A 1 percenter tells the truth about "job creators"

[Wyatt earp]

and p.s. dear I always wondered why the fuck I was broke all the time making 75 grand a year and now that I am single and only making around 45 grand I finnaly have some savings.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Lower taxes are better for everyone except the government.

The government extorts our money wastes it, exploits it, it's our money.

If any other entity made you give them money, took it before you even saw your paycheck, you would call them thieves.

I've been waiting for years for someone to tell us how we can run a nation without money.

Seriously, I would love to know the solution.

Who's "we?" And why do "we" need to "run" the country?

 

[Wyatt earp]

do you know anything about human behaviour? or even the shopping channel or credit cards and even the federal reserve or student default loans? were a Nation of debt we buy crap we dont even need or even wanted. to say other wise all your trying to do is justify that cute purse you bought at tiffanys...."Dear", lol.......

 

[Oldstyle]

Producers create jobs. Consumers create incentives for producers to create jobs. It's a circular relationship, not linear. If one side is better off then both sides are better off.

No. Not at all.

Demand creates most jobs.

That is all that ever created most jobs.

Demand is all that ever shall create most jobs.

Innovation creates the rest of the jobs, jobs in new sectors.

Capital is a tool, a facilitator, more like a rake or a pump.

Next.

EDIT: Inevitably halfwits and maybe someone invested in keeping the sheeple down will follow this post with idiotic voodoo horseshit. My command of the English language is not sufficient to express my contempt for these parrots of nonsense. Even more depressing there will be no data cited and anecdotes of innovation will be claimed to "PROVE" something (innovation obviously creates NEW demand, still demand - at least for the rational reader) or worse, some cocksucker will cite Reagan's debt-fueled canned heater economy without understanding OR ADMITTING the asset inflation that sustained it until about 2001 when it started to founder.

The stupidity of this argument never ceases to amaze me. Demand does not create jobs. An anticipation of profit is what creates jobs.

I've pointed this out dozens of times now and I'll point it out once again...there would be INCREDIBLE "demand" for a $10,000 Corvette...so why doesn't GM build one of those and put tens of thousands to work in the process? The answer quite obviously is that they wouldn't make a profit selling the car for that amount and would in fact lose money.

You will never have job creation unless you are willing to lure investors with the promise of profits that are potentially high enough to be worth the risk of capital. Honest to God, it's like you progressives all slept through basic economics or simply chose to take philosophy instead!

 

[Political Junky]

A 1 percenter tells the truth about "job creators"


Nick Hanauer, successful entrepreneur and one percenter, gave testimony on income inequality a few days ago before the U.S. Senate. His testimony in full should be posted in every break room in America:

For 30 years, Americans on the right and left have accepted a particular explanation for the origins of Prosperity in capitalist economies. It is that rich business people like me are “Job Creators. ” That if taxes go up on us or our companies, we will create fewer jobs. And that the lower our taxes are, the more jobs we will create and the more general prosperity we’ ll have.

Many of you in this room are certain that these claims are true. But sometimes the ideas that we know to be true are dead wrong. For thousands of years people were certain, positive, that earth was at the center of the universe. It’s not, and anyone who doesn’t know that would have a very hard time doing astronomy.

My argument today is this: In the same way that it’s a fact that the sun, not earth is the center of the solar system, it’s also a fact that the middle class, not rich business people like me are the center of America’s economy.

I’ll argue here that prosperity in capitalist economies never trickles down from the top. Prosperity is built from the middle out. As an entrepreneur and investor, I have started or helped start, dozens of businesses and initially hired lots of people. But if no one could have afforded to buy what we had to sell, my businesses would all would have failed and all those jobs would have evaporated.

That’s why I am so sure that rich business people don’t create jobs, nor do businesses, large or small. What does lead to more employment is a “circle of life” like feedback loop between customers and businesses. And only consumers can set in motion this virtuous cycle of increasing demand and
hiring. That's why the real job creators in America are middle-class consumers. The more money they have, and the more they can buy, the more people like me have to hire to meet demand.

