"You didn't get there on your own"

[The T]

That's actually was a Romney quote before an Obama quote

He was talking about Olympians. He obviously thinks that athletes don't deserve credit for their success.

BULLSHIT ^^ 100%

Keep trying Ooh pah...but you'll never get there.

Obama fucked UP telling the people who he really IS and YOU know it.

What gets me is that he is running from it.

This is clearly his place and yet he hides from it.

Recall the effort to tamp down the "spread the wealth" comment.

I'd like the guy better and trust him (still would not vote for him) if he wasn't such a liar.

He's a collectivist but he won't admit it.

I don't think collectivists are evil...I just don't want them running things.

I do think BHO is a fraud.

Yeah...I remember 'Joe The Plumber' quite well and the aftermath on how the media craweled up his ass with a microscope...but the Media FAILED to do the same with Obama...and continue to fail.

 

[Neotrotsky]

For all you 'so called' small businessmen/women. One of the biggest handicaps small business has in regards to health care costs is that they don't get the price breaks large corporations get. The Affordable Care Act addresses that disadvantage:


Small Businesses and the Affordable Care Act

You know the value of providing health insurance to your employees. But it can be a real challenge for small businesses. On average, small businesses pay about 18% more than large firms for the same health insurance policy. And small businesses lack the purchasing power that larger employers have. The health care law provides tax credits and soon - the ability to shop for insurance in Exchanges that help close this gap.

Top Things to Know for Small Businesses

• If you have up to 25 employees, pay average annual wages below $50,000, and provide health insurance, you may qualify for a small business tax credit of up to 35% (up to 25% for non-profits) to offset the cost of your insurance. This will bring down the cost of providing insurance.

• Under the health care law, employer-based plans that provide health insurance to retirees ages 55-64 can now get financial help through the Early Retiree Reinsurance Program. This program is designed to lower the cost of premiums for all employees and reduce employer health costs.

• Starting in 2014, the small business tax credit goes up to 50% (up to 35% for non-profits) for qualifying businesses. This will make the cost of providing insurance even lower.

• In 2014, small businesses with generally fewer than 100 employees can shop in an Affordable Insurance Exchange, which gives you power similar to what large businesses have to get better choices and lower prices. An Exchange is a new marketplace where individuals and small businesses can buy affordable health benefit plans.

• Exchanges will offer a choice of plans that meet certain benefits and cost standards. Starting in 2014, members of Congress will be getting their health care insurance through Exchanges, and you will be able to buy your insurance through Exchanges, too.

• Employers with fewer than 50 employees are exempt from new employer responsibility policies. They don’t have to pay an assessment if their employees get tax credits through an Exchange.

Ray McGovern, a retired CIA agent whose expertise was the old Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc countries says the propaganda coming out of Fox News is at the same level as Pravda. But I suspect most Russians knew Pravda was propaganda.

"Pravda Reports"
of course, that is news- the gov't says it plans will work
Check out Papa Obama's website- they say it is great, as well



7/23/12 One in 10 employers plans to drop health benefits, study finds

The study found that smaller firms were most likely to say they will drop coverage. Thirteen percent of companies with 50 to 100 workers said they would end policies within three years, compared with 2 percent of companies with more than 1,000 workers.​

Survey: Under ObamaCare, companies could save billions by dropping health insurance coverage

Even after paying a penalty of $2,000 per employee, the companies stand to save $28.6 billion in 2014 alone by shifting employees to health insurance exchanges governed by strict federal standards. The companies stand to save more than $422 billion over the first 10 years of the law by doing this.
"The penalties for the employers who drop coverage are very low, and the subsidies for the workers in the exchanges are very high," said James Capretta, with the Ethics and Public Policy Center.

​

So much for if you like your plan you will be able to keep it
Yes unintended consequences and more
costs that were not factored in.....

 

[Contumacious]

.Obama is taking an interesting and dangerous approach on the campaign trail, telling successful business owners that they "didn't get there on their own", that their success is predicated in part on the labor and efforts (and taxes) of others. .

