Everyone Repeat After Me...This Is A Manufactured Crisis...Manufactured Crisis....Manufactured Cr...

[Indeependent]

There Is No Border Crisis

“In FY 2017, CBP [Customs and Border Protection] recorded the lowest level of illegal cross-border migration on record, as measured by apprehensions along the border and inadmissible encounters at U.S. ports of entry,” according to the Trump administration’s DHS report released in December 2017. Did the situation at the border change dramatically over the next 13 months and go from an historic “lowest level of illegal cross-border migration” to a national crisis? The answer is, “No.”

Border Patrol apprehensions along the Southwest border in FY 2018 were the 5th lowest level of illegal entry recorded in the past 46 years. (Apprehensions are a proxy for illegal entry.) While the 396,579 apprehensions in FY 2018 represented a 30% increase from FY 2017, that’s largely because the 303,916 apprehensions in FY 2017 were the lowest number of apprehensions recorded along the Southwest border since 1972 – nearly a half century ago.

Here is the big picture: The most important overlooked immigration development is that illegal entry by individuals from Mexico has plummeted by more than 90% since FY 2000, according to Border Patrol apprehensions data. That means large-scale illegal migration by Mexicans to the United States – the original public justification Donald Trump used for building a wall along the border – is simply over. Demographics and improved economic conditions in Mexico ended it.

That still leaves the problem of families and unaccompanied minors from Central America seeking safety, economic well-being or both in the United States. It also leaves a U.S. system not well organized to cope with them. Unaccompanied minors and family units from two countries drove the increase in FY 2018 numbers.

Apprehensions of family units (children with adult family members) from El Salvador dropped almost 50% between FY 2016 and FY 2018. Apprehensions of unaccompanied minors from El Salvador fell by 72%, down to 4,949 in FY 2018. Border Patrol apprehensions of family units and unaccompanied minors from Mexico have also dropped significantly in the past few years.

Anyone who actually bothers to look at the data knows their is no "crisis."

Not for rich people.

 

[Care4all]

link up buddy.... prove me wrong! Every number listed is fact, not fiction.

Southwest Border Migration FY 2019 | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

For their part Tuesday, House Democrats maintained their negotiating posture: that discussions about border security should not take place until the partial government shutdown is ended.

“Let’s be clear: Democrats are willing to discuss the best way to keep the border secure, but there’s no reason for the government to be shut down while those discussions take pace,” House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer of Maryland said in a statement.

Trump says a recent surge in border apprehensions is caused by a lack of border security, but apprehensions of undocumented immigrants have actually trended downward for almost 20 years now.

The year 2000 saw the most apprehensions of undocumented immigrants at the border, with 1.6 million caught. In subsequent years, through 2006, about 1 million per year were apprehended. Then they began a steady decline so that by the end of the Obama administration, they were down to about 300,000 per year.

But a surge in apprehensions of unaccompanied children and families from Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador, beginning in 2014, has altered the face of illegal immigration. Fleeing gang violence and extreme poverty, these children and families sought asylum at the border in increasing numbers in the past four years. The levels are now 400,000 to 500,000 per year.

Because these migrants are seeking entry into the United States under asylum rules — which is a legal path to immigration — they need only present themselves at a legal point of entry and the U.S. government then must consider whether they have a credible fear of violence or injury back in their home countries. The government cannot quickly deport these Central Americans, because they come from countries with no contiguous borders to the United States. Under the law they cannot be turned back, unlike Mexican migrants, who can.

All sides of this issue acknowledge that this surge of Central Americans seeking asylum has taken its toll on the U.S. immigration system, on immigration judges, Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, Border Patrol agents and the like.

But it’s also important to know that the U.S. government has way more assets at the border than it did in the early 2000s. During their administrations, both George W. Bush and Barack Obama increased fences, electronic measures and manpower.

At border, Homeland Security Department stats paint complex situation

That isn't a "negotiating posture." That's a refusal to negotiate. They demand Trump give them everything they demand before they will "negotiate." Only some kind of brain damaged snowflake wouldn't see how utterly absurd that is.

Everything they demand? Bull crap....

all they are saying is open the government.... instead of being an asshole and purposely using these workers, and businesses who rely on them, as pawns in your game, when they have absolutely nothing to do with border security differences between the congress, who constitutionally have the power of the purse, and the president.

And let them discuss and negotiate the border wall and border security as it should be planned through committee analysis and discussed by the two parties who are involved.

Nothing has been settled on border security nor have the Dems gotten anything from it...

it is in EVERYONE'S BEST INTEREST to allow govt workers to go back to work.... this 3 year old tyrant in the oval office needs to be thrown out... the sooner the better for our whole nation imo.... but of course you know how I think about him already from previous discussions....

dude too funny, you want a win ahead of the negotiation. that isn't negotiating. duhhhhhh

And again, you wish to victimize 300 million people ahead of giving five bucks for security. what an asshole.

