Feds start fight with American Patriots in Oregon

[JakeStarkey]

Liminal, understand that the anti-government bitching about federal lands is unfounded, is illegitimate. If they want to change the rules, the can contact their legislators, they can vote, but if they act criminally, they are treated as criminals. End of story.

 

[Liminal]

I realize they have no legitimate claim to BLM land. Many of these dim wits seem completely unaware of how these resources are used, they apparently think some kind of libertarian free for all would work just fine.

 

[JakeStarkey]

They want a land grab just like in the days of the Native Americans. Now We the People substitute for the Native Americans, and the criminals want to grab our land. Then they cry when the Finecums die. Just stupid.

 

[Liminal]

They want a land grab just like in the days of the Native Americans. Now We the People substitute for the Native Americans, and the criminals want to grab our land. Then they cry when the Finecums die. Just stupid.

They've been watching too many old westerns. Maybe they think cattlemen can dominate the open range the way used to......with guns.

 

[bodecea]

Eyewitness Says Feds Ambushed Bundys, 100 Shots Fired at Passengers, Lavoy Finicum Killed With 'Hands Up'

Yeah right..... The witness Victoria is part of the group. What kind of credibility is that? 100 shots? then we should see more dead bodies instead of just one.
I think you are in the twilight zone. Come back down so you will have some common sense.

There has got to be tons of video from dash cams, body cams, etc.

 

[bodecea]

Patriots chose the wrong hill to defend. Be patient grasshoppers, as there will be many, many more hills to defend, soon.

Make sure it includes a 7-11...they've got snacks.

 

[bodecea]

I'd ask which of our Bundy-fan posters this guy is, if we weren't already well aware that none of our Bundy-fans here would ever get off of their asses. It's from the livestream that the little tech geek traitor with the goatee set up. The highlights are the crazy dude screaming that all militia and military and law enforcement need to drive over and help them, and shoot anyone who tries to stop them, and that they're traitors if they don't show up.

Bundy fans, be proud. He's the face of your movement now.

Obviously he had plenty of snacks.

 

[bodecea]

What shoes? Are they the victims of government tyranny? What are their grievances? why can't they petition their elected officials and seek the changes they desire through our established political and legal processes? I have grievances too, but I'm not inclined to engage in an armed protest against the government. I'm not inclined to support others who use threats of armed violence as a means to get what they want. That's terrorism.

They feel they are victims of government tyranny.
Imbalance of Federal Land Ownership Sheds Light on Oregon Militia | Big Think
Armed men, led by Bundy brothers, take over federal building in rural Oregon

I am not asking you to support what they are saying. I'm simply stating that choosing to ignore it is simply going to amplify it.

No one is ignoring it. The protesters are pissed they are not getting their way. Tough.

Two guys do time and are released. Judge says, "Whoops! Bring them boys back in." and you cannot fathom how screwed over they feel?

You thinking they should trust the system?

So the remedy is to grab federal property that does not belong to them? The remedy is to go to court.

Two of them did that. Why would they trust a system where they felt they were jacked?

I'm not asking you to agree with what they did.

So...what you are saying is that any one who feels they've been jacked by the courts should go grab some federal land with guns.....gee, that's a fair number of people.

 

[bodecea]

Reports are a bunch of ex-Green Berets are coming to the militias aid.

 

[bodecea]

Reports are a bunch of ex-Green Berets are coming to the militias aid.

And a bunch of Seals are reinforcing the feds. Grow the fuck up.

Are you saying the Berets training is not equal to the Seals?

That is correct. And it's SEALs....not furry aquatic animals.

 

[Old Rocks]

<snip> Half a million government loan which we, the taxpayers, will never see paid back.

I asked you and everyone else who posted this claim in the other thread to PROVE THIS.

You have yet to do so.

[FONT=Benton Sans, Arial, sans-serif]Ammon Bundy: His history and a $500,000 federal loan[/FONT]
Throughout the last few years, records show Bundy has registered numerous businesses with Arizona related to heavy equipment, steel products and fleet management. He's currently listed as manager and owner of Valet Fleet Service, which provides repair and maintenance services to vehicle fleets, and he's pictured smiling alongside a semi-truck on the company's website. He said his company has been successful for 18 years but that it did face tough times during the recession.
Though Bundy may not recognize the government's authority when it comes to land ownership, his company benefited from at least one federal program.
Valet Fleet Service received a $530,000 loan from the Small Business Administration in 2010. The loan was awarded through a program geared for companies "unable to obtain financing in the private credit marketplace."
Representatives with the agency could not immediately provide details on the status of the loan or its terms.
Bundy shrugs off any criticism over the help.
"That's no handout, it's a 6-percent interest loan," he said, adding that he's up-to-date on the payments. "It's not welfare, it's not a grant.
About two seconds on Google

 

[bodecea]

Help

Shot him with his hands up and him on his knees. Another patriot murdered by the US government. RIP brother.

linky no worky

It worked for me, but went to the end of the video. In any event, the story in it has been clarified by the young woman who was there.

