a new party

[Cecilie1200]

democrats are moving too far left
republicans have gone too far right
i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days
we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

I've largely given up on this idea, considering the stranglehold the two "major" parties have on our election system. Plus, if such a party can't appear NOW, as ridiculous and polarized as things are, one NEVER will.

What I'm hoping now is that one of the parties will wake up and realize that a majority of the country wants moderation and cooperation, and be the first to take advantage of that. The problem is that the wings have most of the energy, and therefore the influence.

I don't know what fixes this.

It is actually more simple than you realize.
The Constitution is not a living document. It is a guideline.
It has resulted in the development of a union
It has allowed the freeing of people in bondage
It has allowed for fair elections
It has allowed for a SCOTUS that makes monumental decisions
It has allowed for the right to vote for women
It has allowed for the right to vote for all Americans
It has allowed for equal rights for all Americans
It has allowed for 3 equal branches of government offering checks and balances.

Sure, we were imperfect as a country back in the 1700's....we were new, we had habits of our heritages.....but it is our constitution that FORCED us to right our wrongs.

So what fixes it? Let the constitution do its job.

It really isnt that difficult. Only to the politicians who are trying to get votes.

And THAT is the problem.

Let the Constitution do what? Mind explaining further?

Not to start an argument. What is considered moderate these days? Like for these topics:
abortion
healthcare
taxes
national defense
foreign policy at large
What is the moderate position on each?

Abortion is the closest to being a binary argument. The rest all exist along a continuum and are not binary.

And I think we've fallen into a trap, thinking that one side has to "win" on any given issue, and one side has to "lose".

How about both sides collaborating, innovating, and creating something NEW, like our Constitution? That way we all have skin in the game.

America used to be able to innovate, back when we were great.

I agree, progress is only made through compromise and collaboration. But, that's not really a stance it's just asking the current parties to talk to each other. I was more curious as to what are the political beliefs of a moderate. Usually when they are asked it's quite clear that they would more than fit into one party or the other.

I think there are a couple of characteristics, depending on the individual moderate. So:

• Some moderates have strong feelings on any given issue, but their opinions as a whole don't fit with one of the tribes. So, a moderate may be passionately pro choice and passionately pro lowering income taxes. Neither tribe, then, is a fit for them.
• Some moderates really do want to find some kind of middle ground on most issues. They believe that there are decent or fair arguments on both ends, and want to at least begin the conversation by finding shared views and going from there.
• Some moderates think that both tribes are narcissistic gasbags and would rather just approach each issue on its own merits, taking some ideas from column A, some from column B, and the rest from new ideas.

My two cents, anyway.

I don't think you have to be a 'moderate' to want to compromise. As a liberal, I'd rather get something rather than nothing.

But since this thread is about a moderate party, what is that exactly? How are a group of people who claim to be in the middle however their various opinions on a range of topics will individually slide from liberal to conservative leaning is supposed to make up a cohesive political party?

That I couldn't tell you, since we've never really had one. I think a glimpse of it came a few years ago when there was talk of a Kasich/Hickenlooper ticket.

But to your point, I think a party that was clearly committed to collaboration and new ideas would draw many people who didn't necessarily agree with its candidates on every issue. So the appeal would be more about general approach than specific positions.

Please do not build John Kasich into what he is not. He is far from moderate.

Lets see.
the constitution allowed for women to vote. It was only because of the constitution that were given the right to vote. I agree with the decision and I respect it.
The consitution allowed for the decision of Roe V Wade. I disagree with the decision, but I respect it.

You see, our constitution was written in a way where it allowed for debate and it allowed for majority decision and implementation of laws and rights.

Seems to be working well.

Albeit, there are those that say it is a living document and we must adjust to it.

To me? That is wrong. It is a document and we must apply it....not Obey it....that would be wrong....apply it. And that is what we do.

And it is working.

Good points but it only works when people stand up for rights. I think that is why many call it a living document.

We have three branches of government. 2 of them are elected and one is appointed by the executive branch...however...with the confirmation of the senate. Those elections are how people can stand up for their rights. But when people are voted in they still must adhere to the constitution as it is a guidance for legislative decisions made by those elected.
Sure, protests are good....and they allow the legislators to hesitate and reconsider....but it is the constitution that keeps them in check and not simply do what they want to do for votes, but instead so what the constitution has deemed best for the overall good.
I know...the left would love to toss the constitution. But without it? We would not have women voting, African Americans voting. abortion legalized. The ACLU pushing rights of Americans.
The constitution ensures we do the right thing and not do something that can be damaging.
A good example is the ACA. Justice Roberts was well aware that the constitution does not allow for forcing anyone to purchase something from the day they are born to the day they die. So he called it a tax.
For right or wrong and regardless of how you feel...it was the constitution that guided that decision. And without the creativity of Justice Roberts, the act was unconstitutional.

Just thin about this....what if a law was passed that said you MUST buy only American made cars....and you MUST buy it at no age older than 18? It is the constitution that prevents such ridiculous laws being imposed on the American People.

You abject to health care as a right? I do not. Millions of others feel as I do.

You cannot have a right to the services of others, no matter how much you may "feelz" that you do, and no matter how many other people also "feelz" it's okay to enslave people for their convenience.

