Dont blame Cruz

[eagle1462010]

Chart: Comparing Health Reform Bills: Democrats and Republicans 2009, Republicans 1993 - Kaiser Health News

Comparison chart from the different proposals back then.

So how the hell is Kaiser doing a damn comparison if there wasn't any alternatives..................

 

[Mac1958]

http://rsc.scalise.house.gov/uploadedfiles/bill_american_health_care_reform_act.pdf

A family of 4 would get a tax deduction up to 20,000 dollars for health care.

7,500 for an individual

High risk pools to get Federal Subsidies for those with Pre-existing conditions.
Targetting one of the areas that raises rates.

Across State lines, allowing competition with insurance companies throughout the country.

Allows Small Businesses to POOL TOGETHER thus allowing them to bargain as large corps and Unions do already.

Tort reform, that limits awards to Lawyers, yet still allows those wronged to get fair compensation. Another area that drives up costs..............

And so on...................The same dang things the GOP asked for during the ACA discussions as it was being passed.

There is NO Part Time Rule in the dang thing, the law applies to all. No exceptions. No favortism.

And the whole bill is only 188 pages long.

We wouldn't need to hire another 200,000 Federal Workers either.

Republicans Release Their Own Health Care System Reform Bill - Kaiser Health News

2009 proposals.

Great! Then why aren't the Republicans screaming about this at every opportunity, instead of just saying "no"?

Does this party have any idea of the value of messaging, any at all?

Would that not be the obvious and intellgent thing to do? Am I missing something?

What are they afraid of?

I think the ACA is a steaming pile of shit, too. But the GOP has done an incredibly lousy job at putting a clear alternative in front of the American people, and they don't need Obama's approval to do it. Someone over there has dropped the ball, big time, and now here we are.

That was my original point.

.

 

[velvtacheeze]

Canadian-born Cruz's hamhanded attempts to defund Obamacare are laughable. GOP House members are calling him a fraud and a liar. Cruz is now calling for the GOP Senate to filibuster the law that the House passed. Think about that. Cruz insisted the House pass it, now Cruz is insisting that the GOP filibustered in the Senate.

This isn't a parliamentary system, like in his homeland.

 

[deltex1]

There is total confusion on the value of Obamacare...in the meantime it is disrupting the economy. It is a law voted into being on a partisan basis. The only thing that can be said in its defense is that it is like social security and medicare...resisted at first but now acceopted by all. No mention is made that these programs are bankrupting our country...and Obamacare could push us over the edge...we are headed in the wrong direction. Look at it this way....what has Obama been right about so far?????

You are wrong on one account, and right on another. First off, NOTHING can be said in defense of odumbocare, and it is *NOT* now "accepted," or ACCEOPTED for that matter, "by all," the MAJORITY of America STILL OPPOSES it. Second, our economy is already a train wreck in motion. After odumbocare is fully implemented, our economy will implode BEFORE odumbo leaves office. He will be remembered in history as the president who RUINED America.

A misreading of my intent...the only thing BEING SAID in defense is that it is like.......

 

[eagle1462010]

http://rsc.scalise.house.gov/uploadedfiles/bill_american_health_care_reform_act.pdf

A family of 4 would get a tax deduction up to 20,000 dollars for health care.

7,500 for an individual

High risk pools to get Federal Subsidies for those with Pre-existing conditions.
Targetting one of the areas that raises rates.

Across State lines, allowing competition with insurance companies throughout the country.

Allows Small Businesses to POOL TOGETHER thus allowing them to bargain as large corps and Unions do already.

Tort reform, that limits awards to Lawyers, yet still allows those wronged to get fair compensation. Another area that drives up costs..............

And so on...................The same dang things the GOP asked for during the ACA discussions as it was being passed.

There is NO Part Time Rule in the dang thing, the law applies to all. No exceptions. No favortism.

And the whole bill is only 188 pages long.

We wouldn't need to hire another 200,000 Federal Workers either.

Republicans Release Their Own Health Care System Reform Bill - Kaiser Health News

2009 proposals.

Great! Then why aren't the Republicans screaming about this at every opportunity, instead of just saying "no"?

Does this party have any idea of the value of messaging, any at all?

Would that not be the obvious and intellgent thing to do? Am I missing something?

What are they afraid of?

I think the ACA is a steaming pile of shit, too. But the GOP has done an incredibly lousy job at putting a clear alternative in front of the American people, and they don't need Obama's approval to do it. Someone over there has dropped the ball, big time, and now here we are.

