Do you really want to go to "Heaven" when you die?

[hobelim]

Why would you want to spend eternity with that murdering tyrant anyways?
Fuck that.

Who wants to spend all of eternity with no one but themselves?

You don't get it. They don't believe in eternity, they don't believe in hell, and they don't care about what you believe. Shit, even the Pope doesn't believe in hell as an afterlife place of eternal torment.

They think that they will spend eternity in nothingness..like a dried up turd that disappears forever..

And I'm sure that a just and merciful God will let them have their way....


Hell, like a final warning, is the experience of people on their way to destruction. Their problem like a rat that stumbled and fell into a smoldering garbage pit is they think they have found paradise.

You don't get it. They don't believe in eternity, they don't believe in hell, and they don't care about what you believe.

If you are talking about our friends the militant atheists. Yes.

Shit, even the Pope doesn't believe in hell as an afterlife place of eternal torment.

I disagree. I would say that spending eternity all alone with full consciousness would feel like being in a fire which does not consume.

They think that they will spend eternity in nothingness..like a dried up turd that disappears forever..

They are close to being correct. They will spend an eternity in nothingness but they will be conscious through out it and all alone.

And I'm sure that a just and merciful God will let them have their way....

Yes, he will let them have exactly what they wished for, to be left alone.

Hell, like a final warning, is the experience of people on their way to destruction. Their problem like a rat that stumbled and fell into a smoldering garbage pit is they think they have found paradise.

God does not destroy what he creates.

God does not destroy what he creates? Correct! He extirpates that which was not planted by him.

That puts you at risk.

"What is going to happen is, as it were, that all iniquity is going to be shut up in the womb and prevented from coming to birth. Wrong is going to depart before Right, as darkness departs before light. As smoke disappears and is no more, so will Wrong disappear for ever. But Right will be revealed like the sun. The world will rest on a sound foundation. All who cling to rarefied arcane lore will cease to exist. The world will be filled with knowledge, and ignorance will exist no more. The thing is certain to come. "

 

[hobelim]

Who knows? Certainly not you. Heaven is nothing more than being eternally joined to the creator. Hell is nothing more than being eternally separated from the creator. If anyone reads anything more than that into it they are lying. They don't have a clue.

My best guess is that the level you experience that union is dependent on how you lived your life.

But none of that really matters except to people like you. Who harp on it instead of focusing on what the wisdom of the Bible teaches. The Bible is effectively a how to book. How to live and how not to live. So while you are busy focusing on the outcome - which is a fools errand - I am focusing on living. Maybe you should try that.

The wisdom of the Bible?

Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

This is why white Republicans support slavery:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.(Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Bible wisdom. Scary.

No scary words from Jesus?

Interesting.

According to Jesus Moses made certain rules for the people because their minds were closed. Misinterpret his meaning and the next thing you know people are mutilating their own penises for thousands of years.

Apparently God has a messed up sense of humor.



"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again."


Like when searching for gold, when searching for wisdom from God you have to sort through a lot of crap and take great care in how you interpret what you read as if you were searching for hidden manna in a booby trapped building.

Take my advice, don't try and be clever. Whether you are seeking to prove or disprove the bible, one wrong move and its curtains.

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Teach these truths, Timothy.

Who is talking to Timothy?

And he's saying be a good slave?

Think it through.

Good questions. I have thought it through. Paul seems to contradict Jesus on many issues foundational to salvation.

That leaves two possibilities. Either Paul was a deceiver, deliberately hijacking the cult to put pharisaic misogynistic and homophobic judgments into the mouth of Jesus to spread among the gentiles not to mention blasphemy virtually eliminating the possibility that any rational Jew would ever give two thoughts to Jesus or christianity..

And since his letters were mostly written in roman jails, it is also possible that his letters were redacted before delivery to favor the empire by making suffering poverty and subservience a virtue......with or without his consent. Who knows what torture he may have been subjected to.

Maybe all of the above.


Either way, most of what was written in his name is at best highly suspect.

There’s a third way, you were conned into believing a book of fiction.

Whether you are believer or unbeliever in a book is irrelevant, .....It about what you are doing with the gift of life. Ding uses it for deception, you use it for derision.. He is becoming a serpent, you have become a fool.

I wasn't conned into believing anything by anyone.

I see what you are doing and the damage done.

