How Evil is Libertarianism anyway?

[bripat9643]

Alfalfa? If that is meant as a racial pejorative, you really are off you Axis. BTW, Libertarians are not evil by design, they are simply naive, impractical and self centered.

I don't consider libertarians 'evil' either. Just childish in their understanding of power and coersion, with and moral loopholes in their conception of coercion that you could drive a truck through.

Ultimately libertarianism is unsustainable as its inherently exploitative. It will either fall to the will of the people at the abuses due to a sense of simple fairness inherent to games theory. Or it will collapse into oligarchy under unchecked private power. But libertarianism as imagined by many libertarians wouldn't survive in either scenario.

Yes, we can run our own lives, we don't need government to do it for us. I feel you

It doesn't really matter how you feel about government. The exploitative nature of libertarianism remains. And its in this exploitative nature that libertarianism's unsustainability are sown.

it doesn't really matter how you feel about libertarianism (freedom), the exploitative criminal nature of government remains and the unsustainability of democracy couldn't be more obvious.

Government has existed for millennia. Your claim that it cannot be sustained would be contradicted by history.

Libertarianism doesn't exist anywhere that I'm aware of. Its too self corrupting, self defeating, inefficient and weak to survive.

Somolia would probably be the nation closest to your ideal of 'freedom'.

I said democracy cannot be sustained, not government. Somalia is not an example of freedom. However, it's a good example of the moral code you endorse.

 

[bripat9643]

You do own it when the government takes it, fool.

Not when you pay it.Or when its paid for you through lawful seizures and auction. Then it belongs to the people.

So 'your money' is never given to anyone.

ROFL! Yeah, and your car belongs to the thief after he takes it. At least, that's what your theory of ownership says.

You can't really be this stupid, can you?

I simply don't accept your conclusion that taxation is theft. Nor does the US government, the founders, the US constitution, our courts or our laws.

So we're all 'this stupid'....and only you've got it figured out, huh?

It doesn't matter what you accept.

Me personally? Or me, the founders, the courts, the law, and the constitution?

Because we're all on one side of this issue. And you're on the other. And as the very real existence of mandatory taxation demonstrates, its most definitely relevant.

All of the above. Truth is truth. You argument is known as the logical fallacy argumentum ad populum.

 

[kaz]

ABSURD ^^^

You have no understanding of governance, the history and evolution of the law or how and why COTUS was a compromise.

You need to click the needle on your sarcasm detector, it's stuck.

You gotta read the discussion to get the posts, Alfalfa

Alfalfa? If that is meant as a racial pejorative, you really are off you Axis. BTW, Libertarians are not evil by design, they are simply naive, impractical and self centered.

I don't consider libertarians 'evil' either. Just childish in their understanding of power and coersion, with and moral loopholes in their conception of coercion that you could drive a truck through.

Ultimately libertarianism is unsustainable as its inherently exploitative. It will either fall to the will of the people at the abuses due to a sense of simple fairness inherent to games theory. Or it will collapse into oligarchy under unchecked private power. But libertarianism as imagined by many libertarians wouldn't survive in either scenario.

Yes, we can run our own lives, we don't need government to do it for us. I feel you

It doesn't really matter how you feel about government. The exploitative nature of libertarianism remains. And its in this exploitative nature that libertarianism's unsustainability are sown.

I don't want shit from you is "exploitative?" No wonder your legs are spread, panda

 

[Centinel]

The exploitative nature of libertarianism remains.

Libertarianism is based upon the stance that it's wrong to initiation aggression against one's fellow man. How exactly is this stance "exploitative"?

 

[Skylar]

You're post has nothing to do with what we're discussing. Check the question I'm responding to.....then the word salad that is your reply.

You said that slavery is aligned with libertarian values. It's not. Since slavery is aggression, it is antithetical to libertarian values.

I said that slavery flourished when our nation was most closely aligned to libertarian values. You're quite awful at paraphrasing.

And I offered slavery as something more oppressive than our government. You have yet to disagree.

So if you're saying that slavery is anti-libertarian, I agree.

I'm saying exactly what I said; slavery flourished when our nation was most closely aligned to libertarian values.

Libertarianism is inherently exploitative. It has few if any checks on concentrations of personal power, leading inevitably to vast inequities in personal power. And vast, unchecked inequities in personal power are all that's necessary for slavery, indentured servitude, and varying degrees of crass exploitation to flourish.

 

[Skylar]

You need to click the needle on your sarcasm detector, it's stuck.