Perhaps you should investigate the meaning of the word "right".

 

[HappyJoy]

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

moderate is supporting the constitution as written,,,

What you really mean is to interpret the Constitution as believed by conservatives. Doesn't sound moderate to me.

Only insofar as what conservatives believe is what's actually written. And how can you say it "doesn't sound moderate to you", when you just got done telling us you have no idea what moderate means? Do you even listen to yourself?

I get it, conservatives think they are moderate. Enjoy your day.

and they believe anyone who isnt lock step loons like them must be leftwing marxists.

Pretty much. By the way, this could have been a good conversation about moderation, extremism and compromise but well, look what they did to your thread.

It's hilarious that you see yourself as moderate

Not hilarious. A pathetic individual who finds the only way to gain credibility is to identify himself/herself as something he/ she isn't.
I see it all the time.
I love those ones who say "I am a staunch conservative but I changed my vote to Biden"

I can see a staunch conservative not want to vote for Trump....but I could never see one voting for Obama. Most, such as George HW Bush would simply sit this one out.

They come and go.

Could it be because they do not think Trump is a Conservative? How many long time Conservatives voted for Biden because they thought he was the best choice?

Zero conservatives voted for Biden

You're not the voice for conservatism. If a conservative tells you who they voted for then that's what they did.

Sssaaaawwwwiiisssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

That isn't what I said about them, LOL.

No conservative ever voted for Biden. Not one

You're factually wrong.

LOL, the leftist moonbat is speaking for conservatives, LOL

No, conservatives are speaking for themselves, not you or me. You're kind of missing the whole point where people get to be and do what they want.

 

[harmonica]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

conservatives are mainstream, the Dems are far left wing extremist who are attempting create a one Party banana republic

right wingers are not mainstream

REAL conservatives might be but right wingers are not

I am a conservative as it applies to how I live my life. I follow an ideology that helps me make decisions for myself, my family , my community and my business.
Does that make me a right winger?
Lets do the check box.

Personal responsibility....check
Learn from my mistakes....check
do not blame others for my decisions.....check
Do not count on others to help me.....check
Do not ask others to help me.....check
Never count on government to help me other than national security which I am not allowed to be a prat of....check
Abortion....dont believe in it as I was supposed to be an aborted baby....and instead I am 35 years married, well educated, a couple of married kids and a business that survivied COVID....BUT....I will always support a SCOTUS decision....check
I am not a fan of welfare but my human emotion allows me to respect it and support it....albeit. no fan at all. I never took it and trust me...at the age of 22 and homeless, I needed it.

SO am I a right winger?

You tell me.

no


i respect all of your positions

and i want pot legal and equal rights for gays, atheists, nonchristians

and i dont want the bible used as law of the land

am i a leftwinger?

......do you have any idea what you are asking for when you want '' police killings''' to stop????!!
do?????
.....a perfect world!!! you do know it's not a perfect world--humans are not perfect
.....if you people are thinking at all, you are thinking with your emotions
gt in the real world
..this is REAL life--not the movies

Can you go into detail on your first sentence?

sure--all explained here:

there is no police brutality problem

..there are 10 MILLION arrests per year--this is not counting traffic stops ..there are 30 million calls for police assistance ..and how many without--a--question--police caused murder/manslaughter deaths ??? let's go high and say 30 [ and 30 is a lot more than there really is ] ..that's 1...

www.usmessageboard.com

So, there are various studies that demonstrate cops treat people differently depending on race. It can be to the extreme when LEOs commit murder to simply pulling over someone because the color of their skin to everything in-between.

.....bullshit-----bullshit-----they don't treat them differently because of their skin color!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
..you people have been brainwashed so much you believe that INSANITY

Really? So when they are followed in the stores or pulled over for nothing that's because ....?

we've been over this before in other threads
1. so, like I said BEFORE, they commit rape, murder, etc at higher rates, but you want us to believe they will obey traffic laws better??????????!!!!!!!!

You don't think black people can obey traffic laws?

INSANE
2. someone else said they same shit --you know what he said???:
his black friend SAID the cops pulled him for nothing --HHAHAHAHAHAHA
THAT was his proofs

How about a peer reviewed study instead?

A large-scale analysis of racial disparities in police stops across the United States - Nature Human Behaviour

Pierson et al. compiled and analysed a dataset detailing nearly 100 million traffic stops conducted across the United States, finding evidence of persistent racial bias against black and Hispanic drivers in police stops and search decisions.

www.nature.com

3. I've already asked in other threads for proof of your insane claim, and no one has provided any thing near credible

Well now you can't say that.

4. example--ever read the Ferguson Report!!!?? the MSM says the cops/etc fined/etc blacks for NOTHING----so I read it ALL.....one black was in violation of an ordnance --so they fined him---the BLACK said the cops fined him for---------------BEING BLACK,--- NOT for violating the ordnance
.....all bullshit ...we are not stupid----and believe all the MSM crap

Neat.

