"You didn't get there on your own"

[zeke]

Hey muddy. Am I making fun of you? Fuking eh I am. What else is there to do with the bull shit you post?

 

[Mac1958]

Mac.....

Can you tell us what comments you are disappointed in or insulted by and why?

I already have.


.

Forgive me. I missed them. All I read was you saying that you are disappointed and insulted. Did you cite the specific comments that made you feel that way?

Maybe you can point me to the post. I went back as far as page 47. Was it further back?

I have no idea, nor do I care enough to wade through pages 47 and before.

But whatever it is, I'm sure you know far, far, far more about what it's like starting, building and maintaining a business than I do. As does Obama.

There. Simple. You win.

.

 

[zeke]

For

give me. I missed them. All I read was you saying that you are disappointed and insulted. Did you cite the specific comments that made you feel that way?

Maybe you can point me to the post. I went back as far as page 47. Was it further back?

You may need to break out the "way back" machine. As in "way back" in 2008 Obama was elected.
And a certain group of nameless politicians decided that Obama had to go. And from that point on, everything was bad BAD BAD. And hating the POTUS became the single most important activity that this group of punk politicians could do. And then they recruited the mental midgets that make up the Repub side of this board and here we are.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I already have.


.

Forgive me. I missed them. All I read was you saying that you are disappointed and insulted. Did you cite the specific comments that made you feel that way?

Maybe you can point me to the post. I went back as far as page 47. Was it further back?

I have no idea, nor do I care enough to wade through pages 47 and before.

But whatever it is, I'm sure you know far, far, far more about what it's like starting, building and maintaining a business than I do. As does Obama.

There. Simple. You win.

.

You have no idea about what comments Obama made that disapoiinted you and insulted you? I am sincerely asking you to elaborate on your complaint. You have NOT made yourself clear.

And....I know a little bit about that stuff. I have started two, built three and still maintain one. Simple.

 

[jillian]

"Why I think that personal experience should cause public policy to be biased against workers." Oy. Straw man arguments give me gas. I didn't say that, so I won't defend it. Moving on...

Indeed, you can fire any person for any reason or no reason. Just dump their butts with zero warning. And then wait for your HR department (if you work for a larger company) or the employee's attorney (if you don't) to give you a friendly phone call. Having consulted for manufacturing, home health care, insurance, retail and blue-collar service businesses many years ago, I can tell you some delightful stories about that. If the pile of documentation about "warnings" and "coachings" for a lousy employee doesn't stand about an inch an a half off your desk, you may want to give that person another chance. But yes, you're right, fire 'em at will. Correct.

But that's not the point of my post. The point is that Obama either (a) is playing to the crowd as politicians do, calculating that the votes he'll gain from "workers" will outweigh the votes he loses from business owners - probably true - or (b) he really does have a low opinion of business owners based on zero experience of what it's like. In either case, I was very disappointed in the comments. Just little 'ol me. Not trying to force public policy.

I don't expect you to agree, because I think I know that you'll be voting for him, and that's that. But as a person who has grown businesses from nothing to something (with some definite failures sprinkled in for fun), I was insulted by his comments. Just little 'ol me.

And my apologies for "rambling".

I wasn't looking for agreement. I was looking for explanation. I think, perhaps, my initial question colored our debate because it was probably disrespectful. Apologies for that. Your responses deserved better.

So to backtrack... our personal experience always colors our politics... and everything else, no doubt. But your comment about the president acting like workers are all good and victimized seems beside the point. I doubt all of any group are good.But in the greater scheme of things, the middle class doesn't exist in a natural state. The natural state of being is great wealth for the few... subsistence for the balance. If you doubt that, look at any country that has no such protections. The reason laws protecting workers were put in place in the first instance was exactly those types of inhuman and inhumane societal issues. I say that as a the grand-daughter of immigrants whose grandmother worked in a sweatshop at 12...

we've come a long way, baby.... and no thanks to the right which has opposed anything that benefits society as a whole since the days of FDR.

Again, I apologize for my initial disrespect. Sometimes, in the din, its easy to forget that some people can actually carry on a discussion here.

 

[zeke]

What is it you want Mac? Big tears because you started a business? Wasn't it your choice? Did you not reap the rewards that you thought were yours because you started a business?

Damn man. If you are a successful business man, quit whining.

Oh and btw, you need a better HR department. I read where your employees were ripping you off. Fire the HR manager and start over. Or is the HR manager YOU?

 

[GuyPinestra]

I already have.