There is nothing like bargaining in good faith as a leftist.

I'm not a dude and have never wanted to be a dude, I have always been quite happy, being a dame/damsel!

there is no winning by holding government workers hostage and there is no negotiating being done on border security by doing it.... they have nothing to do with border security.

the negotiating begins when the president and congress begin talking and wheeling and dealing, without any hostages.

holding hostages, is cheating and stupid as stupid is imo....

Congress should not do this piece meal... it should be analyzed, reviewed, with a proposal in hand of what the president actually wants with border security and a cost/effective analysis, so they know how best to allocate the money.... and also to determine how much money for all of border security is needed, as congress does with all other appropriations....

The president is claiming this national security only to distract from the Trump campaign's collusion with the Russians coming out....
if it were a national security risk he would have shut the gvt down when republicans were in charge the past 2 years.... but HE DIDN'T.... this is simply a political ploy, to get the news off of what really is happening.

 

[Rambunctious]

Obama deported record numbers of illegal aliens.

He didn't deport them he gave them court dates and released them on their own recognizance...stop swallowing fake news.....

 

[Dogmaphobe]

they say it's a manufactured crisis, but they don't tell us that it was one of their own who has manufactured so much of the invasion.

George Soros anybody? His plan is to destabilize the Western world so he has more opportunities for currency speculation .

 

[Care4all]

Everything they demand? Bull crap....

all they are saying is open the government.... instead of being an asshole and purposely using these workers, and businesses who rely on them, as pawns in your game, when they have absolutely nothing to do with border security differences between the congress, who constitutionally have the power of the purse, and the president.

And let them discuss and negotiate the border wall and border security as it should be planned through committee analysis and discussed by the two parties who are involved.

Nothing has been settled on border security nor have the Dems gotten anything from it...

it is in EVERYONE'S BEST INTEREST to allow govt workers to go back to work.... this 3 year old tyrant in the oval office needs to be thrown out... the sooner the better for our whole nation imo.... but of course you know how I think about him already from previous discussions....

You're such a fucking moron. All they are saying is "just open the government?" In other words, "we'll negotiate after you throw away your only leverage." It takes serious brain damage to post idiocies like that.

Bri, he thinks we're stupid. our posts tell him no, but he is so stupid he can't figure that out yet.

He be like, if I post enough times maybe they'll concede/ cave. like Pelosi thinks trump will. too fking funny, notice I don't use wimpy chuckie's name, he's fking a snake with no backbone.

I think care4all is a she. In fact, I believe she's a carpet muncher. You're right that she is one of the dumbest posters in this forum. Anything you post goes right over her head. She repeats talking points because she lacks the ability to think her own thoughts or commit logic.

I believe she's the one that gets the mods on me once in awhile.

Yep. She tries to bait you, and then she reports you if you return fire.

I don't report people I disagree with... I enjoy the fight, the debate! I would not be here on USMB if it were some liberal site with everyone patting each other on the back.... that is not enjoyable for me, at all...

in the 12 years here on the site, I have reported around one hand full.... and they never had anything to do with me debating and arguing with them....

AND FYI, I have been happily married to the same man the past 28 years...

 

[hunarcy]

LOL!

The Perils of Illegal Border Crossing

You realize that link is talking about the journey to the border, not numbers on apprehensions over time.

First, there are fewer apprehensions because of the 700 miles of walls that has been built, showing that walls do work. But, apprehensions is only one aspect. You are completely ignoring those who die while trying to journey to and across the border as if those deaths mean nothing. So, the fact is you're trying to use the "big picture" to minimize the details of the crisis. Not very honest of you.

You think the fence is the reason for the rapid decline in apprehensions? It's because of economic growth in countries like Mexico -- that's the primary driver.

You are completely ignoring those who die while trying to journey to and across the border as if those deaths mean nothing.

It's always funny when people pretend to give a shit about people fleeing their home countries for economic opportunity/asylum and than simultaneously saying they're "invaders." Of course apprehension isn't the only aspect, but Trump and others are trying to paint the picture that there's a massive increase in illegal immigration that is unprecedented, which is nonsense. Also, I never said the deaths mean nothing. In fact, I have no problem with people seeking asylum. Nice try though!

Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's. Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42965.pdf
https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2017-Dec/BP Total Apps, Mexico, OTM FY2000-FY2017.pdf
So when looking at illegal entry from individuals from Mexico since 2000, it is clear that it has drastically declined.

Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

Your claim was that:

First, there are fewer apprehensions because of the 700 miles of walls that has been built, showing that walls do work.

In reality, economic growth in countries of origin is the primary driver between declines in illegal immigration. Mexico is simply the best example of this happening, which is why I bring it up.

