Could Trump Actually Deport 11 Million People?

[JimBowie1958]

here's the rub with Trumps wall ...






he won't be elected potus.

I thought he wasn't going to be nominated.

I did.

 

[ChrisL]

Farmers Finding Few Americans Willing To Do Jobs Immigrants Do

Farmers Finding Few Americans Willing To Do Jobs Immigrants Do

The unemployment rate is above 9% and some people have been out of work for more than a year, but one segment of the economy is finding that there are indeed jobs Americans won’t do:

OLATHE, Colo. — How can there be a labor shortage when nearly one out of every 11 people in the nation are unemployed?

That’s the question John Harold asked himself last winter when he was trying to figure out how much help he would need to harvest the corn and onions on his 1,000-acre farm here in western Colorado.

The simple-sounding plan that resulted — hire more local people and fewer foreign workers — left Mr. Harold and others who took a similar path adrift in a predicament worthy of Kafka.

The more they tried to do something concrete to address immigration and joblessness, the worse off they found themselves.

“It’s absolutely true that people who have played by the rules are having the toughest time of all,” said Senator Michael Bennet, a Democrat from Colorado.

Mr. Harold, a 71-year-old Vietnam War veteran who drifted here in the late ’60s, has participated for about a decade in a federal program called H-2A that allows seasonal foreign workers into the country to make up the gap where willing and able American workers are few in number. He typically has brought in about 90 people from Mexico each year from July through October.

This year, though, with tough times lingering and a big jump in the minimum wage under the program, to nearly $10.50 an hour, Mr. Harold brought in only two-thirds of his usual contingent. The other positions, he figured, would be snapped up by jobless local residents wanting some extra summer cash.

“It didn’t take me six hours to realize I’d made a heck of a mistake,” Mr. Harold said, standing in his onion field on a recent afternoon as a crew of workers from Mexico cut the tops off yellow onions and bagged them.

Six hours was enough, between the 6 a.m. start time and noon lunch break, for the first wave of local workers to quit. Some simply never came back and gave no reason. Twenty-five of them said specifically, according to farm records, that the work was too hard. On the Harold farm, pickers walk the rows alongside a huge harvest vehicle called a mule train, plucking ears of corn and handing them up to workers on the mule who box them and lift the crates, each weighing 45 to 50 pounds.

“It is not an easy job,” said Kerry Mattics, 49, another H-2A farmer here in Olathe, who brought in only a third of his usual Mexican crew of 12 workers for his 50-acre fruit and vegetable farm, then struggled to make it through the season. “It’s outside, so if it’s wet, you’re wet, and if it’s hot you’re hot,” he said.

Still, Mr. Mattics said, he can’t help feeling that people have gotten soft.

“They wanted that $10.50 an hour without doing very much,” he said. “I know people with college degrees, working for the school system and only making 11 bucks.”

This isn’t entirely surprising, of course. We saw the same thing in operation in Georgia earlier this year when a new law aimed at illegal immigrants caused migrant farm workers to flee the state, leaving farmers with crops rotting in the field. When those farmers tried to make alternative arrangements and hire locally, they found very few people willing to do the work, and even fewer who could do the job as quickly and efficiently as the illegal immigrants who used to do it. A similar law enacted in Alabama was seen to have a similar impact on the construction industry.

Immigrants, regardless of their legal status, are uniquely suited for this type of work for many reasons. Farming requires quick action with harvest time comes; crops need to be picked when they’re ready to be picked. Farmers simply can’t afford to wait for apply for a pickers job when they’re not even sure they’ll keep up with it. Migrant workers exist because there’s a market for them. They don’t stay in one place very long (hence the migrant part) because once they’re done picking in one place, they move on to another. That’s why its the kind of job that attracts undocumented immigrants, because most of them don’t have fixed addresses to begin with so the idea of spending the summer traveling the country doesn’t bother them as much as it would the average American worker.

