Farmers on welfare ... U.S. Soybean Exporters Might Find Painful Lesson In Chicken Exports To Russia

[flacaltenn]

China does to everyone what they do to us. Would it not have been better to have some allies when we went into a trade war with China instead of pissing off everyone at the same time?

Yup.. Would have been nice.. How about the EU?? Their system is so closed and over-regulated, they're almost as bad as the genuine rip-off artists in China.. Maybe NOW with some better trade agreements and our OWN network of trusted partners --- we WILL have allies in the future...

 

[Harpy Eagle]

But dude, he's owning libs...

Donald Trump owns GOP lawmakers who infest his anus. But he doesn't trust any of the GOP lawmakers because owning someone by fear of having their future destroyed by Trump and his howling hordes is causing Trump to be fearful that the worms might turn one day.

Well, I'm from Idaho.
We produce 30 pct of the country's sugar
We produce 30 pct of the country"s potatoes
We are the leading state exporter of fish

From what I've seen you're full of it.

None of which are items we export much of and thus did not get too much damage from the stupid ass trade war.

Not so fast there Gator San...

https://www.thepacker.com/article/us-potato-exports-set-record-2017
U.S. potato and potato product exports grew 4.58% in volume and 4.63% in value in 2017 compared to 2016, according to Potatoes USA.

Fresh potato exports were up 6% in 2017 while frozen and chip exports up 1%, according to a news release.

On a fresh weight equivalent basis, Potatoes USA said frozen potatoes account for 53% of total potato exports, with dehydrated exports at 24% and fresh accounting for 15%. Calculated on the fresh weight equivalent measure, about 20% of U.S. potato output is exported, according to the potato promotion group.

Exports of all U.S. potatoes and potato products reached a record $1.76 billion for the July 2016-June 2017 marketing year.

U.S. potato exports up across the board during first quarter - Spudman

U.S. fresh, frozen and dehy potato exports saw significant growth during the first quarter of the July 2019-to-June 2020 marketing year, reports Potatoes USA. This continues the growth seen at the end of last marketing year and is in lieu of the continuing trade issues in Asia.

Frozen
Exports of frozen potato products increased 9% in volume and 10% in value to $305,045,624.

• The volume growth was driven by a 58% increase to the Middle East, 42% increase to the Philippines and 19% increase to Central America.
• The elimination of the retaliatory tariff on fries entering Mexico resulted in a 7% increase, less of a rebound than anticipated.
• Exports to Japan were up 2% as product from the EU, New Zealand and Canada now enjoy tariff concessions into this market.
• U.S. exports to China declined -4% as the U.S. product incurs a 15% retaliatory tariff into that market.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Seems like potatoes are just as fungible as oil.. And NEW markets have compensated for any loss to Chinese imports...

Ag exports for that year were 143 billion...so potatoes did not even make up 2% of it.

Thanks for verifying my comments.

 

[flacaltenn]

But dude, he's owning libs...

Donald Trump owns GOP lawmakers who infest his anus. But he doesn't trust any of the GOP lawmakers because owning someone by fear of having their future destroyed by Trump and his howling hordes is causing Trump to be fearful that the worms might turn one day.

Well, I'm from Idaho.
We produce 30 pct of the country's sugar
We produce 30 pct of the country"s potatoes
We are the leading state exporter of fish

From what I've seen you're full of it.

None of which are items we export much of and thus did not get too much damage from the stupid ass trade war.

Not so fast there Gator San...

https://www.thepacker.com/article/us-potato-exports-set-record-2017
U.S. potato and potato product exports grew 4.58% in volume and 4.63% in value in 2017 compared to 2016, according to Potatoes USA.

Fresh potato exports were up 6% in 2017 while frozen and chip exports up 1%, according to a news release.

On a fresh weight equivalent basis, Potatoes USA said frozen potatoes account for 53% of total potato exports, with dehydrated exports at 24% and fresh accounting for 15%. Calculated on the fresh weight equivalent measure, about 20% of U.S. potato output is exported, according to the potato promotion group.

Exports of all U.S. potatoes and potato products reached a record $1.76 billion for the July 2016-June 2017 marketing year.

U.S. potato exports up across the board during first quarter - Spudman

U.S. fresh, frozen and dehy potato exports saw significant growth during the first quarter of the July 2019-to-June 2020 marketing year, reports Potatoes USA. This continues the growth seen at the end of last marketing year and is in lieu of the continuing trade issues in Asia.