.

Forgive me. I missed them. All I read was you saying that you are disappointed and insulted. Did you cite the specific comments that made you feel that way?

Maybe you can point me to the post. I went back as far as page 47. Was it further back?

I have no idea, nor do I care enough to wade through pages 47 and before.

But whatever it is, I'm sure you know far, far, far more about what it's like starting, building and maintaining a business than I do. As does Obama.

There. Simple. You win.

.

I recognize sarcasm mixed with resignation when I see it. Frustrating, isn't it?

 

[copsnrobbers]

This "IF YOU ARGUE WITH SUCCESS YOU ARE UNSUCCESSFUL"

 

[peach174]

Without the business helping to pay the taxes, there would be no roads and highways.
The businesses came before the highways.
With the business sector of this nation who invented the automobile, we would not have had the rise of our highways.
So it's the other way around Mr. President, it's businesses and entrepreneurs who support the need of government.
The web was from the military of which this administration is wanting to cut.
I'm sick of this attitude that government is the answer to everything, it is so anti American.

 

[naturegirl]

Well 749 posts and we're still talking about this. Obama has never owned a business, Obama has never had a "real" job, Obama was raised and mentored by a Communist, spent formative years in a different country. Had a mom that was more absent than present in his life, yet he knows no one got there on their own. Doesn't matter how hard you work, how much risk you take, how smart you are....................


So, I'm thinking he's using his personal experiences, he didn't get where he is on his own, no matter how smart he was, he had a lot of help along the way. So he doesn't believe anyone can do it on their own, Lord knows if he couldn't do it, no one can.

Yea, he's p*ssed off enough small business owners to get them to the voting booth. Good job energizing your opposition. Thanks Barry!!

 

[jillian]

^^^^^^^^

and the above is a prime example of why it's easy enough to forget there are people here who can have a discussion.

 

[Mac1958]

"Why I think that personal experience should cause public policy to be biased against workers." Oy. Straw man arguments give me gas. I didn't say that, so I won't defend it. Moving on...

Indeed, you can fire any person for any reason or no reason. Just dump their butts with zero warning. And then wait for your HR department (if you work for a larger company) or the employee's attorney (if you don't) to give you a friendly phone call. Having consulted for manufacturing, home health care, insurance, retail and blue-collar service businesses many years ago, I can tell you some delightful stories about that. If the pile of documentation about "warnings" and "coachings" for a lousy employee doesn't stand about an inch an a half off your desk, you may want to give that person another chance. But yes, you're right, fire 'em at will. Correct.

But that's not the point of my post. The point is that Obama either (a) is playing to the crowd as politicians do, calculating that the votes he'll gain from "workers" will outweigh the votes he loses from business owners - probably true - or (b) he really does have a low opinion of business owners based on zero experience of what it's like. In either case, I was very disappointed in the comments. Just little 'ol me. Not trying to force public policy.

I don't expect you to agree, because I think I know that you'll be voting for him, and that's that. But as a person who has grown businesses from nothing to something (with some definite failures sprinkled in for fun), I was insulted by his comments. Just little 'ol me.

And my apologies for "rambling".

I wasn't looking for agreement. I was looking for explanation. I think, perhaps, my initial question colored our debate because it was probably disrespectful. Apologies for that. Your responses deserved better.

So to backtrack... our personal experience always colors our politics... and everything else, no doubt. But your comment about the president acting like workers are all good and victimized seems beside the point. I doubt all of any group are good.But in the greater scheme of things, the middle class doesn't exist in a natural state. The natural state of being is great wealth for the few... subsistence for the balance. If you doubt that, look at any country that has no such protections. The reason laws protecting workers were put in place in the first instance was exactly those types of inhuman and inhumane societal issues. I say that as a the grand-daughter of immigrants whose grandmother worked in a sweatshop at 12...

we've come a long way, baby.... and no thanks to the right which has opposed anything that benefits society as a whole since the days of FDR.

Again, I apologize for my initial disrespect. Sometimes, in the din, its easy to forget that some people can actually carry on a discussion here.

First of all, thanks, and my apologies too for fanning the flames.

I brought up workers because part of what bothered me about his comments was the way he painted both business owners and employees with such an incredibly broad brush. That's the way politics is, I know, but I was still insulted, and if I want to be insulted I'll just call my mother in law.

At least walk a mile in my shoes before you insult me in that specific way, that's my only request. Then fire away.

.