Actual reality is by far more bizarre than any fairy tale ever imagined.


I see dead people everywhere. Walking around like regular people. They can't see each other. They see only what they want to see. They don't know that they're dead.

 

[Taz]

The wisdom of the Bible?

Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

This is why white Republicans support slavery:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.(Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Bible wisdom. Scary.

No scary words from Jesus?

Interesting.

According to Jesus Moses made certain rules for the people because their minds were closed. Misinterpret his meaning and the next thing you know people are mutilating their own penises for thousands of years.

Apparently God has a messed up sense of humor.



"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again."


Like when searching for gold, when searching for wisdom from God you have to sort through a lot of crap and take great care in how you interpret what you read as if you were searching for hidden manna in a booby trapped building.

Take my advice, don't try and be clever. Whether you are seeking to prove or disprove the bible, one wrong move and its curtains.

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Teach these truths, Timothy.

Who is talking to Timothy?

And he's saying be a good slave?

Think it through.

Good questions. I have thought it through. Paul seems to contradict Jesus on many issues foundational to salvation.

That leaves two possibilities. Either Paul was a deceiver, deliberately hijacking the cult to put pharisaic misogynistic and homophobic judgments into the mouth of Jesus to spread among the gentiles not to mention blasphemy virtually eliminating the possibility that any rational Jew would ever give two thoughts to Jesus or christianity..

And since his letters were mostly written in roman jails, it is also possible that his letters were redacted before delivery to favor the empire by making suffering poverty and subservience a virtue......with or without his consent. Who knows what torture he may have been subjected to.

Maybe all of the above.


Either way, most of what was written in his name is at best highly suspect.

There’s a third way, you were conned into believing a book of fiction.

Whether you are believer or unbeliever in a book is irrelevant, .....It about what you are doing with the gift of life. Ding uses it for deception, you use it for derision.. He is becoming a serpent, you have become a fool.

I wasn't conned into believing anything by anyone.

I see what you are doing and the damage done.

Actual reality is by far more bizarre than any fairy tale ever imagined.


I see dead people everywhere. Walking around like regular people. They can't see each other. They see only what they want to see. They don't know that they're dead.

Can you see your own reflection in a mirror?

 

[Slyhunter]

Regardless to your individual beliefs, what will happen will happen, whatever that may be.

 

[MarathonMike]

Why would biological pleasures matter in the afterlife? It would be more interesting to enter a plane of existence unbounded by physical limits, time or space. Rewards in Heaven for acts during biological life are a carrot dangling on a stick. E.G. you get 72 Virgins if you die as a Martyr for Allah. I mean really, how stupid is that?

 

[deanrd]

So that's how it works? You can do every despicable thing in the world, rape, murder, torture and all you have to do is say "I'm sorry" just before you die and God welcomes you into Heaven?
I think God would judge you more by your heart than trickery.
Republicans would never understand.

Who knows? Certainly not you. Heaven is nothing more than being eternally joined to the creator. Hell is nothing more than being eternally separated from the creator. If anyone reads anything more than that into it they are lying. They don't have a clue.

My best guess is that the level you experience that union is dependent on how you lived your life.

But none of that really matters except to people like you. Who harp on it instead of focusing on what the wisdom of the Bible teaches. The Bible is effectively a how to book. How to live and how not to live. So while you are busy focusing on the outcome - which is a fools errand - I am focusing on living. Maybe you should try that.

The wisdom of the Bible?

Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

This is why white Republicans support slavery:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.(Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Bible wisdom. Scary.

No scary words from Jesus?

Interesting.

According to Jesus Moses made certain rules for the people because their minds were closed. Misinterpret his meaning and the next thing you know people are mutilating their own penises for thousands of years.

Apparently God has a messed up sense of humor.



"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again."


Like when searching for gold, when searching for wisdom from God you have to sort through a lot of crap and take great care in how you interpret what you read as if you were searching for hidden manna in a booby trapped building.

Take my advice, don't try and be clever. Whether you are seeking to prove or disprove the bible, one wrong move and its curtains.

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Teach these truths, Timothy.

Who is talking to Timothy?

And he's saying be a good slave?

Think it through.

Good questions. I have thought it through. Paul seems to contradict Jesus on many issues foundational to salvation.