I forgot --the coup de grace:
really this is the basis of your link:
''''We found that black drivers were less likely to be stopped after sunset'''
DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! people drive less after sunset!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a percentage of pull overs, dingbat.

here's the deal:
1. there are jackass cops out there--blacks and whites--that do pull over blacks for no reason---but like police brutality, there is no major, chronic problem of it
..yes, white cops pull over blacks for no reason/etc, but there is no major problem with it --and it's difficult to come to any conclusions
2. I think if a cop so much as verbally abuses someone, he should be punished --hard....in some instances, charged

 

[Papageorgio]

“A more perfect union.” “Affordable education.” Affordable healthcare.” “More infrastructure.” “Fair taxes.”

Lots of warm fuzzy words, yet no Idea what those words mean. They are all words that can mean different things to different people.

I do not have a bit of trouble with any of those goals.

27 times the Constitution has been amended. I call that a living Constitution as times change and people move forward. Nothing remains the same.

List of amendments to the U.S. Constitution | Secondary Keywords: Ratification, Bill of Rights, 27 Amendments

The Constitution of the United States, which entered into force in 1789, is the oldest written national constitution in use. The framers of the U.S. Constitution included a provision whereby the document may be amended, generally (though not solely) by a two-thirds majority of each house of

www.britannica.com

What goals? Nothing is defined. What is fair to one person is not the same to another. What is affordable to one is not affordable to another. What may be perfect to one is not perfect to another, you are just throwing out feel good words with no real meaning. Define what it all means.

 

[anynameyouwish]

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

moderate is supporting the constitution as written,,,

What you really mean is to interpret the Constitution as believed by conservatives. Doesn't sound moderate to me.

Only insofar as what conservatives believe is what's actually written. And how can you say it "doesn't sound moderate to you", when you just got done telling us you have no idea what moderate means? Do you even listen to yourself?

I get it, conservatives think they are moderate. Enjoy your day.

and they believe anyone who isnt lock step loons like them must be leftwing marxists.

Pretty much. By the way, this could have been a good conversation about moderation, extremism and compromise but well, look what they did to your thread.

It's hilarious that you see yourself as moderate

Not hilarious. A pathetic individual who finds the only way to gain credibility is to identify himself/herself as something he/ she isn't.
I see it all the time.
I love those ones who say "I am a staunch conservative but I changed my vote to Biden"

I can see a staunch conservative not want to vote for Trump....but I could never see one voting for Obama. Most, such as George HW Bush would simply sit this one out.

They come and go.

Could it be because they do not think Trump is a Conservative? How many long time Conservatives voted for Biden because they thought he was the best choice?

Zero conservatives voted for Biden

You know better! Do you have anything to add to what needs to be done in the future?

No idea what that's supposed to mean. But not one conservative voted for Biden

not one?

mitt romney
megan mccain
never trumpers
the lincoln project
george conway
military wives against trump
ex military against trump

or are they all marxists?

Well, that figures, you think anyone not a Marxist is a conservative. Well there you go

you said “no conservative voted for biden”

i posted a list of thousands of people who consider themselves conservatives

who voted for biden

if they arent conservatives, what are they?

george conway
mitt romney

not conservatives?

 

[Mac1958]

you said “no conservative voted for bden”
i posted a list of thousands of people who consider themselves conservatives
who voted for biden
if they arent conservatives, what are they?
george conway
mitt romney
not conservatives?

The funniest part is that Trumpsters will admit that Trump himself isn't, yet they want to decide who is and who isn't.

They're just Trumpsters. They'll say anything. Like their hero.

 

[HappyJoy]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

conservatives are mainstream, the Dems are far left wing extremist who are attempting create a one Party banana republic

right wingers are not mainstream

REAL conservatives might be but right wingers are not

I am a conservative as it applies to how I live my life. I follow an ideology that helps me make decisions for myself, my family , my community and my business.
Does that make me a right winger?
Lets do the check box.

Personal responsibility....check
Learn from my mistakes....check
do not blame others for my decisions.....check
Do not count on others to help me.....check
Do not ask others to help me.....check
Never count on government to help me other than national security which I am not allowed to be a prat of....check
Abortion....dont believe in it as I was supposed to be an aborted baby....and instead I am 35 years married, well educated, a couple of married kids and a business that survivied COVID....BUT....I will always support a SCOTUS decision....check
I am not a fan of welfare but my human emotion allows me to respect it and support it....albeit. no fan at all. I never took it and trust me...at the age of 22 and homeless, I needed it.

SO am I a right winger?

You tell me.

no


i respect all of your positions

and i want pot legal and equal rights for gays, atheists, nonchristians

and i dont want the bible used as law of the land

am i a leftwinger?

......do you have any idea what you are asking for when you want '' police killings''' to stop????!!
do?????
.....a perfect world!!! you do know it's not a perfect world--humans are not perfect
.....if you people are thinking at all, you are thinking with your emotions
gt in the real world
..this is REAL life--not the movies

Can you go into detail on your first sentence?

sure--all explained here:

there is no police brutality problem

..there are 10 MILLION arrests per year--this is not counting traffic stops ..there are 30 million calls for police assistance ..and how many without--a--question--police caused murder/manslaughter deaths ??? let's go high and say 30 [ and 30 is a lot more than there really is ] ..that's 1...

www.usmessageboard.com

So, there are various studies that demonstrate cops treat people differently depending on race. It can be to the extreme when LEOs commit murder to simply pulling over someone because the color of their skin to everything in-between.