You gotta read the discussion to get the posts, Alfalfa

Alfalfa? If that is meant as a racial pejorative, you really are off you Axis. BTW, Libertarians are not evil by design, they are simply naive, impractical and self centered.

I don't consider libertarians 'evil' either. Just childish in their understanding of power and coersion, with and moral loopholes in their conception of coercion that you could drive a truck through.

Ultimately libertarianism is unsustainable as its inherently exploitative. It will either fall to the will of the people at the abuses due to a sense of simple fairness inherent to games theory. Or it will collapse into oligarchy under unchecked private power. But libertarianism as imagined by many libertarians wouldn't survive in either scenario.

Yes, we can run our own lives, we don't need government to do it for us. I feel you

It doesn't really matter how you feel about government. The exploitative nature of libertarianism remains. And its in this exploitative nature that libertarianism's unsustainability are sown.

I don't want shit from you is "exploitative?" No wonder your legs are spread, panda

Your tell is showing.

 

[Skylar]

The exploitative nature of libertarianism remains.

Libertarianism is based upon the stance that it's wrong to initiation aggression against one's fellow man. How exactly is this stance "exploitative"?

Most libertarians aren't against mandatory taxation. Even by libertarian standards, you're pretty extreme.

You're more of an anarcho-libertarian. Which is quite the fringe subset of the philosophy.

 

[Centinel]

You're post has nothing to do with what we're discussing. Check the question I'm responding to.....then the word salad that is your reply.

You said that slavery is aligned with libertarian values. It's not. Since slavery is aggression, it is antithetical to libertarian values.

I said that slavery flourished when our nation was most closely aligned to libertarian values. You're quite awful at paraphrasing.

And I offered slavery as something more oppressive than our government. You have yet to disagree.

So if you're saying that slavery is anti-libertarian, I agree.

I'm saying exactly what I said; slavery flourished when our nation was most closely aligned to libertarian values.

Libertarianism is inherently exploitative. It has few if any checks on concentrations of personal power, leading inevitably to vast inequities in personal power. And vast, unchecked inequities in personal power are all that's necessary for slavery, indentured servitude, and varying degrees of crass exploitation to flourish.

Slavery is an initiation of aggression, so is antithetical to libertarian philosophy.

 

[Centinel]

The exploitative nature of libertarianism remains.

Libertarianism is based upon the stance that it's wrong to initiation aggression against one's fellow man. How exactly is this stance "exploitative"?

Most libertarians aren't against mandatory taxation. Even by libertarian standards, you're pretty extreme.

You're more of an anarcho-libertarian. Which is quite the fringe subset of the philosophy.

And how is the moral stance that it's wrong to initiate aggression against one's fellow man exploitative?

 

[Skylar]

You're post has nothing to do with what we're discussing. Check the question I'm responding to.....then the word salad that is your reply.

You said that slavery is aligned with libertarian values. It's not. Since slavery is aggression, it is antithetical to libertarian values.

I said that slavery flourished when our nation was most closely aligned to libertarian values. You're quite awful at paraphrasing.

And I offered slavery as something more oppressive than our government. You have yet to disagree.

So if you're saying that slavery is anti-libertarian, I agree.

I'm saying exactly what I said; slavery flourished when our nation was most closely aligned to libertarian values.

Libertarianism is inherently exploitative. It has few if any checks on concentrations of personal power, leading inevitably to vast inequities in personal power. And vast, unchecked inequities in personal power are all that's necessary for slavery, indentured servitude, and varying degrees of crass exploitation to flourish.

Slavery is an initiation of aggression, so is antithetical to libertarian philosophy.

Which is why libertarianism is so laughably unsustainable. As the seeds of its own destruction are sown within the vast, unchecked concentrations of personal power that libertarianism allows and encourages.

Did you not follow my posts about how obviously unsustainable libertarianism is.....and why?

 

[Centinel]

You said that slavery is aligned with libertarian values. It's not. Since slavery is aggression, it is antithetical to libertarian values.

I said that slavery flourished when our nation was most closely aligned to libertarian values. You're quite awful at paraphrasing.

And I offered slavery as something more oppressive than our government. You have yet to disagree.

So if you're saying that slavery is anti-libertarian, I agree.

I'm saying exactly what I said; slavery flourished when our nation was most closely aligned to libertarian values.

Libertarianism is inherently exploitative. It has few if any checks on concentrations of personal power, leading inevitably to vast inequities in personal power. And vast, unchecked inequities in personal power are all that's necessary for slavery, indentured servitude, and varying degrees of crass exploitation to flourish.

