Can "Moderate" leftists un-ring the bell?

[MisterBeale]

For those of you who used to consider yourselves moderate leftists, but have been co-opted by Trump Derangement Syndrome into rubber stamping the radical left's agenda, I have a question. Where do you go from here when Trump is gone? Can you un-ring the bell? Can you somehow go back to believing you have moderate positions, not radical left positions as you are supporting now?

Conservatives: masters of the strawman fallacy.

It is a reasonable question.


You have taken a position that being Pro Jobs and Pro Borders, is like being an insane Nazi bent on War and possibly nuclear holocaust.


How are you supposed to be taken seriously again?

I am pro-worker and believe in borders. It is an mistake for the democrats to put illegals above the American citizen.

But they do, and the Left is enraged the Trump has dared dissent on that.


Do you think that the Left will be more reasonable with the next Republican President?

Hopefully, the left needs to defend the American worker and human rights of the American citizen as it use to do.

As we speak, the current administration is renegotiating all sorts of trade deals.

Now, one could argue that he is doing this for global corporations domiciled here in the U.S.

OTH, if it doesn't produce jobs and higher wages like he promised in his campaign.. . . well, he is screwed.

There are signs that his policies are working for all American citizens, workers, the folks that voted for him. Despite what the elite corporate propaganda would have you believe.

Trump's ICE Gets Hundreds of Black Workers Jobs and Raises at Chicago Bakery
Trump\'s ICE gets hundreds of black workers jobs and raises at Chicago bakery


Sorry, skeptics, Trump’s tax plan is actually working wonders
https://nypost.com/2018/01/27/sorry-skeptics-trumps-tax-plan-is-actually-working-wonders/

 

[sakinago]

Highly unlikely. They are too cowardly to confront the wackos who now control their party. The last one that tried was Webb and he was immediately kicked to the curb.

Far from guiltless, democrats are quite a bit LESS corrupt than the current spineless republicans (with a few exceptions).....

Ultimately we are all faced with the choice of voting for the considerably LESSER of the two evils.

Take out Citizen United and install term limits and we will have a better representative government.

First I think you’re naive to believe that there are only a few corrupt democrats.

But, I am all for term limits. That would fix a lot of fundamental problems. (Evidence of more than a few dems are corrupt is why aren’t they pushing term limits more?)

Trump ran on establishing term limits, so instead of looking for crooked toinails nat, how about you turn to your side and push them to push for term limits. I’ll keep pushing “my side” for term limits. After that look for the crooked toenails. I don’t give an F

 

[rightwinger]

Democrats welcome moderate leadership

Barack Obama is an example

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

open borders

Elaborate on this "radical leftist agenda" you're speaking of.

To be fair, one cannot elaborate on an ‘agenda’ that doesn’t exist.

Well, to be clear, one that is OBVIOUS, is they WANT open borders. They tend to be globalists, they want to dissolve the sovereignty of the US into a global system.

A person would be daft not to see that.

They want the US laws to be preempted by UN codes and laws.

No one advocates for ‘open borders’ – another rightwing lie, another rightwing fallacy.

When we have a border the is so massively, regular and constantly violated,


And you lefties fly into a rage when someone even suggests doing something about that,


your are advocating for an open border.


I do however, believe that you might have so little self awareness that you believe your insane claim.

Hmmm, so tell me how a massive border wall will prevent illegal or overstayed visa holders?

See I am against the wall idea and believe the solution is easier from enforcing existing laws, going after employers and drying up the money that help illegals.

You never stop illegal immigration but you can slow it to a trickle with a invisible wall that uses drones and doing what I just wrote...

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Democrats welcome moderate leadership

Barack Obama is an example

No, Bill Clinton was a moderate... Obama was progressive and idealist...

 

[rightwinger]

Democrats welcome moderate leadership

Barack Obama is an example

No, Bill Clinton was a moderate... Obama was progressive and idealist...

Bill Clinton is another example of Democrats selecting moderates to lead them

 

[Jessica123]

Democrats welcome moderate leadership

Barack Obama is an example

No, Bill Clinton was a moderate... Obama was progressive and idealist...

How is Obama an progressive? He was pro-business, Pro-corporate bail-out, Pro-wall street, didn't defend the unions and didn't do shit for the American worker. He was so bad on the goddamn issue that union democrats voted for fucking Trump.

