Zone1 Do you ever feel that God needs to go Old Testament again... LOL

[WinterBorn]

Don't you believe that morals are human constructs? That morals can be anything man says it is as long as the majority say it?

Haven't they already done so? By any standard of morality, murder is one of the most severe. Our gov't (us by proxy) does it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So morals, which you believe are based upon reason, must be absolute, right?

I didn't say anything that even remotely implies that.

You're trying pretty hard to construct some low hanging fruit for yourself.

 

[ding]

Haven't they already done so? By any standard of morality, murder is one of the most severe. Our gov't (us by proxy) does it.

The thing is even when things were considered moral by the majority, there were those who disagreed. So I don't believe morals can be anything man says they are. I believe that morals are based upon logical reasons not by what man says or thinks they are.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So I don't believe morals can be anything man says they are.

Well they are. All you can do is agree or disagree with them And argue why you are correct.

That's when possessing some objective knowledge can come in handy.

 

[ding]

I didn't say anything that even remotely implies that.

You're trying pretty hard to construct some low hanging fruit for yourself.

I'm trying to get you to say if you think morals are absolute or relative. You seem to be arguing that morals are based upon reason. That morals are independent of what man says they are.

So I am asking you if you believe that morals are absolute or relative?

 

[ding]

Well they are. All you can do is agree or disagree with them And argue why you are correct.

That's when possessing some objective knowledge can come in handy.

If morals are based upon reason, then it is logic that determines morality, not men. Feel free to disagree. But remember, you are the one who says he believes morals are based upon reason.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

When this type of discussion arises, it's always easy to tell who has had college intstruction in ethics and who has not.

And those are the generally the people who you don't want to trust to dictate morals or ethics to you.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If morals are based upon reason, then it is logic that determines morality, not men.

Wrong of course. I can use a valid argument to conclude the moon is made of cheese. Logic is a set of operators. Not a set of facts or beliefs.

 

[ding]

When this type of discussion arises, it's always easy to tell who has had college intstruction in ethics and who has not.

And those are the generally the people who you don't want to trust to dictate morals or ethics to you.

Duse, I'm asking simple and fair questions. It seems that you believe morals are based upon reason and logic. Is reason and logic relative or absolute?

 

[ding]

Wrong of course. I can use a valid argument to conclude the moon is made of cheese. Logic is a set of operators. Not a set of facts or beliefs.

That would be flawed logic though. So I will ask you again... do you believe morals are based upon reason? And if so, do you believe reason is subjective or absolute. And please don't use flawed reasoning and flawed logic to prove that reason and logic are subjective. Because everyone knows that logic and reason are independent of what man wants them to be.

 

[ding]

I'm getting the feeling that FF doesn't like the logical conclusion of believing that morals are based upon reason and logic.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It seems that you believe morals are based upon reason and logic.

I think they CAN be.

Swatting away your strawmen and fallacies is a full time job, ding!

Why are you like this? Any of us would sooner win the lottery than have an honest discussion with you.

 

[ding]

I think they CAN be.

Swatting away your strawmen and fallacies is a full time job, ding!

Can you give an example of sound logic and sound reason that is relative and not absolute in its conclusion?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That would be flawed logic though

100% wrong.

It's also easy to see who has not taken any courses involving logic.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Can you give an example of sound logic and sound reason that is relative and not absolute in its conclusion?

I said valid.

One post, one strawman.

The streak stays alive.

 

[ding]

100% wrong.

It's also easy to see who has not taken any courses involving logic.

Really? You claimed you could make a valid argument that the moon is made of cheese. Let's hear it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Really? You claimed you could make a valid argument that the moon is made of cheese. Let's hear it.

That's right. I have taught you this more than once. I think I will let you go look up these terms for yourself, so that you will maybe retain the knowledge.

 

[ding]

I said valid.

One post, one strawman.

The streak stays alive.

So valid arguments aren't sound arguments. Do you make it a habit to use logic to prove things that aren't sound?

 

[ding]

That's right. I have taught you this more than once. I think I will let you go look up these terms for yourself, so that you will maybe retain the knowledge.

I'm not the one who has been caught in the snare, bro.

So... can you explain to me how logic and reason are subjective and not objective?

Are you in the habit of making untruthful logical arguments? You know... like the moon is made of cheese?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So valid arguments aren't sound arguments. Do you make it a habit to use logic to prove things that aren't sound?

Irrelevant.