 

[jillian]

"Why I think that personal experience should cause public policy to be biased against workers." Oy. Straw man arguments give me gas. I didn't say that, so I won't defend it. Moving on...

Indeed, you can fire any person for any reason or no reason. Just dump their butts with zero warning. And then wait for your HR department (if you work for a larger company) or the employee's attorney (if you don't) to give you a friendly phone call. Having consulted for manufacturing, home health care, insurance, retail and blue-collar service businesses many years ago, I can tell you some delightful stories about that. If the pile of documentation about "warnings" and "coachings" for a lousy employee doesn't stand about an inch an a half off your desk, you may want to give that person another chance. But yes, you're right, fire 'em at will. Correct.

But that's not the point of my post. The point is that Obama either (a) is playing to the crowd as politicians do, calculating that the votes he'll gain from "workers" will outweigh the votes he loses from business owners - probably true - or (b) he really does have a low opinion of business owners based on zero experience of what it's like. In either case, I was very disappointed in the comments. Just little 'ol me. Not trying to force public policy.

I don't expect you to agree, because I think I know that you'll be voting for him, and that's that. But as a person who has grown businesses from nothing to something (with some definite failures sprinkled in for fun), I was insulted by his comments. Just little 'ol me.

And my apologies for "rambling".

I wasn't looking for agreement. I was looking for explanation. I think, perhaps, my initial question colored our debate because it was probably disrespectful. Apologies for that. Your responses deserved better.

So to backtrack... our personal experience always colors our politics... and everything else, no doubt. But your comment about the president acting like workers are all good and victimized seems beside the point. I doubt all of any group are good.But in the greater scheme of things, the middle class doesn't exist in a natural state. The natural state of being is great wealth for the few... subsistence for the balance. If you doubt that, look at any country that has no such protections. The reason laws protecting workers were put in place in the first instance was exactly those types of inhuman and inhumane societal issues. I say that as a the grand-daughter of immigrants whose grandmother worked in a sweatshop at 12...

we've come a long way, baby.... and no thanks to the right which has opposed anything that benefits society as a whole since the days of FDR.

Again, I apologize for my initial disrespect. Sometimes, in the din, its easy to forget that some people can actually carry on a discussion here.

First of all, thanks, and my apologies too for fanning the flames.

I brought up workers because part of what bothered me about his comments was the way he painted both business owners and employees with such an incredibly broad brush. That's the way politics is, I know, but I was still insulted, and if I want to be insulted I'll just call my mother in law.

At least walk a mile in my shoes before you insult me in that specific way, that's my only request. Then fire away.

.

no worries.

i think politicians generally operate with a broad brush. they have to. it's how they get elected, for better or worse. and basically, it comes down to which guy offends your sensibilities less, in most instances.

my family has operated a business for the last 25 years. and, as i said, i had a law practice for more than a decade before i decided i wanted a job that allowed me more time with my son (i kept hearing the song, cat's in the cradle, running through my brain). haven't looked back since, btw...

i know there are employees who suck. but i never had one 'hurt' my practice. i never heard my dad or brother say an employee hurt there's.... though they have done more than their share of hiring and firing. and trust me, when they get to the voting booth, they vote their pocketbooks... not their consciences.

i've always felt that a strong middle class is a societal necessity. I tend to vote that way. That doesn't mean I always vote for a democrat (I voted for guiliani twice, fwiw) but right now on a federal level, it does.

 

[UKRider]

This Obama will flush the US down the crapper if he gets another 4 years.

 

[Mac1958]

i know there are employees who suck. but i never had one 'hurt' my practice. i never heard my dad or brother say an employee hurt there's.... though they have done more than their share of hiring and firing. and trust me, when they get to the voting booth, they vote their pocketbooks... not their consciences.

I've seen three lawsuits so far either from or about employees. Fortunately I wasn't involved directly in any of them, but here's my favorite story:

Many years ago I ran a large home health care company. The owners of the company were sued by a client and damn near lost the business. Why? Because one of their male caregivers was caught giving his male client a service that was not usually offered by the company.

If you know what I mean.



.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Well 749 posts and we're still talking about this. Obama has never owned a business, Obama has never had a "real" job, Obama was raised and mentored by a Communist, spent formative years in a different country. Had a mom that was more absent than present in his life, yet he knows no one got there on their own. Doesn't matter how hard you work, how much risk you take, how smart you are....................


So, I'm thinking he's using his personal experiences, he didn't get where he is on his own, no matter how smart he was, he had a lot of help along the way. So he doesn't believe anyone can do it on their own, Lord knows if he couldn't do it, no one can.