So when businesspeople like me take credit for creating jobs, it’s a little like squirrels taking credit for creating evolution. In fact, it’s the other way around. Anyone who's ever run a business knows that hiring more people is a capitalist’s course of last resort, something we do if and only if increasing customer demand requires it.

Further, that the goal of every business—profit-- is largely a measure of our relative ability to not create jobs compared to our competitors. In this sense, calling ourselves job creators isn't just inaccurate, it's disingenuous.

That’s why our current policies are so upside down. When you have a tax system in which most of the exemptions and the lowest rates benefit the richest, all in the name of job creation, all that happens is that the rich get richer. Since 1980 the share of income for the richest 1% of Americans has tripled while our effective tax rates have by approximately 50%. If it were true that lower tax rates and more wealth for the wealthy would lead to more job creation, then today we would be drowning in jobs. If it was true that more profit for corporations or lower tax rates for corporations lead to more job creation, then it could not also be true that both corporate profits and unemployment are at 50 year highs.

There can never be enough super rich Americans like me to power a great economy. I earn 1000 times the median wage, but I do not buy 1000 times as much stuff. My family owns three cars, not 3,000. I buy a few pairs of pants and a few shirts a year, just like most American men. Like everyone else, we go out to eat with friends and family only occasionally. I can’t buy enough of anything to make up for the fact that millions of unemployed and underemployed Americans can’t buy any new clothes or cars or enjoy any meals out. Or to make up for the decreasing consumption of the vast majority of American families that are barely squeaking by, buried by spiraling costs and trapped by stagnant or declining wages.This is why the fast increasing inequality in our society is killing our economy. When
most of the money in the economy ends up in just a few hands, it strangles consumption and creates a death spiral of falling demand.

Significant privileges have come to capitalists like me for being perceived as “job creators”at the center of the economic universe, and the language and metaphors we use to defend the fairness of the current social and economic arrangements is telling. For instance, it is a small step from “job creator” to “The Creator.”

When someone like me calls himself a job creator, it sounds like we are describing how the economy works. What we are actually doing is making a claim on status, power and privileges.The extraordinary differential between the 15-20% tax rate on capital gains, dividends, and carried interest for capitalists, and the 39% top marginal rate on work for ordinary Americans is just one of those privileges.

We’ve had it backward for the last 30 years. Rich businesspeople like me don’t create jobs. Rather, jobs are a consequence of an ecosystemic feedback loop animated by middle- class consumers, and when they thrive, businesses grow and hire, and owners profit in a virtuous cycle of increasing returns that benefits everyone.

I’d like to finish with a quick story.About 500 years ago, Copernicus and his pal Galileo came along and proved that the earth wasn’t the center of the solar system. A great achievement, but it didn’t go to well for them with the political leaders of the time. Remember that Galileo invented the telescope, so one could see, with one’s own eyes, the fact that he was right. You may recall, however, that the leaders of the time didn’t much care, because if earth wasn’t the center of the universe, then earth was diminished—and if earth was diminished, so were they. And that fact--their status and power--was the only fact they really cared about. So they told Galileo to stick his telescope where the sun didn’t shine and put him in jail for the rest of his life.

And by so doing, put themselves on the wrong side of history forever. 500 years later, we are arguing about what or whom is at the center of the economic universe. A few rich guys like me, or the American Middle class. But as sure as the sun is the center of our solar system, the middle class is the center of our economy. If we care about building a fast growing economy that provides opportunity for every American, then we must enact policies that build it from the middle out, not the top down.

Tax the wealthy and corporations--as we once did in this country—and invest that money in the middle class as we once did in this country. Those polices won’ t just be great for the middle class, they’ll be great for the poor, for businesses large and small, and the rich.




​

He's right: except for the very wealthy global plutocrats whose fortune is in no way dependent on the health of the American middle class, most of the merely rich would in fact do better under Keynesian policies also.

But then, we also know that it's a human (and extremely American) impulse to worsen one's own circumstances just as long as it means doing better than the guy next to you. That's what's the matter with Wall Street just as much as it's what's the matter with Kansas.


.




People need to wake up and stop being the willing stooges for the obscenely wealthy.

