50 people shot in Chicago Memorial Day weekend

[2aguy]

The Chicago Police Chief said more gun laws might not work because these "gun offenders" don't always follow society's rules...

Can you imagine that?

It's the number of guns that are out there that's the problem.....In theory, most of these people shouldn't be able to buy guns. But they can get the from someone who can.

No...the problem is not locking up gun offenders....actual criminals for longer than 2 years......and attacking the police to the point they aren't going after known gang members who they know will be carrying illegal guns......


And Britain......where they banned guns...their gun crime rate in London went up 42% last year.....

And since nothing you have posted about guns is even remotely accurate or truthful......here is what happened when more Americans bought guns and carried them.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400 million guns in private hands and over 15.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[2aguy]

If somebody really wants to commit suicide, they're going to find a way to do so.

But what if they aren't that committed? Or they use a method where they can be stopped? I'm not saying we'll get rid of all 19,000 gun suicides by taking away your "compensation", but hey, cut them in half, I'll call it a win.

Let's say a burglar breaks into my house tonight. I don't know what their intentions are, what weapons they might have, etc. Give me a method that's equally as effective at protecting my children as having a gun would be.

A gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a member of your family than a bad guy. You might as well get a feral pit bull to protect your house. It will be just as effective and just as dangerous to your loved ones.

You know that that is a lie....you have been shown that that is a lie, and you keep posting that fake 43 number.......

Public Health and Gun Control: A Review



Since at least the mid-1980s, Dr. Kellermann (and associates), whose work had been heavily-funded by the CDC, published a series of studies purporting to show that persons who keep guns in the home are more likely to be victims of homicide than those who don¹t.

In a 1986 NEJM paper, Dr. Kellermann and associates, for example, claimed their "scientific research" proved that defending oneself or one¹s family with a firearm in the home is dangerous and counter productive, claiming "a gun owner is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder."8

In a critical review and now classic article published in the March 1994 issue of the Journal of the Medical Association of Georgia (JMAG), Dr. Edgar Suter, Chairman of Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research (DIPR), found evidence of "methodologic and conceptual errors," such as prejudicially truncated data and the listing of "the correct methodology which was described but never used by the authors."5

Moreover, the gun control researchers failed to consider and underestimated the protective benefits of guns.

Dr. Suter writes: "The true measure of the protective benefits of guns are the lives and medical costs saved, the injuries prevented, and the property protected ‹ not the burglar or rapist body count.

Since only 0.1 - 0.2 percent of defensive uses of guns involve the death of the criminal, any study, such as this, that counts criminal deaths as the only measure of the protective benefits of guns will expectedly underestimate the benefits of firearms by a factor of 500 to 1,000."5

In 1993, in his landmark and much cited NEJM article (and the research, again, heavily funded by the CDC), Dr. Kellermann attempted to show again that guns in the home are a greater risk to the victims than to the assailants.4 Despite valid criticisms by reputable scholars of his previous works (including the 1986 study), Dr. Kellermann ignored the criticisms and again used the same methodology.

He also used study populations with disproportionately high rates of serious psychosocial dysfunction from three selected state counties, known to be unrepresentative of the general U.S. population.

For example,

53 percent of the case subjects had a history of a household member being arrested,

31 percent had a household history of illicit drug use, 32 percent had a household member hit or hurt in a family fight, and

17 percent had a family member hurt so seriously in a domestic altercation that prompt medical attention was required.
Moreover, both the case studies and control groups in this analysis had a very high incidence of financial instability.

In fact, in this study, gun ownership, the supposedly high risk factor for homicide was not one of the most strongly associated factors for being murdered.

Drinking, illicit drugs, living alone, history of family violence, living in a rented home were all greater individual risk factors for being murdered than a gun in the home. One must conclude there is no basis to apply the conclusions of this study to the general population.

All of these are factors that, as Dr. Suter pointed out, "would expectedly be associated with higher rates of violence and homicide."5

It goes without saying, the results of such a study on gun homicides, selecting this sort of unrepresentative population sample, nullify the authors' generalizations, and their preordained, conclusions can not be extrapolated to the general population.