And what will you say if the video puts the lie to what she said?

 

[Old Rocks]

<snip> Half a million government loan which we, the taxpayers, will never see paid back.

I asked you and everyone else who posted this claim in the other thread to PROVE THIS.

You have yet to do so.

Nearly every part of the Bundy family’s business is funded by government welfare programs.
The armed militiamen currently occupying the Malheur Wildlife Refuge in Oregon have attempted to portray an image of themselves as rugged, independent Americans rejecting government interference in their businesses. But nearly every part of their existence as ranchers is made possible by government welfare programs — even the building they’re depending on for shelter from the cold was built by federal tax dollars as part of the New Deal program. Here are just a few ways taxpayers are subsidizing the livelihoods of cattle ranchers like the Bundy family:
1. Ammon Bundy’s loan from the Small Business Administration

The Small Business Administration (SBA) offers a loan guarantee program for businesses that don’t qualify for assistance in the private credit market. As Mother Jones reported, Ammon Bundy — the ringleader of the Malheur takeover bemoaning federal overreach — got a $530,000 loan from the SBA in 2010 for his truck maintenance business in Arizona, costing taxpayers over $22,000. What the loan was used for or whether or not Bundy repaid it is not listed in public records.
2. The US government charges 93 percent less for cattle grazing than private landowners

One of the biggest gripes from cattle ranchers like Cliven Bundy and other Western cattlemen is that the federal government is bleeding ranchers dry with overpriced cattle grazing fees. But the opposite is true — in 2012, it cost roughly $1.35 a month for each cow to graze on federal land, as opposed to the average $20 per month charged by private landowners for cattle grazing.FiveThirtyEight.com illustrated the price difference in a graph:

If anybody is getting the raw end of the deal from the federal government’s cattle grazing prices, it’s the federal government. As of 2014, grazing fees only accounted for 15 percent of the total cost incurred for the Bureau of Land Management to manage land for cattle grazing. The other 85 percent comes from we, the taxpayers.
3. Ranchers get huge discounts on leases of public land

In Nevada, home of the Bundy family, 80 percent of the state’s land is owned by the federal government. But ranchers get to lease that land for their own private businesses at a huge discount. According to an investigation by The Atlantic, the lease discount program cost taxpayers anywhere from $52 million a year to $200 million, when accounting for all of the administrative overhead involved in managing the program.
4. Livestock farmers milk the “emergency” feed program even in non-drought years

Western states, like Nevada and Oregon, where ranchers like the Bundys reside, only produce roughly one-fifth of the nation’s beef supply, but require a considerable amount of taxpayer subsidies to stay afloat. The Atlantic estimates that the 11 Western states populated by ranchers eat up approximately $26 million per year.
5. Ranchers depend on big government assistance to keep livestock safe

The Bundys and other ranchers would have very little livestock to feed if it weren’t for the “animal damage control” program, in which federal employees kill off the nearby predators that present a danger to cattle. The Atlantic’s study of this program found that, again, Western ranchers are responsible for a disproportionate amount of taxpayer subsidies compared to the other 39 states:

In 1994 this program cost $55.9 million nationwide, of which roughly $22 million was spent on western livestock operations. The animals killed nationwide with this money included 163 black bears, 293 mountain lions, 1,928 bobcats, 8,973 foxes, and 85,571 coyotes.​

If the Bundy family really wanted the “independence” from government they claim to stand for, their businesses would be underwater. Ammon Bundy and his gang should thank their lucky stars to benefit from so much government assistance.
A bunch of ungrateful welfare wretches.

 

[charwin95]

Eyewitness Says Feds Ambushed Bundys, 100 Shots Fired at Passengers, Lavoy Finicum Killed With 'Hands Up'

Yeah right..... The witness Victoria is part of the group. What kind of credibility is that? 100 shots? then we should see more dead bodies instead of just one.
I think you are in the twilight zone. Come back down so you will have some common sense.

Then believe the same feds that shot a 14 year old in the back,a mother in the face unarmed,torched people to death at Waco. I DO NOT CARE.

Please have some common sense.

 

[SwimExpert]

The Hammonds were to be made an example of. That was made loud and clear.

An example that violent crime will not be tolerated? Sounds like a pretty good thing to make an example for to me.

