Angry Americans (democrats only)

[Tommy Tainant]

Despite the Biden victory there are still a huge number of Americans who voted for Trump. They might win next time. If they dont win they will come close.

They cant all be conspiracy theory covidiot loons. Some will be educated and some will be nice people.
How do you explain their support for a candidate who essentially had a negative message for the US ?

I dont think that trump had any political beliefs at all. He believed in trump. Next time the right may come back with somebody who believes all the crap.

Biden seems to be an underwhelming choice of candidate and maybe that was the plan. Pick the least offensive guy out there. I cant see him as any more than a stop gap to rid the country of trump.

So how does the left stop a Trump MK 2 happening in a couple of years? How do you protect the progress made in your society over the years ?

I have stated Democrats only but I am happy to discuss this with right wingers who can think beyond the usual sloganeering.

 

[Decus]

Despite the Biden victory there are still a huge number of Americans who voted for Trump. They might win next time. If they dont win they will come close.

They cant all be conspiracy theory covidiot loons. Some will be educated and some will be nice people.
How do you explain their support for a candidate who essentially had a negative message for the US ?

I dont think that trump had any political beliefs at all. He believed in trump. Next time the right may come back with somebody who believes all the crap.

Biden seems to be an underwhelming choice of candidate and maybe that was the plan. Pick the least offensive guy out there. I cant see him as any more than a stop gap to rid the country of trump.

So how does the left stop a Trump MK 2 happening in a couple of years? How do you protect the progress made in your society over the years ?

I have stated Democrats only but I am happy to discuss this with right wingers who can think beyond the usual sloganeering.

What was Trump's negative message???

.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Despite the Biden victory there are still a huge number of Americans who voted for Trump. They might win next time. If they dont win they will come close.

They cant all be conspiracy theory covidiot loons. Some will be educated and some will be nice people.
How do you explain their support for a candidate who essentially had a negative message for the US ?

I dont think that trump had any political beliefs at all. He believed in trump. Next time the right may come back with somebody who believes all the crap.

Biden seems to be an underwhelming choice of candidate and maybe that was the plan. Pick the least offensive guy out there. I cant see him as any more than a stop gap to rid the country of trump.

So how does the left stop a Trump MK 2 happening in a couple of years? How do you protect the progress made in your society over the years ?

I have stated Democrats only but I am happy to discuss this with right wingers who can think beyond the usual sloganeering.

What was Trump's negative message???

.

"Vote for me or all these awful things will happen."

I didnt really pick up on any policy initiatives.

 

[Decus]

Despite the Biden victory there are still a huge number of Americans who voted for Trump. They might win next time. If they dont win they will come close.

They cant all be conspiracy theory covidiot loons. Some will be educated and some will be nice people.
How do you explain their support for a candidate who essentially had a negative message for the US ?

I dont think that trump had any political beliefs at all. He believed in trump. Next time the right may come back with somebody who believes all the crap.

Biden seems to be an underwhelming choice of candidate and maybe that was the plan. Pick the least offensive guy out there. I cant see him as any more than a stop gap to rid the country of trump.

So how does the left stop a Trump MK 2 happening in a couple of years? How do you protect the progress made in your society over the years ?

I have stated Democrats only but I am happy to discuss this with right wingers who can think beyond the usual sloganeering.

What was Trump's negative message???

.

"Vote for me or all these awful things will happen."

I didnt really pick up on any policy initiatives.

I suggest we come back to this discussion in a year's time to see if the more radical left wing ideas are put into practice.

I didn't care for Trump's personality but I appreciated his policies and will happily vote for a candidate that will:

1. push China to engage in fair trade
2. reform our immigration policy
3. seek to return manufacturing jobs to the US
4. continue to strive that we are energy independent

Trump is not important - the types of policies I listed are.

.

 

[JoeB131]

Despite the Biden victory there are still a huge number of Americans who voted for Trump. They might win next time. If they dont win they will come close.

They cant all be conspiracy theory covidiot loons. Some will be educated and some will be nice people.
How do you explain their support for a candidate who essentially had a negative message for the US ?

