A 1 percenter tells the truth about "job creators"

[The Rabbi]

Here is the problem.

A 1%er with good vision creates Widget company in the US. He/she is confident in his investment, starts up small and his company grows because of his vision and business sense, hiring well educated and hard working US workers. He smartly takes advantage of tax incentives and breaks to help his company. As his business grows he treats his employees well with good benefits, including a 401k and pension as well as health care to attract and retain smart and hard working people. This investment in US workers pays off as the company patents technology they develop and rapidly expands. The employees work hard with good morale and no need for union representation as they are compensated fairly.

The owner of Widget company has done well. He created thousands of jobs for US workers with his good business sense and has made a tidy sum for himself and his family for years to come. All the taxpayers of the US have helped him make this a reality by contributing to infastructure, education, safety, etc. for his company to thrive. He deserves his success and wealth due to his investment and ingenuity, and has created thousands of fair paying jobs for Americans with good benefits. Widget owner decides to sell the company and enjoy the fruits of his labor, as he deserves.

Biggee corp snaps up Widget company as well as Widget's competitor also based in the US. Biggee corp now has all the patents from both companies and controls 80% of the production in the world of these successful products. Biggee corp., based in the US, enjoys even better tax breaks than Widget co. ever did. Biggee corp lays off almost all of it's US employees for cheaper labor in China and Mexico. The CEO and board of Biggee corp. celebrate on their savings with millions in bonuses for themselves. The CEO, board, and biggest investors of Biggee are .01%ers and pay less percentage of tax per dollar than all the middle class workers of Widget co. and the 1%er that started it.

The .01% at Biggee are now enjoying paying less % in taxes than all the workers they laid off and even the 1% creator of the company they bought while enjoying all the big profits of something they had no work at all creating. The technology they bought was developed in the US aided by all US taxpayers and the hard work of the employees at Widget, including scientists and the production floor worker that did extra to help the company because they were compensated fairly for it.

The deck is stacked.

Was there a point to that fantasy?

 

[bripat9643]

My income trickles down and out.

My income comes from the wealthy.

When I have more, I spend more.

That's just your situation though. That is not most people.

The money that most people make is dependent on a healthy middle class.

Walk through any mall. All those jobs are there because of the stuff middle-class people buy, which keeps that mall going.

I'm sorry, but Donald Trump doesn't go to the mall.

Thousands of people who go to those malls work for Donald Trump. He provides them with jobs. He creates their "demand" by providing them with money to spend. Without the job people like him provide, there wouldn't be any "demand" for anything sold in the mall.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

People too stupid to accept the reality that demand creates most jobs (innovation is the other important job creator) deserve whatever fucking ReagaNUTics leads to.

You can be sure that if I am alive, I'll be cheering and waving my cane going "I told you so" watching news stories praising some of you "voluntarily" reporting an hour early for work in your pastel colored jumpsuits to have your blood scanned for junk food and drugs before calisthenics and the corporate oath.

And it's going to tickle the hell out of me because that is the only place fully metastized Keynesian economics (supply side, trickle down, voodoo, etc.) can possibly lead.

You're even less coherent than normal. Is it too few drugs or too much drink?

Whichever it is you'll do well to keep it in mind that tomorrow I'll be squared up while you will still be a victim of nature.

 

[Oldstyle]

I am absolutely amazed that they people on the Right maintain that if we tax corporate profits more, they will stop crreating jobs. This is ludicrus, considering that the cost of labor is an expense, and is therefore deducted from revenues, before arriving at a profit which is then taxed. Increasing the tax rate on corporations increases the incentive for the corporation to hire more people, thereby increasing production, while drecreasing their tax rate. Are these people suffering from some kind of basic economic brain block?

I'm sorry, Vandal but THAT made no sense at all. Raising the tax rate on corporations increases the incentive to hire more people which then decreases their tax rate? LOL How did you come up with that concept? Increasing tax rates lowers anticipated profits which in turn decreases the incentive for investors to risk capital.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

I am absolutely amazed that the people on the Right maintain that if we tax corporate profits more, they will stop crreating jobs. This is ludicrus, considering that the cost of labor is an expense, and is therefore deducted from revenues, before arriving at a profit which is then taxed. Increasing the tax rate on corporations increases the incentive for the corporation to hire more people, thereby increasing production, while drecreasing their tax rate. Are these people suffering from some kind of basic economic brain block?