 

[bodecea]

<snip> why can't they petition their elected officials and seek the changes they desire <snip>

Have you ever written your elected official(s)? Have you ever been to even a city council meeting?

My life's experience when I have done so to object to what they want to do is for them to tell me (paraphrased), we know better than you and we're going to do it anyway.

So...it's hard, it takes work and persistance, and you need to have many people on your side. Awwwwwwww

 

[bodecea]

Then write your legislators, <snip>

Please tell me how that works out for you.

It worked well, but took time and patience. Lots of time and patience and proving that the Constitutional law was on our side. But it worked well.

 

[bodecea]

View attachment 61373

I am reading through the comments A LOT of people are headed that way tomorrow...they Feds have blocked the roads and arrested a journalist not toeing the government propaganda line.

You're going, right? Please say yes.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

<snip> Half a million government loan which we, the taxpayers, will never see paid back.

I asked you and everyone else who posted this claim in the other thread to PROVE THIS.

You have yet to do so.

Nearly every part of the Bundy family’s business is funded by government welfare programs.
The armed militiamen currently occupying the Malheur Wildlife Refuge in Oregon have attempted to portray an image of themselves as rugged, independent Americans rejecting government interference in their businesses. But nearly every part of their existence as ranchers is made possible by government welfare programs — even the building they’re depending on for shelter from the cold was built by federal tax dollars as part of the New Deal program. Here are just a few ways taxpayers are subsidizing the livelihoods of cattle ranchers like the Bundy family:
1. Ammon Bundy’s loan from the Small Business Administration

The Small Business Administration (SBA) offers a loan guarantee program for businesses that don’t qualify for assistance in the private credit market. As Mother Jones reported, Ammon Bundy — the ringleader of the Malheur takeover bemoaning federal overreach — got a $530,000 loan from the SBA in 2010 for his truck maintenance business in Arizona, costing taxpayers over $22,000. What the loan was used for or whether or not Bundy repaid it is not listed in public records.
2. The US government charges 93 percent less for cattle grazing than private landowners

One of the biggest gripes from cattle ranchers like Cliven Bundy and other Western cattlemen is that the federal government is bleeding ranchers dry with overpriced cattle grazing fees. But the opposite is true — in 2012, it cost roughly $1.35 a month for each cow to graze on federal land, as opposed to the average $20 per month charged by private landowners for cattle grazing.FiveThirtyEight.com illustrated the price difference in a graph:

If anybody is getting the raw end of the deal from the federal government’s cattle grazing prices, it’s the federal government. As of 2014, grazing fees only accounted for 15 percent of the total cost incurred for the Bureau of Land Management to manage land for cattle grazing. The other 85 percent comes from we, the taxpayers.
3. Ranchers get huge discounts on leases of public land

In Nevada, home of the Bundy family, 80 percent of the state’s land is owned by the federal government. But ranchers get to lease that land for their own private businesses at a huge discount. According to an investigation by The Atlantic, the lease discount program cost taxpayers anywhere from $52 million a year to $200 million, when accounting for all of the administrative overhead involved in managing the program.
4. Livestock farmers milk the “emergency” feed program even in non-drought years

Western states, like Nevada and Oregon, where ranchers like the Bundys reside, only produce roughly one-fifth of the nation’s beef supply, but require a considerable amount of taxpayer subsidies to stay afloat. The Atlantic estimates that the 11 Western states populated by ranchers eat up approximately $26 million per year.
5. Ranchers depend on big government assistance to keep livestock safe

The Bundys and other ranchers would have very little livestock to feed if it weren’t for the “animal damage control” program, in which federal employees kill off the nearby predators that present a danger to cattle. The Atlantic’s study of this program found that, again, Western ranchers are responsible for a disproportionate amount of taxpayer subsidies compared to the other 39 states:

In 1994 this program cost $55.9 million nationwide, of which roughly $22 million was spent on western livestock operations. The animals killed nationwide with this money included 163 black bears, 293 mountain lions, 1,928 bobcats, 8,973 foxes, and 85,571 coyotes.​

If the Bundy family really wanted the “independence” from government they claim to stand for, their businesses would be underwater. Ammon Bundy and his gang should thank their lucky stars to benefit from so much government assistance.
A bunch of ungrateful welfare wretches.

And Finicum made $115K a year on the foster kids that he stated worked his ranch. IOW, slave labor who had no choice.

I've asked before but haven't seen an answer:

Can anyone say why these welfare queens should be given free land?

 

[teddyearp]

I love how Liberals accuse others of what THEY are doing.

Yeah, especially in this thread. . .