That leaves two possibilities. Either Paul was a deceiver, deliberately hijacking the cult to put pharisaic misogynistic and homophobic judgments into the mouth of Jesus to spread among the gentiles not to mention blasphemy virtually eliminating the possibility that any rational Jew would ever give two thoughts to Jesus or christianity..

And since his letters were mostly written in roman jails, it is also possible that his letters were redacted before delivery to favor the empire by making suffering poverty and subservience a virtue......with or without his consent. Who knows what torture he may have been subjected to.

Maybe all of the above.


Either way, most of what was written in his name is at best highly suspect.

But

but

but

but

but the Bible is the word of God. It's perfect. It's why Republicans want to murder all the gays. Now you are saying there are inconsistencies? No, no, no, it can't be true!!!!

 

[RWS]

I try to live a good life.

I don't know what happens after.

When I die, I expect that my lack of religion should not matter in judjement. In case a religion is true....

Just live good lives and enjoy yourselves while you're here. Without harming others. And if there is an afterlife, you're good. And if there isn't....

Well at least you didn't waste time diddling with nonsense.

 

[hobelim]

Who knows? Certainly not you. Heaven is nothing more than being eternally joined to the creator. Hell is nothing more than being eternally separated from the creator. If anyone reads anything more than that into it they are lying. They don't have a clue.

My best guess is that the level you experience that union is dependent on how you lived your life.

But none of that really matters except to people like you. Who harp on it instead of focusing on what the wisdom of the Bible teaches. The Bible is effectively a how to book. How to live and how not to live. So while you are busy focusing on the outcome - which is a fools errand - I am focusing on living. Maybe you should try that.

The wisdom of the Bible?

Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

This is why white Republicans support slavery:

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.(Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Bible wisdom. Scary.

No scary words from Jesus?

Interesting.

According to Jesus Moses made certain rules for the people because their minds were closed. Misinterpret his meaning and the next thing you know people are mutilating their own penises for thousands of years.

Apparently God has a messed up sense of humor.



"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, buried it again."


Like when searching for gold, when searching for wisdom from God you have to sort through a lot of crap and take great care in how you interpret what you read as if you were searching for hidden manna in a booby trapped building.

Take my advice, don't try and be clever. Whether you are seeking to prove or disprove the bible, one wrong move and its curtains.

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

Teach these truths, Timothy.

Who is talking to Timothy?

And he's saying be a good slave?

Think it through.

Good questions. I have thought it through. Paul seems to contradict Jesus on many issues foundational to salvation.

That leaves two possibilities. Either Paul was a deceiver, deliberately hijacking the cult to put pharisaic misogynistic and homophobic judgments into the mouth of Jesus to spread among the gentiles not to mention blasphemy virtually eliminating the possibility that any rational Jew would ever give two thoughts to Jesus or christianity..

And since his letters were mostly written in roman jails, it is also possible that his letters were redacted before delivery to favor the empire by making suffering poverty and subservience a virtue......with or without his consent. Who knows what torture he may have been subjected to.

Maybe all of the above.


Either way, most of what was written in his name is at best highly suspect.

But

but

but

but

but the Bible is the word of God. It's perfect. It's why Republicans want to murder all the gays. Now you are saying there are inconsistencies? No, no, no, it can't be true!!!!

Get out of here! Republicans take it literally? All of them? All of it it? Hook line and sinker?? lol..damn...In this day and age? Wow. They want to persecute gays? Thats what they get out of the stories? Astonishing! No inconsistencies in the bible even though inconsistencies and contradictions are obvious and were intentionally included to raise questions that inspire deeper thought?

Copra sanctum! er., holy shit!

If someone doesn't have the honesty integrity or intelligence to notice or admit that there are inconsistencies in the Bible they probably shouldn't be in charge of anything resembling public office....but that just my opinion. lol..

Seriously, if they can't get something as important as the Bible correct, The very Word of God, how could they possibly be trusted to be right about any less important issue?

If they don't know the truth, they can't know what is right and they will never speak the truth nor do what is right.

Looks like the people have lost their way, electing hypocrites, morons, and despicable low-lifes to lead them.

Its probably a good time to clean house....either that or we could all sit around hold hands, sing kumbaya, and pray..

That ought to help...

