Break down of Sandy Hook shooting....

[Ame®icano]

Take any of the industrialized nations that JOEB131 is talking about. With exception of Germany and France (one had Hitler thing, the other had revolution), most of them are still monarchies with democratic governments, but if you look deep enough you'll see they have social classes that are still kinda same like in feudalism. Yes, they have police and armies but also kings, lords, barons and pleb classes with all in their roles.

If you ask people of those countries, most of them would say that only police and army should have weapons to defend them with. Why? Because they are literal plebeians and that's how their society is triggered out of it. There are so many similarities between them and feudalism that question is if they ever left that phase. Here in US, people are at least expected to be independent and caring for themselves. The gun above fireplace still define our independence as a man.

After all, how many of those industrializes nations today are capable to defend themselves from outside aggression? How many people of those nations would be able to defend themselves from their own governments. They're not even able to start a revolution anymore. All they can do is bitch...

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, they also pay high taxes, submit to government rule, some bow to kings, etc. But you're right when you say they still have the vote. What is guarantee it will stay that way?

Okay, they pay high taxes, and they have a lot more than we do in terms of medical care, social welfare, etc. Because that's what they want. they also have better education, a better standard of living, they don't have the grinding poverty we have.

You do realize the few countries that still have monarchs, the monarchs are only ceremonial, right?

As far as "having the vote", frankly, the only country I see trying to take the vote away from people is this one. You know, them uppity darkies are voting, and we can't have that.

 

[JoeB131]

You know...if you average in the deaths from the German Government and the Soviets...Europe's murder rate is way above ours.....but the anti gunners will never do that....kind of reinforces the whole point of the 2nd Amendment in the first place....

If you want to include the Nazis and Soviets, we should also include the genocide of Native Americans in this country. Not to mention the genocide of slavery Which was kind of brought to you by the second amendment.

Oh, yeah, WESTERN Europe's murder rate is nowhere near ours.

 

[JoeB131]

Except for that short period of European history where they murdered over 70 million people.....except for that they didn't need guns, of course, I'm sure that won't ever happen again......right?....oh...and of course the fact that people get beaten, robbed, raped and murdered...and have no means to stop it....that too....

You mean that period where they had WARS? Oh, yeah, when you have WARS, lots of people die.

We had a bunch of WARS in the 19th century. And when we weren't killing Native Americans, we were killing each other over whether a bunch of rich assholes could keep owning other human beings. Having guns kind of enabled some of that stupidity.

 

[JoeB131]

Take any of the industrialized nations that JOEB131 is talking about. With exception of Germany and France (one had Hitler thing, the other had revolution), most of them are still monarchies with democratic governments, but if you look deep enough you'll see they have social classes that are still kinda same like in feudalism. Yes, they have police and armies but also kings, lords, barons and pleb classes with all in their roles.

Okay, couple of points, because it's clear that you didn't learn history in your Home-Skule. Germany didn't get rid of its Kaiser because of Hitler, it got rid of him because they lost WWI. The French had Kings and Emperors after their revolution. The last Monarch was toppled after they lost a war to Germany in 1870. and, yes, while they still have "Titles', those things to go actors and shit now. I should also point out that Italy, Austria and a few other countries there are also Monarch free.

Man, I love right wingers. They are all so shit ignorant. It's like that episode of the Beverly Hillbillies where they inherited a castle and Jethro was looking for all the Serfs.

Moving right along.

If you ask people of those countries, most of them would say that only police and army should have weapons to defend them with. Why? Because they are literal plebeians and that's how their society is triggered out of it. There are so many similarities between them and feudalism that question is if they ever left that phase. Here in US, people are at least expected to be independent and caring for themselves. The gun above fireplace still define our independence as a man.

No, most of them would say that because, really, the two reasons why you clowns give for owning guns are kind of silly. A gun is more likely to kill a member of your household than a bad guy, and the government is always, always going to be better armed than you are.

After all, how many of those industrializes nations today are capable to defend themselves from outside aggression? How many people of those nations would be able to defend themselves from their own governments. They're not even able to start a revolution anymore. All they can do is bitch...

Well, first, as we are seeing in the Ukraine, military aggression today is a losing proposition. We also should have figured this out in Iraq. The costs of invading another country far outweighs any benefit of invading it. Their ability to defend themselves from their own government is the same as ours. Not much. You see, here's the thing. Even the worst governments survive because they have the tacit support of their people. The "Good Germans" never show up. They fight to the last man for Hitler.

Sorry, man, bitterly clinging to your gun might give you the illusion of freedom, but the reality is, you stupid rednecks already swapped your freedom out to multi-national corporations. Because George W. Bush was right with Jesus.