Some of us have been saying this for a very long time. Nice to see this guy come out with it.

 

[Yurt]

A 1 percenter tells the truth about "job creators"


Nick Hanauer, successful entrepreneur and one percenter, gave testimony on income inequality a few days ago before the U.S. Senate. His testimony in full should be posted in every break room in America:

For 30 years, Americans on the right and left have accepted a particular explanation for the origins of Prosperity in capitalist economies. It is that rich business people like me are “Job Creators. ” That if taxes go up on us or our companies, we will create fewer jobs. And that the lower our taxes are, the more jobs we will create and the more general prosperity we’ ll have.

Many of you in this room are certain that these claims are true. But sometimes the ideas that we know to be true are dead wrong. For thousands of years people were certain, positive, that earth was at the center of the universe. It’s not, and anyone who doesn’t know that would have a very hard time doing astronomy.

My argument today is this: In the same way that it’s a fact that the sun, not earth is the center of the solar system, it’s also a fact that the middle class, not rich business people like me are the center of America’s economy.

I’ll argue here that prosperity in capitalist economies never trickles down from the top. Prosperity is built from the middle out. As an entrepreneur and investor, I have started or helped start, dozens of businesses and initially hired lots of people. But if no one could have afforded to buy what we had to sell, my businesses would all would have failed and all those jobs would have evaporated.

That’s why I am so sure that rich business people don’t create jobs, nor do businesses, large or small. What does lead to more employment is a “circle of life” like feedback loop between customers and businesses. And only consumers can set in motion this virtuous cycle of increasing demand and
hiring. That's why the real job creators in America are middle-class consumers. The more money they have, and the more they can buy, the more people like me have to hire to meet demand.

So when businesspeople like me take credit for creating jobs, it’s a little like squirrels taking credit for creating evolution. In fact, it’s the other way around. Anyone who's ever run a business knows that hiring more people is a capitalist’s course of last resort, something we do if and only if increasing customer demand requires it.

Further, that the goal of every business—profit-- is largely a measure of our relative ability to not create jobs compared to our competitors. In this sense, calling ourselves job creators isn't just inaccurate, it's disingenuous.

That’s why our current policies are so upside down. When you have a tax system in which most of the exemptions and the lowest rates benefit the richest, all in the name of job creation, all that happens is that the rich get richer. Since 1980 the share of income for the richest 1% of Americans has tripled while our effective tax rates have by approximately 50%. If it were true that lower tax rates and more wealth for the wealthy would lead to more job creation, then today we would be drowning in jobs. If it was true that more profit for corporations or lower tax rates for corporations lead to more job creation, then it could not also be true that both corporate profits and unemployment are at 50 year highs.

There can never be enough super rich Americans like me to power a great economy. I earn 1000 times the median wage, but I do not buy 1000 times as much stuff. My family owns three cars, not 3,000. I buy a few pairs of pants and a few shirts a year, just like most American men. Like everyone else, we go out to eat with friends and family only occasionally. I can’t buy enough of anything to make up for the fact that millions of unemployed and underemployed Americans can’t buy any new clothes or cars or enjoy any meals out. Or to make up for the decreasing consumption of the vast majority of American families that are barely squeaking by, buried by spiraling costs and trapped by stagnant or declining wages.This is why the fast increasing inequality in our society is killing our economy. When
most of the money in the economy ends up in just a few hands, it strangles consumption and creates a death spiral of falling demand.

Significant privileges have come to capitalists like me for being perceived as “job creators”at the center of the economic universe, and the language and metaphors we use to defend the fairness of the current social and economic arrangements is telling. For instance, it is a small step from “job creator” to “The Creator.”

When someone like me calls himself a job creator, it sounds like we are describing how the economy works. What we are actually doing is making a claim on status, power and privileges.The extraordinary differential between the 15-20% tax rate on capital gains, dividends, and carried interest for capitalists, and the 39% top marginal rate on work for ordinary Americans is just one of those privileges.

