Zone1 A big step in eradicating systemic racism, and 2/3rds of Americans approve

[Hector12]

The war had something to do with the low unemployment rate and recovery.

And it is SHAMEFUL to take 94% of someone’s top dollar while half the country doesn’t pitch in a cent toward the federal government.

Most Americans disagree with you about what is shameful. When the rich were heavily taxed there was a steady decline in national debt as a percentage of gross domestic product. Now Republicans are using the rise in the national debt for which they are responsible in an effort to cut popular domestic spending programs.

When most Americans got more from the government than they paid in taxes the Democrats dominated the United States. The Democrats have let the tax issue get away from them. Tax, spend, and elect was good politics for the Democrats.

 

[Hector12]

Interestingly…there are other ways of increasing diversity in admissions and that is with the designation of descendents of former slaves”.

What is so great about diversity? Diversity, equity, and inclusion are the enemies of merit, qualifications, and excellence. No organization benefits by lowering intelligence requirements for races characterized by low average intelligence, but that is what is necessary to achieve diversity.

 

[Hector12]

The war had something to do with the low unemployment rate and recovery.

Military spending and employment is government spending and employment. I am glad that we entered World War II. Nevertheless, if the money spent on World War II had been spent instead on socialized medicine, infrastructure, public libraries, and free education for those who qualify the benefits to the economy would have been greater.

You said earlier that Democrats like inflation. That is not true. Republicans do like a growing national debt. It gives them the excuse to cut or eliminate domestic spending programs that they do not like, but which are popular with most of the voters.

There should not be a debt crises. If the top tax rate had remained as high as it was before Ronald Reagan there would not be one.

 

[Lisa558]

Most Americans disagree with you about what is shameful. When the rich were heavily taxed there was a steady decline in national debt as a percentage of gross domestic product. Now Republicans are using the rise in the national debt for which they are responsible in an effort to cut popular domestic spending programs.

When most Americans got more from the government than they paid in taxes the Democrats dominated the United States. The Democrats have let the tax issue get away from them. Tax, spend, and elect was good politics for the Democrats.

Please start a new thread if you want to discuss this with others. I started this thread on the elimination of affirmative action, and I’d prefer to keep to that topic. Thank you.

 

[Unkotare]

....Now, the Democrats (most of them) have denigrated the idea of trade school for the “non-college material” ....

The trades have not been "denigrated."

 

[Hector12]

Please start a new thread if you want to discuss this with others. I started this thread on the elimination of affirmative action, and I’d prefer to keep to that topic. Thank you.

The elimination of affirmative action is one of several issues we agree on.

 

[Hector12]

When I went to college 40+ years ago, only about half of high school grads went on to college. When my parents went, only about 15% did. Now, the Democrats (most of them) have denigrated the idea of trade school for the “non-college material” and in doing so created millions of college drop outs with loans they can’t repay.

A person can can nearly always earn more money after graduating from a trade school than after graduating from an obscure college without an academic reputation and getting a degree in the liberal arts of the social sciences.

 

[Lisa558]

The elimination of affirmative action is one of several issues we agree on.

Agree…..so it’s best not to dilute the topic of affirmative action by getting us to debate an unrelated topic. I really want to focus on AA, as the left’s drive to put diversity (meaning more blacks, for the most part) over merit and competence is a big reason the country is in decline. It’s also why we’ve ended up with idiots like the Press Sec and the VP - both completely unqualified.

 

[Lisa558]

A person can can nearly always earn more money after graduating from a trade school than after graduating from an obscure college without an academic reputation and getting a degree in the liberal arts of the social sciences.

Agreed. Even worse, half or more of the mediocre students who go to an obscure college without an academic reputation end uo dropping out - so not only do they have no marketable career training, they also have loans (of which Biden* made us pay off a portion).

The best way to solve the double problems of a poor high school education and unqualified people in college pursuing useless degrees, is to have a “vocational” track for the 3/4 or so who aren’t college material and an “academic” track for the 1/4 going on to college. And a student would have to TEST and score high to get into the college track.

* sorry, couldn’t resist

 

[Hector12]

Agreed. Even worse, half or more of the mediocre students who go to an obscure college without an academic reputation end uo dropping out - so not only do they have no marketable career training, they also have loans (of which Biden* made us pay off a portion).

The best way to solve the double problems of a poor high school education and unqualified people in college pursuing useless degrees, is to have a “vocational” track for the 3/4 or so who aren’t college material and an “academic” track for the 1/4 going on to college. And a student would have to TEST and score high to get into the college track.

* sorry, couldn’t resist

Those who advocate free college education say that other countries provide it. Those other countries require students to pass exams to get into college. College education is only available to a talented minority.

 

[Lisa558]

Those who advocate free college education say that other countries provide it. Those other countries require students to pass exams to get into college. College education is only available to a talented minority.

Absolutely! Even in the days where there was free college in this country such as City College of New York, only the top students got in. They used to call it the Poor Man’s Harvard.

I’d be OK with something like that again: the top 2% in every state, as evidenced by a standardized test, get free college to the State U, but only for marketable majors.

 

[Coyote]

The purpose of going to college should be to learn a profession, but only if one has the native intelligence to learn the profession. Most people lack this and should not be in college.

I disagree. If it is just about that, then in many cases you can learn a profession through a community college or Vo-Tech or apprenticeship program.

College typically represents the first break from home and the beginning of independence. It may be the first time they’ve mingled with peers from different backgrounds, cultures etc. They get exposed to different views that may challenge their own assumptions. I realize these are intangibles, but they are valuable in building leadership, inspiring curiosity, and cooperative engagement.

