Hey republicans, how exactly are we supposed to fix the stagnant wage problem?

[Skull Pilot]

OK Mr literal.

Next time I won't use a hypothetical since that seems to be beyond you.

A program a sequence only needs to be entered once by one or a few people thereby allowing many other people who do not know how to program the machine to monitor it. Productivity goes up even though the number of skilled people needed diminishes.

Either way more work is being done by less skilled labor and less skilled labor is not worth the same as highly skilled labor.

Sometimes the devil is in the details and it doesn't seem like you really know anything about manufacturing. That the machine is there doesn't make it any easier for the people who have to tend it. Oftentimes it's much harder because when there's a malfunction, it's very painful to get back on track.

When there is a malfunction the unskilled guy monitoring the machine calls the skilled guy to fix it.

Once again there are fewer skilled repair people needed and the lower skilled people are paid according to their skill level.

You seem to think every person on the factory floor knows how to rip apart every machine as well as write the computer code for it and you say I don't know what I'm talking about?

Excuse me while I chuckle.

I've seen with my own eyes the people who used to do things by hand having to deal with the machines that were set up to increase efficiency. They might not perform a major overhaul but they have to know a lot more than they did and for not much more pay.

So tell me expert, what the hell have you ever manufactured? I was under the impression that you were more of a paper pusher.

Now maybe but I spent my time on a factory floor running machinery that I neither programmed nor repaired.

It's not too hard to insert wood stock into computerized lathe now is it?

Tell me is that worth the same as a guy who actually hand turns the stock?

Let me help you out here:

The answer is no.

I'll agree with your experience. It's not universal though. Your computerized lathe probably didn't jam much and if it did, you'd open up the tailstock, pull out the old piece and put in a new one. The manufacturing machines I have experience with can jam up horribly and when they do, there's not just one piece that needs to be replaced - there are a bunch.

And usually one or two guys know how to repair the machine. Not everyone needs to be trained to do so. So once again we are still at the point where there is less skilled labor therefore a monetary savings for the company because all the people who only know how to tend a running machine are not worth the same as those who know how to tear it down and repair it or program it.

So we see that a workforce of less skilled labor supported by a very small cadre of highly skilled people and the available other businesses that specialize in more technical support services can out produce one that historically needed a much higher skill set.

So I ask again is the increase in productivity a function of the increase in skills of the labor force or the skills of those who develop implement and maintain the technology?

If it is the latter as I posit then shouldn't the lower end of the labor force be paid less than those of the past that were more highly skilled so as to compensate the new specialized work force?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Government doesn't create jobs ... Unless of course you are simply counting government jobs. Of course that subject is covered in another thread.

.

Government creates millions of jobs

The entire defense industry is government created. Construction jobs, medical, legal and don't forget penal

I posted it would be perfectly okay to count government jobs ... If you feel like arguing about it any further, look in the mirror because I don't care.

.

So...therefore you are wrong in saying the government does not create jobs

Saying government creates jobs is equivalent to saying the IRS creates tax revenue. It's a typical ridiculous statement made by libtardians.

There's no one employed in the defense industry?

Government jobs are a necessity for those things directly involved in running the government.

The government work force should be kept as small as possible so as not to waste the peoples' money on unnecessary crap

There is no government responsibility to meddle in the employment of those not engaged in government service

 

[westwall]

If republicans are too immature to admit the low wage problem can't be fixed through forcefully raising the minimum wage, how exactly are we supposed to boost wages? Since the recession there has been a significant decrease of high wage jobs and a significant increase of low wage jobs. How do we fix poverty if 10s of millions of Americans HAVE NO CHOICE but to accept low wage jobs?

Let's pretend republicans had full control over this issue. What would republicans do to boost wages? I want specific answers. Don't give me crap like "undo democratic bullshit of the last 6 years derp derp derp". I want SPECIFIC AND DETAILED steps on how we are supposed to boost wages in this county if raising the minimum wage isn't an option.

End illegal immigration which creates a permanent underclass of those who will work for very little. Make the farmers pay a fair wage to harvest their crops and regular people will work for them.

That would be stage one. Second stage would to legalize all drugs. Take the crime out of drugs and their cost drops which then makes addiction a medical problem rather than a legal issue. Property crimes and violent crime will plummet. That will allow social services to get more funding to educate those who wish to be educated.