Actually, I can explain it very well. I see it in my own family.

For the last 50 years, the White Working Class has been in decline. Part of this has been because of the decline of unions. Part of this is that the situation after WWII was truly an artificial one, and the White Working Class was benefiting from the rest of the world's industry being in ruins.

The Republican Party has been responsible for a lot of this, taking the side of the Investor Class over the Working Class. (And, no, you aren't "investor class" if you have a 401K). So, yes, the white working class struggles, often working two jobs to make ends meet, or meet the material expectations.

The Republican Party has been very good at distracting the WWC by blaming foreigners, minorities, government, and just about everyone who isn't the investor class. Blaming is easy. Addressing your shortcomings is hard. So it's the easy path.

 

[JoeB131]

I didn't care for Trump's personality but I appreciated his policies and will happily vote for a candidate that will:

1. push China to engage in fair trade
2. reform our immigration policy
3. seek to return manufacturing jobs to the US
4. continue to strive that we are energy independent

Trump is not important - the types of policies I listed are.

Okay, let's look at that.

1) China isn't really the problem, our own behavior is. We go into walmart, and we buy the cheapest thing on the shelf. Right now, that happens to be something made in China. But even China is becoming too expensive, so a lot of those factories are moving to Vietnam, the Philippines, India or wherever else people are willing to work in a dirty factory with unsafe condition.

2) Trump hasn't "reformed" our immigration policy. Our laws haven't changed, he's been more inclined to deny H1B visas.... which companies really need.

3) See point 1, but I'll add on to that. Are you willing to work for as little as a Chinese does to get that manufacturing job? Are you willing to have a factory in your neighborhood that pollutes the water and air?

4) Except we aren't really energy independent. It's still cheaper to buy from the Arabs than it is to frack. Fracking only is profitable when OPEC raises the price of oil high enough to make it feasible. Right now, the world is in an oil glut, partially due to Covid. Trump had to commit to buying oil for the Strategic reserve to keep the Fracking Industry fluid.

 

[Decus]

I didn't care for Trump's personality but I appreciated his policies and will happily vote for a candidate that will:

1. push China to engage in fair trade
2. reform our immigration policy
3. seek to return manufacturing jobs to the US
4. continue to strive that we are energy independent

Trump is not important - the types of policies I listed are.

Okay, let's look at that.

1) China isn't really the problem, our own behavior is. We go into walmart, and we buy the cheapest thing on the shelf. Right now, that happens to be something made in China. But even China is becoming too expensive, so a lot of those factories are moving to Vietnam, the Philippines, India or wherever else people are willing to work in a dirty factory with unsafe condition.

2) Trump hasn't "reformed" our immigration policy. Our laws haven't changed, he's been more inclined to deny H1B visas.... which companies really need.

3) See point 1, but I'll add on to that. Are you willing to work for as little as a Chinese does to get that manufacturing job? Are you willing to have a factory in your neighborhood that pollutes the water and air?

4) Except we aren't really energy independent. It's still cheaper to buy from the Arabs than it is to frack. Fracking only is profitable when OPEC raises the price of oil high enough to make it feasible. Right now, the world is in an oil glut, partially due to Covid. Trump had to commit to buying oil for the Strategic reserve to keep the Fracking Industry fluid.

1) China has engaged in intellectual property theft, made it extremely difficult for foreign products to compete on their market and offer their workers no protection from unsafe or unfair labor practices. When you cut corners everything is cheaper to produce. Why subsidize China's bad behavior?

2) We need immigration reform. Millions of people worldwide have submitted applications to come to the US and wait patiently in their respective countries for an answer. Illegal entry into the US should not be rewarded.

3) Fair trade requires everyone to improve worker conditions. We need to push up not down.

4) I'll simply point out that prior to fracking oil prices were very high. I am grateful for fracking and hope we maintain this direction.

.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Despite the Biden victory there are still a huge number of Americans who voted for Trump. They might win next time. If they dont win they will come close.

They cant all be conspiracy theory covidiot loons. Some will be educated and some will be nice people.
How do you explain their support for a candidate who essentially had a negative message for the US ?