.....bullshit-----bullshit-----they don't treat them differently because of their skin color!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
..you people have been brainwashed so much you believe that INSANITY

Really? So when they are followed in the stores or pulled over for nothing that's because ....?

we've been over this before in other threads
1. so, like I said BEFORE, they commit rape, murder, etc at higher rates, but you want us to believe they will obey traffic laws better??????????!!!!!!!!

You don't think black people can obey traffic laws?

INSANE
2. someone else said they same shit --you know what he said???:
his black friend SAID the cops pulled him for nothing --HHAHAHAHAHAHA
THAT was his proofs

How about a peer reviewed study instead?

A large-scale analysis of racial disparities in police stops across the United States - Nature Human Behaviour

Pierson et al. compiled and analysed a dataset detailing nearly 100 million traffic stops conducted across the United States, finding evidence of persistent racial bias against black and Hispanic drivers in police stops and search decisions.

www.nature.com

3. I've already asked in other threads for proof of your insane claim, and no one has provided any thing near credible

Well now you can't say that.

4. example--ever read the Ferguson Report!!!?? the MSM says the cops/etc fined/etc blacks for NOTHING----so I read it ALL.....one black was in violation of an ordnance --so they fined him---the BLACK said the cops fined him for---------------BEING BLACK,--- NOT for violating the ordnance
.....all bullshit ...we are not stupid----and believe all the MSM crap

Neat.

I forgot --the coup de grace:
really this is the basis of your link:
''''We found that black drivers were less likely to be stopped after sunset'''
DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! people drive less after sunset!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a percentage of pull overs, dingbat.

here's the deal:
1. there are jackass cops out there--blacks and whites--that do pull over blacks for no reason---but like police brutality, there is no major, chronic problem of it

Clearly a lot of cops are treating people differently based on skin color, that needs to end. No, it's not all cops, nobody said that. However it should be corrected as everyone is entitled to be treated equal under the law.

..yes, white cops pull over blacks for no reason/etc, but there is no major problem with it --and it's difficult to come to any conclusions

Are you on repeat? Just a point here, I'm not calling out the race of the cops, that's on you.

2. I think if a cop so much as verbally abuses someone, he should be punished --hard....in some instances, charged

Great, but when it happens to one race at a statistically higher rate then it needs to be corrected.

 

[progressive hunter]

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

moderate is supporting the constitution as written,,,

What you really mean is to interpret the Constitution as believed by conservatives. Doesn't sound moderate to me.

Only insofar as what conservatives believe is what's actually written. And how can you say it "doesn't sound moderate to you", when you just got done telling us you have no idea what moderate means? Do you even listen to yourself?

I get it, conservatives think they are moderate. Enjoy your day.

and they believe anyone who isnt lock step loons like them must be leftwing marxists.

Pretty much. By the way, this could have been a good conversation about moderation, extremism and compromise but well, look what they did to your thread.

It's hilarious that you see yourself as moderate

Not hilarious. A pathetic individual who finds the only way to gain credibility is to identify himself/herself as something he/ she isn't.
I see it all the time.
I love those ones who say "I am a staunch conservative but I changed my vote to Biden"

I can see a staunch conservative not want to vote for Trump....but I could never see one voting for Obama. Most, such as George HW Bush would simply sit this one out.

They come and go.

Could it be because they do not think Trump is a Conservative? How many long time Conservatives voted for Biden because they thought he was the best choice?

Zero conservatives voted for Biden

You know better! Do you have anything to add to what needs to be done in the future?

No idea what that's supposed to mean. But not one conservative voted for Biden

not one?

mitt romney
megan mccain
never trumpers
the lincoln project
george conway
military wives against trump
ex military against trump

or are they all marxists?

Well, that figures, you think anyone not a Marxist is a conservative. Well there you go

you said “no conservative voted for biden”

i posted a list of thousands of people who consider themselves conservatives

who voted for biden

if they arent conservatives, what are they?

george conway
mitt romney

not conservatives?

what they are is hypocrites,,

 

[anynameyouwish]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

conservatives are mainstream, the Dems are far left wing extremist who are attempting create a one Party banana republic

right wingers are not mainstream

REAL conservatives might be but right wingers are not

I am a conservative as it applies to how I live my life. I follow an ideology that helps me make decisions for myself, my family , my community and my business.
Does that make me a right winger?
Lets do the check box.

Personal responsibility....check
Learn from my mistakes....check
do not blame others for my decisions.....check
Do not count on others to help me.....check
Do not ask others to help me.....check
Never count on government to help me other than national security which I am not allowed to be a prat of....check
Abortion....dont believe in it as I was supposed to be an aborted baby....and instead I am 35 years married, well educated, a couple of married kids and a business that survivied COVID....BUT....I will always support a SCOTUS decision....check
I am not a fan of welfare but my human emotion allows me to respect it and support it....albeit. no fan at all. I never took it and trust me...at the age of 22 and homeless, I needed it.

SO am I a right winger?

You tell me.

no


i respect all of your positions

and i want pot legal and equal rights for gays, atheists, nonchristians

and i dont want the bible used as law of the land

am i a leftwinger?