To those who wish to leech off the public tit because they are lazy..... they can starve for all I care.
This is a free country and if they can make a living by begging, good for them....but those who work should not have the money they make taken away from them to give to those who CHOOSE not to work.

 

[RKMBrown]

Government doesn't create jobs ... Unless of course you are simply counting government jobs. Of course that subject is covered in another thread.

.

Government creates millions of jobs

The entire defense industry is government created. Construction jobs, medical, legal and don't forget penal

I posted it would be perfectly okay to count government jobs ... If you feel like arguing about it any further, look in the mirror because I don't care.

.

So...therefore you are wrong in saying the government does not create jobs

Saying government creates jobs is equivalent to saying the IRS creates tax revenue. It's a typical ridiculous statement made by libtardians.

There's no one employed in the defense industry?

Of course there are people working for the US tax payers in the defense industry. They also work for our allies and some of our enemies.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If republicans are too immature to admit the low wage problem can't be fixed through forcefully raising the minimum wage, how exactly are we supposed to boost wages? Since the recession there has been a significant decrease of high wage jobs and a significant increase of low wage jobs. How do we fix poverty if 10s of millions of Americans HAVE NO CHOICE but to accept low wage jobs?

Let's pretend republicans had full control over this issue. What would republicans do to boost wages? I want specific answers. Don't give me crap like "undo democratic bullshit of the last 6 years derp derp derp". I want SPECIFIC AND DETAILED steps on how we are supposed to boost wages in this county if raising the minimum wage isn't an option.

Mindless partisan bigotry, raised to a new level.

 

[RKMBrown]

Government doesn't create jobs ... Unless of course you are simply counting government jobs. Of course that subject is covered in another thread.

.

Government creates millions of jobs

The entire defense industry is government created. Construction jobs, medical, legal and don't forget penal

I posted it would be perfectly okay to count government jobs ... If you feel like arguing about it any further, look in the mirror because I don't care.

.

So...therefore you are wrong in saying the government does not create jobs

Saying government creates jobs is equivalent to saying the IRS creates tax revenue. It's a typical ridiculous statement made by libtardians.

Which society do you live in?

The government has created millions of high paying defense industry jobs
Construction jobs related to roads, bridges, schools, public buildings are all government created
VA Hospitals and medical research are all government created

ROFL.... no they didn't. The owners of the companies in the defense industry created the jobs. The tax payers hired some middle men in government jobs to spend our money on products built by our companies that we, the tax payers, and also some foreign investors invested in. Government is a concept, not a person. Who is this person named government that you think is running around creating jobs with money out of thin air? You think government is some god emperor? Government employees work for us, ya fool.

 

[RKMBrown]

Increasing automation creates new industries and careers. It also eliminates many manual labor jobs. The smart worker constantly looks for opportunities to master new skills and increase his value to the company. Failure to do so means the eventual loss of employment.

Easy to say when it's not your job being outsourced to cheap foreign labor with tax dollars taken from your pocket.

 

[rdean]

Get a skill learn a trade that has a value beside flipping burgers

But that requires education.

Texas schools are in financial crisis due to a $27 billion hole in the most recent state budget. In short, the state simply did not have enough money to continue funding public education at current levels without increasing taxes, which many elected officials had sworn not do. Instead, these legislators chose to slash $5.4 billion from public education, along with huge cuts to other vital programs.

The Budget Crisis Save Texas Schools

Jon Stewart said he was shocked to find out that Texas even paid 5 billion for education. Me to.

 

[JoeNormal]

Sometimes the devil is in the details and it doesn't seem like you really know anything about manufacturing. That the machine is there doesn't make it any easier for the people who have to tend it. Oftentimes it's much harder because when there's a malfunction, it's very painful to get back on track.

When there is a malfunction the unskilled guy monitoring the machine calls the skilled guy to fix it.

Once again there are fewer skilled repair people needed and the lower skilled people are paid according to their skill level.

You seem to think every person on the factory floor knows how to rip apart every machine as well as write the computer code for it and you say I don't know what I'm talking about?

Excuse me while I chuckle.

I've seen with my own eyes the people who used to do things by hand having to deal with the machines that were set up to increase efficiency. They might not perform a major overhaul but they have to know a lot more than they did and for not much more pay.