Immigration opponents constantly repeat the refrain that immigrants take jobs away from Americans. In reality, most immigrants are doing jobs that Americans don’t want to do, or that they’d only for for an exorbinantly high rate of pay that would make the price of ordinary goods prohibitively high, thus harming American competitiveness. Today, they’re the people doing things like picking crops in the field or framing houses. A hundred years ago they were mining coal and digging railroad tunnels. They’re willing to do the work because they’re willing to sacrifice to make a better life for themselves and their families. If they were really stealing jobs from Americans, then we’d see some evidence of it. Instead, we get farmers like Mr. Mattics who took a gamble on the idea that out-of-work Americans would be grateful for a chance to work, and lost.

The only reason why SOME (even though some still will and actually DO), is because of the stagnation of wages, having to compete against illegals which allows companies and corporations to pay these illegals less than minimum wage, poor working conditions, no health insurance, and the list goes on.

You are advocating for modern day slavery. Why?

The above meme is what you posted when I first asked you this question.

 

[daws101]

everything I've posted is fact .
on the other hand everything you've posted is crammed full of shoulds ,maybe's , ifs circular logic a false sense of moral superiority false accusations assumptions etc.

Such as? What facts have you provided in this discussion? You can't even state your own position because you don't know why you support illegal immigration. Lol. Clown.

asked and answered.

Clown. LMAO.

best you could do?

Just stating the facts. Everyone knows you're nothing but a clown and a troll.

You also advocate for slave wages and labor.

neither! it's not me whos running around with their pants on fire because they need to impress the audience

 

[ChrisL]

How so? Unless you are trying to convince people that there are no unskilled (or very few unskilled) American workers? Is that what you want people to actually believe? Good Lord, you are even more dumb than I thought.

nope again that all you.
I not trying to convince anyone for any reason .
you are attempting and failing to do that .
speaking of stupid, the point here is even the low and no skill Americans will not take those jobs if there is any other choice.

Then if you aren't trying to convince anyone "for any reason" (whatever that nonsense means), then why are you posting here and advocating for illegal immigration?

Yes, Americans already do these jobs.

I'm not advocating anything

Simple Definition of advocate

• : a person who argues for or supports a cause or policy
  
  
• : a person who works for a cause or group
  
  
• : a person who argues for the cause of another person in a court of law

i'm not doing any of the above.
what I am doing is point out the gaping flaws in your pov.
if you were smart you'd have known the difference.

There are no flaws in my argument. It is a fact that employers in certain industries take advantage of illegal immigrants (because they are not documented) to pay them less than a living wage (or minimum wage) and offer them poor working conditions, no healthcare, etc. because this allows them to make a larger profit. What is untrue about that?

your argument is one big flaw
because it's based on a false and biased premise.
epic fail.

Here, I ask you again and you still don't give an answer as to what you disagree with and why.

 

[Correll]

And let's clear some things up, since my stance seems to be so confusing to some of you. I am neither a liberal nor conservative. I am pro choice, an atheist/agnostic, anti death penalty. I am also pro 2nd amendment (along with ALL constitutional rights for American citizens), anti immigration (because it hurts our economy in more ways than one, and I see the "benefits" as negligible and existing only for a few industries that like to use "slave labor."

I know it's confusing for some of you that I'm not a partisan goon and think for myself, looking at the pros and cons of each individual situation.

I certainly don't support either Trump or Clinton. K?

I've had no trouble following you, or your stance mentioned here.

It is my hope that the constant ridicule you are getting from libs will piss you off by/on election day though...

 

[ChrisL]

It's not false. Low skilled Americans have always done these kinds of jobs. Lol.

nope American stopped doing those jobs in the last century.

Nope, plenty of Americans would do these jobs, just not for slave labor wages and conditions. Employers in certain industries exploit illegal immigrants because of their "illegal" status.

no they would not .
again you are yammering about what they would do if the conditions were better.
try living in reality the conditions are not likely to change anytime soon making your argument invalid.

If they were not hiring illegals (undocumented workers) then this wouldn't be a problem. Why do you advocate for slave labor pay and conditions?

but they are ,again you invalidate your own argument.

Here is your response when I asked you yet again.