......do you have any idea what you are asking for when you want '' police killings''' to stop????!!
do?????
.....a perfect world!!! you do know it's not a perfect world--humans are not perfect
.....if you people are thinking at all, you are thinking with your emotions
gt in the real world
..this is REAL life--not the movies

Can you go into detail on your first sentence?

sure--all explained here:

there is no police brutality problem

..there are 10 MILLION arrests per year--this is not counting traffic stops ..there are 30 million calls for police assistance ..and how many without--a--question--police caused murder/manslaughter deaths ??? let's go high and say 30 [ and 30 is a lot more than there really is ] ..that's 1...

www.usmessageboard.com

So, there are various studies that demonstrate cops treat people differently depending on race. It can be to the extreme when LEOs commit murder to simply pulling over someone because the color of their skin to everything in-between.

.....bullshit-----bullshit-----they don't treat them differently because of their skin color!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
..you people have been brainwashed so much you believe that INSANITY

Really? So when they are followed in the stores or pulled over for nothing that's because ....?

we've been over this before in other threads
1. so, like I said BEFORE, they commit rape, murder, etc at higher rates, but you want us to believe they will obey traffic laws better??????????!!!!!!!!

You don't think black people can obey traffic laws?

INSANE
2. someone else said they same shit --you know what he said???:
his black friend SAID the cops pulled him for nothing --HHAHAHAHAHAHA
THAT was his proofs

How about a peer reviewed study instead?

A large-scale analysis of racial disparities in police stops across the United States - Nature Human Behaviour

Pierson et al. compiled and analysed a dataset detailing nearly 100 million traffic stops conducted across the United States, finding evidence of persistent racial bias against black and Hispanic drivers in police stops and search decisions.

www.nature.com

3. I've already asked in other threads for proof of your insane claim, and no one has provided any thing near credible

Well now you can't say that.

4. example--ever read the Ferguson Report!!!?? the MSM says the cops/etc fined/etc blacks for NOTHING----so I read it ALL.....one black was in violation of an ordnance --so they fined him---the BLACK said the cops fined him for---------------BEING BLACK,--- NOT for violating the ordnance
.....all bullshit ...we are not stupid----and believe all the MSM crap

Neat.

I forgot --the coup de grace:
really this is the basis of your link:
''''We found that black drivers were less likely to be stopped after sunset'''
DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! people drive less after sunset!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a percentage of pull overs, dingbat.

here's the deal:
1. there are jackass cops out there--blacks and whites--that do pull over blacks for no reason---but like police brutality, there is no major, chronic problem of it
..yes, white cops pull over blacks for no reason/etc, but there is no major problem with it --and it's difficult to come to any conclusions
2. I think if a cop so much as verbally abuses someone, he should be punished --hard....in some instances, charged

so you hate police!

 

[Cecilie1200]

democrats are moving too far left
republicans have gone too far right
i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days
we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

I've largely given up on this idea, considering the stranglehold the two "major" parties have on our election system. Plus, if such a party can't appear NOW, as ridiculous and polarized as things are, one NEVER will.

What I'm hoping now is that one of the parties will wake up and realize that a majority of the country wants moderation and cooperation, and be the first to take advantage of that. The problem is that the wings have most of the energy, and therefore the influence.

I don't know what fixes this.

It is actually more simple than you realize.
The Constitution is not a living document. It is a guideline.
It has resulted in the development of a union
It has allowed the freeing of people in bondage
It has allowed for fair elections
It has allowed for a SCOTUS that makes monumental decisions
It has allowed for the right to vote for women
It has allowed for the right to vote for all Americans
It has allowed for equal rights for all Americans
It has allowed for 3 equal branches of government offering checks and balances.

Sure, we were imperfect as a country back in the 1700's....we were new, we had habits of our heritages.....but it is our constitution that FORCED us to right our wrongs.

So what fixes it? Let the constitution do its job.

It really isnt that difficult. Only to the politicians who are trying to get votes.

And THAT is the problem.

Let the Constitution do what? Mind explaining further?

Not to start an argument. What is considered moderate these days? Like for these topics:
abortion
healthcare
taxes
national defense
foreign policy at large
What is the moderate position on each?

Abortion is the closest to being a binary argument. The rest all exist along a continuum and are not binary.

And I think we've fallen into a trap, thinking that one side has to "win" on any given issue, and one side has to "lose".

How about both sides collaborating, innovating, and creating something NEW, like our Constitution? That way we all have skin in the game.

America used to be able to innovate, back when we were great.

I agree, progress is only made through compromise and collaboration. But, that's not really a stance it's just asking the current parties to talk to each other. I was more curious as to what are the political beliefs of a moderate. Usually when they are asked it's quite clear that they would more than fit into one party or the other.

I think there are a couple of characteristics, depending on the individual moderate. So:

• Some moderates have strong feelings on any given issue, but their opinions as a whole don't fit with one of the tribes. So, a moderate may be passionately pro choice and passionately pro lowering income taxes. Neither tribe, then, is a fit for them.
• Some moderates really do want to find some kind of middle ground on most issues. They believe that there are decent or fair arguments on both ends, and want to at least begin the conversation by finding shared views and going from there.
• Some moderates think that both tribes are narcissistic gasbags and would rather just approach each issue on its own merits, taking some ideas from column A, some from column B, and the rest from new ideas.