For every Bill Gates, there are a thousand Joe Programmers at Microsoft who are smart and talented. They are the second line of the elite, in Marx’s view, the bourgeois. For every Joe Programmer at Microsoft, there are a thousand Mary Secretaries, a thousand Bob Lawnmower, a thousand Doug Factoryworker, and SusieGovernmentbureaucrat; these are the proletariat in the Marxian view.

None of them have the combination of mental ability, circumstance, and determination that Bill Gates has, and most of them know it. However, these thousands have a lot more votes than Bill and his programmers. Those votes are political power, and the Marxists know it.

.

 

[Murf76]

Alexander Hamilton (among the founding fathers), rallying support for the ratification of the US Constitution, wrote this about taxes:

"Thus far the ends of public happiness will be promoted by supplying the wants of government, and all beyond this is unworthy of our care or anxiety. How is it possible
that a government half supplied and always necessitous, can fulfill the purposes of its institution, can provide for the security, advance the prosperity, or support the
reputation of the commonwealth? How can it ever possess either energy or stability, dignity or credit, confidence at home or respectability abroad? How can its administration be any thing else than a succession of expedients temporizing, impotent, disgraceful? How will it be able to avoid a frequent sacrifice of its engagements to immediate necessity? How can it undertake or execute any liberal or enlarged plans of public good?"

Even those embodying the "invisible hand" of laissez-faire capitalism recognize the public good of freeing those in business from the dangers of fraud, breach of contract, safety from fire, protection from criminals (whether disenfranchised marauders, corporate thieves, or terrorists), etc. The founding fathers recognized how commerce would be enhanced by public infrastructure. Yes, these are all paid by taxes. Since they are therefore provided, businesses can be built.

This doesn't touch on the fact that most of modern businesses (which depend on computers, the internet, telecommunications, interstate roads, etc.) could not exist without the educated populace and government investments that gave rise to such tools (the list goes on).

I have owned and now run small businesses successfully. I've worked hard. I am reasonably clever. I asked for no handouts. However, I'm not so deluded to think that my success arose from my sheer efforts alone. I think those who believe so need a reality check.

Of course I pay taxes (fed, state and local), since I appreciate most of the services paid for by them.

Do you think you're not paying enough then? Bear in mind that everything Obama said the other day was in the context of arguing his tax policy and why he thinks it's okay to ask more from people like you?

I don't have anything like the problem you imply... I never said that infrastructure was all that is in the federal budget. I merely pointed out that it is "American" to use taxes to execute plans for the public good (which CrusaderFrank had denied).

CrusaderFrank wrote this in post #14, clearly in a response to Barack Obama's speech in Roanoke. Certainly, he can speak for himself on his meaning, but I don't see anything in that which suggests that he has a problem with the constitutionally enumerated function of federal government, but rather that he found Obama's argument unconvincing and unacceptable. Probably on multiple levels, much as I did.

Originally Posted by CrusaderFrank View Post
And it only resonates with the people who never had exposure to American free enterprise, the ones who embrace this are the losers, the slackers, the Mommy's basement resident, the feeble-minded who are convinced that they failed because America is so darn mean-spirited. It's not just an unAmerican attitude, it's anti-American

As I attempted to explain to you earlier, all the federal spending that could be considered of use to businesses, things like national security and education, are already paid for with less than 25% of federal spending. My use of "here's your problem" simply means that your argument isn't holding water. It's not the Republican position that we shouldn't pay any taxes in order to live in a decent society. It wasn't CrusaderFrank's position either, I dare say.

I know what a "straw man argument" is; it's what you have done here to me. I never said that republicans are anarchists who don't believe in paying taxes that promote a decent society.

I don't think I misunderstood your meaning. You posted Hamilton's reasoning for why federal government needed to be provided with revenues, but no one's arguing that it shouldn't. Federal government has been WELL provided since Hamilton made his argument. In fact, revenues have tripled since 1965, and that's in adjusted dollars. Problem is... spending has more than quintupled.