 

[Ame®icano]

Yeah, they also pay high taxes, submit to government rule, some bow to kings, etc. But you're right when you say they still have the vote. What is guarantee it will stay that way?

Okay, they pay high taxes, and they have a lot more than we do in terms of medical care, social welfare, etc. Because that's what they want. they also have better education, a better standard of living, they don't have the grinding poverty we have.

You do realize the few countries that still have monarchs, the monarchs are only ceremonial, right?

As far as "having the vote", frankly, the only country I see trying to take the vote away from people is this one. You know, them uppity darkies are voting, and we can't have that.

It depends what is "more" in terms of medical care. Having "free" national health care is paid for by higher taxes. More waiting to get that "free" care is debatable. Who needs it once is too late?

When you talking about better education, I assume you're talking about public education. Take a step back and think why our public education sucks. I don't think problem is money, because we're giving to education a lot, so problem could be in teachers or in kids.

I do realize their monarchs are ceremonial titles, but I wasn't talking about that. Try reading again what I said about whole , look little further then your own nose.

About voting. Try voting in UK without papers. Yet try voting twice.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Find me one single link which identifies a gun owner ever seeing Lanza at ANY gun range s0n!!!

You're one of those dummies who thinks you can put a 12G shotgun into a Honda Civic glove compartment.

Spambot, this is why I normally ignore you. YOu add nothing to a conversation.

This wasn't even hard.

Did Nancy Lanza Handle Her Guns Responsibly You ll Be Surprised Police Spokesman Says - The Daily Beast

The most disturbing questions have to do with the guns—perhaps as many as seven of them—stored in the Lanza basement in what has variously been described as a “lockbox” and as a simple “gun cabinet.” Why would a mother, an intelligent former stockbroker, bring guns and large-capacity magazines into a home with a clearly disturbed 20-year-old son? Couldn’t she feel the potential danger as she replaced the guns in her basement storage spot after a session at the gun range with Adam? Nancy took Adam to the shooting range, friends have said, to teach him respect for guns. It seems to have been the sole activity where she and her son had a chance to bond—but in retrospect it was the worst decision of Nancy’s life.

fAiL s0n.........link please?

Link for anybody placing Lanza at any gun range......no "police spokesman" bs. No gun range ever saw Adam Lanza. To be the most expert shooter in mass murder history, he'd have to had been at a gun range.........frequently. Wall Street Journal reporter sent to all gun ranges within 50 miles of the Lanza home...........nobody ever saw him...........ever.

Mind Control Sandy Hook The Gun Range Myth and other media-created fantasies

Do you really think that someone has to "play" on gun range to learn how to handle gun? You can learn those things today from pretty much any shooting video game.

Ame®icano

We need a sub-forum repository of really stupid things nutters say about guns. This statement would be stickied at the top.

 

[Ame®icano]

Find me one single link which identifies a gun owner ever seeing Lanza at ANY gun range s0n!!!

You're one of those dummies who thinks you can put a 12G shotgun into a Honda Civic glove compartment.

Spambot, this is why I normally ignore you. YOu add nothing to a conversation.

This wasn't even hard.

Did Nancy Lanza Handle Her Guns Responsibly You ll Be Surprised Police Spokesman Says - The Daily Beast

The most disturbing questions have to do with the guns—perhaps as many as seven of them—stored in the Lanza basement in what has variously been described as a “lockbox” and as a simple “gun cabinet.” Why would a mother, an intelligent former stockbroker, bring guns and large-capacity magazines into a home with a clearly disturbed 20-year-old son? Couldn’t she feel the potential danger as she replaced the guns in her basement storage spot after a session at the gun range with Adam? Nancy took Adam to the shooting range, friends have said, to teach him respect for guns. It seems to have been the sole activity where she and her son had a chance to bond—but in retrospect it was the worst decision of Nancy’s life.

fAiL s0n.........link please?

Link for anybody placing Lanza at any gun range......no "police spokesman" bs. No gun range ever saw Adam Lanza. To be the most expert shooter in mass murder history, he'd have to had been at a gun range.........frequently. Wall Street Journal reporter sent to all gun ranges within 50 miles of the Lanza home...........nobody ever saw him...........ever.

Mind Control Sandy Hook The Gun Range Myth and other media-created fantasies

Do you really think that someone has to "play" on gun range to learn how to handle gun? You can learn those things today from pretty much any shooting video game.

Ame®icano

We need a sub-forum repository of really stupid things nutters say about guns. This statement would be stickied at the top.

Yeah, right.