The only good thing he did was defend human rights for LBGT people. That was the right thing to do.

 

[rightwinger]

Study Shows Obama is the Most Moderate President

The data shows that from 1945 to 2011 Republican presidents have moved more to the right than Democratic presidents have moved to the left. In fact, the Democrats have become more moderate, not liberal.

While Obama has been the most moderate president since 1945, his predecessor President George W. Bush was the most conservative since the end of World War II.

 

[MisterBeale]

open borders

Elaborate on this "radical leftist agenda" you're speaking of.

To be fair, one cannot elaborate on an ‘agenda’ that doesn’t exist.

Well, to be clear, one that is OBVIOUS, is they WANT open borders. They tend to be globalists, they want to dissolve the sovereignty of the US into a global system.

A person would be daft not to see that.

They want the US laws to be preempted by UN codes and laws.

No one advocates for ‘open borders’ – another rightwing lie, another rightwing fallacy.

When we have a border the is so massively, regular and constantly violated,


And you lefties fly into a rage when someone even suggests doing something about that,


your are advocating for an open border.


I do however, believe that you might have so little self awareness that you believe your insane claim.

Hmmm, so tell me how a massive border wall will prevent illegal or overstayed visa holders?

See I am against the wall idea and believe the solution is easier from enforcing existing laws, going after employers and drying up the money that help illegals.

You never stop illegal immigration but you can slow it to a trickle with a invisible wall that uses drones and doing what I just wrote...

You know, I agree with you 100%, but that isn't what the average American voter cast their ballot for.

Instinctively I think they know that with the business lobby, Chamber of Commerce, etc. and all the other lobby groups, there is less chance of THAT happening than there is of getting a great big wall built. They want something they can see.

 

[sakinago]

Democrats welcome moderate leadership

Barack Obama is an example

No, Bill Clinton was a moderate... Obama was progressive and idealist...

How is Obama an progressive? He was pro-business, Pro-corporate bail-out, Pro-wall street, didn't defend the unions and didn't do shit for the American worker. He was so bad on the goddamn issue that union democrats voted for fucking Trump.

The only good thing he did was defend human rights for LBGT people. That was the right thing to do.

You’re confusing pro-business with pro free markets. Free markets say let those fuckers on Wall Street reap what they sow. Being pro-SELECTIVE business is a progressive trait. Prop up what you like and punish what you don’t. Obama wasn’t pro-business as a whole, he was prop up Wall Street, prop up seemingly “green” technologies, punish everything else, especially fossil fuels. That’s what progressives do, pick and choose winners and losers, instead of the citizens picking for themselves. This is what teddy Roosevelt did, FDR did, carter did, et. al. So Obama wasn’t really pro-business, he was pro business he liked, anti-business he didn’t. True pro business (it’s not really pro-business) is throwing business in the deep end and saying you are responsible for your actions, if the public gives you a thumb down, you’re out. If the public can prove you were negligent in some way, you’re screwed. No bailouts, no favors, no tipping the scales to your liking.

 

[nat4900]

First I think you’re naive to believe that there are only a few corrupt democrats.

Just for fun.......

 

[Seawytch]

This thread needs this badly...

Narcissists, Borderlines & Psychopaths: How to Stop Gaslighting

 

[Norman]

Moderate leftist?

That's as rare as a moderate rapist.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

For those of you who used to consider yourselves moderate leftists, but have been co-opted by Trump Derangement Syndrome into rubber stamping the radical left's agenda, I have a question. Where do you go from here when Trump is gone? Can you un-ring the bell? Can you somehow go back to believing you have moderate positions, not radical left positions as you are supporting now?

 

[kaz]

LBGT people are American citizens and such defense shouldn't be considered far left at all as they're people for Christ sakes

For Christ sakes what? Can you give me a subject what you are talking about? Who is somehow harming the LBGT community?

I have quite a few moderate to right wing positions that I believe in. I just think that we should have an safetynet, help the poor and treat people with respect. Is that ok?

Sure, if you want to pay for it. I will contribute too if you come up with an effective program. If you mean rob the rich and enslave the poor as Democrats advocate, I'm out

I believe in the death penalty, I believe in an large amount of capitalism and aint afraid to have a large military for starters.

I am against metoo and blacklivesmatters.

So why are you consumed with Trump Derangement Syndrome then?