We’ve had it backward for the last 30 years. Rich businesspeople like me don’t create jobs. Rather, jobs are a consequence of an ecosystemic feedback loop animated by middle- class consumers, and when they thrive, businesses grow and hire, and owners profit in a virtuous cycle of increasing returns that benefits everyone.

I’d like to finish with a quick story.About 500 years ago, Copernicus and his pal Galileo came along and proved that the earth wasn’t the center of the solar system. A great achievement, but it didn’t go to well for them with the political leaders of the time. Remember that Galileo invented the telescope, so one could see, with one’s own eyes, the fact that he was right. You may recall, however, that the leaders of the time didn’t much care, because if earth wasn’t the center of the universe, then earth was diminished—and if earth was diminished, so were they. And that fact--their status and power--was the only fact they really cared about. So they told Galileo to stick his telescope where the sun didn’t shine and put him in jail for the rest of his life.

And by so doing, put themselves on the wrong side of history forever. 500 years later, we are arguing about what or whom is at the center of the economic universe. A few rich guys like me, or the American Middle class. But as sure as the sun is the center of our solar system, the middle class is the center of our economy. If we care about building a fast growing economy that provides opportunity for every American, then we must enact policies that build it from the middle out, not the top down.

Tax the wealthy and corporations--as we once did in this country—and invest that money in the middle class as we once did in this country. Those polices won’ t just be great for the middle class, they’ll be great for the poor, for businesses large and small, and the rich.




​

He's right: except for the very wealthy global plutocrats whose fortune is in no way dependent on the health of the American middle class, most of the merely rich would in fact do better under Keynesian policies also.

But then, we also know that it's a human (and extremely American) impulse to worsen one's own circumstances just as long as it means doing better than the guy next to you. That's what's the matter with Wall Street just as much as it's what's the matter with Kansas.


.




People need to wake up and stop being the willing stooges for the obscenely wealthy.

Some of us have been saying this for a very long time. Nice to see this guy come out with it.

you do realize he admitted he creates jobs...

 

[Vandalshandle]

I am absolutely amazed that they people on the Right maintain that if we tax corporate profits more, they will stop crreating jobs. This is ludicrus, considering that the cost of labor is an expense, and is therefore deducted from revenues, before arriving at a profit which is then taxed. Increasing the tax rate on corporations increases the incentive for the corporation to hire more people, thereby increasing production, while drecreasing their tax rate. Are these people suffering from some kind of basic economic brain block?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I am absolutely amazed that they people on the Right maintain that if we tax corporate profits more, they will stop crreating jobs. This is ludicrus, considering that the cost of labor is an expense, and is therefore deducted from revenues, before arriving at a profit which is then taxed. Increasing the tax rate on corporations increases the incentive for the corporation to hire more people, thereby increasing production, while drecreasing their tax rate. Are these people suffering from some kind of basic economic brain block?

All money is fungible. Having more of it means that they can hire more people.

 

[Political Junky]

George HW Bush rightly called it Voodoo Economics. He stopped saying that in order to be Reagan's VP. He also stopped saying he was pro-choice.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Producers create jobs. Consumers create incentives for producers to create jobs. It's a circular relationship, not linear. If one side is better off then both sides are better off.

No. Not at all.

Demand creates most jobs.

That is all that ever created most jobs.

Demand is all that ever shall create most jobs.

Innovation creates the rest of the jobs, jobs in new sectors.

Capital is a tool, a facilitator, more like a rake or a pump.

Next.

EDIT: Inevitably halfwits and maybe someone invested in keeping the sheeple down will follow this post with idiotic voodoo horseshit. My command of the English language is not sufficient to express my contempt for these parrots of nonsense. Even more depressing there will be no data cited and anecdotes of innovation will be claimed to "PROVE" something (innovation obviously creates NEW demand, still demand - at least for the rational reader) or worse, some cocksucker will cite Reagan's debt-fueled canned heater economy without understanding OR ADMITTING the asset inflation that sustained it until about 2001 when it started to founder.

The stupidity of this argument never ceases to amaze me. Demand does not create jobs. An anticipation of profit is what creates jobs.