My two cents, anyway.

I don't think you have to be a 'moderate' to want to compromise. As a liberal, I'd rather get something rather than nothing.

But since this thread is about a moderate party, what is that exactly? How are a group of people who claim to be in the middle however their various opinions on a range of topics will individually slide from liberal to conservative leaning is supposed to make up a cohesive political party?

That I couldn't tell you, since we've never really had one. I think a glimpse of it came a few years ago when there was talk of a Kasich/Hickenlooper ticket.

But to your point, I think a party that was clearly committed to collaboration and new ideas would draw many people who didn't necessarily agree with its candidates on every issue. So the appeal would be more about general approach than specific positions.

Please do not build John Kasich into what he is not. He is far from moderate.

Lets see.
the constitution allowed for women to vote. It was only because of the constitution that were given the right to vote. I agree with the decision and I respect it.
The consitution allowed for the decision of Roe V Wade. I disagree with the decision, but I respect it.

You see, our constitution was written in a way where it allowed for debate and it allowed for majority decision and implementation of laws and rights.

Seems to be working well.

Albeit, there are those that say it is a living document and we must adjust to it.

To me? That is wrong. It is a document and we must apply it....not Obey it....that would be wrong....apply it. And that is what we do.

And it is working.

Good points but it only works when people stand up for rights. I think that is why many call it a living document.

We have three branches of government. 2 of them are elected and one is appointed by the executive branch...however...with the confirmation of the senate. Those elections are how people can stand up for their rights. But when people are voted in they still must adhere to the constitution as it is a guidance for legislative decisions made by those elected.
Sure, protests are good....and they allow the legislators to hesitate and reconsider....but it is the constitution that keeps them in check and not simply do what they want to do for votes, but instead so what the constitution has deemed best for the overall good.
I know...the left would love to toss the constitution. But without it? We would not have women voting, African Americans voting. abortion legalized. The ACLU pushing rights of Americans.
The constitution ensures we do the right thing and not do something that can be damaging.
A good example is the ACA. Justice Roberts was well aware that the constitution does not allow for forcing anyone to purchase something from the day they are born to the day they die. So he called it a tax.
For right or wrong and regardless of how you feel...it was the constitution that guided that decision. And without the creativity of Justice Roberts, the act was unconstitutional.

Just thin about this....what if a law was passed that said you MUST buy only American made cars....and you MUST buy it at no age older than 18? It is the constitution that prevents such ridiculous laws being imposed on the American People.

You abject to health care as a right? I do not. Millions of others feel as I do.

healthcare is a product/service supplied by other people not a right,, unless of course you support slavery,,

Health care for all is slavery? I disagree.

Of course you do. You want it, and therefore it can't possibly be anything bad for you to have what you want. No thought about how it's actually accomplished is necessary. All that matters is "I want it, therefore I have a right to have it, and you're a bad person if you don't want to just give it to me."

It is amazing how much people on the left are starting to look and sound like Marie Antoinette, minus the tall wig. I didn't think anyone could be this blindly selfish, spoiled, and entitled without being an aristocrat or a cranky 5-year-old.

For the record, Marie A, those people who take care of you when you're sick? They don't do it because you're just such a spiffy person and they're deeply concerned about you personally. They do it because it's their JOB. They do it to earn money to pay their bills and support their families. They spent varying amounts of time and large sums of money to learn to do it, so that they would be able to provide for their families well, rather than just subsisting. If you get your way on making healthcare a "right", do you think those people are going to be earning the same amount of money that they are now? The amount which motivated them to learn to provide the healthcare you want to lay ownership claim to simply because you want it? You're basically going to tell them that they HAVE to become civil servants - which, if they had wanted to do so, they would have - or they have to find another line of work. It may be too subtle for an immature leftist like you, but that's slavery. That's telling them that their labor is not theirs to sell according to their own valuation, but someone else's to demand at the price they set.

You see me over here? Hi. I'm an American taxpayer, one of millions. I work my ass off every day for every dollar I get. I spent time and money learning to do what I do, and years of my life gaining enough experience in it to be paid reasonably well. I do it so that I can spend those dollars on my husband and my kids. Every time selfish, pie-in-the-sky dimwits like you decide that "this is good, therefore everyone has a right to it" about something, I have fewer dollars that I have earned to spend on the people who actually matter to me, because those dollars have to go to you, who doesn't matter to me in the slightest. This is also probably too subtle for an immature leftist like you, but that's also slavery. It's one thing to take my money for things I actually use, like roads and police and courts. Your personal health is NOT a public good. It benefits me not at all for you to exist, and harms me not at all if you don't.

So yeah, your belief that you have a "right" to have others provide you with something is basically you believing that other people are tools for your convenience. Which is slavery.

And you should be embarrassed that you had to have this explained to you.

 

[HappyJoy]

^holy shit.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

moderate is supporting the constitution as written,,,

What you really mean is to interpret the Constitution as believed by conservatives. Doesn't sound moderate to me.