 

[ChrisL]

Nope, plenty of Americans would do these jobs, just not for slave labor wages and conditions. Employers in certain industries exploit illegal immigrants because of their "illegal" status.

no they would not .
again you are yammering about what they would do if the conditions were better.
try living in reality the conditions are not likely to change anytime soon making your argument invalid.

If they were not hiring illegals (undocumented workers) then this wouldn't be a problem. Why do you advocate for slave labor pay and conditions?

but they are ,again you invalidate your own argument.

And that is why we are saying that needs to stop. Employers should not be hiring illegal immigrants, and they should be punished harshly for doing so. Agree or disagree?

should is not a valid argument.

Again, here you fail to answer the question. Nope, still haven't answer the question as to what you disagree with above my posts, why you disagree with it, and why do you support illegal immigration . . .

 

[daws101]

Farmers Finding Few Americans Willing To Do Jobs Immigrants Do

Farmers Finding Few Americans Willing To Do Jobs Immigrants Do

The unemployment rate is above 9% and some people have been out of work for more than a year, but one segment of the economy is finding that there are indeed jobs Americans won’t do:

OLATHE, Colo. — How can there be a labor shortage when nearly one out of every 11 people in the nation are unemployed?

That’s the question John Harold asked himself last winter when he was trying to figure out how much help he would need to harvest the corn and onions on his 1,000-acre farm here in western Colorado.

The simple-sounding plan that resulted — hire more local people and fewer foreign workers — left Mr. Harold and others who took a similar path adrift in a predicament worthy of Kafka.

The more they tried to do something concrete to address immigration and joblessness, the worse off they found themselves.

“It’s absolutely true that people who have played by the rules are having the toughest time of all,” said Senator Michael Bennet, a Democrat from Colorado.

Mr. Harold, a 71-year-old Vietnam War veteran who drifted here in the late ’60s, has participated for about a decade in a federal program called H-2A that allows seasonal foreign workers into the country to make up the gap where willing and able American workers are few in number. He typically has brought in about 90 people from Mexico each year from July through October.

This year, though, with tough times lingering and a big jump in the minimum wage under the program, to nearly $10.50 an hour, Mr. Harold brought in only two-thirds of his usual contingent. The other positions, he figured, would be snapped up by jobless local residents wanting some extra summer cash.

“It didn’t take me six hours to realize I’d made a heck of a mistake,” Mr. Harold said, standing in his onion field on a recent afternoon as a crew of workers from Mexico cut the tops off yellow onions and bagged them.

Six hours was enough, between the 6 a.m. start time and noon lunch break, for the first wave of local workers to quit. Some simply never came back and gave no reason. Twenty-five of them said specifically, according to farm records, that the work was too hard. On the Harold farm, pickers walk the rows alongside a huge harvest vehicle called a mule train, plucking ears of corn and handing them up to workers on the mule who box them and lift the crates, each weighing 45 to 50 pounds.

“It is not an easy job,” said Kerry Mattics, 49, another H-2A farmer here in Olathe, who brought in only a third of his usual Mexican crew of 12 workers for his 50-acre fruit and vegetable farm, then struggled to make it through the season. “It’s outside, so if it’s wet, you’re wet, and if it’s hot you’re hot,” he said.

Still, Mr. Mattics said, he can’t help feeling that people have gotten soft.

“They wanted that $10.50 an hour without doing very much,” he said. “I know people with college degrees, working for the school system and only making 11 bucks.”

This isn’t entirely surprising, of course. We saw the same thing in operation in Georgia earlier this year when a new law aimed at illegal immigrants caused migrant farm workers to flee the state, leaving farmers with crops rotting in the field. When those farmers tried to make alternative arrangements and hire locally, they found very few people willing to do the work, and even fewer who could do the job as quickly and efficiently as the illegal immigrants who used to do it. A similar law enacted in Alabama was seen to have a similar impact on the construction industry.

