Hitler, Fascism and the right wing

[Saigon]

Ice Weasel -

I have a fairly good idea what left and right wing means, I think. It's not easy to work as political journalist and interview heads of state if you don't, put it that way.

But nice that you continued to dodge the two questions anyway. That's always a good way of learning and ensuring your arguments hold water,

btw, speaking of dictionary defitions:

fascism
/ˈfæʃɪzəm/
noun (sometimes capital)
1.
any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism

Fascism Define Fascism at Dictionary.com

btw. When you say 'massaged' by academia, keep in mind that you are the one changing the meaning of the term 'fascism'. German historians also considered 'fascism' to be right wing, dating back to the early 1940's, and confirmed by authorities such as Arendt.

 

[Iceweasel]

Ice Weasel -

I have a fairly good idea what left and right wing means, I think. It's not easy to work as political journalist and interview heads of state if you don't, put it that way.

But nice that you continued to dodge the two questions anyway. That's always a good way of learning and ensuring your arguments hold water,

No one can understand things for you. I think you have water on the brain, quite frankly. And no one would pay for your idiotic thoughts, no sale.

btw, speaking of dictionary defitions:

Learn to spell. It's definitions.

fascism

/ˈfæʃɪzəm/
noun (sometimes capital)
1.
any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism

Fascism Define Fascism at Dictionary.com

btw. When you say 'massaged' by academia, keep in mind that you are the one changing the meaning of the term 'fascism'. German historians also considered 'fascism' to be right wing, dating back to the early 1940's, and confirmed by authorities such as Arendt.

I posted the definition of right wing. And now....

Fascism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Full Definition of FASCISM
1
often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2
: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality — J. W. Aldridge>

Which has nothing to do with the right wing in this country, it's closer to leftism. It's a failed thread, in other words.

 

[Saigon]

Ice Weasel -

Yes, fascism is autocratic and dictatorial. All fascist governments are. This was explained in the OP.

Honestly...why are you finding this so difficult to understand? Can you explain, perhaps?

Still waiting for you to answer these two questions:

1) Other fascist governments were very obviously right wing, such as Franco, Antonescu and Stroessner. Do you agree, and if so, how do you explain the fact that most fascists governments were right wing?

2) How do you explain the fact that every major book on this topic (I cited 6 earlier) all confirm Hitler as being right wing?

STOP DODGING.

 

[Meathead]

Ice Weasel -

I have a fairly good idea what left and right wing means, I think. It's not easy to work as political journalist and interview heads of state if you don't, put it that way.

But nice that you continued to dodge the two questions anyway. That's always a good way of learning and ensuring your arguments hold water,

btw, speaking of dictionary defitions:

fascism
/ˈfæʃɪzəm/
noun (sometimes capital)
1.
any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism

Fascism Define Fascism at Dictionary.com

btw. When you say 'massaged' by academia, keep in mind that you are the one changing the meaning of the term 'fascism'. German historians also considered 'fascism' to be rigou righht wing, dating back to the early 1940's, and confirmed by authorities such as Arendt.

You've never heard of Peron? Do you think fascism and socialism are mutually exclusive? There is an old adage that a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. You and your narrow-minded intellect embody that.

That Hitler was a socialist does not jibe into your black and white world.

 

[Saigon]

I think you have water on the brain, quite frankly. And no one would pay for your idiotic thoughts, no sale.

Right - and do you think that may have anything to do with the fact that you've come into a discussion that we both know is far, far, far over your head.

Honestly - had you even HEARD of Antonescu or Stroessner prior to the this thread?

Have you ever read a single book on fascist economics of political theory?

And you wonder why it is that dictionaries don't confirm your wild preconceptions?

 

[Saigon]

Meathead -

Yes, I've spent quite a lot of time in Argentina. And yes - I consider the right-wing politics and extreme-left wing politics to be largely mutually exclusive, even if some populists do plunder policies from both wings, generally out of expediancy.

btw, you also seem to be dodging these questions:

1) Other fascist governments were very obviously right wing, such as Franco, Antonescu and Stroessner. Do you agree, and if so, how do you explain the fact that most fascist governments were right wing if Hitler were not?

