Gun Debate Illustrates Two Different Americas

[protectionist]

The Vegas shooter was nearly a model citizen until he went on his rampage killing all those people. He made a lot of money in business, he took care of his elderly mother, and certainly no stranger to Vegas. If we were to deny him access to guns, on what grounds would you base that on?

You really shouldn't talk about things you know nothing about.

The Vegas shooter may have been overtaken by jihadists and subjected to mind control techniques (drugs, hypnosis, shock treatments). He would have been the perfect candidate for that. No family, no job, nobody to miss him for a couple of days + familiar with guns.

Then the jihads disappear before the cops arrive. Paddock hypnotized to commit suicide to prevent him from fingering the bad guys.

Same thing could be true of Adam Lanza, Nickolas Cruz, the Colorado theater guy, maybe even major Nidal Hasan in Fort Hood.

 

[protectionist]

NRA actively worked to weaken gun law enforcement

do you know how .....or WHY ?

 

[protectionist]

We value the freedom of life. Legally arming killers with guns for mass killing is depriving many of their right to life.

As is inviting them into schools to massacre, by declaring the schools "gun-free zones" (refusing to arm teachers)

 

[protectionist]

He should have been denied access to guns for mass killing as everyone should have. Semi auto rifles and high capacity magazines should be heavily regulated.

What's your problem with a semi-automatic rifle ?

 

[OKTexas]

There were others where the the system failed when the Navy didn't follow through. Try reading something, dupe. Good night!

The whole goddamn background check system is a mess. Jesus Christ! Great job bought off GOP and silly dupes of the NRA

Yeah, they keept the regressive states form submitting data, give me a break.


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The NRA and the GOP? That's a fact Jack. Don't be a dumbass read something.

I have , the NRA has been pushing for data inclusion in NICS for 25 years. It's regressives that have been blocking it, because they aren't interested in solutions, they want the issue. Unfortunately you're too old and ignorant to recognize it. Hell you posted a link yourself that no mass shooters got their guns from another citizen, they all bought from dealers legally. Yet you are pushing the ignorance that private sales need background checks, and somewhere in your demented regressive mind, that sounds reasonable to you? Run along child, I think we're done.


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NRA actively worked to weaken gun law enforcement

And what does this biased article have to do with what I said in the post you responded to?


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[DrLove]

Back when I was a first year college student, I was taught the definition of a nation. Among other things, that definition showed a nation as being a single culture. But in America today, with respect to the subject of guns, we have 2 separate cultures. Those who like (and appreciate) them, and those who despise and fear them.

That is just a silly generalization. I like my gun and neither despise nor fear it. But it would be nice to keep them out of the hands of kooks and criminals. You gun fetishists have yet to realize that nobody is interested in "grabbing your gun". But 90% of the American public myself included want universal background checks (NO exceptions), better mental and criminal databases and more power to the cops to separate deranged psychos like Nikolas Cruz from theirs.

How disconcerting it is to hear education system people worrying about things happening with guns in schools, when these fears emanate mostly from ignorance of guns, and how to handle and secure them. Equally perplexing and disturbing is their amazing lack of worry about the danger of guns not being there (in the schools), for the very necessary PROTECTION they provide..

The concept of mandatory training on HOW to handle and secure a gun is a good one. One should at least be able to pass a simple multiple choice exam. And the NRA wet dream of pistol packing teachers is as stupid as stupid gets. More professional security? Fine. Teachers, NO - They need to TEACH.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

We value the freedom of life. Legally arming killers with guns for mass killing is depriving many of their right to life.

Disarming me and millions of others because some idiot might deprive others of their rights is directly depriving one based on a very small maybe.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You gun fetishists have yet to realize that nobody is interested in "grabbing your gun".

Wanna bet? I could give you a link of what the Democrats are proposing in my state if you'd like. They not only want to ban ALL semi-automatic guns, but confiscate the ones that we already own including valuable collectors items.

Given the fact that most handguns are semi-automatic, their proposed bill would eliminate almost all handguns. Very few use revolvers or single shot rifles for self-defense.

The concept of mandatory training on HOW to handle and secure a gun is a good one. One should at least be able to pass a simple multiple choice exam. And the NRA wet dream of pistol packing teachers is as stupid as stupid gets. More professional security? Fine. Teachers, NO - They need to TEACH.

That's why Trump said it should be an option--not a mandate. If a school is going to get attacked by a nut like Cruz, would you rather your child be in a school with some armed faculty or nobody having gun in the school?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Teachers, NO - They need to TEACH.

What if reachers want to be armed?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Name one mass shooter that would have been stopped by your unenforceable universal background checks. JUST ONE.


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Several of them if it's enforced. If not all of them with mental check system too

Your talking about the current system, name one that got their weapon in a private sale. No hurry, I'll wait.


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They should take guns away from dangerously insane like the guy in Las Vegas. For the kid in Connecticut for that matter...