You could have stopped with this and every rational reader would have understood. Nutball America is so beat down they don't even pretend to want to escape corporate control any more. If the right corporate shills told them the economy is controlled by the lunar cycle, that'd be the new conventional nutball wisdom.

 

[WheelieAddict]

Here is the problem.

A 1%er with good vision creates Widget company in the US. He/she is confident in his investment, starts up small and his company grows because of his vision and business sense, hiring well educated and hard working US workers. He smartly takes advantage of tax incentives and breaks to help his company. As his business grows he treats his employees well with good benefits, including a 401k and pension as well as health care to attract and retain smart and hard working people. This investment in US workers pays off as the company patents technology they develop and rapidly expands. The employees work hard with good morale and no need for union representation as they are compensated fairly.

The owner of Widget company has done well. He created thousands of jobs for US workers with his good business sense and has made a tidy sum for himself and his family for years to come. All the taxpayers of the US have helped him make this a reality by contributing to infastructure, education, safety, etc. for his company to thrive. He deserves his success and wealth due to his investment and ingenuity, and has created thousands of fair paying jobs for Americans with good benefits. Widget owner decides to sell the company and enjoy the fruits of his labor, as he deserves.

Biggee corp snaps up Widget company as well as Widget's competitor also based in the US. Biggee corp now has all the patents from both companies and controls 80% of the production in the world of these successful products. Biggee corp., based in the US, enjoys even better tax breaks than Widget co. ever did. Biggee corp lays off almost all of it's US employees for cheaper labor in China and Mexico. The CEO and board of Biggee corp. celebrate on their savings with millions in bonuses for themselves. The CEO, board, and biggest investors of Biggee are .01%ers and pay less percentage of tax per dollar than all the middle class workers of Widget co. and the 1%er that started it.

The .01% at Biggee are now enjoying paying less % in taxes than all the workers they laid off and even the 1% creator of the company they bought while enjoying all the big profits of something they had no work at all creating. The technology they bought was developed in the US aided by all US taxpayers and the hard work of the employees at Widget, including scientists and the production floor worker that did extra to help the company because they were compensated fairly for it.

The deck is stacked.

Was there a point to that fantasy?

It is not a fantasy. It is reality. Hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs were not lost just because of unions or crappy US workers. They were lost because of greed and the US govt. aiding it.

 

[Oldstyle]

Here is the problem.

A 1%er with good vision creates Widget company in the US. He/she is confident in his investment, starts up small and his company grows because of his vision and business sense, hiring well educated and hard working US workers. He smartly takes advantage of tax incentives and breaks to help his company. As his business grows he treats his employees well with good benefits, including a 401k and pension as well as health care to attract and retain smart and hard working people. This investment in US workers pays off as the company patents technology they develop and rapidly expands. The employees work hard with good morale and no need for union representation as they are compensated fairly.

The owner of Widget company has done well. He created thousands of jobs for US workers with his good business sense and has made a tidy sum for himself and his family for years to come. All the taxpayers of the US have helped him make this a reality by contributing to infastructure, education, safety, etc. for his company to thrive. He deserves his success and wealth due to his investment and ingenuity, and has created thousands of fair paying jobs for Americans with good benefits. Widget owner decides to sell the company and enjoy the fruits of his labor, as he deserves.

Biggee corp snaps up Widget company as well as Widget's competitor also based in the US. Biggee corp now has all the patents from both companies and controls 80% of the production in the world of these successful products. Biggee corp., based in the US, enjoys even better tax breaks than Widget co. ever did. Biggee corp lays off almost all of it's US employees for cheaper labor in China and Mexico. The CEO and board of Biggee corp. celebrate on their savings with millions in bonuses for themselves. The CEO, board, and biggest investors of Biggee are .01%ers and pay less percentage of tax per dollar than all the middle class workers of Widget co. and the 1%er that started it.

The .01% at Biggee are now enjoying paying less % in taxes than all the workers they laid off and even the 1% creator of the company they bought while enjoying all the big profits of something they had no work at all creating. The technology they bought was developed in the US aided by all US taxpayers and the hard work of the employees at Widget, including scientists and the production floor worker that did extra to help the company because they were compensated fairly for it.

The deck is stacked.