That was my original point.

.

Don't know really. They did say these exact things back in the day of the debates on the ACA.

Perhaps because the Senate and Obama will not turn anyway. They would shut the Gov't down until hell freezes over on this and both sides know this.

Which is perhaps why the GOP doesn't sell this idea.

I think they are wrong, but they should put it out there for all the public to see. A solution that they have in place of the ACA. To sell this idea to the people, so when the Gov't is shut down, the people can see all the options on the table.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Canadian-born Cruz's hamhanded attempts to defund Obamacare are laughable. GOP House members are calling him a fraud and a liar. Cruz is now calling for the GOP Senate to filibuster the law that the House passed. Think about that. Cruz insisted the House pass it, now Cruz is insisting that the GOP filibustered in the Senate.

This isn't a parliamentary system, like in his homeland.

Hes filibustering because reid will add ocare before bringing it to a full vote. You always leave out critical steps.

 

[velvtacheeze]

Canadian-born Cruz's hamhanded attempts to defund Obamacare are laughable. GOP House members are calling him a fraud and a liar. Cruz is now calling for the GOP Senate to filibuster the law that the House passed. Think about that. Cruz insisted the House pass it, now Cruz is insisting that the GOP filibustered in the Senate.

This isn't a parliamentary system, like in his homeland.

Hes filibustering because reid will add ocare before bringing it to a full vote. You always leave out critical steps.[/QUOTE

He's a fraud. Rep King is right.

And Cruz is also not a natural born citizen of the US.

 

[rdean]

There is total confusion on the value of Obamacare...in the meantime it is disrupting the economy. It is a law voted into being on a partisan basis. The only thing that can be said in its defense is that it is like social security and medicare...resisted at first but now acceopted by all. No mention is made that these programs are bankrupting our country...and Obamacare could push us over the edge...we are headed in the wrong direction. Look at it this way....what has Obama been right about so far?????

Cruz should go back to his home country where everyone has health care. See how popular he is trying to take away their health care.

 

[The Rabbi]

Canadian-born Cruz's hamhanded attempts to defund Obamacare are laughable. GOP House members are calling him a fraud and a liar. Cruz is now calling for the GOP Senate to filibuster the law that the House passed. Think about that. Cruz insisted the House pass it, now Cruz is insisting that the GOP filibustered in the Senate.

This isn't a parliamentary system, like in his homeland.

Hes filibustering because reid will add ocare before bringing it to a full vote. You always leave out critical steps.[/QUOTE

He's a fraud. Rep King is right.

And Cruz is also not a natural born citizen of the US.

When and where was Cruz naturalized as a US citizen?

You are a liar and a fraud. You impersonate sentient beings on this site.

 

[Greenbeard]

Across State lines, allowing competition with insurance companies throughout the country.
.

My favorite part of these for the sheer absurdity of it (leaving aside the part where they eliminate the financial rationale for employers offering coverage, then try to sell small business pools as some great perk) is the across-state-lines stuff:

PRIMARY STATE.—The term ‘primary State’ means, with respect to individual health insurance coverage offered by a health insurance issuer, the State designated by the issuer as the State whose covered laws shall govern the health insurance issuer in the sale of such coverage under this part. An issuer, with respect to a particular policy, may only designate one such State as its primary State with respect to all such coverage it offers.

IN GENERAL. . .the covered laws of the primary State shall apply to individual health insurance coverage offered by a health insurance issuer in the primary State and in any secondary State,

EXEMPTIONS FROM COVERED LAWS IN A SECONDARY STATE. . . a health insurance issuer with respect to its offer, sale, rating (including medical underwriting), renewal, and issuance of individual health insurance coverage in any secondary State is exempt from any covered laws of the secondary State (and any rules, regulations, agreements, or orders sought or issued by such State under or related to such covered laws)

‘SEC. 2799. ENFORCEMENT.
‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.. . . with respect to specific individual health insurance coverage the primary State for such coverage has sole jurisdiction to enforce the primary State’s covered laws in the primary State and any secondary State.

Sell in any state you like, subject only to the rules of a single state of your choice. Meaning in any given state market, every insurer selling a product could be operating under a different set of rules. And who's responsible for enforcing those rules in that market? Probably somebody from some other state. Or rather 49 somebodies from 49 other states, since each state's insurance commissioner suddenly becomes responsible for enforcing his state's laws in every other state where an insurer who selected his state as the "primary state" happens to be doing business.