Reagan introduced the "reform" of changing from a "tax and spend" federal government to a "borrow and spend" policy. We have been swallowed by mushrooming debt since (except during Clinton's term). As a proportion of GDP, the current rate of increase in the debt is on par with those of Reagan and both the Bushes (search "Federal Debt and GDP" and review the facts under usgovernmentspending, zfacts, etc.... i'm too much of a noob here to post a url). This fact may not be good, but it is NOT different.

Reagan isn't president anymore. And he's not the one who ran our national debt up to almost 16 trillion. I don't have time to get into a protracted debate on the merits and lack thereof of Keynesian spending or the Federal Reserve. Unfortunately, I've got alot more to get accomplished in real life today. Let me just say this though... our problem is unrestrained entitlements. And this administration, much the same as the ones before it, have done NOTHING to reform them. So while lots of politicians, both Democrat and Republican have culpability in the situation we find ourselves in right now, I hold the current administration in particular contempt for adding an entirely new one of gigantic proportions, already forecast by the CBO to cost three times what they said it would. Insult to injury, they won't even bother themselves to produce a federal budget.

(Oh... and btw, to do links, you can simply copy-and-paste if you like. But there's also a symbol right above the text box with a little globe and yellow hyperlink symbol. You can copy the address of the page you want to link and paste it in the drop box that presents itself. When you confirm with "ok", you'll note that some of the text will be highlighted. That portion is removable, and you can replace it with any text you like.
ie. Enforcement of Copyright
I linked you a thread on the board's copyright policy. Useful if you're going to be quoting and linking articles.)

WHY should even one citizen, no matter how filthy rich, be forced to provide another red cent to this reckless, irresponsible administration???

The real problem for all of us is that the institutions of the global banking system has financialized the world's dominant economies and both parties support that system that bankrupts us all.

I'm still interested in why any American should have to pay anything in additional taxes until this administration does its job.

 

[Murf76]

That's actually was a Romney quote before an Obama quote

He was talking about Olympians. He obviously thinks that athletes don't deserve credit for their success.

BULLSHIT ^^ 100%

Keep trying Ooh pah...but you'll never get there.

Obama fucked UP telling the people who he really IS and YOU know it.

My bad, I guess romney wasn't first

Romney to Olympians: 'You didn't get here solely on your own' - First Read

Was just copying off the President then.

Suggesting a round of applause isn't quite the same as imposing additional taxation, which is ultimately enforced at the point of gun. But nice try.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Ray McGovern, a retired CIA agent whose expertise was the old Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc countries says the propaganda coming out of Fox News is at the same level as Pravda. But I suspect most Russians knew Pravda was propaganda.

1) Of course that is perfectly 100% idiotic since most of the shows feature debates with liberals, which MSNBC does not.

2) of course if propaganda liberals would give their best examples rather than lie like typical liberals

3) Fox is the nation's savior in may ways. It has the only libertarian shows in the history of American TV. Finally our Founder's philosophy
is being resurrected after the deadly treasonous liberal cancer had its way for so long.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Ray McGovern, a retired CIA agent whose expertise was the old Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc countries says the propaganda coming out of Fox News is at the same level as Pravda. But I suspect most Russians knew Pravda was propaganda.

1) Of course that is perfectly 100% idiotic since most of the shows feature debates with liberals, which MSNBC does not.

2) of course if propaganda liberals would give their best examples rather than lie like typical liberals

3) Fox is the nation's savior in may ways. It has the only libertarian shows in the history of American TV. Finally our Founder's philosophy
is being resurrected after the deadly treasonous liberal cancer had its way for so long.

Ray has been a political activist for the radical leftist for years
He called Julian Assange a "Hero", what a loon
He is so leftist, even the wimpy left we have in power have to ignore him sometimes


No doubt he would see the ABC false attempts to equate the Tea Party
to recent massacre in Colorado as good reporting.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Ray McGovern, a retired CIA agent whose expertise was the old Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc countries says the propaganda coming out of Fox News is at the same level as Pravda. But I suspect most Russians knew Pravda was propaganda.

1) Of course that is perfectly 100% idiotic since most of the shows feature debates with liberals, which MSNBC does not.