Let me give you another scenario, Wheelie...

A 1%er with a vision starts up a "green energy" company...starts small with nothing more than an idea of what COULD be. He goes to the Federal Government and because he's contributed a whole bunch of money to certain politicians election campaigns the people he's helped to elect reward him with millions of tax payer dollars for his company even though his business plan is completely unrealistic. A year later the company declares bankruptcy putting thousands of workers on unemployment and food stamps as the 1% rides off into the sunset and the auditors scratch their heads as to where all that money went to.

Does THAT screw the taxpayers less than your scenario?

 

[bodecea]

My income trickles down and out.

My income comes from the wealthy.

When I have more, I spend more.

Our corporations are richer than they've ever been...so...why are the working poor getting poorer? That trickle down doesn't seem to be working.

 

[WheelieAddict]

Here is the problem.

A 1%er with good vision creates Widget company in the US. He/she is confident in his investment, starts up small and his company grows because of his vision and business sense, hiring well educated and hard working US workers. He smartly takes advantage of tax incentives and breaks to help his company. As his business grows he treats his employees well with good benefits, including a 401k and pension as well as health care to attract and retain smart and hard working people. This investment in US workers pays off as the company patents technology they develop and rapidly expands. The employees work hard with good morale and no need for union representation as they are compensated fairly.

The owner of Widget company has done well. He created thousands of jobs for US workers with his good business sense and has made a tidy sum for himself and his family for years to come. All the taxpayers of the US have helped him make this a reality by contributing to infastructure, education, safety, etc. for his company to thrive. He deserves his success and wealth due to his investment and ingenuity, and has created thousands of fair paying jobs for Americans with good benefits. Widget owner decides to sell the company and enjoy the fruits of his labor, as he deserves.

Biggee corp snaps up Widget company as well as Widget's competitor also based in the US. Biggee corp now has all the patents from both companies and controls 80% of the production in the world of these successful products. Biggee corp., based in the US, enjoys even better tax breaks than Widget co. ever did. Biggee corp lays off almost all of it's US employees for cheaper labor in China and Mexico. The CEO and board of Biggee corp. celebrate on their savings with millions in bonuses for themselves. The CEO, board, and biggest investors of Biggee are .01%ers and pay less percentage of tax per dollar than all the middle class workers of Widget co. and the 1%er that started it.

The .01% at Biggee are now enjoying paying less % in taxes than all the workers they laid off and even the 1% creator of the company they bought while enjoying all the big profits of something they had no work at all creating. The technology they bought was developed in the US aided by all US taxpayers and the hard work of the employees at Widget, including scientists and the production floor worker that did extra to help the company because they were compensated fairly for it.

The deck is stacked.

Let me give you another scenario, Wheelie...

A 1%er with a vision starts up a "green energy" company...starts small with nothing more than an idea of what COULD be. He goes to the Federal Government and because he's contributed a whole bunch of money to certain politicians election campaigns the people he's helped to elect reward him with millions of tax payer dollars for his company even though his business plan is completely unrealistic. A year later the company declares bankruptcy putting thousands of workers on unemployment and food stamps as the 1% rides off into the sunset and the auditors scratch their heads as to where all that money went to.

Does THAT screw the taxpayers less than your scenario?

No it does not. I am for tax money going towards innovation but not irresponsibly like your scenario. And I agree it does happen as you said. The problem is the tax code and govt. with money for influence. It is bad in your scenario as well as mine.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Producers create jobs. Consumers create incentives for producers to create jobs. It's a circular relationship, not linear. If one side is better off then both sides are better off.

I think the point is that giving tax breaks to the rich doesn't create jobs. What creates jobs is demand and that comes more readily by giving tax breaks to the middle class. It's basic economic theory that the first dollar is much more useful than the last.

This logic hinges on the assumption that demand comes from the consumer, and that producers only create products to fill that demand. The problem is that this isn't how it usually works. Usually some guy or girl comes up with a product or service, then goes out and creates demand for that product or service through, say, advertising.

 

[Synthaholic]

There's the statement that gives the lie to the OP. The workers were hired on before the first sale was ever made. Yes, the success of the enterprise depended on people buying the product. But that came after people were hired.

Another fail from the failed leftist hacks.