I dont think that trump had any political beliefs at all. He believed in trump. Next time the right may come back with somebody who believes all the crap.

Biden seems to be an underwhelming choice of candidate and maybe that was the plan. Pick the least offensive guy out there. I cant see him as any more than a stop gap to rid the country of trump.

So how does the left stop a Trump MK 2 happening in a couple of years? How do you protect the progress made in your society over the years ?

I have stated Democrats only but I am happy to discuss this with right wingers who can think beyond the usual sloganeering.

What was Trump's negative message???

.

Was that minorities could succeed if they are given a chance

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Despite the Biden victory there are still a huge number of Americans who voted for Trump. They might win next time. If they dont win they will come close.

They cant all be conspiracy theory covidiot loons. Some will be educated and some will be nice people.
How do you explain their support for a candidate who essentially had a negative message for the US ?

Actually, I can explain it very well. I see it in my own family.

For the last 50 years, the White Working Class has been in decline. Part of this has been because of the decline of unions. Part of this is that the situation after WWII was truly an artificial one, and the White Working Class was benefiting from the rest of the world's industry being in ruins.

The Republican Party has been responsible for a lot of this, taking the side of the Investor Class over the Working Class. (And, no, you aren't "investor class" if you have a 401K). So, yes, the white working class struggles, often working two jobs to make ends meet, or meet the material expectations.

The Republican Party has been very good at distracting the WWC by blaming foreigners, minorities, government, and just about everyone who isn't the investor class. Blaming is easy. Addressing your shortcomings is hard. So it's the easy path.

Its a similar picture over here. the phrase used is "|communities that have been left behind".

Most of the prosperity in recent times has been generated by specific areas leaving large swathes of the country behind. Areas that have never recovered from the decline of coal and steel. They were well paid jobs that arent needed anymore.

So people are angry and somebody has to be to blame. Any politician who can frame a scapegoat will get a hearing. Over here it is immigrants and the EU. If you can wrap a flag around it then that is even better.

Its possible that better education might help but I suspect that a more equitable society is the long term solution. A lot of people have suffered during the pandemic but a select few have done very well out of it. That cant be a good basis for any society.

 

[JoeB131]

1) China has engaged in intellectual property theft, made it extremely difficult for foreign products to compete on their market and offer their workers no protection from unsafe or unfair labor practices. When you cut corners everything is cheaper to produce. Why subsidize China's bad behavior?

"intellectual property theft"? Really? We aren't talking about some knockoff CD, we're talking about mass produced cheap goods.

2) We need immigration reform. Millions of people worldwide have submitted applications to come to the US and wait patiently in their respective countries for an answer. Illegal entry into the US should not be rewarded.

But we are rewarding the white people who hire undocumented workers, including Trump, who has been cited for using undocumented labor in his properties. Now, if you really wanted to fix this problem, you create a guest worker program and crack down hard on the people hiring them. But again, that doesn't give the relief the angry white dude feels about undocumented, even when he's picking up a truck of day-laborers to finish his home improvement project.

3) Fair trade requires everyone to improve worker conditions. We need to push up not down.

Here's the problem with that. For an American, working in a factory is a step down. For a Chinese, working in a factory is a step up from working in the Rice Paddies.

4) I'll simply point out that prior to fracking oil prices were very high. I am grateful for fracking and hope we maintain this direction.

Uh, no. The amount of enviromental damage it causes is a lot worse than having to pay a few cents more at the gas pump.

The truth about fracking and the environment

www.wilderness.org

.

 

[Mac1958]

Despite the Biden victory there are still a huge number of Americans who voted for Trump. They might win next time. If they dont win they will come close.

They cant all be conspiracy theory covidiot loons. Some will be educated and some will be nice people.
How do you explain their support for a candidate who essentially had a negative message for the US ?

I dont think that trump had any political beliefs at all. He believed in trump. Next time the right may come back with somebody who believes all the crap.

