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we just had 2 deputy sheriffs shot today by a guy with a rifle...according to your logic, since the officers faced one guy....they only needed one bullet between them when they left the station this morning...right...and if they didn't get any shots off, then they didn't need even that bullet...since you believe you know how many bullets people need this is right...right?
I am not familiar with stats on how many times police need to shoot. I have seen stats however that citizens defending only use 2 shots. And you still haven't provided an example of anyone needing a hi cap magazine for defense.
Before the call that changed Sergeant Timothy Gramins’ life forever, he typically carried 47 rounds of handgun ammunition on his person while on duty.
Today, he carries 145, “every day, without fail.”
He detailed the gunfight that caused the difference in a gripping presentation at the annual conference of the Assn. of SWAT Personnel-Wisconsin.
At the core of his desperate firefight was a murderous attacker who simply would not go down, even though he was shot 14 times with .45-cal. ammunition — six of those hits in supposedly fatal locations.
Unknown at the time, the suspect, a 37-year-old alleged Gangster Disciple, had vowed that he would kill a police officer if he got stopped.
He bailed out and ran headlong at me with a 9 mm Smith in his hand while I was still in my car,” Gramins said.
The gunman sank four rounds into the Crown Vic’s hood while Gramins was drawing his .45-cal. Glock 21.
“I didn’t have time to think of backing up or even ramming him,” Gramins said. “I see the gun and I engage.”
Gramins fired back through his windshield, sending a total of 13 rounds tearing through just three holes.
A master firearms instructor and a sniper on his department’s Tactical Intervention Unit, “I was confident at least some of them were hitting him, but he wasn’t even close to slowing down,” Gramins said.
The gunman shot his pistol dry trying to hit Gramins with rounds through his driver-side window, but except for spraying the officer’s face with glass, he narrowly missed and headed back to his car.
Gramins, also empty, escaped his squad — “a coffin,” he calls it — and reloaded on his run to cover behind the passenger-side rear of the Bonneville.
Now the robber, a lanky six-footer, was back in the fight with a .380 Bersa pistol he’d grabbed off his front seat. Rounds flew between the two as the gunman dashed toward the squad car.
Again, Gamins shot dry and reloaded.
“I thought I was hitting him, but with shots going through his clothing it was hard to tell for sure. This much was certain: he kept moving and kept shooting, trying his damnedest to kill me.”
In this free-for-all, the assailant had, in fact, been struck 14 times. Any one of six of these wounds — in the heart, right lung, left lung, liver, diaphragm, and right kidney — could have produced fatal consequences…“in time,” Gramins emphasizes.
But time for Gramins, like the stack of bullets in his third magazine, was fast running out.
In his trunk was an AR-15; in an overhead rack inside the squad, a Remington 870.
But reaching either was impractical. Gramins did manage to get himself to a grassy spot near a tree on the curb side of his vehicle where he could prone out for a solid shooting platform.
So Brain357...tell me again that people don't need 19 round magazines in their pistols...you have no clue about what you are talking about...
If spray and pray is their primary shooting technique more would have machine guns. But machines guns are seldom used, so you are wrong.
Your ignorance of gun fights is amazing since you try to speak with such authority on the topic...spray and pray means you don't aim, you simply start pulling the trigger ...and it is done with pistols as well as rifles...the point is they don't take time to aim their shots...and again...they don't use fully auto rifle because it is harder to use in a car and the and carry under clothing...
This story is why guns are so important as a defensive tool....this is a 70 year old man who never fired a gun before...ever....a home invader breaks into this couples house, points the shotgun and orders the 70 year old man to get on the ground....
Defensive Gun Use of the Day OK Gun Owner s First Ever Shot Takes Down Shotgun Burglar Edition - The Truth About Guns
Cardell says he did not have any experience using a firearm.
“No! That’s my first time shooting a gun,” he said.
Frances said they bought the gun hoping to never need it, but now she’s glad it was there.
“This is something we never dreamed would have happened in our lifetime,” Frances said.
the anti gunners don't understand...firearms are not that hard to use...sure...more training is better than no training....but very little training is no bar from deploying a gun effectively....in most self defense cases, you aren't going to find people who train like navy seals....they tend to be average people with little to no training, and they use the guns to save lives and stop violent criminal attacks....that is why the gun replaced the sword, and spear and why they are so important for the weak, the old, the injured, the ambushed and the individual facing multiple attackers....no other weapon makes people equal the way a gun does....
And he didn't need a hi cap magazine.
No one has ever lost a gun fight because he had TOO much ammo
its like saying that disease I had did no require my 1 million annual insurance policy limits
Listen anti gun twits: IF CIVILIAN POLICE have determined that 17 shot pistols and 30 shot rifles are the most suitable self defense weapons for CIVILIAN cops to use in a CIVILIAN URBAN ENVIRONMENT, who are you ninnies to disagree?
This comes from a post by Mojo2...and shows why you really are not one to discuss the ammo needs of law abiding citizens Brain357...
Why one cop carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job
Before the call that changed Sergeant Timothy Gramins’ life forever, he typically carried 47 rounds of handgun ammunition on his person while on duty.
Today, he carries 145, “every day, without fail.”
He detailed the gunfight that caused the difference in a gripping presentation at the annual conference of the Assn. of SWAT Personnel-Wisconsin.
Keep in mind...he is a law enforcement officer...he has a radio to call for help, he has a shotgun, a pistol and possibly an AR-15 in his trunk...
A civilian is usually on their own for the minutes it takes for police to arrive...if they can put the call out for help...
Read on...
we just had 2 deputy sheriffs shot today by a guy with a rifle...according to your logic, since the officers faced one guy....they only needed one bullet between them when they left the station this morning...right...and if they didn't get any shots off, then they didn't need even that bullet...since you believe you know how many bullets people need this is right...right?