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Where have I ignored the loss of human life? It's tragic that people are fleeing their home countries searching for a better life are dying on the journey. Where have I said otherwise? Do you think a wall does anything to stop people seeking asylum? Might want to look into how asylum seeking works.

You can CLAIM it's economic growth while providing no proof. Your problem is that there is NO proof of your claim because the "economic growth you tout is lackluster at best and non-existent at worst.

And you ignore the loss of human life by failing to acknowledge it as an issue. And, asylum seekers have no more right to enter this nation illegally than anyone else. Your arguments are hollow.

 

[hunarcy]

LOL!

First, there are fewer apprehensions because of the 700 miles of walls that has been built, showing that walls do work. But, apprehensions is only one aspect. You are completely ignoring those who die while trying to journey to and across the border as if those deaths mean nothing. So, the fact is you're trying to use the "big picture" to minimize the details of the crisis. Not very honest of you.

You think the fence is the reason for the rapid decline in apprehensions? It's because of economic growth in countries like Mexico -- that's the primary driver.

You are completely ignoring those who die while trying to journey to and across the border as if those deaths mean nothing.

It's always funny when people pretend to give a shit about people fleeing their home countries for economic opportunity/asylum and than simultaneously saying they're "invaders." Of course apprehension isn't the only aspect, but Trump and others are trying to paint the picture that there's a massive increase in illegal immigration that is unprecedented, which is nonsense. Also, I never said the deaths mean nothing. In fact, I have no problem with people seeking asylum. Nice try though!

Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's. Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42965.pdf
https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2017-Dec/BP Total Apps, Mexico, OTM FY2000-FY2017.pdf
So when looking at illegal entry from individuals from Mexico since 2000, it is clear that it has drastically declined.

Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

Your claim was that:

First, there are fewer apprehensions because of the 700 miles of walls that has been built, showing that walls do work.

In reality, economic growth in countries of origin is the primary driver between declines in illegal immigration. Mexico is simply the best example of this happening, which is why I bring it up.

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Where have I ignored the loss of human life? It's tragic that people are fleeing their home countries searching for a better life are dying on the journey. Where have I said otherwise? Do you think a wall does anything to stop people seeking asylum? Might want to look into how asylum seeking works.

According to international law, anyone seeking asylum has to do it in the first country they enter after they flee their home country.

Mark

Under US and international law people have the right to seek Asylum in another country, it doesn't have to be done in their home country. This is quite literally true, as we're processing asylum seekers right now.

You make pronouncements without support. That's not a good practice. Feel free to source yours statements in the future. Here, I'll help: Asylum Law and Procedure

 

[Care4all]

LOL!

You realize that link is talking about the journey to the border, not numbers on apprehensions over time.

First, there are fewer apprehensions because of the 700 miles of walls that has been built, showing that walls do work. But, apprehensions is only one aspect. You are completely ignoring those who die while trying to journey to and across the border as if those deaths mean nothing. So, the fact is you're trying to use the "big picture" to minimize the details of the crisis. Not very honest of you.

You think the fence is the reason for the rapid decline in apprehensions? It's because of economic growth in countries like Mexico -- that's the primary driver.

You are completely ignoring those who die while trying to journey to and across the border as if those deaths mean nothing.

It's always funny when people pretend to give a shit about people fleeing their home countries for economic opportunity/asylum and than simultaneously saying they're "invaders." Of course apprehension isn't the only aspect, but Trump and others are trying to paint the picture that there's a massive increase in illegal immigration that is unprecedented, which is nonsense. Also, I never said the deaths mean nothing. In fact, I have no problem with people seeking asylum. Nice try though!

Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's. Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42965.pdf
https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2017-Dec/BP Total Apps, Mexico, OTM FY2000-FY2017.pdf
So when looking at illegal entry from individuals from Mexico since 2000, it is clear that it has drastically declined.

Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

Your claim was that:

First, there are fewer apprehensions because of the 700 miles of walls that has been built, showing that walls do work.

In reality, economic growth in countries of origin is the primary driver between declines in illegal immigration. Mexico is simply the best example of this happening, which is why I bring it up.

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Where have I ignored the loss of human life? It's tragic that people are fleeing their home countries searching for a better life are dying on the journey. Where have I said otherwise? Do you think a wall does anything to stop people seeking asylum? Might want to look into how asylum seeking works.

You can CLAIM it's economic growth while providing no proof. Your problem is that there is NO proof of your claim because the "economic growth you tout is lackluster at best and non-existent at worst.

And you ignore the loss of human life by failing to acknowledge it as an issue. And, asylum seekers have no more right to enter this nation illegally than anyone else. Your arguments are hollow.

I disagree.... only because there are American companies and businesses making money off of the cheap labor, giving them more profit, and the profit of these businesses is taxable, and what is left over, is there for them to spend in the economy.... so the illegal may not seem to be paying in to taxes or spending much in the economy when you look at only them, but when you put in what the businesses are making off of them.... it is a whole nuther story.... imo.

