Can "Moderate" leftists un-ring the bell?

[kaz]

For those of you who used to consider yourselves moderate leftists, but have been co-opted by Trump Derangement Syndrome into rubber stamping the radical left's agenda, I have a question. Where do you go from here when Trump is gone? Can you un-ring the bell? Can you somehow go back to believing you have moderate positions, not radical left positions as you are supporting now?

Conservatives: masters of the strawman fallacy.

This thread isn't for you, it's for moderate leftists

 

[kaz]

It's impossible answer the OP's question if he can't or won't define this "radical left agenda".

Fair question.

1) The Democrat party platform
2) DNC talking points
3) The position every leftist on the board has every day in every discussion and for the same reason
4) Every position you have on the board every day in every discussion

There you go, four answers that are all exactly the same thing

 

[Mac1958]

Can you un-ring the bell?

I doubt it. The Regressive Left has a pretty tight grip on things.

The only hope at this point is a strong, moderate Third Party.
.

I think you are probably the only "moderate" leftist left! Must be lonely there.

Not fun to watch. It's easier on a local level, much easier.
.

 

[Correll]

open borders

Elaborate on this "radical leftist agenda" you're speaking of.

To be fair, one cannot elaborate on an ‘agenda’ that doesn’t exist.

Well, to be clear, one that is OBVIOUS, is they WANT open borders. They tend to be globalists, they want to dissolve the sovereignty of the US into a global system.

A person would be daft not to see that.

They want the US laws to be preempted by UN codes and laws.

No one advocates for ‘open borders’ – another rightwing lie, another rightwing fallacy.

When we have a border the is so massively, regular and constantly violated,


And you lefties fly into a rage when someone even suggests doing something about that,


your are advocating for an open border.


I do however, believe that you might have so little self awareness that you believe your insane claim.

Hmmm, so tell me how a massive border wall will prevent illegal or overstayed visa holders?

See I am against the wall idea and believe the solution is easier from enforcing existing laws, going after employers and drying up the money that help illegals.

You never stop illegal immigration but you can slow it to a trickle with a invisible wall that uses drones and doing what I just wrote...

1. The Wall is aimed at the approximately half of the illegals that just walk across the border. But you knew that.

2. We have been discussing HOW to address this problem for generations. ALL DISCUSSION is a delaying tactic. NO MORE TALK. DO IT ALL, DO IT NOW. Any position other than ACTION NOW, is supporting the status quo of an Open Border.

 

[ChrisL]

LBGT people are American citizens and such defense shouldn't be considered far left at all as they're people for Christ sakes

For Christ sakes what? Can you give me a subject what you are talking about? Who is somehow harming the LBGT community?

I have quite a few moderate to right wing positions that I believe in. I just think that we should have an safetynet, help the poor and treat people with respect. Is that ok?

Sure, if you want to pay for it. I will contribute too if you come up with an effective program. If you mean rob the rich and enslave the poor as Democrats advocate, I'm out

I believe in the death penalty, I believe in an large amount of capitalism and aint afraid to have a large military for starters.

I am against metoo and blacklivesmatters.

So why are you consumed with Trump Derangement Syndrome then?

1. LBGT people deserve legal protection just like anyone else. They shouldn't be made to feel that they aint welcome within our society either. Freedom is about accepting that not everyone is going to live the way you do. One example is the hatred for trangender people as I believe it is unfounded and needs to stop, while another is the bans on gay adoption of children...Why exactly should anyone be excluded that is a citizen of our country? Some people will even argue that these people shouldn't get medical attention for Pete sakes. It is about human rights and being an society that accepts people as people.

2. We're all better off for having SSI for the old, an educated population(85% of the population get tax payer education) and exist to healthcare for most of our society through medicaid and medicare. Something like 80% of all old people use these programs for nursing home care, etc.A lot of these people would be the poor that are in the gutter if not for these programs as in india and some of the poorer parts of the world. Our economy is far larger for it and our standards of living are higher than most of the world that doesn't have it. I am arguing that it is worth it for me and you to have it.

3. Because of his attacks on human rights as explained in 1. and his disrespect for the poor in my second argument.

Because a person believes that a "transgender" person is confused that does not mean they "hate" them. Get your facts straight. Disagreement and even STRONG disagreement with your ideological ideas does not equal HATE. I don't hate anyone I don't know and have never even SPOKEN to.

As to adoption by gays, they are ALLOWED to adopt children obviously.

People most certainly DO have the right to reject any other person that they do NOT wish to associate with. Rejecting "weirdness" is a basic human self preserving instinct and is not something that you can "program" away.

 

[kaz]

For those of you who used to consider yourselves moderate leftists, but have been co-opted by Trump Derangement Syndrome into rubber stamping the radical left's agenda, I have a question. Where do you go from here when Trump is gone? Can you un-ring the bell? Can you somehow go back to believing you have moderate positions, not radical left positions as you are supporting now?