Biden seems to be an underwhelming choice of candidate and maybe that was the plan. Pick the least offensive guy out there. I cant see him as any more than a stop gap to rid the country of trump.

So how does the left stop a Trump MK 2 happening in a couple of years? How do you protect the progress made in your society over the years ?

I have stated Democrats only but I am happy to discuss this with right wingers who can think beyond the usual sloganeering.

I see only one way to promote or achieve any kind of healing, and it's not going to happen by reaching out to people who have been convinced they're in a "war". It has to be done incrementally, just little victories here and there, so that the loons are slowly either marginalized or de-fanged.

So, when Biden gets in, if the Left looks like it's going to force anything, it ain't gonna work. The Trumpsters would fight it, no matter how benign it might actually be.

Words like "bring us together" are just platitudes, but I guess they have to be said in politics.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Despite the Biden victory there are still a huge number of Americans who voted for Trump. They might win next time. If they dont win they will come close.

They cant all be conspiracy theory covidiot loons. Some will be educated and some will be nice people.
How do you explain their support for a candidate who essentially had a negative message for the US ?

I dont think that trump had any political beliefs at all. He believed in trump. Next time the right may come back with somebody who believes all the crap.

Biden seems to be an underwhelming choice of candidate and maybe that was the plan. Pick the least offensive guy out there. I cant see him as any more than a stop gap to rid the country of trump.

So how does the left stop a Trump MK 2 happening in a couple of years? How do you protect the progress made in your society over the years ?

I have stated Democrats only but I am happy to discuss this with right wingers who can think beyond the usual sloganeering.

I see only one way to promote or achieve any kind of healing, and it's not going to happen by reaching out to people who have been convinced they're in a "war". It has to be done incrementally, just little victories here and there, so that the loons are slowly either marginalized or de-fanged.

So, when Biden gets in, if the Left looks like it's going to force anything, it ain't gonna work. The Trumpsters would fight it, no matter how benign it might actually be.

Words like "bring us together" are just platitudes, but I guess they have to be said in politics.

I think that was just aspirational. I also dont think you will reach the folk on the margins. But some of the hysteria around this result is easily put to bed and some folk may realise it was a load of bullshit. But it is scary when you consider how many folk voted for Trump.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Despite the Biden victory there are still a huge number of Americans who voted for Trump. They might win next time. If they dont win they will come close.

They cant all be conspiracy theory covidiot loons. Some will be educated and some will be nice people.
How do you explain their support for a candidate who essentially had a negative message for the US ?

I dont think that trump had any political beliefs at all. He believed in trump. Next time the right may come back with somebody who believes all the crap.

Biden seems to be an underwhelming choice of candidate and maybe that was the plan. Pick the least offensive guy out there. I cant see him as any more than a stop gap to rid the country of trump.

So how does the left stop a Trump MK 2 happening in a couple of years? How do you protect the progress made in your society over the years ?

I have stated Democrats only but I am happy to discuss this with right wingers who can think beyond the usual sloganeering.

Tommy, if Western Europe was invade, it won't be like WW 1 and WW 2 now. And the ones who will save your azzes again are mostly the ones you hate.

I love America. But this is irrelevant to the thread.

 

[sartre play]

My understanding is that oil company's are not doing so well & if you check past history's they were big hitters, not so much now. also that fracking is not very profitable. not even counting the pollution.

 

[sartre play]

Not really interested at this point in time about the more distance future, Now we need to focus on beating the virus back so we can get the economy going again.

 

[Mac1958]

Despite the Biden victory there are still a huge number of Americans who voted for Trump. They might win next time. If they dont win they will come close.

They cant all be conspiracy theory covidiot loons. Some will be educated and some will be nice people.
How do you explain their support for a candidate who essentially had a negative message for the US ?

I dont think that trump had any political beliefs at all. He believed in trump. Next time the right may come back with somebody who believes all the crap.

Biden seems to be an underwhelming choice of candidate and maybe that was the plan. Pick the least offensive guy out there. I cant see him as any more than a stop gap to rid the country of trump.

So how does the left stop a Trump MK 2 happening in a couple of years? How do you protect the progress made in your society over the years ?