Frozen
Exports of frozen potato products increased 9% in volume and 10% in value to $305,045,624.

• The volume growth was driven by a 58% increase to the Middle East, 42% increase to the Philippines and 19% increase to Central America.
• The elimination of the retaliatory tariff on fries entering Mexico resulted in a 7% increase, less of a rebound than anticipated.
• Exports to Japan were up 2% as product from the EU, New Zealand and Canada now enjoy tariff concessions into this market.
• U.S. exports to China declined -4% as the U.S. product incurs a 15% retaliatory tariff into that market.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Seems like potatoes are just as fungible as oil.. And NEW markets have compensated for any loss to Chinese imports...

Ag exports for that year were 143 billion...so potatoes did not even make up 2% of it.

Thanks for verifying my comments.

But the potato market LOST 4 and 6% a year because of China imports and did NOT feel a pinch or an itch or even a buzz.. The HYPE about impacts from this scuffle with China are overblown and not well understood...

 

[tyroneweaver]

But dude, he's owning libs...

Donald Trump owns GOP lawmakers who infest his anus. But he doesn't trust any of the GOP lawmakers because owning someone by fear of having their future destroyed by Trump and his howling hordes is causing Trump to be fearful that the worms might turn one day.

Well, I'm from Idaho.
We produce 30 pct of the country's sugar
We produce 30 pct of the country"s potatoes
We are the leading state exporter of fish

From what I've seen you're full of it.

None of which are items we export much of and thus did not get too much damage from the stupid ass trade war.

Not so fast there Gator San...

https://www.thepacker.com/article/us-potato-exports-set-record-2017
U.S. potato and potato product exports grew 4.58% in volume and 4.63% in value in 2017 compared to 2016, according to Potatoes USA.

Fresh potato exports were up 6% in 2017 while frozen and chip exports up 1%, according to a news release.

On a fresh weight equivalent basis, Potatoes USA said frozen potatoes account for 53% of total potato exports, with dehydrated exports at 24% and fresh accounting for 15%. Calculated on the fresh weight equivalent measure, about 20% of U.S. potato output is exported, according to the potato promotion group.

Exports of all U.S. potatoes and potato products reached a record $1.76 billion for the July 2016-June 2017 marketing year.

U.S. potato exports up across the board during first quarter - Spudman

U.S. fresh, frozen and dehy potato exports saw significant growth during the first quarter of the July 2019-to-June 2020 marketing year, reports Potatoes USA. This continues the growth seen at the end of last marketing year and is in lieu of the continuing trade issues in Asia.

Frozen
Exports of frozen potato products increased 9% in volume and 10% in value to $305,045,624.

• The volume growth was driven by a 58% increase to the Middle East, 42% increase to the Philippines and 19% increase to Central America.
• The elimination of the retaliatory tariff on fries entering Mexico resulted in a 7% increase, less of a rebound than anticipated.
• Exports to Japan were up 2% as product from the EU, New Zealand and Canada now enjoy tariff concessions into this market.
• U.S. exports to China declined -4% as the U.S. product incurs a 15% retaliatory tariff into that market.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Seems like potatoes are just as fungible as oil.. And NEW markets have compensated for any loss to Chinese imports...

Ag exports for that year were 143 billion...so potatoes did not even make up 2% of it.

Thanks for verifying my comments.

I have inside information that you're going to be paying more for french fries in the near future.
See if I'm right.

 

[eagle1462010]

Donald Trump owns GOP lawmakers who infest his anus. But he doesn't trust any of the GOP lawmakers because owning someone by fear of having their future destroyed by Trump and his howling hordes is causing Trump to be fearful that the worms might turn one day.

Well, I'm from Idaho.
We produce 30 pct of the country's sugar
We produce 30 pct of the country"s potatoes
We are the leading state exporter of fish

From what I've seen you're full of it.

None of which are items we export much of and thus did not get too much damage from the stupid ass trade war.

Why do you worship China..

I do not. Just stating the facts.

Why do you worship Trump?

ya we have a secret cult on this forum. We have secret hand shakes and talk to one another on the dark web
If someone post,"the chair is against the wall, the chair is against the wall."
Ya better run like hell.

 

[sparky]

I've always been for global free trade. And will be..

It kinda ruined my career, because I was working night shift just to take communcations from China for factory issues or supply chain issues.. I was even essentially "working for them"...