Slavery is an initiation of aggression, so is antithetical to libertarian philosophy.

Which is why libertarianism is so laughably unsustainable. As the seeds of its own destruction are sown within the vast, unchecked concentrations of personal power that libertarianism allows and encourages.

Did you not follow my posts about how obviously unsustainable libertarianism is.....and why?

The position that it's wrong to initiate aggression against one's fellow man isn't unsustainable.

 

[kaz]

Alfalfa? If that is meant as a racial pejorative, you really are off you Axis. BTW, Libertarians are not evil by design, they are simply naive, impractical and self centered.

I don't consider libertarians 'evil' either. Just childish in their understanding of power and coersion, with and moral loopholes in their conception of coercion that you could drive a truck through.

Ultimately libertarianism is unsustainable as its inherently exploitative. It will either fall to the will of the people at the abuses due to a sense of simple fairness inherent to games theory. Or it will collapse into oligarchy under unchecked private power. But libertarianism as imagined by many libertarians wouldn't survive in either scenario.

Yes, we can run our own lives, we don't need government to do it for us. I feel you

It doesn't really matter how you feel about government. The exploitative nature of libertarianism remains. And its in this exploitative nature that libertarianism's unsustainability are sown.

I don't want shit from you is "exploitative?" No wonder your legs are spread, panda

Your tell is showing.

I see, you're seeing from my telling you to go fuck yourself that I want shit from you that I want free shit. You see what you want to see, don't you?

 

[Rustic]

I am becoming more and more libertarian every day, Due to the behavior of our federal government, actually I should say it's no longer the People's Government but career politicians own it now and it's just a fucked up Banana Republic anymore. LOL

 

[kaz]

You said that slavery is aligned with libertarian values. It's not. Since slavery is aggression, it is antithetical to libertarian values.

I said that slavery flourished when our nation was most closely aligned to libertarian values. You're quite awful at paraphrasing.

And I offered slavery as something more oppressive than our government. You have yet to disagree.

So if you're saying that slavery is anti-libertarian, I agree.

I'm saying exactly what I said; slavery flourished when our nation was most closely aligned to libertarian values.

Libertarianism is inherently exploitative. It has few if any checks on concentrations of personal power, leading inevitably to vast inequities in personal power. And vast, unchecked inequities in personal power are all that's necessary for slavery, indentured servitude, and varying degrees of crass exploitation to flourish.

Slavery is an initiation of aggression, so is antithetical to libertarian philosophy.

Which is why libertarianism is so laughably unsustainable. As the seeds of its own destruction are sown within the vast, unchecked concentrations of personal power that libertarianism allows and encourages.

Did you not follow my posts about how obviously unsustainable libertarianism is.....and why?

Yes, the natural state of man is wanting free shit form other people so we don't have to work, I feel you

 

[Skylar]

The exploitative nature of libertarianism remains.

Libertarianism is based upon the stance that it's wrong to initiation aggression against one's fellow man. How exactly is this stance "exploitative"?

Most libertarians aren't against mandatory taxation. Even by libertarian standards, you're pretty extreme.

You're more of an anarcho-libertarian. Which is quite the fringe subset of the philosophy.

And how is the moral stance that it's wrong to initiate aggression against one's fellow man exploitative?

Its your argument. You tell me.

My argument is that libertarianism has few and feeble checks for the concentration of personal power.Especially the radical 'no taxation' anarcho-libertarianism that you favor.

Monopolies, exploitation, environmental damage, anti-competative business practices, intimidation, rampant nepotism, propaganda, racial discrimination, harassment.....just to start. As any concentration of power, unchecked, will eventually be abused. Libertarianism has no checks for these wild abuses.

And that's just what is allowed within the law.

The idea that with vast personal power, wealth, influence and resources that this power won't be used to influence the laws to their benefit or to circumvent the laws is ludicrious. Of course it will. Its inevitable. And as the laws are changed to favor those with unchecked power.....libertarianism dies. And oligarchy takes its place.

Your philosophy is too weak to stand in the form you imagine. Which is why it doesn't exist in practice.

 

[Skylar]

I don't consider libertarians 'evil' either. Just childish in their understanding of power and coersion, with and moral loopholes in their conception of coercion that you could drive a truck through.

Ultimately libertarianism is unsustainable as its inherently exploitative. It will either fall to the will of the people at the abuses due to a sense of simple fairness inherent to games theory. Or it will collapse into oligarchy under unchecked private power. But libertarianism as imagined by many libertarians wouldn't survive in either scenario.

