today's version of a mandate exceeds the constitutional powers granted to the federal government. Forcing those Americans not in the insurance market to purchase comprehensive insurance for themselves goes beyond even the most expansive precedents of the courts.

While one can appreciate the Left's desperation to cover their ass on this one,
PapaObama Care went far beyond any discussion by these groups.

It is rather amusing that the Left can only justify their position by
trying to claim it is conservative. Understandable, but still funny

One would think the Left would be proud and brave to say
"Hey this is our baby and we are taking all the credit for it"
:eusa_angel:
 
REAL 'businessmen' decide to hire or expand based on ALL factors...PERIOD.

And you're talking to two business owners in Foxfyre and me. Clearly a rational business owner would consider every variable and government is a big one. And government is doing everything it can to bury us. It's only your ignorance that lets you believe otherwise.

...and I'm a third. My potential employees lost to mandatory worker's compensation coverage, if I have employees. Its just me now and probably will be from now on.

You wouldn't be the first to run into that particular problem. You have to be competitive in order to get the jobs. And a very small business generally can't keep a year round staff but needs to have workers who can work on an as-needed basis. Most states, however, have set up systems in which the insurance companies require a minimum premium to cover you for work comp whether you have anybody working in a given week or not.

So there's another case where government dictates the terms rather than work with the businessman to find a way to accommodate the way he has to work. And in the process, people who might have had a chance to supplement their incomes lose the opportunity to do so.
 
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Bfgrn seems determined to derail this thread with incessant spamming if he can't do it any other way, and I thank the sane people for not taking the bait.

So back on the topic, President Obama's campaign manager, Stephanie Cutter, has been out on the circuit doing damage control this week. But she hasn't quite managed to reverse the concept that people object to in President Obama's remarks, and in fact managed to reinforce them. :)

. . . .The Obama campaign walk-back on the president’s July 13 remarks then took the form of claiming that big federal government programs are equally responsible for business successes. In essence, the Obama campaign denied government created business successes, and then Cutter backtracked again to Obama’s original position, stating:

The President said that together, Americans built the free enterprise system that we all benefit from…. He has invested in our roads, bridges and highways, he has doubled Pell grant scholarships and reformed the student loan system to help students afford college, and he is committed to making sure that every community in America is connected to the digital age by expanding broadband access. Ironically, Mitt Romney knows better than anyone that business can’t always do it alone…. These attack ads make you wonder. Does [Romney] even understand how our economy works? You and I know how it works. We build our businesses through hard work and initiative, with the public and private sectors working together to create a climate that helps us grow. President Obama knows that, and he’s fighting to strengthen our economy on that basic principle.

Cutter’s remarks echoed Obama’s remarks about small businesses that “we need to stand behind them, as America always has, by investing in education and training, roads and bridges, research and technology.” Of course, the federal government has not always subsidized education and technology; these are extra-constitutional innovations of the last 40 years and not among the enumerated powers of the federal government. And the federal government has a poor track record of backing technology with tax dollars.

More troubling than the lack of historical and constitutional history is the fact that Obama and Cutter’s summary of Obama’s economic agenda as “the public and private sectors working together” serves as a succinct definition of economic fascism and the opposite of free enterprise. Furthermore, Obama seems to be unaware that business owners, through their tax dollars, are actually paying for the “roads” and “bridges” and “education” that they supposedly depend upon. So perhaps the president should be thanking businesses for contributing to the government
» Barack Obama Walks Back

Not so much walking back as doubling down. These people can't help themselves. They're stuck on stupid.
 
Bfgrn seems determined to derail this thread with incessant spamming if he can't do it any other way, and I thank the sane people for not taking the bait.

So back on the topic, President Obama's campaign manager, Stephanie Cutter, has been out on the circuit doing damage control this week. But she hasn't quite managed to reverse the concept that people object to in President Obama's remarks, and in fact managed to reinforce them. :)

. . . .The Obama campaign walk-back on the president’s July 13 remarks then took the form of claiming that big federal government programs are equally responsible for business successes. In essence, the Obama campaign denied government created business successes, and then Cutter backtracked again to Obama’s original position, stating:

The President said that together, Americans built the free enterprise system that we all benefit from…. He has invested in our roads, bridges and highways, he has doubled Pell grant scholarships and reformed the student loan system to help students afford college, and he is committed to making sure that every community in America is connected to the digital age by expanding broadband access. Ironically, Mitt Romney knows better than anyone that business can’t always do it alone…. These attack ads make you wonder. Does [Romney] even understand how our economy works? You and I know how it works. We build our businesses through hard work and initiative, with the public and private sectors working together to create a climate that helps us grow. President Obama knows that, and he’s fighting to strengthen our economy on that basic principle.