Conservatives: masters of the strawman fallacy.

It is a reasonable question.


You have taken a position that being Pro Jobs and Pro Borders, is like being an insane Nazi bent on War and possibly nuclear holocaust.


How are you supposed to be taken seriously again?

I am pro-worker and believe in borders. It is an mistake for the democrats to put illegals above the American citizen.

But they do, and the Left is enraged the Trump has dared dissent on that.


Do you think that the Left will be more reasonable with the next Republican President?

Hopefully, the left needs to defend the American worker and human rights of the American citizen as it use to do.

What does that even mean? You are free to fire your employer any time you want and get a better one. That is the only true way to protect employees. As for human rights? You're just drowning in propaganda and you're completely ignorant of the rest of the world.

And government everywhere is the threat to human rights, they are the solution nowhere. You protect human rights by limiting government

 

[kaz]

Highly unlikely. They are too cowardly to confront the wackos who now control their party. The last one that tried was Webb and he was immediately kicked to the curb.

Far from guiltless, democrats are quite a bit LESS corrupt than the current spineless republicans (with a few exceptions).....

Ultimately we are all faced with the choice of voting for the considerably LESSER of the two evils.

Take out Citizen United and install term limits and we will have a better representative government.

Again, this thread isn't for you, it's for moderate leftists

 

[rightwinger]

First I think you’re naive to believe that there are only a few corrupt democrats.

Just for fun.......

View attachment 195351

Funny how it is the Republicans who are most corrupt

 

[kaz]

Democrats welcome moderate leadership

Barack Obama is an example

No, Bill Clinton was a moderate... Obama was progressive and idealist...

How is Obama an progressive? He was pro-business, Pro-corporate bail-out, Pro-wall street, didn't defend the unions and didn't do shit for the American worker. He was so bad on the goddamn issue that union democrats voted for fucking Trump.

The only good thing he did was defend human rights for LBGT people. That was the right thing to do.

Obama was pro-business. You just destroyed any credibility that may have remained. You live in a fantasy world

 

[ChrisL]

Conservatives: masters of the strawman fallacy.

It is a reasonable question.


You have taken a position that being Pro Jobs and Pro Borders, is like being an insane Nazi bent on War and possibly nuclear holocaust.


How are you supposed to be taken seriously again?

I am pro-worker and believe in borders. It is an mistake for the democrats to put illegals above the American citizen.

But they do, and the Left is enraged the Trump has dared dissent on that.


Do you think that the Left will be more reasonable with the next Republican President?

Hopefully, the left needs to defend the American worker and human rights of the American citizen as it use to do.

What does that even mean? You are free to fire your employer any time you want and get a better one. That is the only true way to protect employees. As for human rights? You're just drowning in propaganda and you're completely ignorant of the rest of the world.

And government everywhere is the threat to human rights, they are the solution nowhere. You protect human rights by limiting government

They want "forced equality". You will be FORCED to accept me and my weird quirks or else! Lol.

 

[kaz]

Can you un-ring the bell?

I doubt it. The Regressive Left has a pretty tight grip on things.

The only hope at this point is a strong, moderate Third Party.
.

1) Give me some positions that moderate leftists disagree with the radical left on.

And for those answers to qualify, the moderate leftists have to SAY that to radical leftists. Silent disagreements are irrelevant. Go ahead.

2) Name a few Democrats who are moderate left and what they disagree with radical leftists on.

And don't say anything hand waiving like they are "pro-business." If that's the case, name the POLICIES that make them pro-business. Not just that they don't verbally hate them like the leftist ideologues do.

You can't do it. There is no radical and moderate left. Only radical left

 

[Mac1958]

Can you un-ring the bell?

I doubt it. The Regressive Left has a pretty tight grip on things.

The only hope at this point is a strong, moderate Third Party.
.

1) Give me some positions that moderate leftists disagree with the radical left on.

And for those answers to qualify, the moderate leftists have to SAY that to radical leftists. Silent disagreements are irrelevant. Go ahead.

2) Name a few Democrats who are moderate left and what they disagree with radical leftists on.

And don't say anything hand waiving like they are "pro-business." If that's the case, name the POLICIES that make them pro-business. Not just that they don't verbally hate them like the leftist ideologues do.

You can't do it. There is no radical and moderate left. Only radical left

Great, thanks.
.

 

[kaz]

Democrats welcome moderate leadership

Barack Obama is an example

No, Bill Clinton was a moderate... Obama was progressive and idealist...

Sljck was only moderate in his first term. But yeah

 

[eagle1462010]

Price Tag of Bernie Sanders’s Proposals: $18 Trillion

Democrats can’t win with Bernie Sanders—or without him

The Tea Party of the Left?

“Jesus.” That was the single word a top Democratic operative sent me when I texted her the section of Weaver’s book in which he urges Sanders to run for president again.