Yea, he's p*ssed off enough small business owners to get them to the voting booth. Good job energizing your opposition. Thanks Barry!!

Obama's a liar. He needs to release his records

He probably got help by pretending to be a foreign born student.

There's too big a cloud over him now, he needs to release his records

 

[Harry Dresden]

These white wingers are so far gone, they think the truth is "mocking" them.

your pretty far gone yourself Dean......thats why you get mocked.....

 

[mudwhistle]

I wasn't looking for agreement. I was looking for explanation. I think, perhaps, my initial question colored our debate because it was probably disrespectful. Apologies for that. Your responses deserved better.

So to backtrack... our personal experience always colors our politics... and everything else, no doubt. But your comment about the president acting like workers are all good and victimized seems beside the point. I doubt all of any group are good.But in the greater scheme of things, the middle class doesn't exist in a natural state. The natural state of being is great wealth for the few... subsistence for the balance. If you doubt that, look at any country that has no such protections. The reason laws protecting workers were put in place in the first instance was exactly those types of inhuman and inhumane societal issues. I say that as a the grand-daughter of immigrants whose grandmother worked in a sweatshop at 12...

we've come a long way, baby.... and no thanks to the right which has opposed anything that benefits society as a whole since the days of FDR.

Again, I apologize for my initial disrespect. Sometimes, in the din, its easy to forget that some people can actually carry on a discussion here.

First of all, thanks, and my apologies too for fanning the flames.

I brought up workers because part of what bothered me about his comments was the way he painted both business owners and employees with such an incredibly broad brush. That's the way politics is, I know, but I was still insulted, and if I want to be insulted I'll just call my mother in law.

At least walk a mile in my shoes before you insult me in that specific way, that's my only request. Then fire away.

.

no worries.

i think politicians generally operate with a broad brush. they have to. it's how they get elected, for better or worse. and basically, it comes down to which guy offends your sensibilities less, in most instances.

my family has operated a business for the last 25 years. and, as i said, i had a law practice for more than a decade before i decided i wanted a job that allowed me more time with my son (i kept hearing the song, cat's in the cradle, running through my brain). haven't looked back since, btw...

i know there are employees who suck. but i never had one 'hurt' my practice. i never heard my dad or brother say an employee hurt there's.... though they have done more than their share of hiring and firing. and trust me, when they get to the voting booth, they vote their pocketbooks... not their consciences.

i've always felt that a strong middle class is a societal necessity. I tend to vote that way. That doesn't mean I always vote for a democrat (I voted for guiliani twice, fwiw) but right now on a federal level, it does.

Voting Democrat assures that more and more in America will be "taken care of" rather than allowed to succeed.

Democrats have no incentive to support policies that strengthen the middle-class. Their support comes from the poor, blacks, latinos, and the Hollywood elitists. If you're not one of the last 3 guess what Democrats want to do to you?

Do they want to make you independant?
Do they want to make you rich?
Do they want you to have to rely on them?

Democrats don't really like a happy middle-class. They want loyal voters that feel they need help. Only way to do that is set up conditions that takes away your options thus your freedom to choose. After all, we need help in everything we do, according to Obama. We're stupid.

 

[Skull Pilot]

How do customers, supplies and employees get to your business?

on the roads his taxes paid for....next?

Wow...his meager taxes paid for every road bridge and tunnel that is used to support hos business.

Fact is......Everyone has contributed to provide infrastructure that Rozman needs to support his business. It is one of the benefits of belonging to a society

Fact is every person could benefit from infrastructure as much as a successful businessman.

So that one person does and others don't is no cause for that person to pay more than his share now is it?

And I've already shown you multiple times that businesses already pay more for "society" than the average American.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Wow...his meager taxes paid for every road bridge and tunnel that is used to support hos business.

Fact is......Everyone has contributed to provide infrastructure that Rozman needs to support his business. It is one of the benefits of belonging to a society

Meager taxes?...You obviously have NFI how much commercial trucking pays in tolls, registration, apportionment and fuel taxes.

Meager taxes indeed.

Meager when you compare the costs of building your own roads instead of using the ones that the GUBMINT built for you

How about we go back to roads, bridges and ferries like our founding fathers envisioned? All built by private entrepreneurs and you paid a toll for every one you used

A toll or a tax what's the difference.

I'd bet that privately run roads would be in better shape. It's government roads and bridges that collapse and kill people.