I have stated Democrats only but I am happy to discuss this with right wingers who can think beyond the usual sloganeering.

I see only one way to promote or achieve any kind of healing, and it's not going to happen by reaching out to people who have been convinced they're in a "war". It has to be done incrementally, just little victories here and there, so that the loons are slowly either marginalized or de-fanged.

So, when Biden gets in, if the Left looks like it's going to force anything, it ain't gonna work. The Trumpsters would fight it, no matter how benign it might actually be.

Words like "bring us together" are just platitudes, but I guess they have to be said in politics.

I think that was just aspirational. I also dont think you will reach the folk on the margins. But some of the hysteria around this result is easily put to bed and some folk may realise it was a load of bullshit. But it is scary when you consider how many folk voted for Trump.

Yeah, I've recently changed my mind on this. I used to think that anyone could get past the BS, but I don't think so. Some just won't be a part of the conversation, and that's that.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

What was Trump's negative message???

.

Support American Sovereignty and act as President to work in the interests of the American people.

To Globalists, this sort of talk acts like sunlight to a vampire.

 

[verker]

Ted Cruz are personal favor of 2024 ...

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I didn't care for Trump's personality but I appreciated his policies and will happily vote for a candidate that will:

1. push China to engage in fair trade
2. reform our immigration policy
3. seek to return manufacturing jobs to the US
4. continue to strive that we are energy independent

Trump is not important - the types of policies I listed are.

Okay, let's look at that.

1) China isn't really the problem, our own behavior is. We go into walmart, and we buy the cheapest thing on the shelf. Right now, that happens to be something made in China. But even China is becoming too expensive, so a lot of those factories are moving to Vietnam, the Philippines, India or wherever else people are willing to work in a dirty factory with unsafe condition.

2) Trump hasn't "reformed" our immigration policy. Our laws haven't changed, he's been more inclined to deny H1B visas.... which companies really need.

3) See point 1, but I'll add on to that. Are you willing to work for as little as a Chinese does to get that manufacturing job? Are you willing to have a factory in your neighborhood that pollutes the water and air?

4) Except we aren't really energy independent. It's still cheaper to buy from the Arabs than it is to frack. Fracking only is profitable when OPEC raises the price of oil high enough to make it feasible. Right now, the world is in an oil glut, partially due to Covid. Trump had to commit to buying oil for the Strategic reserve to keep the Fracking Industry fluid.

1) China has engaged in intellectual property theft, made it extremely difficult for foreign products to compete on their market and offer their workers no protection from unsafe or unfair labor practices. When you cut corners everything is cheaper to produce. Why subsidize China's bad behavior?

2) We need immigration reform. Millions of people worldwide have submitted applications to come to the US and wait patiently in their respective countries for an answer. Illegal entry into the US should not be rewarded.

3) Fair trade requires everyone to improve worker conditions. We need to push up not down.

4) I'll simply point out that prior to fracking oil prices were very high. I am grateful for fracking and hope we maintain this direction.

.

Just thinking about your first point. China is a problem to the west. But to combat that yo,u need unified action. Trump never took the trouble to build any alliances on anything and so his actions were generally crowd pleasers for the folks back home rather than an effective strategy. Iran comes to mind as well.

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Party Ideal To Offshore America Industry "

* Please Let Us Help You By Taking Our Jobs From Us *

How do you explain their support for a candidate who essentially had a negative message for the US ?

I dont think that trump had any political beliefs at all. He believed in trump. Next time the right may come back with somebody who believes all the crap.

The strump maintained at least in part that americans should be first for america .

Trump On China Versus Beijing Biden And A History Of Devaluing Economic Policies

" Trump On China Versus Beijing Biden And A History Of Devaluing Economic Policies " * Efforts To Rectify Deteriorating Conditions * None is highlighting that trump took on china for us interests , while career politicians practice incompetence and indifference for the interests of us citizens...

www.usmessageboard.com

Alternatively , the religion of secular humanism wants to indemnify americans to the world towards a Gini coefficient - Wikipedia of zero .