So tell me expert, what the hell have you ever manufactured? I was under the impression that you were more of a paper pusher.

Now maybe but I spent my time on a factory floor running machinery that I neither programmed nor repaired.

It's not too hard to insert wood stock into computerized lathe now is it?

Tell me is that worth the same as a guy who actually hand turns the stock?

Let me help you out here:

The answer is no.

I'll agree with your experience. It's not universal though. Your computerized lathe probably didn't jam much and if it did, you'd open up the tailstock, pull out the old piece and put in a new one. The manufacturing machines I have experience with can jam up horribly and when they do, there's not just one piece that needs to be replaced - there are a bunch.

And usually one or two guys know how to repair the machine. Not everyone needs to be trained to do so. So once again we are still at the point where there is less skilled labor therefore a monetary savings for the company because all the people who only know how to tend a running machine are not worth the same as those who know how to tear it down and repair it or program it.

So we see that a workforce of less skilled labor supported by a very small cadre of highly skilled people and the available other businesses that specialize in more technical support services can out produce one that historically needed a much higher skill set.

So I ask again is the increase in productivity a function of the increase in skills of the labor force or the skills of those who develop implement and maintain the technology?

If it is the latter as I posit then shouldn't the lower end of the labor force be paid less than those of the past that were more highly skilled so as to compensate the new specialized work force?

There are all kinds of reasons to share the knowledge of how to deal with the problems a complicated machine creates. Maybe the key cogs move on to other companies. Maybe they're sick. Maybe they're swamped with other emergencies. The bottom line is that the complexity requires additional skills from the rank and file and that additional skill is not being compensated.

As for the guys who create the technology, I only wish they were compensated for the efficiency gains. What I've noticed is that the spoils are divided amongst the upper management because (wait for it...) they have been given control of the company assets.

 

[RKMBrown]

I posted it would be perfectly okay to count government jobs ... If you feel like arguing about it any further, look in the mirror because I don't care.

.

So...therefore you are wrong in saying the government does not create jobs

Saying government creates jobs is equivalent to saying the IRS creates tax revenue. It's a typical ridiculous statement made by libtardians.

There's no one employed in the defense industry?

Well? Yes? No?

If the government does not create jobs, then there must be no one employed in the defense industry.

Someone take that position and debate with me...

lol

Nobody wants to debate because you're right. The government also funds lots of research that eventually finds its way into industry and creates jobs that way.

No, the government doesn't fund squat. US Taxpayers fund said research projects. Government is just a bunch of employees of the US Taxpayers. Spending someone else's money is not the same as spending your own money, ya fool. Your statement is the equivalent of saying a school administrator funded a new school... when the funding came from tax payers. It's ludicrous.

 

[RKMBrown]

Get a skill learn a trade that has a value beside flipping burgers

But that requires education.

Texas schools are in financial crisis due to a $27 billion hole in the most recent state budget. In short, the state simply did not have enough money to continue funding public education at current levels without increasing taxes, which many elected officials had sworn not do. Instead, these legislators chose to slash $5.4 billion from public education, along with huge cuts to other vital programs.

The Budget Crisis Save Texas Schools

Jon Stewart said he was shocked to find out that Texas even paid 5 billion for education. Me to.

Bull shit.

 

[rightwinger]

Government creates millions of jobs

The entire defense industry is government created. Construction jobs, medical, legal and don't forget penal

I posted it would be perfectly okay to count government jobs ... If you feel like arguing about it any further, look in the mirror because I don't care.

.

So...therefore you are wrong in saying the government does not create jobs

Saying government creates jobs is equivalent to saying the IRS creates tax revenue. It's a typical ridiculous statement made by libtardians.

Which society do you live in?

The government has created millions of high paying defense industry jobs
Construction jobs related to roads, bridges, schools, public buildings are all government created
VA Hospitals and medical research are all government created

ROFL.... no they didn't. The owners of the companies in the defense industry created the jobs. The tax payers hired some middle men in government jobs to spend our money on products built by our companies that we, the tax payers, and also some foreign investors invested in. Government is a concept, not a person. Who is this person named government that you think is running around creating jobs with money out of thin air? You think government is some god emperor? Government employees work for us, ya fool.