2) How do you explain the fact that every major book on this topic (I cited 6 earlier) all confirm Hitler as being right wing?

 

[Iceweasel]

Ice Weasel -

Yes, fascism is autocratic and dictatorial. All fascist governments are. This was explained in the OP.

Who didn't know what it meant? The thread is bullshit.

Honestly...why are you finding this so difficult to understand? Can you explain, perhaps?

Still waiting for you to answer these two questions:

1) Other fascist governments were very obviously right wing, such as Franco, Antonescu and Stroessner. Do you agree, and if so, how do you explain the fact that most fascists governments were right wing?

2) How do you explain the fact that every major book on this topic (I cited 6 earlier) all confirm Hitler as being right wing?

STOP DODGING.

I answered it you fucking MORON.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Fascism is a Left Wing, Government control ideology and the opposite of rightwing, which is individual liberty and freedom

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Ice Weasel -

I have a fairly good idea what left and right wing means, I think. It's not easy to work as political journalist and interview heads of state if you don't, put it that way.

But nice that you continued to dodge the two questions anyway. That's always a good way of learning and ensuring your arguments hold water,

btw, speaking of dictionary defitions:

fascism
/ˈfæʃɪzəm/
noun (sometimes capital)
1.
any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism

Fascism Define Fascism at Dictionary.com

btw. When you say 'massaged' by academia, keep in mind that you are the one changing the meaning of the term 'fascism'. German historians also considered 'fascism' to be right wing, dating back to the early 1940's, and confirmed by authorities such as Arendt.

Dictionary.Com is for stupid people (Liberals), for example

McCarthyism
[muh-kahr-thee-iz-uh m] Spell Syllables

• Word Origin

noun
1.
the practice of making accusations of disloyalty, especially of pro-Communist activity, in many instances unsupported by proof or basedon slight, doubtful, or irrelevant evidence.
2.
the practice of making unfair allegations or using unfair investigative techniques, especially in order to restrict dissent or political criticism.

 

[Saigon]

Weasel -

No, you did not answer either question. Nor will you, because you can't answer.

 

[Meathead]

Meathead -

Yes, I've spent quite a lot of time in Argentina. And yes - I consider the right-wing politics and extreme-left wing politics to be largely mutually exclusive, even if some populists do plunder policies from both wings, generally out of expediancy.

btw, you also seem to be dodging these questions:

1) Other fascist governments were very obviously right wing, such as Franco, Antonescu and Stroessner. Do you agree, and if so, how do you explain the fact that most fascist governments were right wing if Hitler were not?

2) How do you explain the fact that every major book on this topic (I cited 6 earlier) all confirm Hitler as being right wing?

I have certainly not contended fascist governments are only right wing. You think they must be. Here, you are definitely wrong. Hitler was a socialist.

 

[Iceweasel]

Fascism is a Left Wing, Government control ideology and the opposite of rightwing, which is individual liberty and freedom

They are working hard to spin it the other way. And Nazism wasn't socialist. LOL.

 

[Iceweasel]

Weasel -

No, you did not answer either question. Nor will you, because you can't answer.

I did. You can't read. Journalist my ass!

 

[Saigon]

Meathead -

If Hitler was a socialist, can you explain why biographers such as Ian Kershaw (Hubris, Nazi Dictatorship) Richard Overy (Nazi Economic Recovery, Stalin's War) Christopher Browning, Robert Sebag Montefiore and particularly Hannah Arendt (who was there at the time, of course) ALL confirm that Hitler was right wing?

Where are they getting it wrong, do you think?

Also - do you consider Antonescu, Franco and Stroessner to be right-wing fascists? Yes or no?

 

[Mac1958]

Ice Weasel -

I have a fairly good idea what left and right wing means, I think. It's not easy to work as political journalist and interview heads of state if you don't, put it that way..