It's not the initial hire that's as important as continued employment, expansion and the hiring of more employees. Sorry, but the only FAIL I see is yours. You seem to be more interested in scoring quick points than actually thinking about the logic of the situation.

You've described your post perfectly.

The hiring precedes the sales. Whether the business is successful or not is irrelevant to the decision to hire, which must come first.
Tax rates are one factor among many in the decision to start or expand a business. Obviously there is risk in doing both and if the net result is going to be 80% paid to the gov't then the businessman simply wont start or expand. Regulation is another. If a business is going to expose itself to possible jail time for the principles merely by operating then they probably will think about doing something else. If a regulation makes it arduous and expensive to hire, e.g. Obamacare, then they will probably do something else.
The only people who doubt this are people who have never started a business in their lives more complicated than yard sales on eBay.

Only at the barest of minimums.

Until more employees are needed.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Here's a simple question for some of y'all. Which came first? The mobile (cell) phone or the demand for it?

 

[Wonky Pundit]

Lower taxes are better for everyone except the government.

The government extorts our money wastes it, exploits it, it's our money.

If any other entity made you give them money, took it before you even saw your paycheck, you would call them thieves.

I've been waiting for years for someone to tell us how we can run a nation without money.

Seriously, I would love to know the solution.

Who's "we?" And why do "we" need to "run" the country?

"We" referred to "Americans in general." And if the aforementioned "we" declines to "run" the country, who else will?

Better?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I've been waiting for years for someone to tell us how we can run a nation without money.

Seriously, I would love to know the solution.

Who's "we?" And why do "we" need to "run" the country?

"We" referred to "Americans in general." And if the aforementioned "we" declines to "run" the country, who else will?

Better?

Let the country run itself, and what I mean by that is: Let people voluntarily associate with whomever they like in economic or social situations. We don't need people on high telling us what to do.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

Who's "we?" And why do "we" need to "run" the country?

"We" referred to "Americans in general." And if the aforementioned "we" declines to "run" the country, who else will?

Better?

Let the country run itself, and what I mean by that is: Let people voluntarily associate with whomever they like in economic or social situations. We don't need people on high telling us what to do.

I'd give that about 3 months (generously) before a foreign army takes over.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

"We" referred to "Americans in general." And if the aforementioned "we" declines to "run" the country, who else will?

Better?

Let the country run itself, and what I mean by that is: Let people voluntarily associate with whomever they like in economic or social situations. We don't need people on high telling us what to do.

I'd give that about 3 months (generously) before a foreign army takes over.

Why? Do defense contractors suddenly go out of business?

 

[alan1]

My income trickles down and out.

My income comes from the wealthy.

When I have more, I spend more.

Our corporations are richer than they've ever been...so...why are the working poor getting poorer? That trickle down doesn't seem to be working.

Not all workers are getting poorer.
I'm sure that the cashier and fry cook at McDonalds are struggling, but hey, those have always been crappy jobs.
Wanna buy a car? That car salesmen and dealership is trickledown good. Not to mention the manufacturing jobs that built the car (aren't the politicians always spouting off about "good manufacturing jobs").

 

[Vandalshandle]

Corporations make major decisions based on income tax. They maximize deductions to decrease taxable profit, just like you make a decision to spend $3,000 on a hearing aid this year, instead of next year, if it means that it will put you in a lower tax bracket. It is also true that the higher the production, the lower the production cost per unit, up to a certain point. A lower production cost per unit means that you can offer your product at a more competative price. therefore, hiring more employees usually makes sense, as long as it decreases your taxable income at the same time as your market is not saturated, up to the point where marginal costs per unit start to increase faster than marginal revenue per unit.Therefore, rising income tax rates calls for increased spending on employees and inventory. End of story.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

Let the country run itself, and what I mean by that is: Let people voluntarily associate with whomever they like in economic or social situations. We don't need people on high telling us what to do.

I'd give that about 3 months (generously) before a foreign army takes over.

Why? Do defense contractors suddenly go out of business?

Why should they defend a government-less territory? Especially if foreigners can pay them better?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I'd give that about 3 months (generously) before a foreign army takes over.

Why? Do defense contractors suddenly go out of business?

Why should they defend a government-less territory? Especially if foreigners can pay them better?

Why should they defend a government territory? Presumably because they have no interest in being invaded and taken over anymore than somebody who works at McDonalds.