Moreover, although the 1993 New England Journal of Medicine study purported to show that the homicide victims were killed with a gun ordinarily kept in the home, the fact is that as Kates and associates point out 71.1 percent of the victims were killed by assailants who did not live in the victims¹ household using guns presumably not kept in that home.6

 

[2aguy]

If somebody really wants to commit suicide, they're going to find a way to do so.

But what if they aren't that committed? Or they use a method where they can be stopped? I'm not saying we'll get rid of all 19,000 gun suicides by taking away your "compensation", but hey, cut them in half, I'll call it a win.

Let's say a burglar breaks into my house tonight. I don't know what their intentions are, what weapons they might have, etc. Give me a method that's equally as effective at protecting my children as having a gun would be.

A gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a member of your family than a bad guy. You might as well get a feral pit bull to protect your house. It will be just as effective and just as dangerous to your loved ones.

-People who're not that committed don't commit suicide...also people who commit suicide very rarely tell other people-because they don't want others to attempt to stop them.

-Guns are more likely to kill a family member due to incompetent people, and I don't believe in dumbing down America due to incompetent people, do you? For the record my handgun requires my fingerprint in order to be used, and has a laser showing me exactly where the bullet's going to go. I'd aim right for the chest and take the burglar out. If a burglar is in my house and is putting the life of my kid at risk-I'm going to kill the burglar, no questions asked.

PS: Pets (by definition) can't be feral.

Actually, it isn't the gun......the problem is a criminal in the home, drug or alcohol abuse, and a history of violence.......they never tell you that those are actually what cause the problem and that homes with guns that don't have those things in the equation...don't end up with a death by gun....

 

[2aguy]

Each year over a million crimes are prevented by good citizens with guns.

No, they aren't. That's always been a BS number.

Only 201 cases of justified homicide with guns by civilians a year, according to the FBI.

-Guns are more likely to kill a family member due to incompetent people, and I don't believe in dumbing down America due to incompetent people, do you? For the record my handgun requires my fingerprint in order to be used, and has a laser showing me exactly where the bullet's going to go. I'd aim right for the chest and take the burglar out. If a burglar is in my house and is putting the life of my kid at risk-I'm going to kill the burglar, no questions asked.

I don't want to interupt your gun nut fantasy, but the numbers tell a different story. 19000 gun suicides, 11,000 gun homicides, 1000 gun accidents, every year... and only about 200 cases where some gun nut lives the dream of killing a bad guy.

Joe....you keep lying.........

Accidental gun death....

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf


Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC


2015...489http://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broker.exe

2014.....486

2013 ..... 505
2012 ..... 548
2011 ..... 591
2010 ..... 606
2009 ..... 554
2008 ..... 592
2007..... 613
2006..... 642
2005 ..... 789
2004 ..... 649
2003 ..... 730
2002 ..... 762
2001 ..... 802
2000 ..... 776
1999 ..... 824



Gun suicide.......

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2015
Gun suicide...

22,018

Non Gun suicide...

22,078
---------

2014....
Gun suicide....21,334
non gun....21,439

Gun murder 2015....

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Gun murder....9,616

 

[2aguy]

Each year over a million crimes are prevented by good citizens with guns.

No, they aren't. That's always been a BS number.

Only 201 cases of justified homicide with guns by civilians a year, according to the FBI.

-Guns are more likely to kill a family member due to incompetent people, and I don't believe in dumbing down America due to incompetent people, do you? For the record my handgun requires my fingerprint in order to be used, and has a laser showing me exactly where the bullet's going to go. I'd aim right for the chest and take the burglar out. If a burglar is in my house and is putting the life of my kid at risk-I'm going to kill the burglar, no questions asked.

I don't want to interupt your gun nut fantasy, but the numbers tell a different story. 19000 gun suicides, 11,000 gun homicides, 1000 gun accidents, every year... and only about 200 cases where some gun nut lives the dream of killing a bad guy.