Do you claim to be an objective journalist?

.

 

[Saigon]

Ice Weasel -

I have a fairly good idea what left and right wing means, I think. It's not easy to work as political journalist and interview heads of state if you don't, put it that way..

Do you claim to be an objective journalist?

.

I'd rather stick to the topic, but just to answer your question briefly - Yes, absolutely. I have opinions, as any journalist does, but it doesn't mean that I have to put my opinions into every story. I don't think it's much different from any professional; be it a doctor, lawyer or shop assistant; keeping their personal opinions about a client or intervew subject quite apart from the work they do.

In reagrds to this thread, I simply don't see this as a partisan issue. Words have meanings. Often people are confused about those meanings and tend to make up their own meanings, which is where they come into conflict with dictionaries. That is what this thread is about.

 

[Iceweasel]

Meathead -

If Hitler was a socialist, can you explain why biographers such as Ian Kershaw (Hubris, Nazi Dictatorship) Richard Overy (Nazi Economic Recovery, Stalin's War) Christopher Browning, Robert Sebag Montefiore and particularly Hannah Arendt (who was there at the time, of course) ALL confirm that Hitler was right wing?

Where are they getting it wrong, do you think?

Supply the context.

“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” Adolf Hitler - See more at: Nazi Germany quotations

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Meathead -

If Hitler was a socialist, can you explain why biographers such as Ian Kershaw (Hubris, Nazi Dictatorship) Richard Overy (Nazi Economic Recovery, Stalin's War) Christopher Browning, Robert Sebag Montefiore and particularly Hannah Arendt (who was there at the time, of course) ALL confirm that Hitler was right wing?

Where are they getting it wrong, do you think?

Also - do you consider Antonescu, Franco and Stroessner to be right-wing fascists? Yes or no?

Dictators by definition are Left wingers.

 

[Mac1958]

Ice Weasel -

I have a fairly good idea what left and right wing means, I think. It's not easy to work as political journalist and interview heads of state if you don't, put it that way..

Do you claim to be an objective journalist?

.

I'd rather stick to the topic, but just to answer your question briefly - Yes, absolutely. I have opinions, as any journalist does, but it doesn't mean that I have to put my opinions into every story. I don't think it's much different from any professional; be it a doctor, lawyer or shop assistant; keeping their personal opinions about a client or intervew subject quite apart from the work they do.

In reagrds to this thread, I simply don't see this as a partisan issue. Words have meanings. Often people are confused about those meanings and tend to make up their own meanings, which is where they come into conflict with dictionaries. That is what this thread is about.

Of course it's a partisan issue. You're essentially equating conservatism with fascism, and it's quite clear to all.

This is precisely the kind of thing I saw repeated countless times in my 18 years in that business. An "objective journalist" approaching a topic with a clear partisan agenda (usually left wing) and presenting it as objectivity. Highlighting facts that support the spin of the piece, ignoring/avoiding/minimizing facts that do not. Then denying that they have done what they have done, swearing that they're being "objective" and "fair".

Over and over and over.

This has been the culture of the "mainstream" media for decades now. It's not a conspiracy or an overt strategy that is plotted and planned.

It's just the culture.

Okay, thanks for the response, pretty much what I expected.

.

 

[Iceweasel]

I'd rather stick to the topic, but just to answer your question briefly - Yes, absolutely. I have opinions, as any journalist does, but it doesn't mean that I have to put my opinions into every story. I don't think it's much different from any professional; be it a doctor, lawyer or shop assistant; keeping their personal opinions about a client or intervew subject quite apart from the work they do.

In reagrds to this thread, I simply don't see this as a partisan issue. Words have meanings. Often people are confused about those meanings and tend to make up their own meanings, which is where they come into conflict with dictionaries. That is what this thread is about.

Well, I posted the dictionary terms, it doesn't agree with you. And you started the thread in an attempt to smear the right. Objective? NOPE.