Free Trade ,and those who believe in free trade believe in a market of merit flacaltenn

They believe that, cloaked in the guise capitalism ,the market is self adjusting and self curing , cream rises to the top, etc

Unfortunately , nothing could possibly be further from the truth. and i don't mean to be cruel, but admitting you ended up a minion of it all...for gawd's sake....

~S~

 

[Denizen]

Have no doubt that Donald Trump will rescue his associates and friends from loss of deductibility of State/Local Tax by either increasing debt further or finding some other way to separate his foolish followers from the hard-earned cash.

That's pretty easy to do when they think the exporters pay the tariffs to the US Treasury.

Hardly .........the Importers pay the Tariffs or shop for a place without tariffs..............

Tariffs are a tax on goods..............but I simply don't care because they are having effects on China who has been growing big time and are our biggest military threat in the world..............They have been using that wealth to advance their military which we may one day have to fight.

Our goal under Trump is not Globalism...........but trying to boost our jobs for average Americans here.

Subsidies on businesses in a Trade War is common practice to make sure they don't go under while we do hard negotiation.......and this is being done during a time of good economics here in the United States........which is the best time to do it.

Under Hillary .....she would have signed the TPP..........and did NOTHING about the abuses of China at all...........and that is not in our best interest here.

Globalist and those gambling on the markets may say otherwise........oh well.

On another thread denizen's chili is the authority on psychology
Now he's an agricultural expert.
Hillarious, if ya ask me.

Your agricultural expert?

 

[Denizen]

One of my smarter clients (the one doing large scale Industrial LED) got lured into looking at Chinese manufacturers, went over there and a month later his corporate servers were getting slammed by China intrusion.. HE got the message. Redesigned his OWN server farm and security. No clouds, no ISP. Put every Inet machine under Ubuntu Op System.. And then he and I rethought the entire design concept for large scale Industrial LED lighting fixtures.. He re-purposed a large chunk of his floor space to manufacture as much as he could here in the US... And held onto his designs and IProperty.

Tell me it ain't worth $10 on a bicycle or $5 on a lamp if it came to that....

On a $10 bicycle or a $1 lamp?

You miss the mark widely. One of China's huge advantages is the short time from concept to market.

While your "smarter client" was pondering the market was already changing.

 

[Denizen]

Donald Trump owns GOP lawmakers who infest his anus. But he doesn't trust any of the GOP lawmakers because owning someone by fear of having their future destroyed by Trump and his howling hordes is causing Trump to be fearful that the worms might turn one day.

Well, I'm from Idaho.
We produce 30 pct of the country's sugar
We produce 30 pct of the country"s potatoes
We are the leading state exporter of fish

From what I've seen you're full of it.

None of which are items we export much of and thus did not get too much damage from the stupid ass trade war.

Not so fast there Gator San...

https://www.thepacker.com/article/us-potato-exports-set-record-2017
U.S. potato and potato product exports grew 4.58% in volume and 4.63% in value in 2017 compared to 2016, according to Potatoes USA.

Fresh potato exports were up 6% in 2017 while frozen and chip exports up 1%, according to a news release.

On a fresh weight equivalent basis, Potatoes USA said frozen potatoes account for 53% of total potato exports, with dehydrated exports at 24% and fresh accounting for 15%. Calculated on the fresh weight equivalent measure, about 20% of U.S. potato output is exported, according to the potato promotion group.

Exports of all U.S. potatoes and potato products reached a record $1.76 billion for the July 2016-June 2017 marketing year.

U.S. potato exports up across the board during first quarter - Spudman

U.S. fresh, frozen and dehy potato exports saw significant growth during the first quarter of the July 2019-to-June 2020 marketing year, reports Potatoes USA. This continues the growth seen at the end of last marketing year and is in lieu of the continuing trade issues in Asia.

Frozen
Exports of frozen potato products increased 9% in volume and 10% in value to $305,045,624.

• The volume growth was driven by a 58% increase to the Middle East, 42% increase to the Philippines and 19% increase to Central America.
• The elimination of the retaliatory tariff on fries entering Mexico resulted in a 7% increase, less of a rebound than anticipated.
• Exports to Japan were up 2% as product from the EU, New Zealand and Canada now enjoy tariff concessions into this market.
• U.S. exports to China declined -4% as the U.S. product incurs a 15% retaliatory tariff into that market.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Seems like potatoes are just as fungible as oil.. And NEW markets have compensated for any loss to Chinese imports...