Yes, we can run our own lives, we don't need government to do it for us. I feel you

It doesn't really matter how you feel about government. The exploitative nature of libertarianism remains. And its in this exploitative nature that libertarianism's unsustainability are sown.

I don't want shit from you is "exploitative?" No wonder your legs are spread, panda

Your tell is showing.

I see, you're seeing from my telling you to go fuck yourself that I want shit from you that I want free shit. You see what you want to see, don't you?

I see your tell: as your argument collapses, you lean harder one awkward attempts at insult.

At this point, its all you have left. You're done.

 

[Centinel]

Its your argument. You tell me.

My argument is that libertarianism has few and feeble checks for the concentration of personal power.Especially the radical 'no taxation' anarcho-libertarianism that you favor.

Monopolies, exploitation, environmental damage, anti-competative business practices, intimidation, rampant nepotism, propaganda, racial discrimination, harassment.....just to start. As any concentration of power, unchecked, will eventually be abused. Libertarianism has no checks for these wild abuses.

I'm not sure how these result from people thinking that it's wrong to initiate aggression against one's fellow man.

And that's just what is allowed within the law.

The idea that with vast personal power, wealth, influence and resources that this power won't be used to influence the laws to their benefit or to circumvent the laws is ludicrious. Of course it will. Its inevitable. And as the laws are changed to favor those with unchecked power.....libertarianism dies. And oligarchy takes its place.

Your philosophy is too weak to stand in the form you imagine. Which is why it doesn't exist in practice.

My philosophy doesn't exist? Well technically it doesn't, because it's an idea, but lots of people hold it, just as many hold the idea that it's fine to initiate aggression against one's fellow man. I simply choose to be in the former category.

And the OP still hasn't explained how it is evil to consider it wrong to initiate aggression against one's fellow man.

 

[Skylar]

I said that slavery flourished when our nation was most closely aligned to libertarian values. You're quite awful at paraphrasing.

And I offered slavery as something more oppressive than our government. You have yet to disagree.

So if you're saying that slavery is anti-libertarian, I agree.

I'm saying exactly what I said; slavery flourished when our nation was most closely aligned to libertarian values.

Libertarianism is inherently exploitative. It has few if any checks on concentrations of personal power, leading inevitably to vast inequities in personal power. And vast, unchecked inequities in personal power are all that's necessary for slavery, indentured servitude, and varying degrees of crass exploitation to flourish.

Slavery is an initiation of aggression, so is antithetical to libertarian philosophy.

Which is why libertarianism is so laughably unsustainable. As the seeds of its own destruction are sown within the vast, unchecked concentrations of personal power that libertarianism allows and encourages.

Did you not follow my posts about how obviously unsustainable libertarianism is.....and why?

The position that it's wrong to initiate aggression against one's fellow man isn't unsustainable.

The consequences of no mandatory taxation, few and feeble checks on personal power, and few and feeble checks on abuses of that power.....is exploitation and the end of libertarianism.

There's a reason why we're discussing your philosophy hypothetically. It doesn't last long in the real world. Its inherently unsustainable in practice. And isn't being practiced.....anywhere. For that exact reason.

Its like anarchy or communism. Its an ivory tower ideal that like a hot house orchid, wilts and dies when exposed to the non-ivory tower real world.

 

[kaz]

Yes, we can run our own lives, we don't need government to do it for us. I feel you

It doesn't really matter how you feel about government. The exploitative nature of libertarianism remains. And its in this exploitative nature that libertarianism's unsustainability are sown.

I don't want shit from you is "exploitative?" No wonder your legs are spread, panda

Your tell is showing.

I see, you're seeing from my telling you to go fuck yourself that I want shit from you that I want free shit. You see what you want to see, don't you?

I see your tell: as your argument collapses, you lean harder one awkward attempts at insult.

At this point, its all you have left. You're done.

I see your tell: as you ignore all arguments, you lean harder towards being a leech wanting free shit.

At this point, it's all you have left. Dependency. You're done

 

[Centinel]

The consequences of no mandatory taxation, few and feeble checks on personal power, and few and feeble checks on abuses of that power.....is exploitation and the end of libertarianism.

There's a reason why we're discussing your philosophy hypothetically. It doesn't last long in the real world. Its inherently unsustainable in practice. And isn't being practiced.....anywhere. For that exact reason.

Its like anarchy or communism. Its an ivory tower ideal that like a hot house orchid, wilts and dies when exposed to the non-ivory tower real world.

Libertarians oppose the initiation of aggression. So personal power and abuses of power and exploitation would rightly be condemned by libertarians when they violate people's person or property.