Can we talk about what Obama actually DID?

[bendog]

Imo, it boils down to "Boehner can't deliver a pizza." He refused to force his party to vote on the senate bill (with 68 votes and that Obama would sign). McConnell's call to wait on the new senate, imo, was simply because he'd have more that 50 votes to pass something called "immigration reform" but wouldn't allow illegal immigrant parents of citizen children to qualify for some legal work permit. That is, the "new" gop plan was to pass something that wasn't really a change in the system, so that the House would approve it. Then, Obama would have vetoed it, and the gop would have said "Gotcha!"

What Obama's done is perhaps humanitarian, but it's not really fixing the system. The only way to fix it is to provide work permits to those whom we need, and punish employers of those who don't have them. People will "self-deport" if they can't find a job and can't get free food.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Great. Obama challenged them to send him a bill. Don't you think that, with their new power, this is the perfect opportunity to lead?

Good for him. Lack of a bill doesn't give him the right to make one himself.

 

[Darkwind]

.
[T]hey have to pass criminal and security background checks, they have to pay taxes and prove their eligibility to stay.

And why, precisely, wouldn't the GOP jump at this opportunity to pass a bill and put it on Obama's desk?

What am I missing?

FACT: Obama is only granting temporary amnesty to a finite group of parents whose children are legal U.S. citizens.

FACT: In exchange for this temporary amnesty, these illegals have to come out of the shadows, pay taxes and render themselves trackable by the US Government (by signing forms and handing over private information). Under the laws of Homeland Security, the high number of undocumented immigrants living in the shadows is considered a threat to national security. (The GOP knows this, and they know the president has to do something about it, and they're hoping that their inaction will force Obama's hand which will give them "red meat" to convince the American people that a democratic president cannot be trusted. This is a sign of their increasing desperation over not being able to win presidential elections).

FACT: Reagan enacted a sweeping (and much larger) overhaul that gave legal status to up to 3 million immigrants without authorization to be in the country, if they had come to the U.S. before 1982.

FACT: In February 1990, President George H.W. Bush, acting through the Immigration and Naturalization Service, established a "family fairness" in which family members living with a legalizing immigrant were granted protection from deportation and authorized to seek employment. The administration estimated up to 1.5 million people would be covered by the policy.

FACT: The GOP will not pass immigration reform because any Republican who is part of any legislation that Obama signs will be destroyed in the next election.

FACT: if the Democrats and Republicans work together to solve this problem, specifically if they send Obama an immigration bill that he can sign, than this would prove that government can (in isolated circumstances) fix problems. However, we know that The GOP cannot allow this to happen because they have created a climate where they lose politically if government solves any problems. The Republican platform is now 100% dominated by one single fact: government is broken and cannot solve any problems. Remember: these people get elected based on the promise that they will obstruct Obama and Government from doing anything, because Government by definition is evil and must be stopped.

FACT: it is in the GOPs interest to do ABSOLUTELY nothing on this issue, thus forcing Obama to bring these people out of the shadows so that they can be taxed and, more importantly, documented & tracked by the Department of Homeland Security. Then, when Obama does what they know he has to do, they can run commercials in 2016 about how Democratic presidents are dictators who don't respect "Borders, Language, Culture".

FACT: They got Obama exactly where they want him.

Your facts are not, and at best, they are twisted for political agendas...D-...

 

[bodecea]

.
[T]hey have to pass criminal and security background checks, they have to pay taxes and prove their eligibility to stay.

And why, precisely, wouldn't the GOP jump at this opportunity to pass a bill and put it on Obama's desk?

What am I missing?

FACT: Obama is only granting temporary amnesty to a finite group of parents whose children are legal U.S. citizens. Reagan did the same thing

FACT: In exchange for this temporary amnesty, these illegals have to come out of the shadows, pay taxes and render themselves trackable by the US Government (by signing forms and handing over private information). Under the laws of Homeland Security, the high number of undocumented immigrants living in the shadows is considered a threat to national security. (The GOP knows this, and they know the president has to do something about it, and they're hoping that their inaction will force Obama's hand which will give them "red meat" to convince the American people that a democratic president cannot be trusted. This is a sign of their increasing desperation over not being able to win presidential elections).