 

[hobelim]

Why would biological pleasures matter in the afterlife? It would be more interesting to enter a plane of existence unbounded by physical limits, time or space. Rewards in Heaven for acts during biological life are a carrot dangling on a stick. E.G. you get 72 Virgins if you die as a Martyr for Allah. I mean really, how stupid is that?

More stupid than believing that God is edible, became a human being, or that a person can become holy as God is holy by eating or abstaining from certain food?

Or just as stupid?

 

[Taz]

Why would biological pleasures matter in the afterlife? It would be more interesting to enter a plane of existence unbounded by physical limits, time or space. Rewards in Heaven for acts during biological life are a carrot dangling on a stick. E.G. you get 72 Virgins if you die as a Martyr for Allah. I mean really, how stupid is that?

More stupid than believing that God is edible, became a human being, or that a person can become holy as God is holy by eating or abstaining from certain food?

Or just as stupid?

Almost as dumb as writing about a worldwide flood that everyone now says never happened.

 

[Taz]

Its probably a good time to clean house....either that or we could all sit around hold hands, sing kumbaya, and pray..

That ought to help...

So you're asking god to murder everyone again? Are you building a boat? No, wait, that never happened. So how are you going to be spared?

 

[ding]

I try to live a good life.

I don't know what happens after.

When I die, I expect that my lack of religion should not matter in judjement. In case a religion is true....

Just live good lives and enjoy yourselves while you're here. Without harming others. And if there is an afterlife, you're good. And if there isn't....

Well at least you didn't waste time diddling with nonsense.

Or see how you were being pruned and had peace through the storm.

Proving yet again that you don't understand that it is about living and not death.

 

[ding]

Regardless to your individual beliefs, what will happen will happen, whatever that may be.

Thus proving that the message of life is lost on you because you think the message is about the afterlife and not this life. smh

 

[ding]

Why would you want to spend eternity with that murdering tyrant anyways?
Fuck that.

Who wants to spend all of eternity with no one but themselves?

You don't get it. They don't believe in eternity, they don't believe in hell, and they don't care about what you believe. Shit, even the Pope doesn't believe in hell as an afterlife place of eternal torment.

They think that they will spend eternity in nothingness..like a dried up turd that disappears forever..

And I'm sure that a just and merciful God will let them have their way....


Hell, like a final warning, is the experience of people on their way to destruction. Their problem like a rat that stumbled and fell into a smoldering garbage pit is they think they have found paradise.

You don't get it. They don't believe in eternity, they don't believe in hell, and they don't care about what you believe.

If you are talking about our friends the militant atheists. Yes.

Shit, even the Pope doesn't believe in hell as an afterlife place of eternal torment.

I disagree. I would say that spending eternity all alone with full consciousness would feel like being in a fire which does not consume.

They think that they will spend eternity in nothingness..like a dried up turd that disappears forever..

They are close to being correct. They will spend an eternity in nothingness but they will be conscious through out it and all alone.

And I'm sure that a just and merciful God will let them have their way....

Yes, he will let them have exactly what they wished for, to be left alone.

Hell, like a final warning, is the experience of people on their way to destruction. Their problem like a rat that stumbled and fell into a smoldering garbage pit is they think they have found paradise.

God does not destroy what he creates.

God does not destroy what he creates? Correct! He extirpates that which was not planted by him.

That puts you at risk.

"What is going to happen is, as it were, that all iniquity is going to be shut up in the womb and prevented from coming to birth. Wrong is going to depart before Right, as darkness departs before light. As smoke disappears and is no more, so will Wrong disappear for ever. But Right will be revealed like the sun. The world will rest on a sound foundation. All who cling to rarefied arcane lore will cease to exist. The world will be filled with knowledge, and ignorance will exist no more. The thing is certain to come. "

God does not destroy what he creates? Correct! He extirpates that which was not planted by him.

Everything was planted by him. Extirpate means to root out; to completely destroy. You contradicted yourself.

That puts you at risk.

No one knows their fate. Not me. Not you. Not anyone. We won't know our fate until judgement day. I worry about my soul everyday. You should do the same. We all should. It is the best way to get the most out of ourselves in this world.