 

[jc456]

LOL!

First, there are fewer apprehensions because of the 700 miles of walls that has been built, showing that walls do work. But, apprehensions is only one aspect. You are completely ignoring those who die while trying to journey to and across the border as if those deaths mean nothing. So, the fact is you're trying to use the "big picture" to minimize the details of the crisis. Not very honest of you.

You think the fence is the reason for the rapid decline in apprehensions? It's because of economic growth in countries like Mexico -- that's the primary driver.

You are completely ignoring those who die while trying to journey to and across the border as if those deaths mean nothing.

It's always funny when people pretend to give a shit about people fleeing their home countries for economic opportunity/asylum and than simultaneously saying they're "invaders." Of course apprehension isn't the only aspect, but Trump and others are trying to paint the picture that there's a massive increase in illegal immigration that is unprecedented, which is nonsense. Also, I never said the deaths mean nothing. In fact, I have no problem with people seeking asylum. Nice try though!

Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's. Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42965.pdf
https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2017-Dec/BP Total Apps, Mexico, OTM FY2000-FY2017.pdf
So when looking at illegal entry from individuals from Mexico since 2000, it is clear that it has drastically declined.

Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

Your claim was that:

First, there are fewer apprehensions because of the 700 miles of walls that has been built, showing that walls do work.

In reality, economic growth in countries of origin is the primary driver between declines in illegal immigration. Mexico is simply the best example of this happening, which is why I bring it up.

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Where have I ignored the loss of human life? It's tragic that people are fleeing their home countries searching for a better life are dying on the journey. Where have I said otherwise? Do you think a wall does anything to stop people seeking asylum? Might want to look into how asylum seeking works.

You can CLAIM it's economic growth while providing no proof. Your problem is that there is NO proof of your claim because the "economic growth you tout is lackluster at best and non-existent at worst.

And you ignore the loss of human life by failing to acknowledge it as an issue. And, asylum seekers have no more right to enter this nation illegally than anyone else. Your arguments are hollow.

I disagree.... only because there are American companies and businesses making money off of the cheap labor, giving them more profit, and the profit of these businesses is taxable, and what is left over, is there for them to spend in the economy.... so the illegal may not seem to be paying in to taxes or spending much in the economy when you look at only them, but when you put in what the businesses are making off of them.... it is a whole nuther story.... imo.

I agree. Stop allowing illegals in, means higher wages for americans.

 

[hunarcy]

LOL!

First, there are fewer apprehensions because of the 700 miles of walls that has been built, showing that walls do work. But, apprehensions is only one aspect. You are completely ignoring those who die while trying to journey to and across the border as if those deaths mean nothing. So, the fact is you're trying to use the "big picture" to minimize the details of the crisis. Not very honest of you.

You think the fence is the reason for the rapid decline in apprehensions? It's because of economic growth in countries like Mexico -- that's the primary driver.

You are completely ignoring those who die while trying to journey to and across the border as if those deaths mean nothing.

It's always funny when people pretend to give a shit about people fleeing their home countries for economic opportunity/asylum and than simultaneously saying they're "invaders." Of course apprehension isn't the only aspect, but Trump and others are trying to paint the picture that there's a massive increase in illegal immigration that is unprecedented, which is nonsense. Also, I never said the deaths mean nothing. In fact, I have no problem with people seeking asylum. Nice try though!

Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's. Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42965.pdf
https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2017-Dec/BP Total Apps, Mexico, OTM FY2000-FY2017.pdf
So when looking at illegal entry from individuals from Mexico since 2000, it is clear that it has drastically declined.

Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

Your claim was that:

First, there are fewer apprehensions because of the 700 miles of walls that has been built, showing that walls do work.

In reality, economic growth in countries of origin is the primary driver between declines in illegal immigration. Mexico is simply the best example of this happening, which is why I bring it up.

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Where have I ignored the loss of human life? It's tragic that people are fleeing their home countries searching for a better life are dying on the journey. Where have I said otherwise? Do you think a wall does anything to stop people seeking asylum? Might want to look into how asylum seeking works.

You can CLAIM it's economic growth while providing no proof. Your problem is that there is NO proof of your claim because the "economic growth you tout is lackluster at best and non-existent at worst.

And you ignore the loss of human life by failing to acknowledge it as an issue. And, asylum seekers have no more right to enter this nation illegally than anyone else. Your arguments are hollow.

I disagree.... only because there are American companies and businesses making money off of the cheap labor, giving them more profit, and the profit of these businesses is taxable, and what is left over, is there for them to spend in the economy.... so the illegal may not seem to be paying in to taxes or spending much in the economy when you look at only them, but when you put in what the businesses are making off of them.... it is a whole nuther story.... imo.