FACT: Reagan enacted a sweeping (and much larger) overhaul that gave legal status to up to 3 million immigrants without authorization to be in the country, if they had come to the U.S. before 1982.

FACT: In February 1990, President George H.W. Bush, acting through the Immigration and Naturalization Service, established a "family fairness" in which family members living with a legalizing immigrant were granted protection from deportation and authorized to seek employment. The administration estimated up to 1.5 million people would be covered by the policy.

FACT: The GOP will not pass immigration reform because any Republican who is part of any legislation that Obama signs will be destroyed in the next election.

FACT: if the Democrats and Republicans work together to solve this problem, specifically if they send Obama an immigration bill that he can sign, than this would prove that government can (in isolated circumstances) fix problems. However, we know that The GOP cannot allow this to happen because they have created a climate where they lose politically if government solves any problems. The Republican platform is now 100% dominated by one single fact: government is broken and cannot solve any problems. Remember: these people get elected based on the promise that they will obstruct Obama and Government from doing anything, because Government by definition is evil and must be stopped.

FACT: it is in the GOPs interest to do ABSOLUTELY nothing on this issue, thus forcing Obama to bring these people out of the shadows so that they can be taxed and, more importantly, documented & tracked by the Department of Homeland Security. Then, when Obama does what they know he has to do, they can run commercials in 2016 about how Democratic presidents are dictators who don't respect "Borders, Language, Culture".

FACT: Game over.

I think they should be registered, photographed, Iris scanned and implanted with microchips, and NEVER allowed to be citizens.

I am fine with them being here working, since so many Americans find work offensive, and are perfectly happy on the dole.

When these hard working, registered and permitted aliens make a lot of money, their citizen kids will probably be Republicans as they watch their tax dollars go to slugs.

Actually sounds like a good idea.

 

[bendog]

.
[T]hey have to pass criminal and security background checks, they have to pay taxes and prove their eligibility to stay.

And why, precisely, wouldn't the GOP jump at this opportunity to pass a bill and put it on Obama's desk?

What am I missing?

FACT: Obama is only granting temporary amnesty to a finite group of parents whose children are legal U.S. citizens. Reagan did the same thing

FACT: In exchange for this temporary amnesty, these illegals have to come out of the shadows, pay taxes and render themselves trackable by the US Government (by signing forms and handing over private information). Under the laws of Homeland Security, the high number of undocumented immigrants living in the shadows is considered a threat to national security. (The GOP knows this, and they know the president has to do something about it, and they're hoping that their inaction will force Obama's hand which will give them "red meat" to convince the American people that a democratic president cannot be trusted. This is a sign of their increasing desperation over not being able to win presidential elections).

FACT: Reagan enacted a sweeping (and much larger) overhaul that gave legal status to up to 3 million immigrants without authorization to be in the country, if they had come to the U.S. before 1982.

FACT: In February 1990, President George H.W. Bush, acting through the Immigration and Naturalization Service, established a "family fairness" in which family members living with a legalizing immigrant were granted protection from deportation and authorized to seek employment. The administration estimated up to 1.5 million people would be covered by the policy.

FACT: The GOP will not pass immigration reform because any Republican who is part of any legislation that Obama signs will be destroyed in the next election.

FACT: if the Democrats and Republicans work together to solve this problem, specifically if they send Obama an immigration bill that he can sign, than this would prove that government can (in isolated circumstances) fix problems. However, we know that The GOP cannot allow this to happen because they have created a climate where they lose politically if government solves any problems. The Republican platform is now 100% dominated by one single fact: government is broken and cannot solve any problems. Remember: these people get elected based on the promise that they will obstruct Obama and Government from doing anything, because Government by definition is evil and must be stopped.

FACT: it is in the GOPs interest to do ABSOLUTELY nothing on this issue, thus forcing Obama to bring these people out of the shadows so that they can be taxed and, more importantly, documented & tracked by the Department of Homeland Security. Then, when Obama does what they know he has to do, they can run commercials in 2016 about how Democratic presidents are dictators who don't respect "Borders, Language, Culture".

FACT: Game over.

I think they should be registered, photographed, Iris scanned and implanted with microchips, and NEVER allowed to be citizens.

I am fine with them being here working, since so many Americans find work offensive, and are perfectly happy on the dole.