“You can’t say your ideology wins if you lose,” notes the Democratic operative, who spoke only on condition of anonymity, for fear that “Bernie Bros”—earnest young men who have taken somewhat too enthusiastically to the prospects of a Sanders revolution—would subject her to a public execution, 280 characters of Twitter buckshot at a time. She argues that Sanders has had little influence on the direction of the Democratic Party: His voice is loud, but in her estimation, many have tuned it out. “They don’t win primaries,” she says of candidates Bernie supports (we spoke before the May results, in which two Sanders-endorsed hopefuls won in Pennsylvania).

Of course, no politician has a perfect record. What’s more intriguing is the manner in which some Sanders-endorsed candidates lose. Take, for example, the Democratic primary for the 3rd Congressional District of Illinois, in the Chicago suburbs. There, Sanders endorsed Marie Newman, the founder of an anti-bullying not-for-profit organization who had never run for elected office before. Newman was challenging incumbent Dan Lipinski, who’d held the seat since 2005. Before that, it belonged to his father. Though a Democrat, Lipinski was a strong opponent of abortion who declined to endorse Obama in 2012.

 

[ChrisL]

Democrats lose it on their social justice issues. MOST people are not voting on transgender, homosexual and abortion issues. These are not issues that effect MOST Americans in their daily lives. JOBS, a good environment for starting and running a business and the economy are what Americans are concerned about.

 

[kaz]

Can you un-ring the bell?

I doubt it. The Regressive Left has a pretty tight grip on things.

The only hope at this point is a strong, moderate Third Party.
.

1) Give me some positions that moderate leftists disagree with the radical left on.

And for those answers to qualify, the moderate leftists have to SAY that to radical leftists. Silent disagreements are irrelevant. Go ahead.

2) Name a few Democrats who are moderate left and what they disagree with radical leftists on.

And don't say anything hand waiving like they are "pro-business." If that's the case, name the POLICIES that make them pro-business. Not just that they don't verbally hate them like the leftist ideologues do.

You can't do it. There is no radical and moderate left. Only radical left

Great, thanks.
.

Exactly as I said, you can't name moderate versus radical left ideas and you can't identify radical and moderate left politicians. If you could, you'd be happy to do that.

There is left. Every one of you has the same position on every issue and for the same reasons.

Here's what a moderate leftist is.

Psst, kaz, I don't agree with the left on wanting to ban guns. Don't tell them I said that ...

 

[eagle1462010]

Democrats lose it on their social justice issues. MOST people are not voting on transgender, homosexual and abortion issues. These are not issues that effect MOST Americans in their daily lives. JOBS, a good environment for starting and running a business and the economy are what Americans are concerned about.

They lost on trade issues with Trump.......and they lost because the public knew the Dems chose a Lying criminal in Hillary that couldn't be trusted...........

The Blue State Unions turned on them when they saw Trump challenge the TPP and unfair Trade practices of China........

They picked the absolute Worst Candidate to run

 

[kaz]

Democrats lose it on their social justice issues. MOST people are not voting on transgender, homosexual and abortion issues. These are not issues that effect MOST Americans in their daily lives. JOBS, a good environment for starting and running a business and the economy are what Americans are concerned about.

Leftists can't give up a cause even when it doesn't exist anymore. LGBT, women, blacks, whites, men, we all have the same rights. Democrats are destroying the country for power continuing to fight a war that doesn't exist.

So they fight for super rights. Women don't just have a right to an abortion, they have the right to make other people pay for them. LGBT have the right to government perks, not just to be left alone. It's never enough

 

[kaz]

It is a reasonable question.


You have taken a position that being Pro Jobs and Pro Borders, is like being an insane Nazi bent on War and possibly nuclear holocaust.


How are you supposed to be taken seriously again?

I am pro-worker and believe in borders. It is an mistake for the democrats to put illegals above the American citizen.

But they do, and the Left is enraged the Trump has dared dissent on that.


Do you think that the Left will be more reasonable with the next Republican President?

Hopefully, the left needs to defend the American worker and human rights of the American citizen as it use to do.

What does that even mean? You are free to fire your employer any time you want and get a better one. That is the only true way to protect employees. As for human rights? You're just drowning in propaganda and you're completely ignorant of the rest of the world.

And government everywhere is the threat to human rights, they are the solution nowhere. You protect human rights by limiting government

They want "forced equality". You will be FORCED to accept me and my weird quirks or else! Lol.

Yes, but you are not forced to accept people for being normal ...

 

[eagle1462010]

The Far left wants Open borders................

They want laws in place that make them citizens ............Blanket Amnesty..........

We want the border Secure...............

Middle Ground is a compromise between the 2............The SNAG...............we refuse any deals that do not secure the border first..............

The far left refuse any deals that don't leave it Open..........

So who here supports the middle Ground were both sides win and both sides lose............as the Founding Fathers Meant it to be.