The guy is making an argument that the economies of the nations of Central America, South America and Mexico are improving so much that the incentive to come to the USA was dwindling, not that there's no benefit to illegal immigrants who come to the USA. I would argue such benefit to the USA is based on immorality (as it requires the alien to be taken advantage of and abused) but the benefit you describe does exist.

 

[Care4all]

LOL!

You think the fence is the reason for the rapid decline in apprehensions? It's because of economic growth in countries like Mexico -- that's the primary driver.
It's always funny when people pretend to give a shit about people fleeing their home countries for economic opportunity/asylum and than simultaneously saying they're "invaders." Of course apprehension isn't the only aspect, but Trump and others are trying to paint the picture that there's a massive increase in illegal immigration that is unprecedented, which is nonsense. Also, I never said the deaths mean nothing. In fact, I have no problem with people seeking asylum. Nice try though!

Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's. Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42965.pdf
https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2017-Dec/BP Total Apps, Mexico, OTM FY2000-FY2017.pdf
So when looking at illegal entry from individuals from Mexico since 2000, it is clear that it has drastically declined.

Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

Your claim was that:

First, there are fewer apprehensions because of the 700 miles of walls that has been built, showing that walls do work.

In reality, economic growth in countries of origin is the primary driver between declines in illegal immigration. Mexico is simply the best example of this happening, which is why I bring it up.

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Where have I ignored the loss of human life? It's tragic that people are fleeing their home countries searching for a better life are dying on the journey. Where have I said otherwise? Do you think a wall does anything to stop people seeking asylum? Might want to look into how asylum seeking works.

You can CLAIM it's economic growth while providing no proof. Your problem is that there is NO proof of your claim because the "economic growth you tout is lackluster at best and non-existent at worst.

And you ignore the loss of human life by failing to acknowledge it as an issue. And, asylum seekers have no more right to enter this nation illegally than anyone else. Your arguments are hollow.

I disagree.... only because there are American companies and businesses making money off of the cheap labor, giving them more profit, and the profit of these businesses is taxable, and what is left over, is there for them to spend in the economy.... so the illegal may not seem to be paying in to taxes or spending much in the economy when you look at only them, but when you put in what the businesses are making off of them.... it is a whole nuther story.... imo.

I agree. Stop allowing illegals in, means higher wages for americans.

now stop it! I do not want to agree with you, it's just just just, not right!

I agree with stopping illegals from coming in, but most are here illegally because they over stayed their legal VISAS of which most came in on, thru airports, and that needs to be addressed with border security legislation as well.... we need a comprehensive immigration and border security plan.

Also, we have to do something with the illegals already here and established.... this is why DACA/DREAMERS was a good start.... bring these people out of the wood work, and this forces employers to pay them higher, legal, wages and allows these people to fight for a higher wage, which will help all American citizens keep the wages higher.... give at least these children of illegals that have been here 5 years or more already, a chance at citizenship, IF THEY KEEP THEIR NOSES CLEAN!

 

[Care4all]

LOL!

You think the fence is the reason for the rapid decline in apprehensions? It's because of economic growth in countries like Mexico -- that's the primary driver.
It's always funny when people pretend to give a shit about people fleeing their home countries for economic opportunity/asylum and than simultaneously saying they're "invaders." Of course apprehension isn't the only aspect, but Trump and others are trying to paint the picture that there's a massive increase in illegal immigration that is unprecedented, which is nonsense. Also, I never said the deaths mean nothing. In fact, I have no problem with people seeking asylum. Nice try though!

Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's. Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42965.pdf
https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2017-Dec/BP Total Apps, Mexico, OTM FY2000-FY2017.pdf
So when looking at illegal entry from individuals from Mexico since 2000, it is clear that it has drastically declined.

Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

Your claim was that:

First, there are fewer apprehensions because of the 700 miles of walls that has been built, showing that walls do work.

In reality, economic growth in countries of origin is the primary driver between declines in illegal immigration. Mexico is simply the best example of this happening, which is why I bring it up.

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Where have I ignored the loss of human life? It's tragic that people are fleeing their home countries searching for a better life are dying on the journey. Where have I said otherwise? Do you think a wall does anything to stop people seeking asylum? Might want to look into how asylum seeking works.

You can CLAIM it's economic growth while providing no proof. Your problem is that there is NO proof of your claim because the "economic growth you tout is lackluster at best and non-existent at worst.

And you ignore the loss of human life by failing to acknowledge it as an issue. And, asylum seekers have no more right to enter this nation illegally than anyone else. Your arguments are hollow.

I disagree.... only because there are American companies and businesses making money off of the cheap labor, giving them more profit, and the profit of these businesses is taxable, and what is left over, is there for them to spend in the economy.... so the illegal may not seem to be paying in to taxes or spending much in the economy when you look at only them, but when you put in what the businesses are making off of them.... it is a whole nuther story.... imo.