1. LBGT people deserve legal protection just like anyone else. They shouldn't be made to feel that they aint welcome within our society either. Freedom is about accepting that not everyone is going to live the way you do. One example is the hatred for trangender people as I believe it is unfounded and needs to stop, while another is the bans on gay adoption of children...Why exactly should anyone be excluded that is a citizen of our country? Some people will even argue that these people shouldn't get medical attention for Pete sakes. It is about human rights and being an society that accepts people as people.

2. We're all better off for having SSI for the old, an educated population(85% of the population get tax payer education) and exist to healthcare for most of our society through medicaid and medicare. Something like 80% of all old people use these programs for nursing home care, etc.A lot of these people would be the poor that are in the gutter if not for these programs as in india and some of the poorer parts of the world. Our economy is far larger for it and our standards of living are higher than most of the world that doesn't have it. I am arguing that it is worth it for me and you to have it.

3. Because of his attacks on human rights as explained in 1. and his disrespect for the poor in my second argument.

What has Trump done to "LGBT people?" What are you even talking about? They have the same rights as everyone else now. You can stop fighting the battle when it's over.

And attacks on the poor? You're just delusional. Trump has done nothing about Social Security, Medicare or any of those things you said.

You just have massive Trump Derangement Syndrome, you're fighting figments of your own imagination

 

[Mac1958]

Can you un-ring the bell?

I doubt it. The Regressive Left has a pretty tight grip on things.

The only hope at this point is a strong, moderate Third Party.
.

 

[kaz]

For those of you who used to consider yourselves moderate leftists, but have been co-opted by Trump Derangement Syndrome into rubber stamping the radical left's agenda, I have a question. Where do you go from here when Trump is gone? Can you un-ring the bell? Can you somehow go back to believing you have moderate positions, not radical left positions as you are supporting now?

I believe in human rights for all humans, period. This is a moderate position, LBGT people are American citizens and such defense shouldn't be considered far left at all as they're people for Christ sakes. I have quite a few moderate to right wing positions that I believe in. I just think that we should have an safetynet, help the poor and treat people with respect. Is that ok?

I believe in the death penalty, I believe in an large amount of capitalism and aint afraid to have a large military for starters.

I am against metoo and blacklivesmatters.

Do you know the difference between capitalism and corporatism?

Corporatism is pretty much capitalism out of control. Big businesses use the government for their own advancement and seek full control over the market place through special favors.

Marxist Rhetoric. Corporatism is a form of socialism. It has nothing to do with capitalism. Either Government makes our choices (socialism, Marxism, leftism, authoritarianism, corporatism, ...) or we do (capitalism).

And capitalism doesn't go out of control, government does. That's what causes corporatism. Corporatism is GOVERNMENT regulation. Cut with the propaganda.

Jessica: Government is too strong, let's make it stronger!!!

 

[kaz]

Elaborate on this "radical leftist agenda" you're speaking of.

Obviously you're not intellectually engaged. Fail

Why can't you answer my question?

You don't know what I'm talking about that the left is consumed with Trump Derangement Syndrome including the people who used to consider themselves "moderate" left? Seriously? That's out of left field to you?

How stupid are you?

So being anti-Trump is "radical leftism"?

I know quite a few Conservatives taht would disagree.

Didn't go to college, did you? That's a non-sequitur.

I said the left is consumed with anti-Trumpism. That doesn't imply other groups are not anti-Trump.

Geez man, seriously? You think that if I say the left is anti-Trump, that means anyone anti-Trump is the left? That's seriously stupid, dude. I hope you were drinking when you wrote that.

kaz: Kittens have fur

theDoctorisIn: Oh yeah, well dogs have fur, don't they! And they aren't kittens! Bam, nailed you kaz!

Yeah, sure, you got me ... You need to stick to surfing porn, brainiac

 

[kaz]

Highly unlikely. They are too cowardly to confront the wackos who now control their party. The last one that tried was Webb and he was immediately kicked to the curb.

In reality, moderate leftism is just a talking point anyway. They don't say what the radical left does, but they are silent on their disagreements with the radical left and they vote for them. There's no actual difference in their vocal positions. The non-left on the board argue all the time with each other. Leftists on the board? Never.

 

[ChrisL]

Can you un-ring the bell?

I doubt it. The Regressive Left has a pretty tight grip on things.

The only hope at this point is a strong, moderate Third Party.
.

I think you are probably the only "moderate" leftist left! Must be lonely there.