Hitler, Fascism and the right wing

[Discombobulated]

Iceweasel-

I suggest that at this point you spend some time catching up on the history and politics of the Nazi regime, and then get back to us.

I have tried to explain things to you quite patiently, but at this stage it is clear how difficult you find these comcepts to understand.

You might just as well be teaching history to a German Shepherd.

 

[Saigon]

You have to excuse me if I'm not impressed with your pretensions of intellectual superiority. What you have read is almost entirely left-wing propaganda. Reading bullshit doesn't enlighten much.

I cited 6 authors and 8 books earlier in the thread. Which of them were left wing?

The authors were Arendt, Kershaw, Overy, Browning, Marris and Montefiore.

I'll help you out - none of them are left-wing.

Someone earlier mentioned the anti-intellectual streak that seems to come up in threads like this, and your post smacks of it.

 

[Saigon]

Government education and government healthcare do not produce better outcomes.

Again, this is a bit off-topic, but just to answer this quickly - many EU countries do produce better learning and healthcare outcomes than the US does, when the entire population is taken into account. It's just a fact. (I might start another thread on this soon, so we can discuss this more then.)

 

[Discombobulated]

You have to excuse me if I'm not impressed with your pretensions of intellectual superiority. What you have read is almost entirely left-wing propaganda. Reading bullshit doesn't enlighten much.

I cited 6 authors and 8 books earlier in the thread. Which of them were left wing?

The authors were Arendt, Kershaw, Overy, Browning, Marris and Montefiore.

I'll help you out - none of them are left-wing.

Someone earlier mentioned the anti-intellectual streak that seems to come up in threads like this, and your post smacks of it.

It doesn't matter how much actual legitimate history you cite. They can't comprehend it because it doesn't fit with their superficial definitions or half wit rhetoric.

 

[Iceweasel]

btw. Can we try to stick to the topic of fascism in general and not get too sidetracked into discussing other topics?

As interesring as Libertarianism, EU defence policies and the Founding Fathers are - they're not really our topic here.

I would also suggest everyone ignore the obvious trolls and spamming.

You're on a US message board trying to soft shoe European style socialism while telling us what a failed system we have. The trolling is all yours..

 

[Discombobulated]

Wasnt really trying to prove he was a right-winger.....just that he was a tool of right wingers, and really never did anything to advance the left.

You don't consider socialism a left wing ideal then? They were national socialists for a reason. The name was not accidental or misleading. Hitler was used by the right, infiltrated the left and found much to agree with. Took over the party and added the nationalistic/racial flare. To say it's right wing is to focus on the nationalistic aspect and ignore the entire rest of the socio-economic system that became the law of the land.

Which has zip to do with right wing America so the purpose of the thread is a farce.

There are no legitimate historians anywhere who would concur with your view.

 

[Iceweasel]

It doesn't matter how much actual legitimate history you cite. They can't comprehend it because it doesn't fit with their superficial definitions or half wit rhetoric.

When do you stop gazing into the mirror?

 

[Saigon]

You have to excuse me if I'm not impressed with your pretensions of intellectual superiority. What you have read is almost entirely left-wing propaganda. Reading bullshit doesn't enlighten much.

I cited 6 authors and 8 books earlier in the thread. Which of them were left wing?

The authors were Arendt, Kershaw, Overy, Browning, Marris and Montefiore.

I'll help you out - none of them are left-wing.

Someone earlier mentioned the anti-intellectual streak that seems to come up in threads like this, and your post smacks of it.

It doesn't matter how much actual legitimate history you cite. They can't comprehend it because it doesn't fit with their superficial definitions or half wit rhetoric.

It does amaze that not only do some posters apparently filter the history they read by the political stance of the author - but they assume everyone else does as well.

And we wonder why people find these concepts so difficult to grasp.

No one is ever going to learn history by reading only left wing or right wing books....the only way to really learn is to read voraciously and filter by quality. Read the best books, the books that have won awards and are written by people who have excellent credentials. The books that are cited and quoted in other respectable texts. Read widely. Read books by people with different vews and backgrounds. It takes a bit of time, but if there is another shortcut for learning complex material, I know I haven't found it.

 

[Saigon]

It doesn't matter how much actual legitimate history you cite. They can't comprehend it because it doesn't fit with their superficial definitions or half wit rhetoric.

When do you stop gazing into the mirror?

How many of the half dozen authors cited have you read, Weasel?

Because the ones listed are about the most reknowned people working in this field, and any history course on Fascist Politics will include 2 or 3 of them.

Do you really think you can come to understand something as complex as Fascist theory by spending 5 minutes on Wikipedia?

 

[Iceweasel]

There are no legitimate historians anywhere who would concur with your view.