2) of course if propaganda liberals would give their best examples rather than lie like typical liberals

3) Fox is the nation's savior in may ways. It has the only libertarian shows in the history of American TV. Finally our Founder's philosophy
is being resurrected after the deadly treasonous liberal cancer had its way for so long.

Ray has been a political activist for the radical leftist for years
He called Julian Assange a "Hero", what a loon
He is so leftist, even the wimpy left we have in power have to ignore him sometimes


No doubt he would see the ABC false attempts to equate the Tea Party
to recent massacre in Colorado as good reporting.

Yes I'm really worried that a silly liberal will be able to refute my 3 points above.

A liberal lacks the IQ to think in terms of logical arguments so he is almost impossible to defeat.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

BULLSHIT ^^ 100%

Keep trying Ooh pah...but you'll never get there.

Obama fucked UP telling the people who he really IS and YOU know it.

My bad, I guess romney wasn't first

Romney to Olympians: 'You didn't get here solely on your own' - First Read

Was just copying off the President then.

Suggesting a round of applause isn't quite the same as imposing additional taxation, which is ultimately enforced at the point of gun. But nice try.

The IRS usually seizes bank assets or garnishes wages and salaries when it is owed money you refuse to pay. Seldom does it require a weapon. I have no idea how we got on the subject of law enforcement - but why not? So go ahead and explain to us how you would prefer the IRS collect unpaid taxes? Should they just ask nicely? Perhaps send a singing telegram?

 

[kaz]

For all you 'so called' small businessmen/women

Why am I a "so called" small businessman? Your start your speech to assure me by insulting me? Sounds like Obama, I'll give you that.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

explain to us how you would prefer the IRS collect unpaid taxes?

Honestly, thats how!!! There should be just one tax for everything the liberals spend, no withholding taxes, and it all should be payed on election day.

That way we'd all experience the true cost of government and liberals could be eliminated as our Constitution intended.

 

[Neotrotsky]

For all you 'so called' small businessmen/women

Why am I a "so called" small businessman? Your start your speech to assure me by insulting me? Sounds like Obama, I'll give you that.

Because, in Papa Obama and the Left's mind
you didn't build it

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

For all you 'so called' small businessmen/women

Why am I a "so called" small businessman? Your start your speech to assure me by insulting me? Sounds like Obama, I'll give you that.

Because people call you that? A bit sensitive today, is it your period?

 

[kaz]

For all you 'so called' small businessmen/women

Why am I a "so called" small businessman? Your start your speech to assure me by insulting me? Sounds like Obama, I'll give you that.

Because people call you that? A bit sensitive today, is it your period?

That's not what "so called" means. So called means we're incorrectly called that.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Why am I a "so called" small businessman? Your start your speech to assure me by insulting me? Sounds like Obama, I'll give you that.

Because people call you that? A bit sensitive today, is it your period?

That's not what "so called" means. So called means we're incorrectly called that.

"So called" can either mean incorrectly called, as you mention, or it could also mean "popularly referred to as"


so-called - definition of so-called by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


Depends on the context - but I wouldn't expect a rightie to know anything about context. Just react emotionally and get outraged at everything - that's all the right's good aat.

'
I would think he used "so called" because the ACA actually also helps out a lot of business that some might not consider "small"

But that's OK - please proceed with your outrage and get offended at everything a lefty says. Its all your type is good at.

 

[ItsjustmeIthink]

No point in arguing, Ima just accept the CON$ way of thinking and say that businesses don't need civilization. That is, afterall, what they're pretty much saying.

 

[Bfgrn]

For all you 'so called' small businessmen/women. One of the biggest handicaps small business has in regards to health care costs is that they don't get the price breaks large corporations get. The Affordable Care Act addresses that disadvantage:


Small Businesses and the Affordable Care Act

You know the value of providing health insurance to your employees. But it can be a real challenge for small businesses. On average, small businesses pay about 18% more than large firms for the same health insurance policy. And small businesses lack the purchasing power that larger employers have. The health care law provides tax credits and soon - the ability to shop for insurance in Exchanges that help close this gap.