That doesn’t mean learning a profession isn’t Important or at the top of the list (it is) but it is not the only value.


Also, intelligence is largely irrelevant and difficult to measure accurately. Hard work can get a person far and intelligence is only as good as one’s willingness to apply it in a constructive way.

I think all that plays into why many institutions desire a diverse campus. The more we engage with and work with people from other backgrounds as students, the more our pre-conceptions might be challenged.

 

[Hector12]

I think all that plays into why many institutions desire a diverse campus. The more we engage with and work with people from other backgrounds as students, the more our pre-conceptions might be challenged.

Students may benefit from interactions with students of other races and nationalities, but only when there is no diversity of merit. Nothing is gained by lowering entrance standards for low performance demographics.

 

[Coyote]

Those who advocate free college education say that other countries provide it. Those other countries require students to pass exams to get into college. College education is only available to a talented minority.

And isn’t it wonderful that our system doesn’t restrict education to just a “talented” minority? That the ability to get an education is not confined to the elites who then never have to be concerned with rubbing shoulders with lesser beings? Of course, it is unlikely they will be graduate to serve the communities most in need, thus perpetrating a cycle.

 

[Coyote]

Absolutely! Even in the days where there was free college in this country such as City College of New York, only the top students got in. They used to call it the Poor Man’s Harvard.

I’d be OK with something like that again: the top 2% in every state, as evidenced by a standardized test, get free college to the State U, but only for marketable majors.

GPA’s are recognized as a far better indicator of succcess than test scores. I read somewhere that when a state (might have been Texas) changed it’s admissions policy to automatically admitting the top percentage (maybe 10%) of every highschool they had interesting results. Their campus was more diverse, those students with high GPA’s from schools in areas that were under resourced started out with deficiencies to make up, but with help and tutoring in the first year, they quickly caught up with their peers and excelled. If it had been only the top percent of the state overall, they would likely never have gotten the opportunity. This evens out the inequities cause by income and schools that lack resources.

 

[Coyote]

Those who advocate free college education say that other countries provide it. Those other countries require students to pass exams to get into college. College education is only available to a talented minority.

There is another way to look at free college education, and that is as an extension of mandated public school. We are at a point where a highschool diploma is not enough to get a decent job. I don’t think a free education should be at a 4-yr institution, but rather at a 2-year community college, vo tech, or apprentiship program. That way if a student decides they want to go further, they would have to pay for it, but they would have most of the general requirements met by community college.

 

[Coyote]

Agree…..so it’s best not to dilute the topic of affirmative action by getting us to debate an unrelated topic. I really want to focus on AA, as the left’s drive to put diversity (meaning more blacks, for the most part) over merit and competence is a big reason the country is in decline. It’s also why we’ve ended up with idiots like the Press Sec and the VP - both completely unqualified.

How is it “a big reason why the country is in decline” when first, blacks make up a tiny minority in the most competitive institutions regardless, and of that minority, there is no indication that all or most “don’t have merit”. Two far bigger groups who are admitted the way you describe are legacy student and athletes. Each group takes up more slots than minorities do, from students who might have higher gpa or test scores which is usually the argument made.

 

[Hector12]

And isn’t it wonderful that our system doesn’t restrict education to just a “talented” minority? That the ability to get an education is not confined to the elites who then never have to be concerned with rubbing shoulders with lesser beings? Of course, it is unlikely they will be graduate to serve the communities most in need, thus perpetrating a cycle.

Those who lack the intelligence to benefit from a college education should pay for their own education. They should receive no help from the government. They should not be beneficiaries of affirmative action. Those beneficiaries take positions deserved by whites and East Asians.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Under President Franklin Roosevelt we did tax and spend our way to prosperity.

In 1944 the top tax rate was 94%.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inpetr.pdf

The unemployment rate was 1.2%.

United States Unemployment Rate

Find information and statistics about the overall unemployment rate in the United States from 1920 to 2013.

www.infoplease.com

The per capital gross domestic product (GDP) in 1996 dollars was $12,380. It had never been that high before.

Singularity is Near -SIN Graph - Per-Capita GDP

www.singularity.com

1) you are talking about being in the middle of a world war where the USA was straining every sinew to produce the weapons to arm the entire free world.
2) No one paid 94%, the rich had tax shelters and deductions that lowered their actual tax rate ot the same or less than the middle class paid.

 

[AZrailwhale]

I disagree. If it is just about that, then in many cases you can learn a profession through a community college or Vo-Tech or apprenticeship program.

College typically represents the first break from home and the beginning of independence. It may be the first time they’ve mingled with peers from different backgrounds, cultures etc. They get exposed to different views that may challenge their own assumptions. I realize these are intangibles, but they are valuable in building leadership, inspiring curiosity, and cooperative engagement.

That doesn’t mean learning a profession isn’t Important or at the top of the list (it is) but it is not the only value.


Also, intelligence is largely irrelevant and difficult to measure accurately. Hard work can get a person far and intelligence is only as good as one’s willingness to apply it in a constructive way.

I think all that plays into why many institutions desire a diverse campus. The more we engage with and work with people from other backgrounds as students, the more our pre-conceptions might be challenged.

If that is your objective, have every eighteen-year-old serve a mandatory two years of public service. It could be the military, or VISTA, or some other residential program like the old CCC during the depression. The country would benefit, the participants would benefit, and they'd get the socialization and exposure to people from different backgrounds and economic strata you want an expensive college education to provide. Keep college as a training ground for very difficult endeavors like chemistry, engineering and medicine. Things like accounting and the law can be taught in trade schools alongside plumbing, computer repair and electrical installation and repair..