I've pointed this out dozens of times now and I'll point it out once again...there would be INCREDIBLE "demand" for a $10,000 Corvette...so why doesn't GM build one of those and put tens of thousands to work in the process? The answer quite obviously is that they wouldn't make a profit selling the car for that amount and would in fact lose money.

You will never have job creation unless you are willing to lure investors with the promise of profits that are potentially high enough to be worth the risk of capital. Honest to God, it's like you progressives all slept through basic economics or simply chose to take philosophy instead!

No shit dude I never even took economics 101. and I know this crap.. just by working and figuring it out.

 

[whitehall]

Every pension system in the Country is heavily invested in the wealth of large corporations. The bi-polar left even celebrates when the Wall Street DOW spikes and the next day they support the worthless scum who occupy wall street. Fix the freaking tax system before you rob corporations of more of their equity. The IRS million dollar taxpayer funded parties didn't even buy US manufactured goods. They bought their crazy star trek stuff in China.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

Producers create jobs. Consumers create incentives for producers to create jobs. It's a circular relationship, not linear. If one side is better off then both sides are better off.

No. Not at all.

Demand creates most jobs.

That is all that ever created most jobs.

Demand is all that ever shall create most jobs.

Innovation creates the rest of the jobs, jobs in new sectors.

Capital is a tool, a facilitator, more like a rake or a pump.

Next.

EDIT: Inevitably halfwits and maybe someone invested in keeping the sheeple down will follow this post with idiotic voodoo horseshit. My command of the English language is not sufficient to express my contempt for these parrots of nonsense. Even more depressing there will be no data cited and anecdotes of innovation will be claimed to "PROVE" something (innovation obviously creates NEW demand, still demand - at least for the rational reader) or worse, some cocksucker will cite Reagan's debt-fueled canned heater economy without understanding OR ADMITTING the asset inflation that sustained it until about 2001 when it started to founder.

The stupidity of this argument never ceases to amaze me. Demand does not create jobs. An anticipation of profit is what creates jobs.

I've pointed this out dozens of times now and I'll point it out once again...there would be INCREDIBLE "demand" for a $10,000 Corvette...so why doesn't GM build one of those and put tens of thousands to work in the process? The answer quite obviously is that they wouldn't make a profit selling the car for that amount and would in fact lose money.

You will never have job creation unless you are willing to lure investors with the promise of profits that are potentially high enough to be worth the risk of capital. Honest to God, it's like you progressives all slept through basic economics or simply chose to take philosophy instead!

No. All of that is wrong.

Demand creates jobs.

Calling the factual basis for every economic system in history "stupid" means you are almost certainly a brainwashed ReagaNUT. You can't find an argument for supply creating jobs before the mid 1970s.

That would be because that kind of nonsense was laughed at openly. Then came Don Regan and the "new economy" cretins who later crashed LTCM and Laffer, the "quant" community and more parasites than surround a dead carcass in the jungle.

In sum...

You can't show us one CREDIBLE
Supply side thee o' ree
Before the 1970ees...

This ain't the summer of love,
This ain't the clean debate zone
There ain't no new ee-con 'o meee...

And you are a nutball halfwit kookade drinker
Your understanding of eec 'o nomics is like
Junebug Bush's knowledge 'o the art of war.

(chorus)
This ain't the summer of love,
This ain't the clean debate zone
There ain't no new ee con o meeey
And you are a nutball halfwit kookade drinker

​

 

[OriginalShroom]

So another Left Wing Rich man, who feels quilty about his wealth, wants to raise taxes on everyone else who is rich instead of just giving away his own money until he is as poor as he thinks he should be to be happy.

Hypocrite.

 

[Interpol]

My income trickles down and out.

My income comes from the wealthy.

When I have more, I spend more.

That's just your situation though. That is not most people.

The money that most people make is dependent on a healthy middle class.

Walk through any mall. All those jobs are there because of the stuff middle-class people buy, which keeps that mall going.

I'm sorry, but Donald Trump doesn't go to the mall.