It's a dissonant mess--a nonsensical market structure with insurers selling products in the same market under different sets of rules on unlevel playing fields, and a federalism nightmare where each state is regulating every other state's marketplaces.

 

[velvtacheeze]

Hes filibustering because reid will add ocare before bringing it to a full vote. You always leave out critical steps.[/QUOTE

He's a fraud. Rep King is right.

And Cruz is also not a natural born citizen of the US.

When and where was Cruz naturalized as a US citizen?

You are a liar and a fraud. You impersonate sentient beings on this site.

I had no idea that he was a naturalized citizen of the US. When did that happen? I don't think it did.

His dad is not American, he was born in Canada, subject of Eliz II, and didn't arrive in America till he was four years old.

Was any paperwork filled about by the Cruz family? Did they just mistakenly assume that having an American mom was enough?

Perhaps adding a provision to the Dream Act to include older illegals like Cruz could help his cause.

 

[The Rabbi]

When and where was Cruz naturalized as a US citizen?

You are a liar and a fraud. You impersonate sentient beings on this site.

I had no idea that he was a naturalized citizen of the US. When did that happen? I don't think it did.

His dad is not American, he was born in Canada, subject of Eliz II, and didn't arrive in America till he was four years old.

Was any paperwork filled about by the Cruz family? Did they just mistakenly assume that having an American mom was enough?

Perhaps adding a provision to the Dream Act to include older illegals like Cruz could help his cause.

OK so if he wasnt a naturalized citizen then he was a natural born citizen.
You have disproven your own statement.
Dunce.

 

[eagle1462010]

Across State lines, allowing competition with insurance companies throughout the country.
.

My favorite part of these for the sheer absurdity of it (leaving aside the part where they eliminate the financial rationale for employers offering coverage, then try to sell small business pools as some great perk) is the across-state-lines stuff:

PRIMARY STATE.—The term ‘primary State’ means, with respect to individual health insurance coverage offered by a health insurance issuer, the State designated by the issuer as the State whose covered laws shall govern the health insurance issuer in the sale of such coverage under this part. An issuer, with respect to a particular policy, may only designate one such State as its primary State with respect to all such coverage it offers.

IN GENERAL. . .the covered laws of the primary State shall apply to individual health insurance coverage offered by a health insurance issuer in the primary State and in any secondary State,

EXEMPTIONS FROM COVERED LAWS IN A SECONDARY STATE. . . a health insurance issuer with respect to its offer, sale, rating (including medical underwriting), renewal, and issuance of individual health insurance coverage in any secondary State is exempt from any covered laws of the secondary State (and any rules, regulations, agreements, or orders sought or issued by such State under or related to such covered laws)

‘SEC. 2799. ENFORCEMENT.
‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.. . . with respect to specific individual health insurance coverage the primary State for such coverage has sole jurisdiction to enforce the primary State’s covered laws in the primary State and any secondary State.

Sell in any state you like, subject only to the rules of a single state of your choice. Meaning in any given state market, every insurer selling a product could be operating under a different set of rules. And who's responsible for enforcing those rules in that market? Probably somebody from some other state. Or rather 49 somebodies from 49 other states, since each state's insurance commissioner suddenly becomes responsible for enforcing his state's laws in every other state where an insurer who selected his state as the "primary state" happens to be doing business.

It's a dissonant mess--a nonsensical market structure with insurers selling products in the same market under different sets of rules on unlevel playing fields, and a federalism nightmare where each state is regulating every other state's marketplaces.

So it would be impossible for the State's to get together and come up with a solution to solve the state to state codes.............................

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't more participation among small businesses pooled together lower their rates instead of raise them............Corps have larger employee roles, as do Unions.............which gets them better rates than the little ones..............So why not allow greater pooling of groups to lower their rates.

After all, isn't the entire purpose of the law to get insurance more affordable? Or is that just a song and dance.................

State's such as Mississippi have engaged in Tort Reform and have lower rates as a result, but still have very large decisions on malpractice...............Something that the Medical community talks about all the time.................Lowering their Malpractice Insurance rates keeps prices lower...........As their Malpractice Insurance rates drop.

But that doesn't mean you throw victims under the bus. Tort reform allows large settlements, but also stops the lawyers from taking all the money after winning.

Again lowering costs, which is the problem...........

Direct Gov't Subsidies to high maintenance or pre existing conditions ALSO TARGETS specific areas of concern. Thus taking these out of the regular rated areas to lower those costs.