"What is going to happen is, as it were, that all iniquity is going to be shut up in the womb and prevented from coming to birth. Wrong is going to depart before Right, as darkness departs before light. As smoke disappears and is no more, so will Wrong disappear for ever. But Right will be revealed like the sun. The world will rest on a sound foundation. All who cling to rarefied arcane lore will cease to exist. The world will be filled with knowledge, and ignorance will exist no more. The thing is certain to come. "

You should have quoted your source, "Hell: An Exhaustive Look at a Burning Issue." I'm sure Dr. Woodcock was a good man, but if he believes that God destroys what he creates, he is wrong. Of course it is entirely possible that he doesn't mean that God will destroy what he creates when he says "All who cling to rarefied arcane lore will cease to exist." It could mean that he believes God is existence, which he is, and that at judgement that he will grant the wishes of those that do not want to be with him, which he will, and that means they cease to exist with existence. But in no way does it mean that they will be destroyed. They will exist apart from God. Only then will they realize what they have lost.

 

[RWS]

I try to live a good life.

I don't know what happens after.

When I die, I expect that my lack of religion should not matter in judjement. In case a religion is true....

Just live good lives and enjoy yourselves while you're here. Without harming others. And if there is an afterlife, you're good. And if there isn't....

Well at least you didn't waste time diddling with nonsense.

Or see how you were being pruned and had peace through the storm.

Proving yet again that you don't understand that it is about living and not death.

Well, actually, no...

Religion is about death. And making sure you adhere to all the principles and obey all the rulers and the rules, so you can hopefully make it to heaven when you die. Especially if you die in the name of your religion.

I'm about life, dude. Living a good life. Doing "what Jesus would do". I don't give a shit about death. Can't spend time worrying about that when there's so much to worry about in life.

If that's good enough for heaven, should it exist, then cool. If not, then fuck 'em. They don't deserve me....

 

[hobelim]

Everything was planted by him. Extirpate means to root out; to completely destroy. You contradicted yourself.

He answered, "Any plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted. matthew 15:13

 

[MarathonMike]

Why would biological pleasures matter in the afterlife? It would be more interesting to enter a plane of existence unbounded by physical limits, time or space. Rewards in Heaven for acts during biological life are a carrot dangling on a stick. E.G. you get 72 Virgins if you die as a Martyr for Allah. I mean really, how stupid is that?

More stupid than believing that God is edible, became a human being, or that a person can become holy as God is holy by eating or abstaining from certain food?

Or just as stupid?

Well, the thread is about Heaven but yes there are many aspects of formal religion that seem odd. I know a lot of very devout people so I don't want to ridicule their faith.

Religion is full of odd rituals but the concept of Heaven and Hell has been used for centuries as a means to fill the pews and offering plates.

 

[hobelim]

No one knows their fate. Not me. Not you. Not anyone. We won't know our fate until judgement day. I worry about my soul everyday. You should do the same. We all should. It is the best way to get the most out of ourselves in this world.

The judgements of God have been revealed from the beginning. Do this, don't do that. If you do this you will live, do that and you will surely die.

If you worry about your soul every day maybe you should stop perjuring yourself in the name of God every day..

 

[ding]

I try to live a good life.

I don't know what happens after.

When I die, I expect that my lack of religion should not matter in judjement. In case a religion is true....

Just live good lives and enjoy yourselves while you're here. Without harming others. And if there is an afterlife, you're good. And if there isn't....

Well at least you didn't waste time diddling with nonsense.

Or see how you were being pruned and had peace through the storm.

Proving yet again that you don't understand that it is about living and not death.

Well, actually, no...

Religion is about death. And making sure you adhere to all the principles and obey all the rulers and the rules, so you can hopefully make it to heaven when you die. Especially if you die in the name of your religion.

I'm about life, dude. Living a good life. Doing "what Jesus would do". I don't give a shit about death. Can't spend time worrying about that when there's so much to worry about in life.

If that's good enough for heaven, should it exist, then cool. If not, then fuck 'em. They don't deserve me....

No. Religion is about teaching morality and civility; in the present. It does that by teaching us to have a relationship with God which alters the fabric of our identity; in the present.

You want to believe that religion is about death to confirm your bias.

You are so much about life that you are focusing on a discussion about death.

 

[ding]

Everything was planted by him. Extirpate means to root out; to completely destroy. You contradicted yourself.

He answered, "Any plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted. matthew 15:13

1. You don't believe in scripture.
2. Uprooted does not mean destroy.
3. God does not destroy what he created.
4. Everything God created was good.
5. Evil is not extant.
6. Evil is the absence of good.