When these hard working, registered and permitted aliens make a lot of money, their citizen kids will probably be Republicans as they watch their tax dollars go to slugs.

Actually sounds like a good idea.

hey now, this is not time for rationality. (-:

 

[Darkwind]

.

Boy, I'm really failing to get this conversation going on other threads, so I'll try to start one.

From what I've seen the main takeaway from this act is that most illegals will not be deported if they have not been here long enough; they have to pass criminal and security background checks, they have to pay taxes and prove their eligibility to stay.

Seems like much ado about not that much to me.

I also heard him challenge the GOP Congress to pass a bill that will override this act. So, as I asked on another thread -- don't we all agree that our immigration system is fucked up? Don't we want to fix something that is important and fucked up?

And why, precisely, wouldn't the GOP jump at this opportunity to pass a bill and put it on Obama's desk?

What am I missing?

.

Here is your problem.

We DON'T agree that the immigration system is fucked up.

The system is just fine.

It is the people administering the program that are fucked up. I think we should press criminal charges against them Myself.

If we simply enforced our existing immigration laws, there would be no problem at all.

Well, that is not true Darkwind, we do have problems with our immigration policy and it extends from when Immigration reform was passed under President Reagan. President Reagan's plan had border enforcement and very harsh penalties for American Companies hiring illegals....with his Amnesty.

When the bill finally passed, Congress STRIPPED the hard penalties for employers that hire illegals and didn't fund increased border security for a couple more decades.

THIS is where Reagan's Immigration Reform went wrong....and THIS is why we have more illegals today than ever before....not Reagan's Amnesty....Reagan gives very eloquent reasons why....amnesty was important....but Congress gutting the bill of any teeth to stop illegal immigration from continuing, is where the bill failed us.

Congress needs to put some teeth in an immigration policy that stops illegal immigration from continuing and harsh penalties for employers that hire illegals stops illegal immigration at its ROOT.

These people are coming here to better their lives by getting jobs.

No jobs to be had for new illegals, no one wanting to risk death to cross the border to get here....for no jobs available for them.

1. It was a law written by a Democrat Congress. Calling it Reagan's bill does not lend much in the way of credibility to your argument.

2. There are laws still on the books regarding immigration that predate the 80's amnesty bill, which was to be a "One Time" deal.

So, again, let Me reiterate. Enforce the immigration laws that are on the books, and companies along with border jumpers, get fined, penalized and/or jailed or deported.

The real problem with immigration is its lack of enforcement. Plain and simple.

Start with enforcing current law. Then look at what area's are lacking...

Then...........and get this....


Fix ONLY those areas that are lacking. Like border enforcement and the like.

The bill passed by the Senate is a farce, as is ANY bill that claims to be "comprehensive".

you've misunderstood, Reagan's Proposal on Immigration was GOOD, it had teeth, with its amnesty...

congress chose to STRIP Reagan's Immigration proposal of teeth...

Still, you miss understand. This in no way, prevents other laws (prior laws and existing laws) from being enforced. It is STILL illegal for companies to hire border jumpers. It is STILL illegal for border jumpers to pick produce without a work visa. It is STILL illegal to allow border jumpers to remain in this country.

These laws exist, and CAN be enforced. The fact that they are NOT enforced is the entire problem with our immigration system.

Problems like companies providing incentive for border jumpers to remain hidden in the shadows, taking jobs from US Citizens, can be fixed by simply enforcing existing laws.

Our borders are not secure enough? We don't need an 'comprehensive immigration bill' to cover hit. Enforce current law. Given the very worst case scenario, write a law that enforces the border.

NOTHING ELSE should be in the bill.

Companies finding loopholes to hiring border jumpers? Enforce existing laws. If they are not enough....write a law that jails Executives who bypass the existing law. NOTHING ELSE should be in that bill.

No person not here legally, should be allowed to remain. If they have children born here, give them a Social Security card and tell them to return when they are 18.

Stop breaking up families and deport ALL OF THEM.

Oh, and write a law that does ONLY that, and nothing else.

 

[bendog]

.

Boy, I'm really failing to get this conversation going on other threads, so I'll try to start one.

From what I've seen the main takeaway from this act is that most illegals will not be deported if they have not been here long enough; they have to pass criminal and security background checks, they have to pay taxes and prove their eligibility to stay.