The guy is making an argument that the economies of the nations of Central America, South America and Mexico are improving so much that the incentive to come to the USA was dwindling, not that there's no benefit to illegal immigrants who come to the USA. I would argue such benefit to the USA is based on immorality (as it requires the alien to be taken advantage of and abused) but the benefit you describe does exist.

In Mexico, it has improved some... but imo, NOT those Central American countries... they are extremely depressed.

to some degree, I think Mexicans coming here has slowed because we were in the great recession... jobs were not available here... plus we have doubled border patrol and INS, built or repaired 700 miles of wall, added all kinds of technology the past 10 years...it's hard to say which one has affected the lower illegal numbers the most...

 

[bripat9643]

Southwest Border Migration FY 2019 | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

For their part Tuesday, House Democrats maintained their negotiating posture: that discussions about border security should not take place until the partial government shutdown is ended.

“Let’s be clear: Democrats are willing to discuss the best way to keep the border secure, but there’s no reason for the government to be shut down while those discussions take pace,” House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer of Maryland said in a statement.

Trump says a recent surge in border apprehensions is caused by a lack of border security, but apprehensions of undocumented immigrants have actually trended downward for almost 20 years now.

The year 2000 saw the most apprehensions of undocumented immigrants at the border, with 1.6 million caught. In subsequent years, through 2006, about 1 million per year were apprehended. Then they began a steady decline so that by the end of the Obama administration, they were down to about 300,000 per year.

But a surge in apprehensions of unaccompanied children and families from Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador, beginning in 2014, has altered the face of illegal immigration. Fleeing gang violence and extreme poverty, these children and families sought asylum at the border in increasing numbers in the past four years. The levels are now 400,000 to 500,000 per year.

Because these migrants are seeking entry into the United States under asylum rules — which is a legal path to immigration — they need only present themselves at a legal point of entry and the U.S. government then must consider whether they have a credible fear of violence or injury back in their home countries. The government cannot quickly deport these Central Americans, because they come from countries with no contiguous borders to the United States. Under the law they cannot be turned back, unlike Mexican migrants, who can.

All sides of this issue acknowledge that this surge of Central Americans seeking asylum has taken its toll on the U.S. immigration system, on immigration judges, Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, Border Patrol agents and the like.

But it’s also important to know that the U.S. government has way more assets at the border than it did in the early 2000s. During their administrations, both George W. Bush and Barack Obama increased fences, electronic measures and manpower.

At border, Homeland Security Department stats paint complex situation

That isn't a "negotiating posture." That's a refusal to negotiate. They demand Trump give them everything they demand before they will "negotiate." Only some kind of brain damaged snowflake wouldn't see how utterly absurd that is.

Everything they demand? Bull crap....

all they are saying is open the government.... instead of being an asshole and purposely using these workers, and businesses who rely on them, as pawns in your game, when they have absolutely nothing to do with border security differences between the congress, who constitutionally have the power of the purse, and the president.

And let them discuss and negotiate the border wall and border security as it should be planned through committee analysis and discussed by the two parties who are involved.

Nothing has been settled on border security nor have the Dems gotten anything from it...

it is in EVERYONE'S BEST INTEREST to allow govt workers to go back to work.... this 3 year old tyrant in the oval office needs to be thrown out... the sooner the better for our whole nation imo.... but of course you know how I think about him already from previous discussions....

dude too funny, you want a win ahead of the negotiation. that isn't negotiating. duhhhhhh

And again, you wish to victimize 300 million people ahead of giving five bucks for security. what an asshole.

There is nothing like bargaining in good faith as a leftist.

I'm not a dude and have never wanted to be a dude, I have always been quite happy, being a dame/damsel!

there is no winning by holding government workers hostage and there is no negotiating being done on border security by doing it.... they have nothing to do with border security.

the negotiating begins when the president and congress begin talking and wheeling and dealing, without any hostages.

holding hostages, is cheating and stupid as stupid is imo....

Congress should not do this piece meal... it should be analyzed, reviewed, with a proposal in hand of what the president actually wants with border security and a cost/effective analysis, so they know how best to allocate the money.... and also to determine how much money for all of border security is needed, as congress does with all other appropriations....

The president is claiming this national security only to distract from the Trump campaign's collusion with the Russians coming out....
if it were a national security risk he would have shut the gvt down when republicans were in charge the past 2 years.... but HE DIDN'T.... this is simply a political ploy, to get the news off of what really is happening.

Sorry, dingbat, but taking hostages is exactly how you negotiate. You don't do it by throwing away whatever leverage you have. Your definition of "negotiate" means "surrender." Don't bother posting further on the subject because your position is a no-op.