Top Things to Know for Small Businesses

• If you have up to 25 employees, pay average annual wages below $50,000, and provide health insurance, you may qualify for a small business tax credit of up to 35% (up to 25% for non-profits) to offset the cost of your insurance. This will bring down the cost of providing insurance.

• Under the health care law, employer-based plans that provide health insurance to retirees ages 55-64 can now get financial help through the Early Retiree Reinsurance Program. This program is designed to lower the cost of premiums for all employees and reduce employer health costs.

• Starting in 2014, the small business tax credit goes up to 50% (up to 35% for non-profits) for qualifying businesses. This will make the cost of providing insurance even lower.

• In 2014, small businesses with generally fewer than 100 employees can shop in an Affordable Insurance Exchange, which gives you power similar to what large businesses have to get better choices and lower prices. An Exchange is a new marketplace where individuals and small businesses can buy affordable health benefit plans.

• Exchanges will offer a choice of plans that meet certain benefits and cost standards. Starting in 2014, members of Congress will be getting their health care insurance through Exchanges, and you will be able to buy your insurance through Exchanges, too.

• Employers with fewer than 50 employees are exempt from new employer responsibility policies. They don’t have to pay an assessment if their employees get tax credits through an Exchange.

Ray McGovern, a retired CIA agent whose expertise was the old Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc countries says the propaganda coming out of Fox News is at the same level as Pravda. But I suspect most Russians knew Pravda was propaganda.

"Pravda Reports"
of course, that is news- the gov't says it plans will work
Check out Papa Obama's website- they say it is great, as well



7/23/12 One in 10 employers plans to drop health benefits, study finds

The study found that smaller firms were most likely to say they will drop coverage. Thirteen percent of companies with 50 to 100 workers said they would end policies within three years, compared with 2 percent of companies with more than 1,000 workers.​

Survey: Under ObamaCare, companies could save billions by dropping health insurance coverage

Even after paying a penalty of $2,000 per employee, the companies stand to save $28.6 billion in 2014 alone by shifting employees to health insurance exchanges governed by strict federal standards. The companies stand to save more than $422 billion over the first 10 years of the law by doing this.
"The penalties for the employers who drop coverage are very low, and the subsidies for the workers in the exchanges are very high," said James Capretta, with the Ethics and Public Policy Center.

​

So much for if you like your plan you will be able to keep it
Yes unintended consequences and more
costs that were not factored in.....

The law will decrease costs, strengthen businesses and make it easier for employers to provide coverage to their workers.

The Congressional Budget Office added that most employers "will continue to have an economic incentive to offer health insurance to their employees."

CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) continue to expect that the Affordable Care Act (ACA)—the health care legislation enacted in March 2010—will lead to a small reduction in the number of people receiving employment-based health insurance. Some observers have expressed surprise that CBO and JCT have not expected a much larger reduction given the expanded eligibility for Medicaid and the subsidies for insurance coverage purchased through health insurance “exchanges” that will result from the ACA. CBO and JCT’s estimates take account of those factors, but they also recognize that the legislation leaves in place some financial incentives and also creates new financial incentives for firms to offer and for many people to obtain health insurance coverage through their employers.

 

[kaz]

Because people call you that? A bit sensitive today, is it your period?

That's not what "so called" means. So called means we're incorrectly called that.

"So called" can either mean incorrectly called, as you mention, or it could also mean "popularly referred to as"


so-called - definition of so-called by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


Depends on the context - but I wouldn't expect a rightie to know anything about context. Just react emotionally and get outraged at everything - that's all the right's good aat.

'
I would think he used "so called" because the ACA actually also helps out a lot of business that some might not consider "small"

But that's OK - please proceed with your outrage and get offended at everything a lefty says. Its all your type is good at.

I asked a question, it's ironic the hysterical over-reactor is the one objecting to overreacting. Since the obvious is not your strong suit, just so you know, that's a reference to you, Homey. Chill.

I am aware of the alternate definition of popular usage, but that made even less sense. That would be a reference like if you said a new toy was the "so called gift of the season." Small business men is just a term, it's not a "popular" term.