Seems like much ado about not that much to me.

I also heard him challenge the GOP Congress to pass a bill that will override this act. So, as I asked on another thread -- don't we all agree that our immigration system is fucked up? Don't we want to fix something that is important and fucked up?

And why, precisely, wouldn't the GOP jump at this opportunity to pass a bill and put it on Obama's desk?

What am I missing?

.

Here is your problem.

We DON'T agree that the immigration system is fucked up.

The system is just fine.

It is the people administering the program that are fucked up. I think we should press criminal charges against them Myself.

If we simply enforced our existing immigration laws, there would be no problem at all.

Well, that is not true Darkwind, we do have problems with our immigration policy and it extends from when Immigration reform was passed under President Reagan. President Reagan's plan had border enforcement and very harsh penalties for American Companies hiring illegals....with his Amnesty.

When the bill finally passed, Congress STRIPPED the hard penalties for employers that hire illegals and didn't fund increased border security for a couple more decades.

THIS is where Reagan's Immigration Reform went wrong....and THIS is why we have more illegals today than ever before....not Reagan's Amnesty....Reagan gives very eloquent reasons why....amnesty was important....but Congress gutting the bill of any teeth to stop illegal immigration from continuing, is where the bill failed us.

Congress needs to put some teeth in an immigration policy that stops illegal immigration from continuing and harsh penalties for employers that hire illegals stops illegal immigration at its ROOT.

These people are coming here to better their lives by getting jobs.

No jobs to be had for new illegals, no one wanting to risk death to cross the border to get here....for no jobs available for them.

1. It was a law written by a Democrat Congress. Calling it Reagan's bill does not lend much in the way of credibility to your argument.

2. There are laws still on the books regarding immigration that predate the 80's amnesty bill, which was to be a "One Time" deal.

So, again, let Me reiterate. Enforce the immigration laws that are on the books, and companies along with border jumpers, get fined, penalized and/or jailed or deported.

The real problem with immigration is its lack of enforcement. Plain and simple.

Start with enforcing current law. Then look at what area's are lacking...

Then...........and get this....


Fix ONLY those areas that are lacking. Like border enforcement and the like.

The bill passed by the Senate is a farce, as is ANY bill that claims to be "comprehensive".

you've misunderstood, Reagan's Proposal on Immigration was GOOD, it had teeth, with its amnesty...

congress chose to STRIP Reagan's Immigration proposal of teeth...

Still, you miss understand. This in no way, prevents other laws (prior laws and existing laws) from being enforced. It is STILL illegal for companies to hire border jumpers. It is STILL illegal for border jumpers to pick produce without a work visa. It is STILL illegal to allow border jumpers to remain in this country.

These laws exist, and CAN be enforced. The fact that they are NOT enforced is the entire problem with our immigration system.

Problems like companies providing incentive for border jumpers to remain hidden in the shadows, taking jobs from US Citizens, can be fixed by simply enforcing existing laws.

Our borders are not secure enough? We don't need an 'comprehensive immigration bill' to cover hit. Enforce current law. Given the very worst case scenario, write a law that enforces the border.

NOTHING ELSE should be in the bill.

Companies finding loopholes to hiring border jumpers? Enforce existing laws. If they are not enough....write a law that jails Executives who bypass the existing law. NOTHING ELSE should be in that bill.

No person not here legally, should be allowed to remain. If they have children born here, give them a Social Security card and tell them to return when they are 18.

Stop breaking up families and deport ALL OF THEM.

Oh, and write a law that does ONLY that, and nothing else.

Americans are dying to pick the produce.

 

[Claudette]

The Senate passed a bipartisan bill with 68 votes...seriously, in this divided government, 68 votes in the Senate on an immigration bill that the Boehner has refused to allow the full House to vote on...because it will pass. This bill was passed by the Senate over 500 days ago.

I was against it and emailed my rep to oppose it. It doesn't even deal with border security issues.

Yup and thats the problem. It allows illegals to stay but does nothing to stop more from coming across the border.

If Barry wanted to something about immigration he should have built the damned fence with watchtowers and order to shoot at anyone trying to cross. Believe me the rest would get the message.