And you get to pick who's legitimate? I posted facts, you posited opinion, backed up by assertion and supported by conclusions.

 

[Discombobulated]

It doesn't matter how much actual legitimate history you cite. They can't comprehend it because it doesn't fit with their superficial definitions or half wit rhetoric.

When do you stop gazing into the mirror?

More meaningless nonsense.....big surprise.

 

[Discombobulated]

There are no legitimate historians anywhere who would concur with your view.

And you get to pick who's legitimate? I posted facts, you posited opinion, backed up by assertion and supported by conclusions.

You have yet to establish any part of your hair brained premise.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Yes and yes. I would not be in favor of the massive digital surveillance that exist there, or the socialist governmental system. More government = less personal liberty.

The purpose of technology used to provide protection to the citizenry seems to me to provide greater liberty of movement, only those with criminal intent seem to suffer an inconvenience. Consider, only those records which may have recorded criminal activity are ever reviewed. And, many of the surveillance tools are owned by the private sector providing some protection to their business or home, at least here in the US.

The streets in Europe are much cleaner than here in the States, public transportation is cleaner, newer and more efficient in Europe and Asia than here in the States. We can learn from others; sadly our nation is broken by this fear of the word Socialism. Western Democracies are our allies and most enjoy a balance of capitalism and socialism as well as personal liberty. Euopeans don't fear or experience a loss of everything they worked for do to a serious illness in the family.

Why do we spend so much on Defense, and so little to repair, renew and replace an aging infrastructure? Recently I learned that some of the electrical transmission lines underground are leaking electricity in a number of regions around our country - sounds third worldish - which have killed pets and shocked people who come in contact with metal poles, fire hydrants and grates.

 

[Discombobulated]

And yes I get to pick who's legitimate because you wouldn't know the difference.

 

[francoHFW]

The USA will come back. We have the most natural resources and great workers. IT'S JUST THAT REAGANIST POLICIES/VOODOO tax rates have been wrecking the nonrich and the country for 30 years, not to mention brainwashing the hater dupes for 30 years- see sig. We FINALLY have control of our health industry, things are slowly turning around.

 

[Discombobulated]

It doesn't matter how much actual legitimate history you cite. They can't comprehend it because it doesn't fit with their superficial definitions or half wit rhetoric.

When do you stop gazing into the mirror?

How many of the half dozen authors cited have you read, Weasel?

Because the ones listed are about the most reknowned people working in this field, and any history course on Fascist Politics will include 2 or 3 of them.

Do you really think you can come to understand something as complex as Fascist theory by spending 5 minutes on Wikipedia?

He obviously never read a book in his life. Just goes to show that people can't learn as much from websites as they thought.

 

[Iceweasel]

How many of the half dozen authors cited have you read, Weasel?

Because the ones listed are about the most reknowned people working in this field, and any history course on Fascist Politics will include 2 or 3 of them.

Do you really think you can come to understand something as complex as Fascist theory by spending 5 minutes on Wikipedia?

I don't use wikipedia and never made that claim. It's another lie. Those are NOT the cites I posted.

Nor do I need an author try to massage the meaning of socialism to not mean what it means. That's an opinion, not a fact. You love opinion and ignore facts, we get it. You've made it clear that you can't accept the Nazis' own words on the matter.

And you still haven't said what it has to do with the American right wing.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I do not understand how people in Europe today can tolerate the level of government control that is allowed by people living there. Have they no concept of liberty?

Have you ever been to Europe? Have you ever spoken with a European? What is your concept of liberty?

I've lived in Europe, I've live in America, I've lived in Asia. Europe is better, you feel more free than in the US. The main part is from a crime point of view. Politicians don't feel the need to create crime in order to be tough on it. Education works for the people, health often works for the people, govt is there for the people.

In the US it isn't. In Asia, well....... depends where you are, where I was it was crazy.

You mean like Democrats creating a Black welfare state in order to exploit it for votes? Also,government is never "there for the people." Government exist to create more government control.

Methinks most of your opinions are formed in your head, reality seems to be a challenge for you.

 

[bripat9643]

...we have better economic mobility than you do. The American Dream is a myth. Here, it's more of a reality.

That is liberty.

And THAT is nonsense, which stems, as it must, from the Advocacy of Foreign Ideas HOSTILE to American principle. And THAT is why those who are NOT US CITIZENS should NEVER BE ALLOWED TO DECEITFULLY POSE AS US CITIZENS on internet forums, as such is a FRAUDULENT MEANS TO INFLUENCE THE IGNORANT.

He's not posing as a U.S. citizen. I have no problem with people from other countries participating in this forum. However, the fact that they are foreigners indicates a certain level of ignorance regarding this country and the principles it was founded on.

 

[g5000]

Vote Obama!