I'd say that whoever is not able to figure out how to load, point and shoot is retarded. You can stick this wherever you want it.

 

[JoeB131]

It depends what is "more" in terms of medical care. Having "free" national health care is paid for by higher taxes. More waiting to get that "free" care is debatable. Who needs it once is too late?

I think that waiting for elective surgery is still better than denying life-saving surgery because you don't have insurance or your insurance company tries to cheat you.

When you talking about better education, I assume you're talking about public education. Take a step back and think why our public education sucks. I don't think problem is money, because we're giving to education a lot, so problem could be in teachers or in kids.

I think the problem is our priorities and wealth disparity. A kid on the South Side of Chicago is not going to get the same level of education spending as a kid in Evanston.

I do realize their monarchs are ceremonial titles, but I wasn't talking about that. Try reading again what I said about whole , look little further then your own nose.

I did read what you said, Jethro, it was just so ass-poundingly retarded that it needed to be mocked.

About voting. Try voting in UK without papers. Yet try voting twice.

The UK didn't have a history of poll taxes and literacy tests to keep blacks from voting. We do.

 

[Ame®icano]

I think that waiting for elective surgery is still better than denying life-saving surgery because you don't have insurance or your insurance company tries to cheat you.

There are laws in US that prevent denial of care. Check EMTALA/COBRA laws.

Now I expect you to back up your claim.

I think the problem is our priorities and wealth disparity. A kid on the South Side of Chicago is not going to get the same level of education spending as a kid in Evanston.

OK, lets take example.
Operating cost per student in Tilden High/South Side Chicago is $17,584.
Operating cost per student in Evanston is $21,428.

Yep, there is difference of some $4,000.

Now let's get little bit further.

Operating cost per student in Utica Community Schools, Michigan is $10,526. It ranks in top 20% nationally, so they're not the best schools in the country, but they're doing OK.

Median household income in Tilden is some $35,000, while in Utica District is some $63,000. Having said that, Tilden school should show much better results then Utica, since they're spending $7,000 more per student. I don't think you have an argument here...

The UK didn't have a history of poll taxes and literacy tests to keep blacks from voting. We do.

Before we get into specifics, can you prove that today in US we don't allow black to vote? And btw, in UK, only those who registered to vote and have their polling card/number are allowed to vote.

 

[Nosmo King]

6 minutes and 6 seonds before the police even knew there was a problem.......

Which is why the answer is trained, armed security at all public buildings when they are open.

Can't afford that. Republican tax cuts, you know!

 

[Anathema]

Can't afford that. Republican tax cuts, you know!

No problem at all. Those tax cuts should be included with the gutting of every unConstitutional program in the US Budget..... We'd save about 65% of what we're spending in the budget, thereby allowing us to secure the US Borders AND all Federal buildings. Similar spending cuts should make it possible at the State and Local levels as well.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Can't afford that. Republican tax cuts, you know!

No problem at all. Those tax cuts should be included with the gutting of every unConstitutional program in the US Budget..... We'd save about 65% of what we're spending in the budget, thereby allowing us to secure the US Borders AND all Federal buildings. Similar spending cuts should make it possible at the State and Local levels as well.

At last, the police state you and others on the right have always dreamed of.

 

[JoeB131]

There are laws in US that prevent denial of care. Check EMTALA/COBRA laws.

Now I expect you to back up your claim.

Okay, Jethro, if you really think those are helpful for someone who doesn't have a job or insurance, you are cracked. Do you really think that an unemployed person can afford $500 a month for Cobra, or the thousands of dollars a visit to the emergency room costs?

OK, lets take example.
Operating cost per student in Tilden High/South Side Chicago is $17,584.
Operating cost per student in Evanston is $21,428.

Yep, there is difference of some $4,000.

Now let's get little bit further.

Operating cost per student in Utica Community Schools, Michigan is $10,526. It ranks in top 20% nationally, so they're not the best schools in the country, but they're doing OK.

Median household income in Tilden is some $35,000, while in Utica District is some $63,000. Having said that, Tilden school should show much better results then Utica, since they're spending $7,000 more per student. I don't think you have an argument here...

nice job cherry picking numbers. Tilden is a Technical High school, and it's performance is higher than the CPS on average. The average in Chicago overall is $13,078.

Also kind of hard to really use a term like 'operating cost" when you are talking about security in an inner city school.

 

[JoeB131]

Before we get into specifics, can you prove that today in US we don't allow black to vote? And btw, in UK, only those who registered to vote and have their polling card/number are allowed to vote.

Well, Jethro, what you do you think the voter ID Movement is all about? How come your side didn't start whining about it until Obama got elected? Who do you think they are trying to keep from voting?