Such an ignorant child

Those Defense industries do not develop on their own. They are a direct result of the GOVERNMENT contracting for goods and services. Without the GOVERNMENT, those defense industries would not exist

It is the GOVERNMENT that creates those jobs

 

[RKMBrown]

I posted it would be perfectly okay to count government jobs ... If you feel like arguing about it any further, look in the mirror because I don't care.

.

So...therefore you are wrong in saying the government does not create jobs

Saying government creates jobs is equivalent to saying the IRS creates tax revenue. It's a typical ridiculous statement made by libtardians.

Which society do you live in?

The government has created millions of high paying defense industry jobs
Construction jobs related to roads, bridges, schools, public buildings are all government created
VA Hospitals and medical research are all government created

ROFL.... no they didn't. The owners of the companies in the defense industry created the jobs. The tax payers hired some middle men in government jobs to spend our money on products built by our companies that we, the tax payers, and also some foreign investors invested in. Government is a concept, not a person. Who is this person named government that you think is running around creating jobs with money out of thin air? You think government is some god emperor? Government employees work for us, ya fool.

Such an ignorant child

Those Defense industries do not develop on their own. They are a direct result of the GOVERNMENT contracting for goods and services. Without the GOVERNMENT, those defense industries would not exist

It is the GOVERNMENT that creates those jobs

I see so Boeing does not develop on their own. Boeing only sells to government contracts. Only government buys aircraft. Who knew?

 

[JoeNormal]

So...therefore you are wrong in saying the government does not create jobs

Saying government creates jobs is equivalent to saying the IRS creates tax revenue. It's a typical ridiculous statement made by libtardians.

There's no one employed in the defense industry?

Well? Yes? No?

If the government does not create jobs, then there must be no one employed in the defense industry.

Someone take that position and debate with me...

lol

Nobody wants to debate because you're right. The government also funds lots of research that eventually finds its way into industry and creates jobs that way.

No, the government doesn't fund squat. US Taxpayers fund said research projects. Government is just a bunch of employees of the US Taxpayers. Spending someone else's money is not the same as spending your own money, ya fool. Your statement is the equivalent of saying a school administrator funded a new school... when the funding came from tax payers. It's ludicrous.

True enough I suppose but someone from the government is allocating money for either defense or the technology developments that I referred to. That money is collected from the pool of citizens who will benefit from them. Discussions like this always seem to take the form of the 'chicken and egg' argument and I find them tedious.

 

[rightwinger]

So...therefore you are wrong in saying the government does not create jobs

Saying government creates jobs is equivalent to saying the IRS creates tax revenue. It's a typical ridiculous statement made by libtardians.

Which society do you live in?

The government has created millions of high paying defense industry jobs
Construction jobs related to roads, bridges, schools, public buildings are all government created
VA Hospitals and medical research are all government created

ROFL.... no they didn't. The owners of the companies in the defense industry created the jobs. The tax payers hired some middle men in government jobs to spend our money on products built by our companies that we, the tax payers, and also some foreign investors invested in. Government is a concept, not a person. Who is this person named government that you think is running around creating jobs with money out of thin air? You think government is some god emperor? Government employees work for us, ya fool.

Such an ignorant child

Those Defense industries do not develop on their own. They are a direct result of the GOVERNMENT contracting for goods and services. Without the GOVERNMENT, those defense industries would not exist

It is the GOVERNMENT that creates those jobs

I see so Boeing does not develop on their own. Boeing only sells to government contracts. Only government buys aircraft. Who knew?

Boeing is a great example

How about that 747 they created on their own? The Government needed a heavy transport plane. Bigger than anything ever built. They decided to compete the bid and awarded two contracts for a flyoff....Boeing and Lockheed.
Lockheed built a plane called the C-5 and won the contract
Boeing built a design which lost but they turned into the 747

Tell us again how the Government does not create jobs

 

[OKTexas]

If republicans are too immature to admit the low wage problem can't be fixed through forcefully raising the minimum wage, how exactly are we supposed to boost wages? Since the recession there has been a significant decrease of high wage jobs and a significant increase of low wage jobs. How do we fix poverty if 10s of millions of Americans HAVE NO CHOICE but to accept low wage jobs?

Let's pretend republicans had full control over this issue. What would republicans do to boost wages? I want specific answers. Don't give me crap like "undo democratic bullshit of the last 6 years derp derp derp". I want SPECIFIC AND DETAILED steps on how we are supposed to boost wages in this county if raising the minimum wage isn't an option.