All he's done is allow millions of illegals to remain int he country. He's kicked in the teeth of all those who came here LEGALLY.

 

[bendog]

The Senate passed a bipartisan bill with 68 votes...seriously, in this divided government, 68 votes in the Senate on an immigration bill that the Boehner has refused to allow the full House to vote on...because it will pass. This bill was passed by the Senate over 500 days ago.

I was against it and emailed my rep to oppose it. It doesn't even deal with border security issues.

Yup and thats the problem. It allows illegals to stay but does nothing to stop more from coming across the border.

If Barry wanted to something about immigration he should have built the damned fence with watchtowers and order to shoot at anyone trying to cross. Believe me the rest would get the message.

All he's done is allow millions of illegals to remain int he country. He's kicked in the teeth of all those who came here LEGALLY.

Obama vetoed a fence?

 

[Redfish]

.

Boy, I'm really failing to get this conversation going on other threads, so I'll try to start one.

From what I've seen the main takeaway from this act is that most illegals will not be deported if they have not been here long enough; they have to pass criminal and security background checks, they have to pay taxes and prove their eligibility to stay.

Seems like much ado about not that much to me.

I also heard him challenge the GOP Congress to pass a bill that will override this act. So, as I asked on another thread -- don't we all agree that our immigration system is fucked up? Don't we want to fix something that is important and fucked up?

And why, precisely, wouldn't the GOP jump at this opportunity to pass a bill and put it on Obama's desk?

What am I missing?

.

he does not have the authority to waive enforcement of the deportation provisions of our immigration laws by executive order.

this was a political move to try to make himself relevant after his party's destruction in the mid term elections.

 

[Redfish]

It does give the GOP an opportunity at least to add or modify some of the conditions. May not go anywhere, but at least maybe a conversation can occur.

What worries me Mac, is with Obama's speech, and this last years wave of kids that came here and are likely to stay, that there is going to now more than ever be the message sent out that if you can get here, you'll likely be able to stay.

We could really be in for a tsunami from the south.

Thanks for the response, for a minute there I thought everyone had me on ignore.

I'm just mystified as to why the GOP doesn't want to just pass a bill. If they're so sure of their positions, why the hell won't they put them in writing?

.

they will, when the new congress convenes in january. obozo jumped the gun in a failed attempt to regain relevancy and stir up his far left base.

 

[Shotgun_Sammy]

Politically it is a clever move. POTUS has boxed the GOP into a corner they should have seen this coming and have known threatening the pres would not work. Basically, you got beat at your own game in a masterful move.

Check- your move GOP. Better think long and hard about your next move. Dummies.

Pass a bill or update the current one and enforce it. POTUS will veto whatever you pass for round 1. Obviously you need to be told this since you missed the last political trick pulled on you. Amateurs.

 

[Redfish]

Politically it is a clever move. POTUS has boxed the GOP into a corner they should have seen this coming and have known threatening the pres would not work. Basically, you got beat at your own game in a masterful move.

Check- your move GOP. Better think long and hard about your next move. Dummies.

Pass a bill or update the current one and enforce it. POTUS will veto whatever you pass for round 1. Obviously you need to be told this since you missed the last political trick pulled on you. Amateurs.

I do agree that it was a good political move, good for obama, bad for the country.

 

[bendog]

It does give the GOP an opportunity at least to add or modify some of the conditions. May not go anywhere, but at least maybe a conversation can occur.

What worries me Mac, is with Obama's speech, and this last years wave of kids that came here and are likely to stay, that there is going to now more than ever be the message sent out that if you can get here, you'll likely be able to stay.

We could really be in for a tsunami from the south.

Thanks for the response, for a minute there I thought everyone had me on ignore.

I'm just mystified as to why the GOP doesn't want to just pass a bill. If they're so sure of their positions, why the hell won't they put them in writing?

.

they will, when the new congress convenes in january. obozo jumped the gun in a failed attempt to regain relevancy and stir up his far left base.

Well, will the Gop now vote to deport people whom Obama gave, at least, temporary orders not to deport? In a nutshell, that's what this is about. Boehner refused to bring up a bill for a vote, that had passed the senate and had Obama's blessing, that did just that.

 

[g5000]

Politically it is a clever move. POTUS has boxed the GOP into a corner they should have seen this coming and have known threatening the pres would not work. Basically, you got beat at your own game in a masterful move.