The Vegas shooter was nearly a model citizen until he went on his rampage killing all those people. He made a lot of money in business, he took care of his elderly mother, and certainly no stranger to Vegas. If we were to deny him access to guns, on what grounds would you base that on?

You really shouldn't talk about things you know nothing about.

He should have been denied access to guns for mass killing as everyone should have. Semi auto rifles and high capacity magazines should be heavily regulated.

Okay, so if they were regulated, do you think that would have stopped him or anybody else?

What is a high capacity magazine? How many rounds would that be? Because I can guarantee no matter what your answer, another lib will have a different answer.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Back when I was a first year college student, I was taught the definition of a nation. Among other things, that definition showed a nation as being a single culture. But in America today, with respect to the subject of guns, we have 2 separate cultures. Those who like (and appreciate) them, and those who despise and fear them.

On USMB, I've heard gun owners referred to as "gun nuts", "gun freaks", etc. They're sometimes referred to as "the gun culture". Well, just as easily, those who dislike/fear guns, could be called the Anti-gun culture.

Perhaps this dichotomy has a relation to how Americans begin adulthood. Millions of high school kids go straight to college, never spending a minute in the military, or anywhere getting introduced to firearms. Most have never even touched a real gun, much less receive training on it. Making things worse, is that college teachers, who also never touched a gun, and whose left-wing political bearings, make them automatic gun opponents.

Millions of other kids bypass college entirely, and go straight into the military, after high school. Unlike the college kids, these young soldiers, sailors, marines, etc. aren't exposed to the leftist propaganda so prolific on college campuses, but they do have lots of introductions to firearms, thereby becoming familiar with and knowledgable of them. So, for the major pars of their adult lives (after college or the military), America is divided generally, into these 2 very differing groups.

Having spent 6 years in the US Army and Army National Guard, and then attending college for 4 years, I noticed a huge gap in gun perception in this 2 groups. I was often taken aback, sometimes humored, by the stiff and robotic way that my college cohorts perceived just the thought of guns. The college kids, with no direct exposure to guns, and lots of indoctrination against them, actually though that the only people to ordinarily possess a gun were police and criminals.

They really thought that if you weren't a cop or military person, you shouldn't have a gun, and had no idea why anyone else would. In contrast, my former Army National Guard buddies had whole collections guns, of various types, each suited for various purposes. They could take apart their M4A1s, M-14s, AR-15s, clean them, and put them back together blindfolded, in accordance with their military training.

How disconcerting it is to hear education system people worrying about things happening with guns in schools, when these fears emanate mostly from ignorance of guns, and how to handle and secure them. Equally perplexing and disturbing is their amazing lack of worry about the danger of guns not being there (in the schools), for the very necessary PROTECTION they provide.

Those who speak about the "gun culture" should do some self-examination, with regard to the anti-gun culture, and the hows and whys of its existence.

There are many of us who are fine with guns, but realize we can't have guns for mass killing legal. As we saw in the most recent school shooting, Vegas, Orlando, the recent church shooting in TX... Semi auto rifles with high capacity magazines can kill a lot of innocent people really fast. Just like we heavily regulate machine guns, we need to do the same with these semi-auto rifles. The gun culture survived regulating machine guns, and will continue on after we regulate semi-auto rifles and high capacity magazines. Machine guns are now rarely used in crimes btw.

Riddle me this: What is the difference between a semi-automatic rifle and a semi-automatic handgun? The answer? The semi-automatic rifle is scarier looking. They both do the same thing (shoot a round every time the trigger is pulled) but one is nicer looking.

The problem is that what you propose is just one step of many steps to come if we don't put up resistance to it. The school shooter didn't use any high capacity magazines. So let's say the last time they were used, we had a law against them. Would you say we don't need any more regulations now that we have laws against high capacity magazines? Of course not, you would say that the law didn't do any good, and we need more regulations.

This is what we are trying to stop.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Given the fact that most handguns are semi-automatic, their proposed bill would eliminate almost all handguns. Very few use revolvers or single shot rifles for self-defense.

I would say that would be a ban ALL handguns manufactured in the last 40 years, including revolvers. All revolvers for at least the last 40 years are double-action, which is effectively semi-auto.

They don't give a shit about Heller. They will make us work to keep our rights at every turn.

That's why we MUST go on the offensive and demand motherfucking machine guns!!!

 

[OKTexas]

Back when I was a first year college student, I was taught the definition of a nation. Among other things, that definition showed a nation as being a single culture. But in America today, with respect to the subject of guns, we have 2 separate cultures. Those who like (and appreciate) them, and those who despise and fear them.

That is just a silly generalization. I like my gun and neither despise nor fear it. But it would be nice to keep them out of the hands of kooks and criminals. You gun fetishists have yet to realize that nobody is interested in "grabbing your gun". But 90% of the American public myself included want universal background checks (NO exceptions), better mental and criminal databases and more power to the cops to separate deranged psychos like Nikolas Cruz from theirs.

