Hitler, Fascism and the right wing

[Iceweasel]

Never said he started the party....just that he manipulated it once in. I think I agree on most of this post. But the "programme" as far as I now wasnt ever implemented...it was just window dressing.

He was sent to spy on them but found a home instead. He like many of their ideas and the 25 doctrines the Nazis implemented reflected many of them. I posted them earlier, basically worker rights, making the business owner accountable to them and government running the whole show. That's a radical departure from the system they had in place so I don't know how anyone can call it conservative or right wing.

 

[dcraelin]

Wasnt really trying to prove he was a right-winger.....just that he was a tool of right wingers, and really never did anything to advance the left.

You don't consider socialism a left wing ideal then? They were national socialists for a reason. The name was not accidental or misleading. Hitler was used by the right, infiltrated the left and found much to agree with. Took over the party and added the nationalistic/racial flare. To say it's right wing is to focus on the nationalistic aspect and ignore the entire rest of the socio-economic system that became the law of the land.

Which has zip to do with right wing America so the purpose of the thread is a farce.

Well like I said I think socialism/leftism was very popular in Germany at the time. Hitler was just trying to draw people in, disrupt genuine leftist /socialist partys with empty rhetoric. The night of the long knives reinforces that idea. Hitler despised democracy and said so. His thugs routinely attacked parties of the true left and communists. His government enforced the labor laws the industrialists wanted. I hardly think that makes it a leftest socio-economic system. He probably would not have agreed with ideas of small government either so I guess that does separate him from at least the rhetoric of US "conservatives".

 

[Political Junky]

It's very clear why the Right admires ignorance and denounces intellectuals, just look what they've accomplished.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I do not understand how people in Europe today can tolerate the level of government control that is allowed by people living there. Have they no concept of liberty?

Have you ever been to Europe? Have you ever spoken with a European? What is your concept of liberty?

 

[Bush92]

Yes and yes. I would not be in favor of the massive digital surveillance that exist there, or the socialist governmental system. More government = less personal liberty.

 

[Bush92]

It's very clear why the Right admires ignorance and denounces intellectuals, just look what they've accomplished.

Spoken like a true narcissistic liberal.
Great Conservative Thinkers 16 People Who Helped Shape Republican Theory

 

[Saigon]

Bripat -

I have read more on this topic than you have, and by some distance.

Try and post with a little common sense.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I do not understand how people in Europe today can tolerate the level of government control that is allowed by people living there. Have they no concept of liberty?

Have you ever been to Europe? Have you ever spoken with a European? What is your concept of liberty?

I've lived in Europe, I've live in America, I've lived in Asia. Europe is better, you feel more free than in the US. The main part is from a crime point of view. Politicians don't feel the need to create crime in order to be tough on it. Education works for the people, health often works for the people, govt is there for the people.

In the US it isn't. In Asia, well....... depends where you are, where I was it was crazy.

 

[dcraelin]

Fascism is not a "right wing" ideology. Spectrum is based on amount of government control. Hence Nazi Germany is on the political left. The spectrum below is flawed, but pretty close to reality.

I think a better scale would take in to account true control. Whether of the government or of large corporate power, or of another form of aristocracy. A state with a weak government may have a group that has a lot of control behind the scenes. An anarchist "small government" might have roving bands of thugs that really dominate the population. I see the nazis as pretty much the enforcers for the industrialists of germany. I also see the Communists as a type of aristocracy, tho I think their leaders believed their own rhetoric more.

 

[Bush92]

I do not understand how people in Europe today can tolerate the level of government control that is allowed by people living there. Have they no concept of liberty?

Have you ever been to Europe? Have you ever spoken with a European? What is your concept of liberty?

I've lived in Europe, I've live in America, I've lived in Asia. Europe is better, you feel more free than in the US. The main part is from a crime point of view. Politicians don't feel the need to create crime in order to be tough on it. Education works for the people, health often works for the people, govt is there for the people.

In the US it isn't. In Asia, well....... depends where you are, where I was it was crazy.

You mean like Democrats creating a Black welfare state in order to exploit it for votes? Also,government is never "there for the people." Government exist to create more government control.

 

[Saigon]

Iceweasel -

Please stop spamming the thread.

Honestly, you arrive on a thread in which you had never heard of three of the politicians being discussed, you have never been to the countries they come from, do not speak the languages of those countries, have never studied these topics and flat out refuse to read books on these topics.

And you expect what - respect? That people will listen to you?

What value do you think your opinion of Stroessner has here?