Check- your move GOP. Better think long and hard about your next move. Dummies.

Pass a bill or update the current one and enforce it. POTUS will veto whatever you pass for round 1. Obviously you need to be told this since you missed the last political trick pulled on you. Amateurs.

Obama signaled very clearly last night he can live with the immigration bill passed by the Senate.

The ball is in the House's court.

 

[JimH52]

.

Boy, I'm really failing to get this conversation going on other threads, so I'll try to start one.

From what I've seen the main takeaway from this act is that most illegals will not be deported if they have not been here long enough; they have to pass criminal and security background checks, they have to pay taxes and prove their eligibility to stay.

Seems like much ado about not that much to me.

I also heard him challenge the GOP Congress to pass a bill that will override this act. So, as I asked on another thread -- don't we all agree that our immigration system is fucked up? Don't we want to fix something that is important and fucked up?

And why, precisely, wouldn't the GOP jump at this opportunity to pass a bill and put it on Obama's desk?

What am I missing?

.

You are correct. The GOP can do away with Obama's executive order quickly just by passing the immigration bill. They can change the flow of support that they are daily losing just by addressing the bill in the House. Will they do it and again show America they can think of country over party? Probably not....

 

[Darkwind]

Politically it is a clever move. POTUS has boxed the GOP into a corner they should have seen this coming and have known threatening the pres would not work. Basically, you got beat at your own game in a masterful move.

Check- your move GOP. Better think long and hard about your next move. Dummies.

Pass a bill or update the current one and enforce it. POTUS will veto whatever you pass for round 1. Obviously you need to be told this since you missed the last political trick pulled on you. Amateurs.

Actually, no.

Now the GOP, when they control both houses, can send to Obama, targeted immigration laws. They will do so in the hundreds and Obama has painted himself so partisan, he'll be forced to veto them.

That means, the voters will now see Obama for what he really is. An obstructionist. A petty person who will not allow any progress in serious issues to go forward.

You see, Obama can have his opinion, and he can use his veto pen, but what he cannot do is claim he is right on every issue.

Because he is not.

 

[Darkwind]

.

Boy, I'm really failing to get this conversation going on other threads, so I'll try to start one.

From what I've seen the main takeaway from this act is that most illegals will not be deported if they have not been here long enough; they have to pass criminal and security background checks, they have to pay taxes and prove their eligibility to stay.

Seems like much ado about not that much to me.

I also heard him challenge the GOP Congress to pass a bill that will override this act. So, as I asked on another thread -- don't we all agree that our immigration system is fucked up? Don't we want to fix something that is important and fucked up?

And why, precisely, wouldn't the GOP jump at this opportunity to pass a bill and put it on Obama's desk?

What am I missing?

.

You are correct. The GOP can do away with Obama's executive order quickly just by passing the immigration bill. They can change the flow of support that they are daily losing just by addressing the bill in the House. Will they do it and again show America they can think of country over party? Probably not....

The bill passed by the Senate is NOT in the best interest of the Country.

 

[g5000]

The Republican Congress will pass amnesty legislation. That is the overwhelming will of the American people.

Some people are having a really hard time accepting that reality. They are ranting and raving from inside a delusional bubble.

 

[Redfish]

.

Boy, I'm really failing to get this conversation going on other threads, so I'll try to start one.

From what I've seen the main takeaway from this act is that most illegals will not be deported if they have not been here long enough; they have to pass criminal and security background checks, they have to pay taxes and prove their eligibility to stay.

Seems like much ado about not that much to me.

I also heard him challenge the GOP Congress to pass a bill that will override this act. So, as I asked on another thread -- don't we all agree that our immigration system is fucked up? Don't we want to fix something that is important and fucked up?

And why, precisely, wouldn't the GOP jump at this opportunity to pass a bill and put it on Obama's desk?

What am I missing?

.

You are correct. The GOP can do away with Obama's executive order quickly just by passing the immigration bill. They can change the flow of support that they are daily losing just by addressing the bill in the House. Will they do it and again show America they can think of country over party? Probably not....

The bill passed by the Senate is NOT in the best interest of the Country.

yes, it does nothing to stop the flow across the border, amend it to include that and it should be a go.