I am not familiar with stats on how many times police need to shoot. I have seen stats however that citizens defending only use 2 shots. And you still haven't provided an example of anyone needing a hi cap magazine for defense.
There is a case where a mope on PCP took 17 hits from several deputies' 357 revolvers and several loads of buckshot before he died. he was still firing and hitting cops after taking over 20 projectiles
there is absolutely NO DOWNSIDE to honest people having 30 round magazines. IF IT COSTS ONE INNOCENT their life because they run out of ammo, people like you should be held responsible
You know what Brain 357, you could give this guy all the 30 round magazines he wanted....and not one of them would be used to commit a crime....
it is still amazing that you think that gang members who are prevented by law from owning, carrying and shooting guns of any make or model, and yet still use guns to murder people...will be unable to get 30 round magazines....
In your mind how,does that work....even in Australia and Britain, their Ganga and criminals have guns...and in Britain they also use grenades...
It's not about unable. They would have no reason to get 30 rd magazines. If hi cap magazines were illegal it would be much easier to get guns with 10 rd magazines. Why bother putting the extra effort into getting 30 rd magazines when you can rob a store with 10 just as well? Criminals don't use machine guns now because they don't need them and they are hard to get. It's the same thing.
This comes from a post by Mojo2...and shows why you really are not one to discuss the ammo needs of law abiding citizens Brain357...
Why one cop carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job
Before the call that changed Sergeant Timothy Gramins’ life forever, he typically carried 47 rounds of handgun ammunition on his person while on duty.
Today, he carries 145, “every day, without fail.”
He detailed the gunfight that caused the difference in a gripping presentation at the annual conference of the Assn. of SWAT Personnel-Wisconsin.
Keep in mind...he is a law enforcement officer...he has a radio to call for help, he has a shotgun, a pistol and possibly an AR-15 in his trunk...
A civilian is usually on their own for the minutes it takes for police to arrive...if they can put the call out for help...
Read on...
Still waiting on real examples of anyone needing hi cap magazines for defense.
You know what Brain 357, you could give this guy all the 30 round magazines he wanted....and not one of them would be used to commit a crime....
it is still amazing that you think that gang members who are prevented by law from owning, carrying and shooting guns of any make or model, and yet still use guns to murder people...will be unable to get 30 round magazines....
In your mind how,does that work....even in Australia and Britain, their Ganga and criminals have guns...and in Britain they also use grenades...
It's not about unable. They would have no reason to get 30 rd magazines. If hi cap magazines were illegal it would be much easier to get guns with 10 rd magazines. Why bother putting the extra effort into getting 30 rd magazines when you can rob a store with 10 just as well? Criminals don't use machine guns now because they don't need them and they are hard to get. It's the same thing.
You know machining a 30 round magazine is like machine tool 101 right? Even if you made them illegal criminals could make them, crazy people could more easily make them, because the buggers are so dedicated to whatever mayhem they propose to do.
Only criminals and mass shooters use hi cap magazines, defenders don't need them.
Your ignorance is truly amazing...tell that to this cop...or the other ones...
Still waiting on real examples of anyone needing hi cap magazines for defense.
You know what Brain 357, you could give this guy all the 30 round magazines he wanted....and not one of them would be used to commit a crime....
it is still amazing that you think that gang members who are prevented by law from owning, carrying and shooting guns of any make or model, and yet still use guns to murder people...will be unable to get 30 round magazines....
In your mind how,does that work....even in Australia and Britain, their Ganga and criminals have guns...and in Britain they also use grenades...
It's not about unable. They would have no reason to get 30 rd magazines. If hi cap magazines were illegal it would be much easier to get guns with 10 rd magazines. Why bother putting the extra effort into getting 30 rd magazines when you can rob a store with 10 just as well? Criminals don't use machine guns now because they don't need them and they are hard to get. It's the same thing.
You know machining a 30 round magazine is like machine tool 101 right? Even if you made them illegal criminals could make them, crazy people could more easily make them, because the buggers are so dedicated to whatever mayhem they propose to do.
And if you make them they are much more likely to jam. Magazines made by the manufacturer often jam as it is. Made in the garage would jam a lot.
Cops aren't just defending. They have to arrest the criminal. BIG difference.
You know what Brain 357, you could give this guy all the 30 round magazines he wanted....and not one of them would be used to commit a crime....
it is still amazing that you think that gang members who are prevented by law from owning, carrying and shooting guns of any make or model, and yet still use guns to murder people...will be unable to get 30 round magazines....
In your mind how,does that work....even in Australia and Britain, their Ganga and criminals have guns...and in Britain they also use grenades...
It's not about unable. They would have no reason to get 30 rd magazines. If hi cap magazines were illegal it would be much easier to get guns with 10 rd magazines. Why bother putting the extra effort into getting 30 rd magazines when you can rob a store with 10 just as well? Criminals don't use machine guns now because they don't need them and they are hard to get. It's the same thing.
You know machining a 30 round magazine is like machine tool 101 right? Even if you made them illegal criminals could make them, crazy people could more easily make them, because the buggers are so dedicated to whatever mayhem they propose to do.
And if you make them they are much more likely to jam. Magazines made by the manufacturer often jam as it is. Made in the garage would jam a lot.
Again, machine shop 101, its stamped metal with a spring and a plate in it.
Cops aren't just defending. They have to arrest the criminal. BIG difference.
No it's not...this perp did not retreat...there are criminals who do not retreat and continue to advance because they are on drugs...this isn't the only case of this happening...
Still waiting on real examples of anyone needing hi cap magazines for defense.
And how is that cop not a real example...? And if a civilian ran into this monster...you would have his gun run dry at ten and the monster took 14 .45s with 6 critical hits...and he still kept fighting and shooting...