Ag exports for that year were 143 billion...so potatoes did not even make up 2% of it.

Thanks for verifying my comments.

I have inside information that you're going to be paying more for french fries in the near future.
See if I'm right.

You are evidently a McDonald's University alumnus.

 

[Andylusion]

Again... give me an alternative.

Pay the bills. After all, so many people here say they're doing very well in the Trump economy...

Well as soon as "Pay the bills" runs for office, I'll vote for him.

Until then, I have to vote for who will actually win, which is a choice between left-wing bankrupt-the-country-with-endless-programs, and Trump.

So far, Trump is the better choice.

When you actually give me a better alternative, I'll consider it. But I don't see "pay the bills" on the ballot.

And honestly, how about "cut the spending" if we're going to make up mythical candidates.

 

[Denizen]

Again... give me an alternative.

Pay the bills. After all, so many people here say they're doing very well in the Trump economy...

Well as soon as "Pay the bills" runs for office, I'll vote for him.

Until then, I have to vote for who will actually win, which is a choice between left-wing bankrupt-the-country-with-endless-programs, and Trump.

So far, Trump is the better choice.

When you actually give me a better alternative, I'll consider it. But I don't see "pay the bills" on the ballot.

And honestly, how about "cut the spending" if we're going to make up mythical candidates.

Trump is the most successful bankrupt ever in the USA. He is currently bankrupting the USA with GDP growth < 2% and debt growth ~5% of GDP.

Pappy Fred is not here to bail out son Donny with cash in black plastic bags.

In Donald Trump's casinos, the house loses and Donald Trump has brought that MO to the office of POTUS.

 

[flacaltenn]

Free Trade ,and those who believe in free trade believe in a market of merit flacaltenn

They believe that, cloaked in the guise capitalism ,the market is self adjusting and self curing , cream rises to the top, etc

You're a real kill joy type...

Markets HAVE merits... The entire ticker tape is based on MILLIONS of estimates of what stuff is worth.. Hype and fraud tend to get removed eventually without huge statist interventions..

And the markets ARE self-adjusting and self curing to a large extent.. Bubbles and corrections happen even in the most fine tuned engineering servo designs. But unlike designing feedbacks and controls for a physical process, the potential "excitations" for a market are unpredictable and sometimes unforseeable..

The few times interventions are required, they are applied haphazardly and clumsily and often PROLONG or ENLARGE the damage..

BUT ----------------------

There are externalities to Capitalism and the free markets. And the one were suffering thru now is the transition from the Industrial Revolution to the age of robotics and automated industry.. This will change the meaning of a job as anyone of us knows it.. We got sucked into a transition period of "cheap labor"... This happened because of the prevailing view that the US would "allow" the 3rd world to make our socks, basketballs and mobile hand toys -- while WE focused on the difficult things. Like pharma, nanotech, robotics and AI... The problem was that capital FLED to the cheap labor arenas and got mired there. While WE -- did not MAKE those investments as heartily as we should have..

Cheap labor is a passing fad.. China knew this back about 2000.. Even while they were building dormitory style plants and importing workers from the hinderlands, they were ALSO pouring major effort into manufacturing automation.. And we lost that lead... Because the capital for manufacturing had shifted to Asia... China was bringing about 4000 robotic assembly lines a year on-line. And they INCREASED their profit by not having to house and feed unskilled or semi-skilled labor.. That phase of cheap labor is in the rear view mirror and any manufacturing we bring back home will be 21st century style...

Now -- the market will adjust.. With or without China and the tariff war... But manufacturing or jobs will never be the same.. And the UPHEAVAL that "the market caused" (it didn't CAUSE it -- it reacted to it) will be much less than the upheaval from "the Statist Hand" of government directed "Great Leaps Forward"... The rest of the disruption will be MUCH less than the disruption from such fantasies as the "Green New Deal" or redistributionist rechanneling of wealth and capitol from socialist plans that exceed the ability of the morons involved to design...

 

[flacaltenn]

On a $10 bicycle or a $1 lamp?

What rock or planet you living under that has brand new $10 bicycles or $1 lamps... I think you've been shopping mostly at Salvation Army.. Which disqualifies you from this entire discussion..

Merry Christmas anyway to anybody I've attacked today.. If you HAVE Christmas on your planet..

 

[flacaltenn]

Merry Christmas anyway to anybody I've attacked today..

