Born in the U.S. = American citizen, but not if Trump has his way

[Unkotare]

......

China is building an army of Chinese who are born in the US and have no connection to the US, but who are considered just as American as someone who can trace their lineage back 100 or 200 years AND just as patriotic.

Wow, really? "Building an army"? First of all, there is no 'degree' of American citizenship based on how many generations back your ancestors arrived. Someone who was naturalized today is every bit as much an American as someone whose great-great-great-great-great-great uncle Bartholomew caught a ride on the Mayflower. One of America's great strengths is that we are unique in this regard. America is not about how many people with your same last name are buried in American soil, as in European countries and many other places. America is more than that. America is better than that.

Second, those Chinese "birth tourists" are not training an invasion force, they are making sure their children can attend school in the US when they are older. Frankly, we could use more citizens who come here to study hard, delay gratification, and contribute to our nation's prosperity than we do those whose 'family business' is generational welfare and drug abuse, or confused individuals who think the fact they "can trace their lineage back 100 or 200 years" is what it means to be an American.

 

[OldLady]

Trump has proposed ending birthright citizenship. Okay...more nations haven't got that policy than do have that policy. So it's not as though it couldn't be implemented. But how far do we want to go with this?

• 14th Amendment
  "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
  
  
• Statelessness
  • The Human Rights of Stateless Persons

Does Trump only want people born to a US citizen to be US citizens? What about legal immigrants who have been here for years but have not become US citizens--their kids are all born here and live here their whole lives--they are not US citizens? Quite a few immigrants do not go through the process of naturalization--it is costly, complicated and you have to revoke your citizenship in your native country. But they live here legally and raise their families here.
Also, you have to live here five years to apply for naturalization (unless you marry a US citizen, in which case this problem wouldn't apply anyway). What if you have a baby during that time? That child will have to go through the process of obtaining citizenship when (s)he becomes 18?
Trump may not like "anchor babies" but he's going to do a lot of damage to innocent bystanders who are here legally with this rule.
Couldn't he just propose that if the parents are here illegally, their minor children must accompany them back to their home country when deported, or have legal guardianship transferred to a US citizen in order to stay? I worked a case once where the mother was in prison for illegally entering the country, and the kids had to be in DHHS custody until she got out. That is NOT an expense we want to pay.

What happened to dual citizenship? How long is the prison sentence for illegally entering the US?
I certainly hope these problem areas will be addressed, but lawmakers often pass laws and then find the unintended consequences.

Dual citizenship is no longer allowed, not even for Canadians. I don't know the specifics of that mom I referenced, but she was in for a year. It would have been cheaper to send her back home sans the jail time, imo.

Not true.
"The Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) neither defines dual citizenship nor takes a position for it or against it. There has been no prohibition against dual citizenship, but some provisions of the INA and earlier U.S. nationality laws were designed to reduce situations in which dual citizenship exists. Although naturalizing citizens are required to undertake an oath renouncing previous allegiances, the oath has never been enforced to require the actual termination of original citizenship."

I seriously doubt that anyone is put in prison for a year for illegally entering the US. She must have been guilty of a few more crimes as well.

Maybe. We should check with ICE. This was also several, several years ago.

 

[Unkotare]

..... Give the anchor babies the boot right along with their parents. If they want to come back, get in line like the rest of the world does.

You can't "give the boot" to US citizens, and we are NOT going to.

 

[320 Years of History]

The rules of who is a citizen has to be clarified. If only to resolve the issue of citizenship for birth tourists. Women come here in the last stages of pregnancy specifically to have an American citizen child, then return home. By far, Chinese women make ip the bulk of birth tourists.

China is building an army of Chinese who are born in the US and have no connection to the US, but who are considered just as American as someone who can trace their lineage back 100 or 200 years AND just as patriotic.

Do you have any credible evidence to support those claims (italicized text)?

I know the visa approval requirements have changed in recent years, and I know that has produced a surge in Chinese visitors. What I'm asking of you is credible evidence of the tourist birth assertion and near conspiracy theory you've introduced.

 

[OldLady]

......

China is building an army of Chinese who are born in the US and have no connection to the US, but who are considered just as American as someone who can trace their lineage back 100 or 200 years AND just as patriotic.

Wow, really? "Building an army"? First of all, there is no 'degree' of American citizenship based on how many generations back your ancestors arrived. Someone who was naturalized today is every bit as much an American as someone whose great-great-great-great-great-great uncle Bartholomew caught a ride on the Mayflower. One of America's great strengths is that we are unique in this regard. America is not about how many people with your same last name are buried in American soil, as in European countries and many other places. America is more than that. America is better than that.

Second, those Chinese "birth tourists" are not training an invasion force, they are making sure their children can attend school in the US when they are older. Frankly, we could use more citizens who come here to study hard, delay gratification, and contribute to our nation's prosperity than we do those whose 'family business' is generational welfare and drug abuse, or confused individuals who think the fact they "can trace their lineage back 100 or 200 years" is what it means to be an American.

I wonder if these Chinese children with US citizenship are causing any kind of problem in China? Without dual citizenship, are they "second class citizens" in China?