And self defense with a gun, 40 years of research...notice that bill clinton's Justice Dept. Study....1,500,000 times a year....and obama's CDC.....500,000- 3,000,000

Self defense with a gun:

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...first is the name of the group that conducted the research, then the year, then the number of defensive gun uses and finally wether the research contained police or military defensive gun uses....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[2aguy]

So Joe, surely you don't have a gun and you have a big sign in your yard that says you are a gun free home.

No, I also don't have a sign telling people I have a big screen and a really nice computer, either.

I also don't have a yard because I live in a condo. But that's besides the point, because most burglars break in when no one is home, so there's no point giving them a shopping list.

Not in Britain.....they have more home invasions with people at home...where the criminals pour boiling water over the heads of the victims, and put hot clothing irons on their stomachs...because they know the people are unarmed....

An Englishman's home is his dungeon



Various reassuring types, from police spokesmen to the Economist, described the stabbing of the Moncktons as a "burglary gone wrong". If only more burglaries could go right, they imply, this sort of thing wouldn't happen.

But the trouble is that this kind of burglary - the kind most likely to go "wrong" - is now the norm in Britain. In America, it's called a "hot" burglary - a burglary that takes place when the homeowners are present - or a "home invasion", which is a much more accurate term. Just over 10 per cent of US burglaries are "hot" burglaries, and in my part of the world it's statistically insignificant: there is virtually zero chance of a New Hampshire home being broken into while the family are present. But in England and Wales it's more than 50 per cent and climbing. Which is hardly surprising given the police's petty, well-publicised pursuit of those citizens who have the impertinence to resist criminals.

These days, even as he or she is being clobbered, the more thoughtful British subject is usually keeping an eye (the one that hasn't been poked out) on potential liability. Four years ago, Shirley Best, proprietor of the Rolander Fashion emporium, whose clients include Zara Phillips, was ironing some clothes when the proverbial two youths showed up. They pressed the hot iron into her flesh, burning her badly, and then stole her watch. "I was frightened to defend myself," said Miss Best. "I thought if I did anything I would be arrested." There speaks the modern British crime victim.

 

[ninja007]

less libs.

 

[JoeB131]

Does the gunfire and sirens keep you up all night? Honest question.

No, it was a retarded question. But since you pee yourself every time you see a black person,I can understand your confusion.

 

[JoeB131]

Not in Britain.....they have more home invasions with people at home...where the criminals pour boiling water over the heads of the victims, and put hot clothing irons on their stomachs...because they know the people are unarmed....

yeah, I'm sure you read that on one of your NRA websites, but it's horseshit.

 

[JoeB131]

except the 1,500,000 times Americans use them each year to stop rapes, robberies and murders...

FBI says that there are only 47,000 DGU's a year. I'll go with what we can document.

Again, you'd have to believe that gun whackadoodles pull out their guns 1,500,000 times, but only manage to kill 200 bad guys?

 

[JoeB131]

No...the problem is not locking up gun offenders....actual criminals for longer than 2 years......and attacking the police to the point they aren't going after known gang members who they know will be carrying illegal guns......

But again, your boys at the NRA block those kinds of laws.

And sorry, when your police departments produce mutants like Jason van Dyke and John Burge, they deserve to be attacked.

Actually, it isn't the gun......the problem is a criminal in the home, drug or alcohol abuse, and a history of violence.......they never tell you that those are actually what cause the problem and that homes with guns that don't have those things in the equation...don't end up with a death by gun....

Well, that's a good case for doing thorough background checks.... Kind of like the Germans do.

But the alcohol didn't shoot that person, a gun did.

 

[2aguy]

Not in Britain.....they have more home invasions with people at home...where the criminals pour boiling water over the heads of the victims, and put hot clothing irons on their stomachs...because they know the people are unarmed....

yeah, I'm sure you read that on one of your NRA websites, but it's horseshit.

What is your fixation with the NRA......almost nothing I post comes from them dipshit......and when I do use them there is a link...just as there is a link to that article...does it fucking say NRA on it?

 

[2aguy]

except the 1,500,000 times Americans use them each year to stop rapes, robberies and murders...

FBI says that there are only 47,000 DGU's a year. I'll go with what we can document.