Have no doubt that Donald Trump will rescue his associates and friends from loss of deductibility of State/Local Tax by either increasing debt further or finding some other way to separate his foolish followers from the hard-earned cash.

That's pretty easy to do when they think the exporters pay the tariffs to the US Treasury.

Hardly .........the Importers pay the Tariffs or shop for a place without tariffs..............

Tariffs are a tax on goods..............but I simply don't care because they are having effects on China who has been growing big time and are our biggest military threat in the world..............They have been using that wealth to advance their military which we may one day have to fight.

Our goal under Trump is not Globalism...........but trying to boost our jobs for average Americans here.

Subsidies on businesses in a Trade War is common practice to make sure they don't go under while we do hard negotiation.......and this is being done during a time of good economics here in the United States........which is the best time to do it.

Under Hillary .....she would have signed the TPP..........and did NOTHING about the abuses of China at all...........and that is not in our best interest here.

Globalist and those gambling on the markets may say otherwise........oh well.

On another thread denizen's chili is the authority on psychology
Now he's an agricultural expert.
Hillarious, if ya ask me.

Your agricultural expert?

Pretty sure that Tyrone IS actually an agriculture expert... And that he DOES dress like the guy in that picture..

 

[Andylusion]

One of my smarter clients (the one doing large scale Industrial LED) got lured into looking at Chinese manufacturers, went over there and a month later his corporate servers were getting slammed by China intrusion.. HE got the message. Redesigned his OWN server farm and security. No clouds, no ISP. Put every Inet machine under Ubuntu Op System.. And then he and I rethought the entire design concept for large scale Industrial LED lighting fixtures.. He re-purposed a large chunk of his floor space to manufacture as much as he could here in the US... And held onto his designs and IProperty.

Tell me it ain't worth $10 on a bicycle or $5 on a lamp if it came to that....

I don't think that you necessarily need to ask for help from China, to get slammed by Chinese hackers.

That said, I don't support IP to begin with. Intellectually Property is that concept that you can control 'thought' using the power of government. I don't agree with that. Now I get it that you can't slap your label on my product, and sell it.

But the idea that no one else on a planet of 8 Billion plus people, that no one else anywhere can ever have the same thought you do.... to me is ridiculous.

Let's set that aside, since it isn't going to change anyway.

So I worked for a company that produced custom industrial printers. By industrial, I mean some had been in operation since the 70s. Printers designed to operate for a very long time, by computer standards.

We had a customer that wanted a printer made for them. Our executives ran the numbers, and ran them again, and ran them a 3rd time. All of our printers are assembled by hand, in our Columbus Ohio location. We went to the customer with an offer, and the customer rejected it. Too expensive. We made another offer, and the customer rejected that too.

Eventually the customer told that if the product was too expensive to build, that they simply would forego having the printer. They would simply do without.

This left us with one of three options. We could simply lose the account, and not have any work. We could do the work at our Columbus location and lose money on every single unit built. Or.... we could outsource. In this case, outsource to China.

We choose China. We already had cut the production staff by 3/4ths. Production was low, and the company was barely breaking even. If we got the job, and lost money on every unit, we would merely accelerate that process.

If we lost the account, that still wouldn't bring work for the production staff, and the trend would continue.

Outsourcing, really sucks. Having to fly to China, having translation errors in schematics, having to deal with supply issues, because we can get parts they often can't. We requested a test run of three units, and three utterly unique machines showed up. From the same instructions, they built 3 printers different from each other.

But here's the deal.... either we built those printers in China, and made a profit.... or we simply didn't build them. We were not outsourcing to China, because we were ticked off that our profits were only X per unit, and we wanted X+10¢.

We were outsourcing to China, because it was either that, or don't do anything.

I suspect that a lot of companies are making that choice. The problem with people on the outside is, you look at the company making profits, and then assume the only reason to outsource is to make even more profits. Like our company was still making money... but that specific product line, was either outsource or make nothing.

And another issue, is that people on your side of this argument seem to think that if you cut off imports, and jack up prices, that people are still going to buy the product. Well I can tell you from first hand experience, that isn't the case. You jack up the price, and customers can, and will, do without.

When I first got out of college, I would go to Chipotle every day for lunch. You could get a chicken burrito for just $4.25. Today I don't go to Chipotle anymore, because a burrito is $7. I'm not paying $7 for a cheap burrito. That's insane. People can, and do, choose to go without. This idea that customers will simply spend more money if the prices goes up... that's nuts. Why do you think Walmart is so successful? Prices are low there. All the other stores with the much higher prices... go out of business.