What exactly is wrong with this, or making the deductions for EVERYONE and not just those on the FPL areas........................

 

[eagle1462010]

The real problem here is and always has been the cost of medicine and hospitalization. You go in and get a surgery that takes an hour, recovery for 4, and eat Jellow pudding for 3 days and the bill is 30,000.

That's the real problem.

And insurance companies ARE NOT MEDICAL PROVIDERS. Why not subsidize the actual industry that SAVE'S LIVES other than the Insurance industry.

I've never seen surgery take place at the Insurance adjusters office.

 

[deltex1]

Competition lowers cost...supervised of course to preclude collusion...and other forms of non virtuous behavior.

 

[auditor0007]

There is total confusion on the value of Obamacare...in the meantime it is disrupting the economy. It is a law voted into being on a partisan basis. The only thing that can be said in its defense is that it is like social security and medicare...resisted at first but now acceopted by all. No mention is made that these programs are bankrupting our country...and Obamacare could push us over the edge...we are headed in the wrong direction. Look at it this way....what has Obama been right about so far?????

Not sure about the long term, but over the last three years Obamacare has saved the country about $750 billion if we consider the much slower rate of growth in healthcare spending the past three years versus the fifteen years before.

 

[The Rabbi]

There is total confusion on the value of Obamacare...in the meantime it is disrupting the economy. It is a law voted into being on a partisan basis. The only thing that can be said in its defense is that it is like social security and medicare...resisted at first but now acceopted by all. No mention is made that these programs are bankrupting our country...and Obamacare could push us over the edge...we are headed in the wrong direction. Look at it this way....what has Obama been right about so far?????

Not sure about the long term, but over the last three years Obamacare has saved the country about $750 billion if we consider the much slower rate of growth in healthcare spending the past three years versus the fifteen years before.

And how exactly has Obamacare done that, given that the provisions havent really kicked in yet?

 

[deltex1]

There is total confusion on the value of Obamacare...in the meantime it is disrupting the economy. It is a law voted into being on a partisan basis. The only thing that can be said in its defense is that it is like social security and medicare...resisted at first but now acceopted by all. No mention is made that these programs are bankrupting our country...and Obamacare could push us over the edge...we are headed in the wrong direction. Look at it this way....what has Obama been right about so far?????

Not sure about the long term, but over the last three years Obamacare has saved the country about $750 billion if we consider the much slower rate of growth in healthcare spending the past three years versus the fifteen years before.

when the price goes up, the demand goes down...so you need fewer death panels etc.....

 

[007]

Great! Then why aren't the Republicans screaming about this at every opportunity, instead of just saying "no"?

Does this party have any idea of the value of messaging, any at all?

Would that not be the obvious and intellgent thing to do? Am I missing something?

Yes you are. You're missing what's painfully obvious and a widely known fact, that the mass media is LIBERAL LEFT. They are the MOUTH PIECE AND MEGAPHONE for obama and the leftist democrats. Republicans are at a HUGE disadvantage when it comes to messaging, but it isn't for the lack of trying, it's that the liberal media won't repeat a damn thing they have to say.

I also believe you know this, so why you decided to post such ignorant drivel is beyond me. I thought you were smarter than this.

I guess everyone is occasionally subject to partisan hyperbole, and your's always seems to lean LEFT.

 

[velvtacheeze]

I had no idea that he was a naturalized citizen of the US. When did that happen? I don't think it did.

His dad is not American, he was born in Canada, subject of Eliz II, and didn't arrive in America till he was four years old.

Was any paperwork filled about by the Cruz family? Did they just mistakenly assume that having an American mom was enough?

Perhaps adding a provision to the Dream Act to include older illegals like Cruz could help his cause.

OK so if he wasnt a naturalized citizen then he was a natural born citizen.
You have disproven your own statement.
Dunce.

Americans are REQUIRED to go to a US consulate prior to birth to fill out the needed paperwork in order for their child to get US citizenship. There are claims that this was done by Cruz's mom, but no proof has been provided. This doesn't cut it.

Under current law, this is the Form FS-240. It could have been something else when Ted was born in a foreign land, to an non-American, rootless father, but it has not been provided for public viewing regardless.

Cruz's defenders keep thinking that just having an American mom is enough. it's not.

I don't even believe Ted is eligible for the Senate, let alone the White House. He is an undocumented alien, and needs to be deported and so he can go to the back of line.