Cutter’s remarks echoed Obama’s remarks about small businesses that “we need to stand behind them, as America always has, by investing in education and training, roads and bridges, research and technology.” Of course, the federal government has not always subsidized education and technology; these are extra-constitutional innovations of the last 40 years and not among the enumerated powers of the federal government. And the federal government has a poor track record of backing technology with tax dollars.

More troubling than the lack of historical and constitutional history is the fact that Obama and Cutter’s summary of Obama’s economic agenda as “the public and private sectors working together” serves as a succinct definition of economic fascism and the opposite of free enterprise. Furthermore, Obama seems to be unaware that business owners, through their tax dollars, are actually paying for the “roads” and “bridges” and “education” that they supposedly depend upon. So perhaps the president should be thanking businesses for contributing to the government
» Barack Obama Walks Back

Not so much walking back as doubling down. These people can't help themselves. They're stuck on stupid.

LOL good point. Damage control isn't too effective when they do that.

Well let's hope they stay stuck on stupid because I'm seeing some encouraging signs that some of the sleepers out there are beginning to wake up and get serious. And I hope we here at USMB are giving just a little bit of help to make that happen.
 
wow, they finally admitted that Obama;s agenda is at best moderate, that practically everything he has supported was either initially created by a con or supported by them

and yet still they hate him, why? we all know, dont we

Because he's Marxist/Lennonist. And YOU are hereby on ignore.
 
Not telling the truth not at all

But the Left's desperation to cover for the monstrosity of PapaObama Care
is noted

As the article says:

Additionally, the meaning of the individual mandate we are said to have "invented" has changed over time. Today it means the government makes people buy comprehensive benefits for their own good, rather than our original emphasis on protecting society from the heavy medical costs of free riders.
Moreover, I agree with my legal colleagues at Heritage that today's version of a mandate exceeds the constitutional powers granted to the federal government. Forcing those Americans not in the insurance market to purchase comprehensive insurance for themselves goes beyond even the most expansive precedents of the courts.

While one can appreciate the Left's desperation to cover their ass on this one,
PapaObama Care went far beyond any discussion by these groups.

It is rather amusing that the Left can only justify their position by
trying to claim it is conservative. Understandable, but still funny

One would think the Left would be proud and brave to say
"Hey this is our baby and we are taking all the credit for it"
:eusa_angel:

Thank you AGAIN for ignoring what Moffit wrote. Maybe you will read what Stuart M. Butler wrote, back when the individual mandate was THEIR invention:

"If a young man wrecks his Porsche and has not had the foresight to obtain insurance . . . society feels no obligation to repair his car. But health care is different. If a man is struck down by a heart attack in the street, Americans will care for him whether or not he has insurance. If we find that he has spent his money on other things rather than insurance, we may be angry but we will not deny him services . . . .

A mandate on individuals recognizes this implicit contract. . . . Each household has the obligation, to the extent it is able, to avoid placing demands on society by protecting itself."[1]

[1] Start M. Butler, Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans, Heritage Lectures 218, p. 8(1989).

Here is a history lesson for you.

The Individual Mandate, a Brief History — Part I, Conservative Origins
 
OMG! The Weekly Standard and the Heritage Foundation saying something negative about Obama and Democrats...who would believe it?!?!

Did Sherk tell you THIS?

  • American Enterprise Institute "scholars" were ordered not to speak to the media on the subject of health care reform, because they agreed with too much of what Obama was trying to do?



Oh yes the Left's attempt to justify their position by trying to equate it to
a conservative proposal.

Granted, while a liberal plan that was a true and complete copy of a Conservative idea would be the only way to guarantee that the liberal plan was any good,
Papa Obama Care does not meet this test ,....

Indeed, the myth that Papa ObamaCare "adopts the 'individual mandate' concept from the conservative Heritage Foundation continues

As Stuart Butler himself says:

But the version of the health insurance mandate Heritage and I supported in the 1990s had three critical features.