 

[Saigon]

Bush -

Name one country in Europe that has a socialist government.

 

[Bush92]

Fascism is not a "right wing" ideology. Spectrum is based on amount of government control. Hence Nazi Germany is on the political left. The spectrum below is flawed, but pretty close to reality.

I think a better scale would take in to account true control. Whether of the government or of large corporate power, or of another form of aristocracy. A state with a weak government may be have a group that has a lot of control behind the scenes. An anarchist "small government" might have roving bands of thugs that really dominate the population. I see the nazis as pretty much the enforcers for the industrialists of germany. I also see the Communists as a type of aristocracy, tho I think their leaders believed their own rhetoric more.

Corporate leaders in Germany thought they could control Hitler. Found that was not true by a long shot. You had to have a Hitler edict for everything in Nazi, Germany. Classic example is whether or not to have horse racing on Sunday's in 1943-44.

 

[Bush92]

Bush -

Name one country in Europe that has a socialist government.

Greece, France, UK, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, and on and on... Socialized health care, education, transportation, = socialism. Look what all the socialization got Greece? Totally broke.

"Socialism works fine until you run out of other peoples money"
- Margaret Thatcher

 

[Saigon]

I do not understand how people in Europe today can tolerate the level of government control that is allowed by people living there. Have they no concept of liberty?

I believe we have much more liberty than in the US actually.

For one thing, we are allowed genuine choice at the ballot box, not just Dem or Gop.

I also see our excellent health & education systems as representing liberty.

 

[Political Junky]

Bush -

Name one country in Europe that has a socialist government.

Greece, France, UK, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, and on and on... Socialized health care, education, transportation, = socialism. Look what all the socialization got Greece? Totally broke.

"Socialism works fine until you run out of other peoples money"
- Margaret Thatcher

Thatcher knew better than to mess with the healthcare in the UK.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Idiot. Ever heard of Messerschmidt, Krupp, Porsche, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Toldt, Heinkel, etc etc, or Baron von Ribbentropp? OR for that matter Mitsubishi and Hirohito. That's RW totalitarianism or fascism. LW totalitarianism is communism- NO corporations or aristocratic titles. RW per se meaning small gov't and freedom is the New BS GOP propaganda, dupes. Socialism can just as easily be small gov't and freedom. Of course, you brainwashed chumpsw "think" socialism is communism...

So, no one on the right has the right to believe in a smaller government and you trot out state run business for war making machinery as your proof? RETARD!

We had smaller government, the Founders and authors of our Constitution found it wanting. Wanting a stronger central government while balancing the rights of the states, the Constitution is a document written by compromise, something the fringe of today have eschewed and most don't understand.

 

[dcraelin]

Fascism is not a "right wing" ideology. Spectrum is based on amount of government control. Hence Nazi Germany is on the political left. The spectrum below is flawed, but pretty close to reality.

I think a better scale would take in to account true control. Whether of the government or of large corporate power, or of another form of aristocracy. A state with a weak government may be have a group that has a lot of control behind the scenes. An anarchist "small government" might have roving bands of thugs that really dominate the population. I see the nazis as pretty much the enforcers for the industrialists of germany. I also see the Communists as a type of aristocracy, tho I think their leaders believed their own rhetoric more.

Corporate leaders in Germany thought they could control Hitler. Found that was not true by a long shot. You had to have a Hitler edict for everything in Nazi, Germany. Classic example is whether or not to have horse racing on Sunday's in 1943-44.

Yes, like I said previously, they created a Frankenstein...they lost control of him, but I would say that was relatively late.

 

[Bush92]

I do not understand how people in Europe today can tolerate the level of government control that is allowed by people living there. Have they no concept of liberty?

I believe we have much more liberty than in the US actually.

For one thing, we are allowed genuine choice at the ballot box, not just Dem or Gop.

I also see our excellent health & education systems as representing liberty.

We have many political parties in the U.S., but the two party system has led to generations of political stability. How can government control of education and health care lead to greater liberty for the people? They are mutually exclusive. Politics1 - Director of U.S. Political Parties

 

[Bush92]

Bush -

Name one country in Europe that has a socialist government.

Greece, France, UK, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, and on and on... Socialized health care, education, transportation, = socialism. Look what all the socialization got Greece? Totally broke.

"Socialism works fine until you run out of other peoples money"
- Margaret Thatcher

Thatcher knew better than to mess with the healthcare in the UK.

Sad wasn't it. Too bad. think of the savings to the taxpayer. All that extra capital that could be invested in the economy and grow it.