Again, you'd have to believe that gun whackadoodles pull out their guns 1,500,000 times, but only manage to kill 200 bad guys?

40 years of research on the topic....and the 1,500,000 comes from anti gun researchers paid for by bill clinton to refute Gary Kleck's work...and that is what they found....then obama paid 10 million dollars for his CDC in 2013 to review all of the gun research...they found 500,000 to 3 million defensive gun uses...as shown at that link....

Normal people do not kill easily...that is why you have so few moron criminals shot and killed....as the actual research shows the majority of times the criminal runs away..since they don't want to be shot.......they also surrender, or simply get shot and wounded.....that is what the actual research shows....

 

[2aguy]

No...the problem is not locking up gun offenders....actual criminals for longer than 2 years......and attacking the police to the point they aren't going after known gang members who they know will be carrying illegal guns......

But again, your boys at the NRA block those kinds of laws.

And sorry, when your police departments produce mutants like Jason van Dyke and John Burge, they deserve to be attacked.

Actually, it isn't the gun......the problem is a criminal in the home, drug or alcohol abuse, and a history of violence.......they never tell you that those are actually what cause the problem and that homes with guns that don't have those things in the equation...don't end up with a death by gun....

Well, that's a good case for doing thorough background checks.... Kind of like the Germans do.

But the alcohol didn't shoot that person, a gun did.

The NRA didn't block any laws moron....background checks don't catch criminals........the ones shooting each other on the street and in the domestic violence killings...they get their guns illegally, moron.....

 

[JoeB131]

What is your fixation with the NRA......

33,000 gun deaths a year... that's my fixation with the NRA. I will let you get back to spooging their propaganda all over this thread.

The NRA didn't block any laws moron....background checks don't catch criminals

Go back to my link from Fox News, where they did EXACTLY that in Illinois, where the legislature wanted to increase the penalty for illegal gun ownership, and the National Rampage Association started whining.

 

[JoeB131]

0 years of research on the topic....and the 1,500,000 comes from anti gun researchers p

No, it didn't.

The FBI found only 43,000 DGU's...

Again, I find it hard to believe that you guys pull your guns 1.5 million times a year, and almost never manage to kill a bad guy.

 

[2aguy]

What is your fixation with the NRA......

33,000 gun deaths a year... that's my fixation with the NRA. I will let you get back to spooging their propaganda all over this thread.

The NRA didn't block any laws moron....background checks don't catch criminals

Go back to my link from Fox News, where they did EXACTLY that in Illinois, where the legislature wanted to increase the penalty for illegal gun ownership, and the National Rampage Association started whining.

The NRA has nothing to do with the 22,000 suicides......the 489 accidental gun deaths or the 9,616 gun murders....the NRA educates people for gun safety dipshit.........

guns have no relevance in suicide

 

[2aguy]

What is your fixation with the NRA......

33,000 gun deaths a year... that's my fixation with the NRA. I will let you get back to spooging their propaganda all over this thread.

The NRA didn't block any laws moron....background checks don't catch criminals

Go back to my link from Fox News, where they did EXACTLY that in Illinois, where the legislature wanted to increase the penalty for illegal gun ownership, and the National Rampage Association started whining.

No...moron....the democrats are still fighting it....since their drug gang bosses are telling them to keep the sentences low.....

 

[2aguy]

0 years of research on the topic....and the 1,500,000 comes from anti gun researchers p

No, it didn't.

The FBI found only 43,000 DGU's...

Again, I find it hard to believe that you guys pull your guns 1.5 million times a year, and almost never manage to kill a bad guy.

The Department of Justice did the research.......the obama CDC did the research..the FBI counts bodies....they don't research the topic....

 

[2aguy]

0 years of research on the topic....and the 1,500,000 comes from anti gun researchers p

No, it didn't.

The FBI found only 43,000 DGU's...

Again, I find it hard to believe that you guys pull your guns 1.5 million times a year, and almost never manage to kill a bad guy.

The FBI doesn't do research...all of these people did the research....including clinton and obama....

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...first is the name of the group that conducted the research, then the year, then the number of defensive gun uses and finally wether the research contained police or military defensive gun uses....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....