First, it was not primarily intended to push people to obtain protection for their own good, but to protect others.
Like auto damage liability insurance required in most states, our requirement focused on "catastrophic" costs —
so hospitals and taxpayers would not have to foot the bill for the expensive illness or accident of someone who did not buy insurance.

Second, we sought to induce people to buy coverage primarily through the carrot of a generous health credit or voucher,
financed in part by a fundamental reform of the tax treatment of health coverage, rather than by a stick.

And third, in the legislation we helped craft that ultimately became a preferred alternative to ClintonCare,
the "mandate" was actually the loss of certain tax breaks for those not choosing to buy coverage, not a legal requirement.


Granted misery loves company and the left is trying to diffuse blame for this thing
But this monstrosity all belongs to the Left and Papa Obama ...

Yes Bfgrn is all bought into the book of "How to argue for Obamacare".

I could care less if Ronald Reagan wanted it.

Here are the same rebuttals to the same stupid argument:

In 1993, the GOP was pretty much irrelevant.

They were fighting off HillaryCare which they thought was terrible. They go find this mandate idea put out by Heritage (the left loves to quote Heritage on this one...but won't read anything else they say....talk about selective memory) and use it as a smoke screen.

It was a smokescreen.

Hillarcare dies and the GOP takes over congress in 1994...no more talk of health care.

Now, does anyone really believe that the GOP wanted health care.

Oh, and because Simon and Co. put it out there...it has to be constitutional. Can anyone explain that logic to me ?

If the GOP had wanted health care they had ample opportunity from 1994 to 2008 to pass anything they wanted (do you really think dems would have stood in the way ?).

It just gets to funny to have these secluded left batwing morons spit this stuff out like Pavlov's dog.

Yes, it was a smokescreen. Back then, Bill Kristol’s infamous memo convinced the party that any compromise on health care reform would be good for President Clinton and thus bad for them.

And this time Republicans made a COLLECTIVE decision to act like they were for reform, while they were parroting a Frank Luntz memo instructing them on how to destroy reform and the President of the United States of America. We, the People were never considered.

"At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994."

David Frum, President G.W. Bush's speechwriter.

But NOW, you must make the case for the status quo. Let's hear it???
 
For all you 'so called' small businessmen/women. One of the biggest handicaps small business has in regards to health care costs is that they don't get the price breaks large corporations get. The Affordable Care Act addresses that disadvantage:


Small Businesses and the Affordable Care Act

You know the value of providing health insurance to your employees. But it can be a real challenge for small businesses. On average, small businesses pay about 18% more than large firms for the same health insurance policy. And small businesses lack the purchasing power that larger employers have. The health care law provides tax credits and soon - the ability to shop for insurance in Exchanges that help close this gap.

Top Things to Know for Small Businesses

  • If you have up to 25 employees, pay average annual wages below $50,000, and provide health insurance, you may qualify for a small business tax credit of up to 35% (up to 25% for non-profits) to offset the cost of your insurance. This will bring down the cost of providing insurance.

  • Under the health care law, employer-based plans that provide health insurance to retirees ages 55-64 can now get financial help through the Early Retiree Reinsurance Program. This program is designed to lower the cost of premiums for all employees and reduce employer health costs.

  • Starting in 2014, the small business tax credit goes up to 50% (up to 35% for non-profits) for qualifying businesses. This will make the cost of providing insurance even lower.

  • In 2014, small businesses with generally fewer than 100 employees can shop in an Affordable Insurance Exchange, which gives you power similar to what large businesses have to get better choices and lower prices. An Exchange is a new marketplace where individuals and small businesses can buy affordable health benefit plans.

  • Exchanges will offer a choice of plans that meet certain benefits and cost standards. Starting in 2014, members of Congress will be getting their health care insurance through Exchanges, and you will be able to buy your insurance through Exchanges, too.

  • Employers with fewer than 50 employees are exempt from new employer responsibility policies. They don’t have to pay an assessment if their employees get tax credits through an Exchange.

Ray McGovern, a retired CIA agent whose expertise was the old Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc countries says the propaganda coming out of Fox News is at the same level as Pravda. But I suspect most Russians knew Pravda was propaganda.

"Pravda Reports"
of course, that is news- the gov't says it plans will work
Check out Papa Obama's website- they say it is great, as well
:eusa_whistle:


7/23/12 One in 10 employers plans to drop health benefits, study finds

The study found that smaller firms were most likely to say they will drop coverage. Thirteen percent of companies with 50 to 100 workers said they would end policies within three years, compared with 2 percent of companies with more than 1,000 workers.