Immigrants, regardless of their legal status, are uniquely suited for this type of work for many reasons. Farming requires quick action with harvest time comes; crops need to be picked when they’re ready to be picked. Farmers simply can’t afford to wait for apply for a pickers job when they’re not even sure they’ll keep up with it. Migrant workers exist because there’s a market for them. They don’t stay in one place very long (hence the migrant part) because once they’re done picking in one place, they move on to another. That’s why its the kind of job that attracts undocumented immigrants, because most of them don’t have fixed addresses to begin with so the idea of spending the summer traveling the country doesn’t bother them as much as it would the average American worker.

Immigration opponents constantly repeat the refrain that immigrants take jobs away from Americans. In reality, most immigrants are doing jobs that Americans don’t want to do, or that they’d only for for an exorbinantly high rate of pay that would make the price of ordinary goods prohibitively high, thus harming American competitiveness. Today, they’re the people doing things like picking crops in the field or framing houses. A hundred years ago they were mining coal and digging railroad tunnels. They’re willing to do the work because they’re willing to sacrifice to make a better life for themselves and their families. If they were really stealing jobs from Americans, then we’d see some evidence of it. Instead, we get farmers like Mr. Mattics who took a gamble on the idea that out-of-work Americans would be grateful for a chance to work, and lost.

The only reason why SOME (even though some still will and actually DO), is because of the stagnation of wages, having to compete against illegals which allows companies and corporations to pay these illegals less than minimum wage, poor working conditions, no health insurance, and the list goes on.

You are advocating for modern day slavery. Why?

The above meme is what you posted when I first asked you this question.

yes it was and I also knew you'd interpret it falsely and you did .
in that meme I am laughing at you (just like now) nothing more was implied .
you being stupid inferred that there was something more to it.
fail.

 

[daws101]

nope American stopped doing those jobs in the last century.

Nope, plenty of Americans would do these jobs, just not for slave labor wages and conditions. Employers in certain industries exploit illegal immigrants because of their "illegal" status.

no they would not .
again you are yammering about what they would do if the conditions were better.
try living in reality the conditions are not likely to change anytime soon making your argument invalid.

If they were not hiring illegals (undocumented workers) then this wouldn't be a problem. Why do you advocate for slave labor pay and conditions?

but they are ,again you invalidate your own argument.

Here is your response when I asked you yet again.

asked and answered .

 

[daws101]

no they would not .
again you are yammering about what they would do if the conditions were better.
try living in reality the conditions are not likely to change anytime soon making your argument invalid.

If they were not hiring illegals (undocumented workers) then this wouldn't be a problem. Why do you advocate for slave labor pay and conditions?

but they are ,again you invalidate your own argument.

And that is why we are saying that needs to stop. Employers should not be hiring illegal immigrants, and they should be punished harshly for doing so. Agree or disagree?

should is not a valid argument.

Again, here you fail to answer the question. Nope, still haven't answer the question as to what you disagree with above my posts, why you disagree with it, and why do you support illegal immigration . . .

asked and answered

 

[ChrisL]

And that is why we are saying that needs to stop. Employers should not be hiring illegal immigrants, and they should be punished harshly for doing so. Agree or disagree?

should is not a valid argument.

alse Oh, avoiding answering. I see. You are just a rotten and dishonest POS through and through. I wouldn't even refer to you as being a person.

that is the answer . just not the one you want to hear.

No, the question was do you agree or disagree? It is a valid question.

nope.
should makes it invalid
here's why :
should
[SHo͝od, SHəd]
VERB

1. used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's actions:

LMAO! Here is your reply after I asked you three more times at least. This is not an answer to the question, "why do YOU support illegal immigration?" Nor is it a reply to what about the facts I've posted do you disagree with specifically.

 

[ChrisL]

Wow! Thanks for showing the true you. Now, you've been outed.

how am I outed ?
nothing I've said is false.

Outed as a rotten POS who wants to use illegals for cheap labor at the cost of American low skilled workers and taxpayers.

You are a traitor.

Yes, the reason that low skill Americans don't do those jobs is because the wages are artificially low due to the importation of illegals to do them

false! the wages are low because the employers want as large a profit as possible .

Here you actually agree with what I've been saying. This is exactly why they hire illegal immigrants. Lol.