 

[alan1]

I’d like to finish with a quick story.About 500 years ago, Copernicus and his pal Galileo came along and proved that the earth wasn’t the center of the solar system. A great achievement, but it didn’t go to well for them with the political leaders of the time. Remember that Galileo invented the telescope, so one could see, with one’s own eyes, the fact that he was right. You may recall, however, that the leaders of the time didn’t much care, because if earth wasn’t the center of the universe, then earth was diminished—and if earth was diminished, so were they. And that fact--their status and power--was the only fact they really cared about. So they told Galileo to stick his telescope where the sun didn’t shine and put him in jail for the rest of his life.

Yeah, I'm supposed to believe some moron that thinks Copernicus and Galileo were pals. Copernicus died in 1543 and Galileo was born in 1564.

 

[whitehall]

Too late to try to bail out the corrupt criminal enterprise known as the IRS or try a side step slickster maneuver to try to get pressure off the administration that authorized IRS abuses. Fix the freaking system before you try to tell us that confiscating more American equity is the right way to go.

 

[alan1]

Nick Hanauer has never voluntarily given the US Government more money than his required taxes.
Should he put up or shut up?

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

People too stupid to accept the reality that demand creates most jobs (innovation is the other important job creator) deserve whatever fucking ReagaNUTics leads to.

You can be sure that if I am alive, I'll be cheering and waving my cane going "I told you so" watching news stories praising some of you "voluntarily" reporting an hour early for work in your pastel colored jumpsuits to have your blood scanned for junk food and drugs before calisthenics and the corporate oath.

And it's going to tickle the hell out of me because that is the only place fully metastized Keynesian economics (supply side, trickle down, voodoo, etc.) can possibly lead.

 

[The Rabbi]

People too stupid to accept the reality that demand creates most jobs (innovation is the other important job creator) deserve whatever fucking ReagaNUTics leads to.

You can be sure that if I am alive, I'll be cheering and waving my cane going "I told you so" watching news stories praising some of you "voluntarily" reporting an hour early for work in your pastel colored jumpsuits to have your blood scanned for junk food and drugs before calisthenics and the corporate oath.

And it's going to tickle the hell out of me because that is the only place fully metastized Keynesian economics (supply side, trickle down, voodoo, etc.) can possibly lead.

You're even less coherent than normal. Is it too few drugs or too much drink?

 

[WheelieAddict]

Here is the problem.

A 1%er with good vision creates Widget company in the US. He/she is confident in his investment, starts up small and his company grows because of his vision and business sense, hiring well educated and hard working US workers. He smartly takes advantage of tax incentives and breaks to help his company. As his business grows he treats his employees well with good benefits, including a 401k and pension as well as health care to attract and retain smart and hard working people. This investment in US workers pays off as the company patents technology they develop and rapidly expands. The employees work hard with good morale and no need for union representation as they are compensated fairly.

The owner of Widget company has done well. He created thousands of jobs for US workers with his good business sense and has made a tidy sum for himself and his family for years to come. All the taxpayers of the US have helped him make this a reality by contributing to infastructure, education, safety, etc. for his company to thrive. He deserves his success and wealth due to his investment and ingenuity, and has created thousands of fair paying jobs for Americans with good benefits. Widget owner decides to sell the company and enjoy the fruits of his labor, as he deserves.

Biggee corp snaps up Widget company as well as Widget's competitor also based in the US. Biggee corp now has all the patents from both companies and controls 80% of the production in the world of these successful products. Biggee corp., based in the US, enjoys even better tax breaks than Widget co. ever did. Biggee corp lays off almost all of it's US employees for cheaper labor in China and Mexico. The CEO and board of Biggee corp. celebrate on their savings with millions in bonuses for themselves. The CEO, board, and biggest investors of Biggee are .01%ers and pay less percentage of tax per dollar than all the middle class workers of Widget co. and the 1%er that started it.

The .01% at Biggee are now enjoying paying less % in taxes than all the workers they laid off and even the 1% creator of the company they bought while enjoying all the big profits of something they had no work at all creating. The technology they bought was developed in the US aided by all US taxpayers and the hard work of the employees at Widget, including scientists and the production floor worker that did extra to help the company because they were compensated fairly for it.

The deck is stacked.