Survey: Under ObamaCare, companies could save billions by dropping health insurance coverage
Even after paying a penalty of $2,000 per employee, the companies stand to save $28.6 billion in 2014 alone by shifting employees to health insurance exchanges governed by strict federal standards. The companies stand to save more than $422 billion over the first 10 years of the law by doing this.
"The penalties for the employers who drop coverage are very low, and the subsidies for the workers in the exchanges are very high," said James Capretta, with the Ethics and Public Policy Center.



So much for if you like your plan you will be able to keep it
Yes unintended consequences and more
costs that were not factored in.....

The law will decrease costs, strengthen businesses and make it easier for employers to provide coverage to their workers.

The Congressional Budget Office added that most employers "will continue to have an economic incentive to offer health insurance to their employees."

CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) continue to expect that the Affordable Care Act (ACA)—the health care legislation enacted in March 2010—will lead to a small reduction in the number of people receiving employment-based health insurance. Some observers have expressed surprise that CBO and JCT have not expected a much larger reduction given the expanded eligibility for Medicaid and the subsidies for insurance coverage purchased through health insurance “exchanges” that will result from the ACA. CBO and JCT’s estimates take account of those factors, but they also recognize that the legislation leaves in place some financial incentives and also creates new financial incentives for firms to offer and for many people to obtain health insurance coverage through their employers.

Bullshit....Employers will drop insurance coverage because it is cheaper for them to do so.
Step back from the Obama cheerleading and face some facts.
My wife has us under her employer's insurance. She pays almost $500 per month.
The rest of the cost is on the employer. Roughly $18k per year. So, the employer will look at that cost and compare it to the 8% that the federal government would fine the company for not providing the insurance coverage. Case closed.
Reduce cost? No. Obama care may reduce the price charged to the recipient of care, but the plan will not be able to control COST. The COST of medical care will continue to rise.
New technology, new medicines, etc...Those items COST money. The only way to achieve any "savings' is for government to subsidize the COST. In other words more debt will be created to cover the COST.
Brilliant.
Obamacare MUST be repealed if not then gutted.
It's job killing disaster.
 
For all you 'so called' small businessmen/women

Why am I a "so called" small businessman? Your start your speech to assure me by insulting me? Sounds like Obama, I'll give you that.

bfgrn is a dyed in the wool anti-capitalist.
He and those like him despise free enterprise. They hate achievement and success.
They view wealth as the property of the US Government.
 
For all you 'so called' small businessmen/women

Why am I a "so called" small businessman? Your start your speech to assure me by insulting me? Sounds like Obama, I'll give you that.

Because people call you that? A bit sensitive today, is it your period?

He is not a "so called" small businessman. He IS a small businessman.
Big difference.
The former is a backhanded swipe. A snarky remark.
The latter is achievement.
 
  • Thanks
Reactions: kaz
Because people call you that? A bit sensitive today, is it your period?

That's not what "so called" means. So called means we're incorrectly called that.

"So called" can either mean incorrectly called, as you mention, or it could also mean "popularly referred to as"


so-called - definition of so-called by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


Depends on the context - but I wouldn't expect a rightie to know anything about context. Just react emotionally and get outraged at everything - that's all the right's good aat.

'
I would think he used "so called" because the ACA actually also helps out a lot of business that some might not consider "small"

But that's OK - please proceed with your outrage and get offended at everything a lefty says. Its all your type is good at.

Cut the crap. You libs are adept at hiding behind words and splitting hairs.
Not one of you has a real world bone in your collective bodies.
 
No Bfgrn, the health care issue is that its just too big a cost for most small businesses to consider period. I find it laughable that you tout Obamacare, when there is no price tag on it at all. You think it will be affordable, but there is no supporting evidence that it will be. COBRA certainly isn't affordable.
 
I really appreciate the continued liberal assault on us small business people. The evidence just keeps mounting that you really are the root cause of our problems in restarting this economy. November is just a great opportunity to discard all the drag you guys add to the economy.
 
As I understand it, they have to take what you give them as assumptions. They can call out the assumptions...which they did on several cases....as being really off the wall.

But they still have to give numbers based on what they are given.

So if you have: GARBAGE IN

You get: Obamacare

Poly want a cracker?