Only insofar as what conservatives believe is what's actually written. And how can you say it "doesn't sound moderate to you", when you just got done telling us you have no idea what moderate means? Do you even listen to yourself?

I get it, conservatives think they are moderate. Enjoy your day.

I get it, you don't like any conversation that deviates from the script you have in your head. Every post from you is, "What you really mean is THIS, because that's the line I want to argue against!"

Enjoy your stupid.

 

[Cecilie1200]

democrats are moving too far left
republicans have gone too far right
i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days
we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

I've largely given up on this idea, considering the stranglehold the two "major" parties have on our election system. Plus, if such a party can't appear NOW, as ridiculous and polarized as things are, one NEVER will.

What I'm hoping now is that one of the parties will wake up and realize that a majority of the country wants moderation and cooperation, and be the first to take advantage of that. The problem is that the wings have most of the energy, and therefore the influence.

I don't know what fixes this.

It is actually more simple than you realize.
The Constitution is not a living document. It is a guideline.
It has resulted in the development of a union
It has allowed the freeing of people in bondage
It has allowed for fair elections
It has allowed for a SCOTUS that makes monumental decisions
It has allowed for the right to vote for women
It has allowed for the right to vote for all Americans
It has allowed for equal rights for all Americans
It has allowed for 3 equal branches of government offering checks and balances.

Sure, we were imperfect as a country back in the 1700's....we were new, we had habits of our heritages.....but it is our constitution that FORCED us to right our wrongs.

So what fixes it? Let the constitution do its job.

It really isnt that difficult. Only to the politicians who are trying to get votes.

And THAT is the problem.

Let the Constitution do what? Mind explaining further?

Not to start an argument. What is considered moderate these days? Like for these topics:
abortion
healthcare
taxes
national defense
foreign policy at large
What is the moderate position on each?

Abortion is the closest to being a binary argument. The rest all exist along a continuum and are not binary.

And I think we've fallen into a trap, thinking that one side has to "win" on any given issue, and one side has to "lose".

How about both sides collaborating, innovating, and creating something NEW, like our Constitution? That way we all have skin in the game.

America used to be able to innovate, back when we were great.

I agree, progress is only made through compromise and collaboration. But, that's not really a stance it's just asking the current parties to talk to each other. I was more curious as to what are the political beliefs of a moderate. Usually when they are asked it's quite clear that they would more than fit into one party or the other.

I think there are a couple of characteristics, depending on the individual moderate. So:

• Some moderates have strong feelings on any given issue, but their opinions as a whole don't fit with one of the tribes. So, a moderate may be passionately pro choice and passionately pro lowering income taxes. Neither tribe, then, is a fit for them.
• Some moderates really do want to find some kind of middle ground on most issues. They believe that there are decent or fair arguments on both ends, and want to at least begin the conversation by finding shared views and going from there.
• Some moderates think that both tribes are narcissistic gasbags and would rather just approach each issue on its own merits, taking some ideas from column A, some from column B, and the rest from new ideas.

My two cents, anyway.

I don't think you have to be a 'moderate' to want to compromise. As a liberal, I'd rather get something rather than nothing.

But since this thread is about a moderate party, what is that exactly? How are a group of people who claim to be in the middle however their various opinions on a range of topics will individually slide from liberal to conservative leaning is supposed to make up a cohesive political party?

That I couldn't tell you, since we've never really had one. I think a glimpse of it came a few years ago when there was talk of a Kasich/Hickenlooper ticket.

But to your point, I think a party that was clearly committed to collaboration and new ideas would draw many people who didn't necessarily agree with its candidates on every issue. So the appeal would be more about general approach than specific positions.

Please do not build John Kasich into what he is not. He is far from moderate.

Lets see.
the constitution allowed for women to vote. It was only because of the constitution that were given the right to vote. I agree with the decision and I respect it.
The consitution allowed for the decision of Roe V Wade. I disagree with the decision, but I respect it.

You see, our constitution was written in a way where it allowed for debate and it allowed for majority decision and implementation of laws and rights.

Seems to be working well.

Albeit, there are those that say it is a living document and we must adjust to it.

To me? That is wrong. It is a document and we must apply it....not Obey it....that would be wrong....apply it. And that is what we do.

And it is working.

Good points but it only works when people stand up for rights. I think that is why many call it a living document.

We have three branches of government. 2 of them are elected and one is appointed by the executive branch...however...with the confirmation of the senate. Those elections are how people can stand up for their rights. But when people are voted in they still must adhere to the constitution as it is a guidance for legislative decisions made by those elected.
Sure, protests are good....and they allow the legislators to hesitate and reconsider....but it is the constitution that keeps them in check and not simply do what they want to do for votes, but instead so what the constitution has deemed best for the overall good.
I know...the left would love to toss the constitution. But without it? We would not have women voting, African Americans voting. abortion legalized. The ACLU pushing rights of Americans.
The constitution ensures we do the right thing and not do something that can be damaging.
A good example is the ACA. Justice Roberts was well aware that the constitution does not allow for forcing anyone to purchase something from the day they are born to the day they die. So he called it a tax.
For right or wrong and regardless of how you feel...it was the constitution that guided that decision. And without the creativity of Justice Roberts, the act was unconstitutional.