 

[Tom Horn]

..... Give the anchor babies the boot right along with their parents. If they want to come back, get in line like the rest of the world does.

You can't "give the boot" to US citizens, and we are NOT going to.

Anchor babies are counterfeit citizens and yes we ARE going to now while we have the chance...when there are another 20 million it will be impossible.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

....A simple ruling on the meaning of "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" will make or break it.

The Supreme Court already did that.

See #37

 

[Unkotare]

......

China is building an army of Chinese who are born in the US and have no connection to the US, but who are considered just as American as someone who can trace their lineage back 100 or 200 years AND just as patriotic.

Wow, really? "Building an army"? First of all, there is no 'degree' of American citizenship based on how many generations back your ancestors arrived. Someone who was naturalized today is every bit as much an American as someone whose great-great-great-great-great-great uncle Bartholomew caught a ride on the Mayflower. One of America's great strengths is that we are unique in this regard. America is not about how many people with your same last name are buried in American soil, as in European countries and many other places. America is more than that. America is better than that.

Second, those Chinese "birth tourists" are not training an invasion force, they are making sure their children can attend school in the US when they are older. Frankly, we could use more citizens who come here to study hard, delay gratification, and contribute to our nation's prosperity than we do those whose 'family business' is generational welfare and drug abuse, or confused individuals who think the fact they "can trace their lineage back 100 or 200 years" is what it means to be an American.

I wonder if these Chinese children with US citizenship are causing any kind of problem in China? Without dual citizenship, are they "second class citizens" in China?

Nope.

 

[Unkotare]

..... Give the anchor babies the boot right along with their parents. If they want to come back, get in line like the rest of the world does.

You can't "give the boot" to US citizens, and we are NOT going to.

Anchor babies are counterfeit citizens .....

No such thing. Any baby born in the US is every bit as much a citizen as you or me. That's reality, and we are NOT going to deport US citizens. The sooner people set aside the silly emoting, the sooner serious discussion of the serious issue of illegal immigration can be addressed.

 

[ChrisL]

I would think that if a person entered the country illegally, illegally used our medical resources to have a child, then the child would be considered illegal too. If they did things the legal and proper way and they are citizens, then the child should be a citizen automatically.

 

[Tom Horn]

No such thing. Any baby born in the US is every bit as much a citizen as you or me. That's reality, and we are NOT going to deport US citizens. The sooner people set aside the silly emoting, the sooner serious discussion of the serious issue of illegal immigration can be addressed.

Nope...gaming our kindness can't be rewarded...they gotta go...hopefully they can start a revolution in mexico, throw out the ruling families and drug cartels and STAY THERE.

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

• "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof ..."

No amendment is necessary. A simple ruling on the meaning of "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" will make or break it.

That ruling has already been made and established by the Supremes 118 years ago in United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 1898. Wong was not a subject of the Emperor of China, but subject to the laws of the US and the State in which he resided, California having been born in San Francisco.
United States v. Wong Kim Ark

There are differing opinions, and there is no such thing as "settled law".

Differing opinions just don't get'er done. 118 years of an established precedent could be overturned but extremely unlikely given the scope of the circumstances! I provided the link again below again to the decision to enable you read the portion between page [654] and [658] regarding the basis of the term "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in common law which is a foundation block of the US Constitution!
United States v. Wong Kim Ark

 

[Unkotare]

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

 

[Unkotare]

.........they gotta go.......

The Constitution of the United States of America disagrees with you.

 

[Redfish]

Trump has proposed ending birthright citizenship. Okay...more nations haven't got that policy than do have that policy. So it's not as though it couldn't be implemented. But how far do we want to go with this?

• 14th Amendment
  "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
  
  
• Statelessness
  • The Human Rights of Stateless Persons

the 14th amendment was ratified in order to convey citizenship to freed slaves and their children. It was never intended to create anchor babies or give citizenship to children who happened to be born in the USA to foreign parents.

It needs to be repealed.

 

[Unkotare]

.........hopefully they can start a revolution in mexico, throw out the ruling families and drug cartels and STAY THERE.

This may come as a shock, but not all illegal aliens come from Mexico.

 

[jillian]

Trump has proposed ending birthright citizenship. Okay...more nations haven't got that policy than do have that policy. So it's not as though it couldn't be implemented. But how far do we want to go with this?

• 14th Amendment
  "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
  
  
• Statelessness
  • The Human Rights of Stateless Persons

nazis love when citizenship is by blood and not birth.

 

[Conservative65]

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Never was intended to reward anyone that was born here due to a criminal act. The argument is the kids didn't have anything to do with it. Same argument could be made about the kids of a bank robber. Should they get to keep the money using that same argument?

 

[Tom Horn]

There are differing opinions, and there is no such thing as "settled law".

Yep, Obawna showed us how to use "executive orders" like a king....Trump can stack the USSC and do whatever the hell he pleases....fight fire with NAPALM.

 

[Unkotare]

......

It needs to be repealed.

A certain minority of people say that in forums such as this, but they never seem to do anything about it.