 

[hunarcy]

Southwest Border Migration FY 2019 | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

For their part Tuesday, House Democrats maintained their negotiating posture: that discussions about border security should not take place until the partial government shutdown is ended.

“Let’s be clear: Democrats are willing to discuss the best way to keep the border secure, but there’s no reason for the government to be shut down while those discussions take pace,” House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer of Maryland said in a statement.

Trump says a recent surge in border apprehensions is caused by a lack of border security, but apprehensions of undocumented immigrants have actually trended downward for almost 20 years now.

The year 2000 saw the most apprehensions of undocumented immigrants at the border, with 1.6 million caught. In subsequent years, through 2006, about 1 million per year were apprehended. Then they began a steady decline so that by the end of the Obama administration, they were down to about 300,000 per year.

But a surge in apprehensions of unaccompanied children and families from Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador, beginning in 2014, has altered the face of illegal immigration. Fleeing gang violence and extreme poverty, these children and families sought asylum at the border in increasing numbers in the past four years. The levels are now 400,000 to 500,000 per year.

Because these migrants are seeking entry into the United States under asylum rules — which is a legal path to immigration — they need only present themselves at a legal point of entry and the U.S. government then must consider whether they have a credible fear of violence or injury back in their home countries. The government cannot quickly deport these Central Americans, because they come from countries with no contiguous borders to the United States. Under the law they cannot be turned back, unlike Mexican migrants, who can.

All sides of this issue acknowledge that this surge of Central Americans seeking asylum has taken its toll on the U.S. immigration system, on immigration judges, Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, Border Patrol agents and the like.

But it’s also important to know that the U.S. government has way more assets at the border than it did in the early 2000s. During their administrations, both George W. Bush and Barack Obama increased fences, electronic measures and manpower.

At border, Homeland Security Department stats paint complex situation

That isn't a "negotiating posture." That's a refusal to negotiate. They demand Trump give them everything they demand before they will "negotiate." Only some kind of brain damaged snowflake wouldn't see how utterly absurd that is.

Everything they demand? Bull crap....

all they are saying is open the government.... instead of being an asshole and purposely using these workers, and businesses who rely on them, as pawns in your game, when they have absolutely nothing to do with border security differences between the congress, who constitutionally have the power of the purse, and the president.

And let them discuss and negotiate the border wall and border security as it should be planned through committee analysis and discussed by the two parties who are involved.

Nothing has been settled on border security nor have the Dems gotten anything from it...

it is in EVERYONE'S BEST INTEREST to allow govt workers to go back to work.... this 3 year old tyrant in the oval office needs to be thrown out... the sooner the better for our whole nation imo.... but of course you know how I think about him already from previous discussions....

dude too funny, you want a win ahead of the negotiation. that isn't negotiating. duhhhhhh

And again, you wish to victimize 300 million people ahead of giving five bucks for security. what an asshole.

There is nothing like bargaining in good faith as a leftist.

I'm not a dude and have never wanted to be a dude, I have always been quite happy, being a dame/damsel!

there is no winning by holding government workers hostage and there is no negotiating being done on border security by doing it.... they have nothing to do with border security.

the negotiating begins when the president and congress begin talking and wheeling and dealing, without any hostages.

holding hostages, is cheating and stupid as stupid is imo....

Congress should not do this piece meal... it should be analyzed, reviewed, with a proposal in hand of what the president actually wants with border security and a cost/effective analysis, so they know how best to allocate the money.... and also to determine how much money for all of border security is needed, as congress does with all other appropriations....

The president is claiming this national security only to distract from the Trump campaign's collusion with the Russians coming out....
if it were a national security risk he would have shut the gvt down when republicans were in charge the past 2 years.... but HE DIDN'T.... this is simply a political ploy, to get the news off of what really is happening.

Did you have the same opinion when the government was shut down over DACA?

 

[bripat9643]

LOL!
Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's. Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42965.pdf
https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2017-Dec/BP Total Apps, Mexico, OTM FY2000-FY2017.pdf
So when looking at illegal entry from individuals from Mexico since 2000, it is clear that it has drastically declined.

Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

Your claim was that:

First, there are fewer apprehensions because of the 700 miles of walls that has been built, showing that walls do work.

In reality, economic growth in countries of origin is the primary driver between declines in illegal immigration. Mexico is simply the best example of this happening, which is why I bring it up.

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Where have I ignored the loss of human life? It's tragic that people are fleeing their home countries searching for a better life are dying on the journey. Where have I said otherwise? Do you think a wall does anything to stop people seeking asylum? Might want to look into how asylum seeking works.

You can CLAIM it's economic growth while providing no proof. Your problem is that there is NO proof of your claim because the "economic growth you tout is lackluster at best and non-existent at worst.