Obama’s 2010 Health Reform Plan Evokes 1993 Republican Bill

At the height of President Bill Clinton’s health care reform initiative, republicans proposed in 1993 an alternative bill. The bill, just like the Democratic version, never passed. But in concept, President Obama revived republicans’ ’93 health reform plan.

Today, we hear republicans’ feigned and plaintive wails of “Socialized medicine,” and “unconstitutionality.” Oh my!

Really? No, really? …’Cause seems to me that “Obamacare” actually saw birth as a republican idea!

In fact, the key provisions in the 1993 Republican bill should seem familiar, as they bear a strong resemblance to the provisions of recently enacted health reform.

♦A mandate that individuals buy insurance, ♦subsidies for the poor to buy insurance, ♦the requirement that insurers offer a standard benefits package, and ♦refrain from discriminating based on pre-existing conditions were all in the 1993 GOP bill, just as in “Obamacare.”

Former Republican Senator Durenberger believes the reason many of these ideas have been shunned by today’s Republicans, even called unconstitutional by some, is that political times have changed. “The main thing that’s changed is the definition of a Republican,” he said. Hum… changed to what definition? Oh yeh… that’s right: Party Of No.

Then as now, Republicans and conservative Democrats chipped away at the Clinton plan in 1993, while actually endorsing the President’s goal of universal health insurance coverage yet complaining that his proposal relied far too much on a complex Federal regulatory apparatus (well, what’s new here? …Same complaint about Obama).

How close are Obamacare and Republican’s Alternative Health Plan ’93? Very!

page-01.jpeg


Republicans support Obama’s health reforms — as long as his name isn’t on them

What’s particularly interesting about this poll is that solid majorities of Republicans favor most of the law’s main provisions.

* Eighty percent of Republicans favor “creating an insurance pool where small businesses and uninsured have access to insurance exchanges to take advantage of large group pricing benefits.” That’s backed by 75 percent of independents.

* Fifty-seven percent of Republicans support “providing subsidies on a sliding scale to aid individuals and families who cannot afford health insurance.” That’s backed by 67 percent of independents.

* Fifty-four percent of Republicans favor “requiring companies with more than 50 employees to provide insurance for their employers.” That’s backed by 75 percent of independents.

* Fifty two percent of Republicans favor “allowing children to stay on parents insurance until age 26.” That’s backed by 69 percent of independents.

* Seventy eight percent of Republicans support “banning insurance companies from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions; 86 percent of Republicans favor “banning insurance companies from cancelling policies because a person becomes ill.” Those are backed by 82 percent of independents and 87 percent of independents.

* One provision that isn’t backed by a majority of Republicans: The one “expanding Medicaid to families with incomes less than $30,000 per year.”

“Most Republicans want to have good health coverage,” Ipsos research director Chris Jackson tells me. “They just don’t necessarily like what it is Obama is doing.”

I’d add that Republicans and independents favor regulation of the health insurance system in big numbers. But the law has become so defined by the individual mandate — not to mention Obama himself — that public sentiment on the reforms themselves has been entirely drowned out.

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Hey asswipe....

How does that apply to what I posted.

Or did you just need to get this off your chest even though it has no relevance to the topic at hand ?

Feel better ? Good. Now go f**k yourself.

He who angers you conquers you.
E. Kenny
 
The law will decrease costs, strengthen businesses and make it easier for employers to provide coverage to their workers.

The Congressional Budget Office added that most employers "will continue to have an economic incentive to offer health insurance to their employees."

CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) continue to expect that the Affordable Care Act (ACA)—the health care legislation enacted in March 2010—will lead to a small reduction in the number of people receiving employment-based health insurance. Some observers have expressed surprise that CBO and JCT have not expected a much larger reduction given the expanded eligibility for Medicaid and the subsidies for insurance coverage purchased through health insurance “exchanges” that will result from the ACA. CBO and JCT’s estimates take account of those factors, but they also recognize that the legislation leaves in place some financial incentives and also creates new financial incentives for firms to offer and for many people to obtain health insurance coverage through their employers.

It has just as good a chance of bringing my mother back from the grave.

The CBO ? Really ?

these people on the left just do what they are told. They believe the propaganda.
These government organizations are under the control of the Obama regime. Non partisan my ass.
No department of the federal government is going to publicly write or say anything that makes Obama look bad.
These 'so-called' facts are bullshit.
 

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