How disconcerting it is to hear education system people worrying about things happening with guns in schools, when these fears emanate mostly from ignorance of guns, and how to handle and secure them. Equally perplexing and disturbing is their amazing lack of worry about the danger of guns not being there (in the schools), for the very necessary PROTECTION they provide..

The concept of mandatory training on HOW to handle and secure a gun is a good one. One should at least be able to pass a simple multiple choice exam. And the NRA wet dream of pistol packing teachers is as stupid as stupid gets. More professional security? Fine. Teachers, NO - They need to TEACH.

You're a freaking idiot, no mass shooter has purchased a gun form a private individual, they were either stolen or purchased from an FFL dealer. Also tell us how much teaching goes on in an active shooter situation. Training willing teachers to respond can be an effective deterrent and a ready response force if needed. It makes perfect sense.


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[Brain357]

We value the freedom of life. Legally arming killers with guns for mass killing is depriving many of their right to life.

As is inviting them into schools to massacre, by declaring the schools "gun-free zones" (refusing to arm teachers)

Countries with strong gun control don't have a school shooting problem at all. There was an armed officer at the school, didn't do any good.

 

[Brain357]

We value the freedom of life. Legally arming killers with guns for mass killing is depriving many of their right to life.

Disarming me and millions of others because some idiot might deprive others of their rights is directly depriving one based on a very small maybe.

There is no right to quickly and easily become a mass killer, sorry.

 

[Brain357]

Given the fact that most handguns are semi-automatic, their proposed bill would eliminate almost all handguns. Very few use revolvers or single shot rifles for self-defense.

I would say that would be a ban ALL handguns manufactured in the last 40 years, including revolvers. All revolvers for at least the last 40 years are double-action, which is effectively semi-auto.

They don't give a shit about Heller. They will make us work to keep our rights at every turn.

That's why we MUST go on the offensive and demand motherfucking machine guns!!!

And then the mass killings would get even worse, as they have with the popularity of semi auto rifles and high capacity magazines.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We value the freedom of life. Legally arming killers with guns for mass killing is depriving many of their right to life.

As is inviting them into schools to massacre, by declaring the schools "gun-free zones" (refusing to arm teachers)

Countries with strong gun control don't have a school shooting problem at all. There was an armed officer at the school, didn't do any good.

All the more reason to have armed faculty as well. The government failed us.

 

[Brain357]

We value the freedom of life. Legally arming killers with guns for mass killing is depriving many of their right to life.

As is inviting them into schools to massacre, by declaring the schools "gun-free zones" (refusing to arm teachers)

Countries with strong gun control don't have a school shooting problem at all. There was an armed officer at the school, didn't do any good.

All the more reason to have armed faculty as well. The government failed us.

Yes when they got rid of the ban on high capacity magazines they failed us. Now everyone thinks they can kill the most of all time. Take the guns for mass killing and it will slow dramatically.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We value the freedom of life. Legally arming killers with guns for mass killing is depriving many of their right to life.

As is inviting them into schools to massacre, by declaring the schools "gun-free zones" (refusing to arm teachers)

Countries with strong gun control don't have a school shooting problem at all. There was an armed officer at the school, didn't do any good.

All the more reason to have armed faculty as well. The government failed us.

Yes when they got rid of the ban on high capacity magazines they failed us. Now everyone thinks they can kill the most of all time. Take the guns for mass killing and it will slow dramatically.

How?

It seems to me you (like most on your side) know very little about guns. For instance this high capacity nonsense. Do you think limiting capacity would stop one mass murder? How about eliminating rifles?

We both go to a turkey farm. We are allowed to kill as many turkeys as we want. I have a 20 round semi-automatic handgun and you have a 20 round AR-15. Who do you think will kill the most turkeys?

 

[Brain357]

We value the freedom of life. Legally arming killers with guns for mass killing is depriving many of their right to life.

As is inviting them into schools to massacre, by declaring the schools "gun-free zones" (refusing to arm teachers)

Countries with strong gun control don't have a school shooting problem at all. There was an armed officer at the school, didn't do any good.

All the more reason to have armed faculty as well. The government failed us.

Yes when they got rid of the ban on high capacity magazines they failed us. Now everyone thinks they can kill the most of all time. Take the guns for mass killing and it will slow dramatically.

How?

It seems to me you (like most on your side) know very little about guns. For instance this high capacity nonsense. Do you think limiting capacity would stop one mass murder? How about eliminating rifles?

We both go to a turkey farm. We are allowed to kill as many turkeys as we want. I have a 20 round semi-automatic handgun and you have a 20 round AR-15. Who do you think will kill the most turkeys?

The people who claimed to know about guns said semi auto rifles with high capacity magazines were no more dangerous than other rifles. Now every time we have a new worst mass shooting it is done with a...Semi auto rifle with high capacity magazines. They have shown how dangerous they are, so stop the bull ray.