And you ignore the loss of human life by failing to acknowledge it as an issue. And, asylum seekers have no more right to enter this nation illegally than anyone else. Your arguments are hollow.

I disagree.... only because there are American companies and businesses making money off of the cheap labor, giving them more profit, and the profit of these businesses is taxable, and what is left over, is there for them to spend in the economy.... so the illegal may not seem to be paying in to taxes or spending much in the economy when you look at only them, but when you put in what the businesses are making off of them.... it is a whole nuther story.... imo.

The guy is making an argument that the economies of the nations of Central America, South America and Mexico are improving so much that the incentive to come to the USA was dwindling, not that there's no benefit to illegal immigrants who come to the USA. I would argue such benefit to the USA is based on immorality (as it requires the alien to be taken advantage of and abused) but the benefit you describe does exist.

In Mexico, it has improved some... but imo, NOT those Central American countries... they are extremely depressed.

to some degree, I think Mexicans coming here has slowed because we were in the great recession... jobs were not available here... plus we have doubled border patrol and INS, built or repaired 700 miles of wall, added all kinds of technology the past 10 years...it's hard to say which one has affected the lower illegal numbers the most...

You're delusional. We are not in a recession since Trump got elected. the 700 miles doesn't exist.

 

[Lesh]

Sorry, dingbat, but taking hostages is exactly how you negotiate.

That's how CRIMINALS negotiate

 

[Polishprince]

Unbelievable that the broad can be this callous. Donald J. Trump has a plan- to build a wall- to help stem this. And it only costs $5B. Sure, it won't eliminate all illegal alienage and all drug odds.

But if it reduces the number of deaths to 90,000 or even 90,999, its well worth every penny IMHO.

And the facts are that walls work, the anti-terror wall in Israel is more than 90% effective.

Disgusting: Nancy Pelosi Calls 66,000 Opioid Deaths And 25,000 Illegal Alien Murderers A “Manufactured Crisis”

 

[bripat9643]

Sorry, dingbat, but taking hostages is exactly how you negotiate.

That's how CRIMINALS negotiate

The Dims are criminals.

 

[Care4all]

Sorry, dingbat, but taking hostages is exactly how you negotiate

maybe in a criminal mob boss's or terrorist's world.... but for the president of the United States? Come on!!!! sheesh....

 

[hunarcy]

LOL!
Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's. Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Pretty funny. Mexico's "economic growth" is as lackluster as Obama's.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42965.pdf
https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2017-Dec/BP Total Apps, Mexico, OTM FY2000-FY2017.pdf
So when looking at illegal entry from individuals from Mexico since 2000, it is clear that it has drastically declined.

Further, most of the people coming here from Central America care little about Mexico's "economic growth".

Your claim was that:

First, there are fewer apprehensions because of the 700 miles of walls that has been built, showing that walls do work.

In reality, economic growth in countries of origin is the primary driver between declines in illegal immigration. Mexico is simply the best example of this happening, which is why I bring it up.

It's always funny to see people who dismiss the situation as "not a crisis" ignore the loss of human life and then pretend they are just as caring as everyone else because they have "no problem with people seeking asylum" when the facts are that people who come here illegally are dying on the journey north and after crossing the border illegally because they have no water or supplies.

Where have I ignored the loss of human life? It's tragic that people are fleeing their home countries searching for a better life are dying on the journey. Where have I said otherwise? Do you think a wall does anything to stop people seeking asylum? Might want to look into how asylum seeking works.

You can CLAIM it's economic growth while providing no proof. Your problem is that there is NO proof of your claim because the "economic growth you tout is lackluster at best and non-existent at worst.

And you ignore the loss of human life by failing to acknowledge it as an issue. And, asylum seekers have no more right to enter this nation illegally than anyone else. Your arguments are hollow.

I disagree.... only because there are American companies and businesses making money off of the cheap labor, giving them more profit, and the profit of these businesses is taxable, and what is left over, is there for them to spend in the economy.... so the illegal may not seem to be paying in to taxes or spending much in the economy when you look at only them, but when you put in what the businesses are making off of them.... it is a whole nuther story.... imo.

The guy is making an argument that the economies of the nations of Central America, South America and Mexico are improving so much that the incentive to come to the USA was dwindling, not that there's no benefit to illegal immigrants who come to the USA. I would argue such benefit to the USA is based on immorality (as it requires the alien to be taken advantage of and abused) but the benefit you describe does exist.

In Mexico, it has improved some... but imo, NOT those Central American countries... they are extremely depressed.

to some degree, I think Mexicans coming here has slowed because we were in the great recession... jobs were not available here... plus we have doubled border patrol and INS, built or repaired 700 miles of wall, added all kinds of technology the past 10 years...it's hard to say which one has affected the lower illegal numbers the most...

You are correct! But, it's safe to say that the "economic growth" of Mexico is not a factor in the decreased migration at the border.