 

[Neotrotsky]

For all you 'so called' small businessmen/women. One of the biggest handicaps small business has in regards to health care costs is that they don't get the price breaks large corporations get. The Affordable Care Act addresses that disadvantage:


Small Businesses and the Affordable Care Act

You know the value of providing health insurance to your employees. But it can be a real challenge for small businesses. On average, small businesses pay about 18% more than large firms for the same health insurance policy. And small businesses lack the purchasing power that larger employers have. The health care law provides tax credits and soon - the ability to shop for insurance in Exchanges that help close this gap.

Top Things to Know for Small Businesses

• If you have up to 25 employees, pay average annual wages below $50,000, and provide health insurance, you may qualify for a small business tax credit of up to 35% (up to 25% for non-profits) to offset the cost of your insurance. This will bring down the cost of providing insurance.

• Under the health care law, employer-based plans that provide health insurance to retirees ages 55-64 can now get financial help through the Early Retiree Reinsurance Program. This program is designed to lower the cost of premiums for all employees and reduce employer health costs.

• Starting in 2014, the small business tax credit goes up to 50% (up to 35% for non-profits) for qualifying businesses. This will make the cost of providing insurance even lower.

• In 2014, small businesses with generally fewer than 100 employees can shop in an Affordable Insurance Exchange, which gives you power similar to what large businesses have to get better choices and lower prices. An Exchange is a new marketplace where individuals and small businesses can buy affordable health benefit plans.

• Exchanges will offer a choice of plans that meet certain benefits and cost standards. Starting in 2014, members of Congress will be getting their health care insurance through Exchanges, and you will be able to buy your insurance through Exchanges, too.

• Employers with fewer than 50 employees are exempt from new employer responsibility policies. They don’t have to pay an assessment if their employees get tax credits through an Exchange.

Ray McGovern, a retired CIA agent whose expertise was the old Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc countries says the propaganda coming out of Fox News is at the same level as Pravda. But I suspect most Russians knew Pravda was propaganda.

"Pravda Reports"
of course, that is news- the gov't says it plans will work
Check out Papa Obama's website- they say it is great, as well



7/23/12 One in 10 employers plans to drop health benefits, study finds

The study found that smaller firms were most likely to say they will drop coverage. Thirteen percent of companies with 50 to 100 workers said they would end policies within three years, compared with 2 percent of companies with more than 1,000 workers.​

Survey: Under ObamaCare, companies could save billions by dropping health insurance coverage

Even after paying a penalty of $2,000 per employee, the companies stand to save $28.6 billion in 2014 alone by shifting employees to health insurance exchanges governed by strict federal standards. The companies stand to save more than $422 billion over the first 10 years of the law by doing this.
"The penalties for the employers who drop coverage are very low, and the subsidies for the workers in the exchanges are very high," said James Capretta, with the Ethics and Public Policy Center.

​

So much for if you like your plan you will be able to keep it
Yes unintended consequences and more
costs that were not factored in.....

The law will decrease costs, strengthen businesses and make it easier for employers to provide coverage to their workers.

The Congressional Budget Office added that most employers "will continue to have an economic incentive to offer health insurance to their employees."

CBO and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) continue to expect that the Affordable Care Act (ACA)—the health care legislation enacted in March 2010—will lead to a small reduction in the number of people receiving employment-based health insurance. Some observers have expressed surprise that CBO and JCT have not expected a much larger reduction given the expanded eligibility for Medicaid and the subsidies for insurance coverage purchased through health insurance “exchanges” that will result from the ACA. CBO and JCT’s estimates take account of those factors, but they also recognize that the legislation leaves in place some financial incentives and also creates new financial incentives for firms to offer and for many people to obtain health insurance coverage through their employers.

Sure it will

No doubt it will run just as well as the Post Office

 

[kaz]

No point in arguing, Ima just accept the CON$ way of thinking and say that businesses don't need civilization. That is, afterall, what they're pretty much saying.

Our choices are that we weren't the primary ones who built our own businesses or we "don't need civilization?" Those polar extremes are our only choices? What a load.

I'll tell you one thing though. Civilization needs us more then we need to do what we do for civilization.