 

[daws101]

Illegal Immigrants Don't Lower Our Wages Or Take Our Jobs

Yes they do, as my links show and demonstrate. Not to mention, they hurt Americans in many other ways. Just one of the contributing factors on why our wages are stagnant.

How Unskilled Immigrants Hurt Our Economy

wages are stagnant due to outsourcing jobs that will never be replaced, not aliens taking jobs.

BOth factors put downward pressure on wages.

thanks capt obvious,

 

[Correll]

here's the rub with Trumps wall ...






he won't be elected potus.

I thought he wasn't going to be nominated.

I did.

Sorry, I meant, "you libs" ie siete, told me that he wasn't going to be nominated.

SO why do he think his magic 8 ball is working better now, then it was for that one?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yup because you were being a trolling asshole. This is your life, Correll.

How exactly was I being a troll?

By pointing out that your sexual imagery did not reflect on us, but on you for using it?

That's not being a troll, that's calling you on your homophobic bullshit.

who the fuck is us .?
Jake is talking only to you.
using the imaginary us the same way you use the imaginary we is absolute chicken shit.

He was jumping back and forth from me personally to Trump supporters in general.

In using an accusation of homosexual behavior as a personal smear.

Answer the question.
Stop yammering.

I did you moron.

"Us" = Trump supporters.

That is who Jake was insulting with his homophobic smear.

You smear all the time, so grow up.

You play stupid, you get dealt with.

Just be nice.

 

[ChrisL]

She's been posting more links with more supported information than anyone else in this thread.

You claim she has no argument is utterly ridiculous.

BullShit for every link she's posted I've posted two refuting it .
count them. slapdick.

Lol! You have not. You've posted "talking points" from your party. You are a partisan hack, only capable of parroting your party's talking points without giving it any though as to the "why." You are a douche.

not the talking points ploy again!
classic indication of desperation.

The only one desperate here is you.

Why do you advocate for illegal and undocumented people to be in this country?

never said or implied I did .
and I'm not advocating just stating fact ,a concept that's appears to be beyond your capacity to understand.

Again, you haven't answered the questions posted. Are you trying to say here that you do NOT support illegal immigration?

BTW, your grammar is horrible and your posts are barely intelligible. Lol.

 

[daws101]

Wow! Thanks for showing the true you. Now, you've been outed.

how am I outed ?
nothing I've said is false.

Outed as a rotten POS who wants to use illegals for cheap labor at the cost of American low skilled workers and taxpayers.

You are a traitor.

Yes, the reason that low skill Americans don't do those jobs is because the wages are artificially low due to the importation of illegals to do them

false! the wages are low because the employers want as large a profit as possible .

Here you actually agree with what I've been saying. This is exactly why they hire illegal immigrants. Lol.

true! never said you were wrong all the time .just when it's important. Note the distinction .

 

[georgephillip]

Even Trump's biggest competitors in business dealings with him will tell anyone: "When Trump says he's going to do something you can count on him doing it".

Can you supply a link for that claim?

 

[ChrisL]

There is no rhyme or reason to back illegal immigration. It's not good for the illegal immigrants. It's not good for the American people. What are the "plus sides?" That you save money on your fruit and veggies or cleaning ladies?

real life often has no rhyme or reason.

Another obvious attempt to avoid answering the questions posed to you. I'm still looking for where you answered any questions in a coherent manner. Not finding any.

 

[Correll]

Illegal Immigrants Don't Lower Our Wages Or Take Our Jobs

Yes they do, as my links show and demonstrate. Not to mention, they hurt Americans in many other ways. Just one of the contributing factors on why our wages are stagnant.

How Unskilled Immigrants Hurt Our Economy

wages are stagnant due to outsourcing jobs that will never be replaced, not aliens taking jobs.

BOth factors put downward pressure on wages.

thanks capt obvious,

Siete just denied that "aliens taking jobs" cause wage stagnation.

I was pointing out, that both factors contribute, that it is not an either or.

You just agreed with me.

It was not obvious to siete.

So, save your snark for him.