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You cannot discriminate against a protected class, which happens to include religion. You can certainly refuse as you please, but you will be in violation of the Oregon law and subject to the same penalties.
If I refused them access to my product, that would be discrimination according to the Oregon law. Controlling my product is not.
If refusing to write "Congratulations Monica and Denise" on a wedding cake is discrimination, how is refusing to write "Homosexuality is an abomination, sayeth the Lord" on a poster not discrimination?
Absolutely nothing wrong with saying you don't do writings on cakes. You don't have to do that. That is your choice as a business owner. What isn't your choice is restricting who is allowed to purchase your product.
But they do writings on cakes, just as the graphic artist does writing on posters. It is just that neither wants to do the particular writing. I notice you didn't answer my question. Why is one discrimination and the other isn't?
I already explained it to you. Refusing to write a certain phrase on a cake or whatever is not discriminating against a group of people. Refusing to provide your services to a certain group of people is discrimination.
Christians will just have to develop an underground network of services only available to Christians. The old Soviet Union had many such underground networks.
The provider will have an array of services publicly available, the public can make their choices from those.
"protecting" nothing but hurt feelings in this case, not actual harm.
You fainting flowers seem to be all big and tough when government does your dirty work, but being told "i'm sorry, we don't provide service X, please go to someone else" ZOMG, the vapors!!!!!
Jew's can't go into parks: sorry that's the law
Blacks have to use separate water fountains: sorry, that's the law
Buggery is illegal, sorry that's the law.
All of these laws were wrong at one time, so your appeal to authority is just that, appeal to the law without wanting to discuss the purpose and rightness of the law.
Completely comparable. In Nazi Germany it was the Jews. In Obama's America it's the Christians.
Really? So Obama is going to send 85% of the population off to the concentration camps in the year he has left.
Your argument is not bolstered by hysteria.
How about if they come around and make you choose between your morals and your livelihood?
So basically "follow MY moral code, and everything is OK"
It's easy to say you support "freedom" when you think it only means freedoms you agree with.
Again, why does going into business mean you lose your rights as an american without a compelling government interest?
If you take my car, I suffer harm. If my feelings are hurt but I still get the product I want with minimal additional effort, I am not harmed, or at least harmed much much less than someone facing a "bake or go away" choice that is an affront to their personal moral code.
What if they live and have family in Oregon?If you take my car, I suffer harm. If my feelings are hurt but I still get the product I want with minimal additional effort, I am not harmed, or at least harmed much much less than someone facing a "bake or go away" choice that is an affront to their personal moral code.
Then they should have opened their bakery in one of the 31 states that doesn't include sexual orientation as a covered group by the PA Laws.
You cannot discriminate against a protected class, which happens to include religion. You can certainly refuse as you please, but you will be in violation of the Oregon law and subject to the same penalties.
If I refused them access to my product, that would be discrimination according to the Oregon law. Controlling my product is not.
If refusing to write "Congratulations Monica and Denise" on a wedding cake is discrimination, how is refusing to write "Homosexuality is an abomination, sayeth the Lord" on a poster not discrimination?
Absolutely nothing wrong with saying you don't do writings on cakes. You don't have to do that. That is your choice as a business owner. What isn't your choice is restricting who is allowed to purchase your product.
But they do writings on cakes, just as the graphic artist does writing on posters. It is just that neither wants to do the particular writing. I notice you didn't answer my question. Why is one discrimination and the other isn't?
I already explained it to you. Refusing to write a certain phrase on a cake or whatever is not discriminating against a group of people. Refusing to provide your services to a certain group of people is discrimination.
It is not bigotry to identify and shun sexual deviants and perverts (homosexuals).For all the Bigoted Bakers, Fanatical Florists and Pharisee Photographers
What if they live and have family in Oregon?
Joe, if you were a gay graphic designer specializing in billboards and a Christian popped in to ask you to print a "Homosexuality is a sin against God" billboard for a busy highway, and you turned them down on principle JUST for that order (they'd been in your shop before ordering "puppies are cute" and "gas and food next right" billboards before), would the Christians then have the right to sue you for discriminating against their 1st Amendment civil right to freedom of religion? The PA law in Oregon says business owners cannot discriminate against customers' civil rights. All of them. Not just your favorites.
Refusing to participate in a gay wedding because of your religious beliefs is just that religious liberty
No, it isn't. That would be completely counter to the very concept of a free society.
How come whenever you wingnuts talk about 'freedom", it usually means the ability to abuse others?
You mean like being a gay billboard designer but being able to refuse on principle having to create a billboard for a Christian requesting that you make one that says "Homosexuality is a sin unto God"?I can most definitely control the products I offer the public. I just cannot discriminate with ACCESS to my products.
Yes. I can refuse to make any product. I cannot deny access to my product to a person though. I do not have to honor special requests. There are no laws that say I do. There ARE laws that say I cannot deny access to my business to any specific group or groups of people.