 

[Andylusion]

Again... give me an alternative.

Pay the bills. After all, so many people here say they're doing very well in the Trump economy...

I never understand what the economy has to do with this topic.

Michael Jackson made by most estimates a billion dollars in his life time. Before he died, he was on the verge of bankruptcy.

The economy is in fact, doing very well.

What does that have to do with government over spending? Cut the spending. The problem is not government income, or the economy.

Again, again..... I don't see "pay the bills" on the voting ballot. I see people demanding we spend drastically more money than we already are..... and Trump.

Give me an alternative. Give me an option to vote for that is better than Trump, and I'll consider it. None of the options you have offered thus far, are better than Trump.

 

[Andylusion]

I've always been for global free trade. And will be..

It kinda ruined my career, because I was working night shift just to take communcations from China for factory issues or supply chain issues.. I was even essentially "working for them"...

Free Trade ,and those who believe in free trade believe in a market of merit flacaltenn

They believe that, cloaked in the guise capitalism ,the market is self adjusting and self curing , cream rises to the top, etc

Unfortunately , nothing could possibly be further from the truth. and i don't mean to be cruel, but admitting you ended up a minion of it all...for gawd's sake....

~S~

That's ironic given that every single time capitalism is tried, exactly what you deny happens.

And conversely every single time socialism is tried, the reverse happens.

 

[sparky]

The economy is in fact, doing very well.

We've always heard that as long as our rice bowls are full Andy

~S~

 

[sparky]

I've always been for global free trade. And will be..

It kinda ruined my career, because I was working night shift just to take communcations from China for factory issues or supply chain issues.. I was even essentially "working for them"...

Free Trade ,and those who believe in free trade believe in a market of merit flacaltenn

They believe that, cloaked in the guise capitalism ,the market is self adjusting and self curing , cream rises to the top, etc

Unfortunately , nothing could possibly be further from the truth. and i don't mean to be cruel, but admitting you ended up a minion of it all...for gawd's sake....

~S~

That's ironic given that every single time capitalism is tried, exactly what you deny happens.

And conversely every single time socialism is tried, the reverse happens.

Because any given system can succumb to greed , where the wealth 'redistributes' to the top 1%

~S~

 

[Andylusion]

Again... give me an alternative.

Pay the bills. After all, so many people here say they're doing very well in the Trump economy...

Well as soon as "Pay the bills" runs for office, I'll vote for him.

Until then, I have to vote for who will actually win, which is a choice between left-wing bankrupt-the-country-with-endless-programs, and Trump.

So far, Trump is the better choice.

When you actually give me a better alternative, I'll consider it. But I don't see "pay the bills" on the ballot.

And honestly, how about "cut the spending" if we're going to make up mythical candidates.

Trump is the most successful bankrupt ever in the USA. He is currently bankrupting the USA with GDP growth < 2% and debt growth ~5% of GDP.

Pappy Fred is not here to bail out son Donny with cash in black plastic bags.

In Donald Trump's casinos, the house loses and Donald Trump has brought that MO to the office of POTUS.

The US was already bankrupt 5 to 10 years ago.

The amount of money we owed, was far greater than we can logically pay, before Trump was ever in office.

That said, I agree he isn't helping. But again..... what is your alternative? Green New Deal, where we tear down and rebuild, every building in the country to make it eco-friendly? Maybe Warren, who just said "There is always more money!" when asked how she would pay for her plans? Or Sanders, free healthcare, food, housing, education?

Seriously.... You can b!tch and moan like a teenager, but until you have a better choice, you have no real point to make. Give me an alternative.

You put up some guy to run against Trump that wants to cut all those programs, and social security, and medicare, and so on..... I will vote for that man. I will gladly vote against Trump, if you have someone willing to cut the spending. I'm all for it.

But none of your guys wants to do that. They are all pro-baby-murder, and hate Israel, and want to destroy the culture with their "I can't even figure out what is between my legs" belief system, and on the government budget, want to blow the nation appart with free-everything.

Basically the entire Democrat party, is twice as bad as Trump on the budget, but without any good qualities at all. Like all the good things Trump has done, the Democrats oppose... and on the one thing he's done really terrible on... you are twice as in favor of over-spending as he is.