Just thin about this....what if a law was passed that said you MUST buy only American made cars....and you MUST buy it at no age older than 18? It is the constitution that prevents such ridiculous laws being imposed on the American People.

You abject to health care as a right? I do not. Millions of others feel as I do.

healthcare is a product/service supplied by other people not a right,, unless of course you support slavery,,

Health care for all is slavery? I disagree.

I don't agree it is slavery. But forcing someone to buy a product the day they are born until the day they die is unprecedented and inappropriate. You know, I had a choice to buy flood insurance and I chose not to. It cost me thousand of dollars when Sandy hit. My choice, my consequences.
How would you feel if a law was passed that said all American MUST, by law, allow at least one homeless person to live in your home under penalty of law?
How about this....every American, regardless of financial stability MUST under penalty of law, donate a minimum of 1500 a year to charity?
Was it slavery? No. Was it a mandate many could not afford? Yes.
Keep an open mind.

The slavery we were talking about wasn't people being forced to buy health insurance.

 

[GHook20]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

There aren’t any real Dinos. That is why you never hear the term used (first time I have heard it). RINOs are a dying breed unless it comes to spending, every Republican is a RINO on spending. There as a push to the right on immigration, but you will see more Republicans moving toward appeasing illegal immigration and against the wall to try to win Latinos.

 

[HappyJoy]

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

moderate is supporting the constitution as written,,,

What you really mean is to interpret the Constitution as believed by conservatives. Doesn't sound moderate to me.

Only insofar as what conservatives believe is what's actually written. And how can you say it "doesn't sound moderate to you", when you just got done telling us you have no idea what moderate means? Do you even listen to yourself?

I get it, conservatives think they are moderate. Enjoy your day.

I get it, you don't like any conversation that deviates from the script you have in your head. Every post from you is, "What you really mean is THIS, because that's the line I want to argue against!"

Enjoy your stupid.

I think what you're really trying to say is...well, I don't really care, you didn't really say anything at all, did you?

 

[Cecilie1200]

republicans have gone too far right

How so? Which specific policies do you consider "too far right"?

Note how anynameyouwish Mac1958 HappyJoy ignore your simple question...why you ask?
Because they can’t give you an honest rational answer.
They hate that conservatives remain committed to preserving and protecting American history, traditions, values and laws.
What they really mean is;
“why do Conservatives resist and denounce our push to CHANGE America into the anything goes, no boundaries, commie-lite shithole we seek, why don’t they want all of America to become Mexifornia / Loon York?”

Ripping apart kids from their families, locking them up for months only to eventually permanently separate them from their parent. I don't think that is a moderate view point.

"Accept this highly emotional and inaccurate slogan as reality!"

Continuing your streak of "talking to the voices in my head" posts, I see.

 

[HappyJoy]

republicans have gone too far right

How so? Which specific policies do you consider "too far right"?

Note how anynameyouwish Mac1958 HappyJoy ignore your simple question...why you ask?
Because they can’t give you an honest rational answer.
They hate that conservatives remain committed to preserving and protecting American history, traditions, values and laws.
What they really mean is;
“why do Conservatives resist and denounce our push to CHANGE America into the anything goes, no boundaries, commie-lite shithole we seek, why don’t they want all of America to become Mexifornia / Loon York?”

Ripping apart kids from their families, locking them up for months only to eventually permanently separate them from their parent. I don't think that is a moderate view point.

"Accept this highly emotional and inaccurate slogan as reality!"

Continuing your streak of "talking to the voices in my head" posts, I see.

I can't hear the voices in your head. Why are you quoting yourself?

 

[Cecilie1200]

republicans have gone too far right

How so? Which specific policies do you consider "too far right"?

Pulling us out of the Paris Climate agreement
Kids in cages
stuff like that.

So Obama is to far right?

Obama didn't rip kids from their families and lock them up for months only to lose them. The Obama policy was to temporarily hold kids who showed up at the border without family and then hand them over to HHS.

Well, that's certainly what you've been told to think this week, anyway.

 

[HappyJoy]

republicans have gone too far right

How so? Which specific policies do you consider "too far right"?

Pulling us out of the Paris Climate agreement
Kids in cages
stuff like that.

So Obama is to far right?

Obama didn't rip kids from their families and lock them up for months only to lose them. The Obama policy was to temporarily hold kids who showed up at the border without family and then hand them over to HHS.

Well, that's certainly what you've been told to think this week, anyway.

You're welcome to refute it at any time.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

moderate is supporting the constitution as written,,,

What you really mean is to interpret the Constitution as believed by conservatives. Doesn't sound moderate to me.

Only insofar as what conservatives believe is what's actually written. And how can you say it "doesn't sound moderate to you", when you just got done telling us you have no idea what moderate means? Do you even listen to yourself?

I get it, conservatives think they are moderate. Enjoy your day.

I get it, you don't like any conversation that deviates from the script you have in your head. Every post from you is, "What you really mean is THIS, because that's the line I want to argue against!"

Enjoy your stupid.

I think what you're really trying to say is...well, I don't really care, you didn't really say anything at all, did you?

Oh, I'm sorry, did I not make the permission to run away like the dickless weasel you are clear enough?