It isn't because there really is rampant voter fraud. Bush's Justice Department investigated and found that wasn't happening.

 

[Anathema]

At last, the police state you and others on the right have always dreamed of.

At last, a Constitutional Government that operates inside the legal limits of its mandate and a Society based on Order rather than the ignorance and stupidity that is the concept of Freedom For All.

 

[theHawk]

I agree our mental health care system is a mess.

But guns are still too easy to get.

The clown who just shot 2 cops in NYC not only had a history of mental health issues, but he had 14 arrests on his jacket in 4 states. But he was still able to get a gun from somewhere.

Then why don't you exhaust your energy on the real problem, mentally ill and criminals being freed in the first place.

These guys should had been locked up. That's the best way to keep them from guns.

You progressives fantasize that you'll be able to someday eliminate guns altogether, when the fact of the matter is guns are basic technology that would easily be made on the black market if needed (being outlawed would indeed create that need). You idiots need to accept the fact that guns are here. If a gun owner is around a mentally ill/challenged individual then it that person needs to be held responsible for keeping the guns locked up and away from that person. You want to lay blame on everyone else who abides by the law, as opposed to the woman who neglected her duty as a gun owner and lax laws that let a maniac on the streets.

 

[JoeB131]

Then why don't you exhaust your energy on the real problem, mentally ill and criminals being freed in the first place.

These guys should had been locked up. That's the best way to keep them from guns.

We already lock up 2 million people in this country. Most other industrialized countries, the ones where they don't let civilians have guns- only lock up 30,000- 80,000. If locking them up was a solution, then we'd be the safest country in the industrialized world, not the most dangerous.

You progressives fantasize that you'll be able to someday eliminate guns altogether, when the fact of the matter is guns are basic technology that would easily be made on the black market if needed (being outlawed would indeed create that need). You idiots need to accept the fact that guns are here. If a gun owner is around a mentally ill/challenged individual then it that person needs to be held responsible for keeping the guns locked up and away from that person. You want to lay blame on everyone else who abides by the law, as opposed to the woman who neglected her duty as a gun owner and lax laws that let a maniac on the streets.

It's hardly a fantasy when other countries have either banned private gun ownership or severely limit it. Have they gotten rid of all guns and all gun deaths? No. Have they severely reduced the amount of gun violence? Yup!

The United Kingdom has 48 gun homicides a year. Japan has 11. Even Germany, where you can get guns with some special permits (about one gun for every five Germans) has only 258 gun homicides a year.

The US Has on average 11,500 gun homicides a year. Shit, we have on average 800 ACCIDENTAL gun deaths, usually proceeded by the most famous last words, 'Hold my beer!"

So saying "It can't be done' kind of ignores everyone who has already done it.

 

[Anathema]

It's hardly a fantasy when other countries have either banned private gun ownership or severely limit it. Have they gotten rid of all guns and all gun deaths? No. Have they severely reduced the amount of gun violence? Yup!

The United Kingdom has 48 gun homicides a year. Japan has 11. Even Germany, where you can get guns with some special permits (about one gun for every five Germans) has only 258 gun homicides a year.

The US Has on average 11,500 gun homicides a year. Shit, we have on average 800 ACCIDENTAL gun deaths, usually proceeded by the most famous last words, 'Hold my beer!"

So saying "It can't be done' kind of ignores everyone who has already done it.

It's a fantasy for two reasons.....

1. Those nations do not have a Constitution which allows for the ownership of firearms, and has for more than two centuries.

2. Those countries don't have an armed citizenry that is not going to give up their firearms without a fight (like the Brits and Aussies did).

American gun owners like myself will go to our graves before we give up our firearms, and we'll take Government pawns with us if necessary, to protect the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

 

[JoeB131]

It's a fantasy for two reasons.....

1. Those nations do not have a Constitution which allows for the ownership of firearms, and has for more than two centuries.

Most of those two centuries, the second Amendment was not seen as a right to own firearms, it was seen as a right of states to have militias and regulate gun ownership. the concept that gun ownership is part of the second amendment is a recent invention.

All it takes is getting some non-mouth-breathers on SCOTUS to fix that problem.

2. Those countries don't have an armed citizenry that is not going to give up their firearms without a fight (like the Brits and Aussies did).

American gun owners like myself will go to our graves before we give up our firearms, and we'll take Government pawns with us if necessary, to protect the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Okay, what percentage of gun owners do you think aren't going to comply? I mean, you'll have a few nuts who will go the "Full Koresh" with the ATF, but frankly, that would probably just help the gun control forces. shit, we have THESE kinds of nuts out there?