I got an idea, how about we add another 5-6 million largely uneducated people to the legal labor force to compete for the jobs. Yep that ought to do it.

 

[RKMBrown]

Saying government creates jobs is equivalent to saying the IRS creates tax revenue. It's a typical ridiculous statement made by libtardians.

There's no one employed in the defense industry?

Well? Yes? No?

If the government does not create jobs, then there must be no one employed in the defense industry.

Someone take that position and debate with me...

lol

Nobody wants to debate because you're right. The government also funds lots of research that eventually finds its way into industry and creates jobs that way.

No, the government doesn't fund squat. US Taxpayers fund said research projects. Government is just a bunch of employees of the US Taxpayers. Spending someone else's money is not the same as spending your own money, ya fool. Your statement is the equivalent of saying a school administrator funded a new school... when the funding came from tax payers. It's ludicrous.

True enough I suppose but someone from the government is allocating money for either defense or the technology developments that I referred to. That money is collected from the pool of citizens who will benefit from them. Discussions like this always seem to take the form of the 'chicken and egg' argument and I find them tedious.

Tedious but important to recognize that it is taxpayers money. It's not free. This is not a chicken egg problem. This is a taxpayers create government, hire employees for government, allow government employees to tax us to fund project for us. The relationship of government is one of self. Government without tax payers is a piece of paper and unpaid employees.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Get a skill learn a trade that has a value beside flipping burgers

But that requires education.

Texas schools are in financial crisis due to a $27 billion hole in the most recent state budget. In short, the state simply did not have enough money to continue funding public education at current levels without increasing taxes, which many elected officials had sworn not do. Instead, these legislators chose to slash $5.4 billion from public education, along with huge cuts to other vital programs.

The Budget Crisis Save Texas Schools

Jon Stewart said he was shocked to find out that Texas even paid 5 billion for education. Me to.

Why does it take an education? Plenty of companies have OJT. Plenty of skilled craftmen do not have a high school diploma. I've worked with some old timers who never finished school but could run a plumbing job, read blue prints and do calculations for offsets and run offsets. Lot of Trigonometry in plumbing pipe fitting and sheet metal.

 

[RKMBrown]

Saying government creates jobs is equivalent to saying the IRS creates tax revenue. It's a typical ridiculous statement made by libtardians.

Which society do you live in?

The government has created millions of high paying defense industry jobs
Construction jobs related to roads, bridges, schools, public buildings are all government created
VA Hospitals and medical research are all government created

ROFL.... no they didn't. The owners of the companies in the defense industry created the jobs. The tax payers hired some middle men in government jobs to spend our money on products built by our companies that we, the tax payers, and also some foreign investors invested in. Government is a concept, not a person. Who is this person named government that you think is running around creating jobs with money out of thin air? You think government is some god emperor? Government employees work for us, ya fool.

Such an ignorant child

Those Defense industries do not develop on their own. They are a direct result of the GOVERNMENT contracting for goods and services. Without the GOVERNMENT, those defense industries would not exist

It is the GOVERNMENT that creates those jobs

I see so Boeing does not develop on their own. Boeing only sells to government contracts. Only government buys aircraft. Who knew?

Boeing is a great example

How about that 747 they created on their own? The Government needed a heavy transport plane. Bigger than anything ever built. They decided to compete the bid and awarded two contracts for a flyoff....Boeing and Lockheed.
Lockheed built a plane called the C-5 and won the contract
Boeing built a design which lost but they turned into the 747

Tell us again how the Government does not create jobs

Where did the money come from that "government" uses to "create" jobs? You think spending my money is you "creating" something? Are you daft?

Government spending tax payer dollars is tax payers buying products. Boeing is a corporation that created the jobs, the people work for Boeing, they are Boeing employees. Selling products to customers are what pays the bills. The company and it's investors create the jobs. But without paying customers they have to fire their employees.

 

[kaz]

Hey republicans, how exactly are we supposed to fix the stagnant wage problem?

Right there is what you are doing wrong. Having government "fix" the problem. That actually is the problem. Government creates no economic value, it destroys value. So every time you try to fix it, you make it worse. Here's how you fix it. Stop fixing it.