How Many Christians Believe that Heaven is REALLY Real?

[JimBowie1958]

The exact description of quid pro quo.
We agree.
It can't be grace if there is an "if".

Christ didn't have to die on the cross. He could have escaped and moved to the Bahamas but He willingly chose to sacrifice Himself on behalf of ALL sinners on earth. That's grace! To claim that graceful act one must accept it by accepting Him (Jesus Christ). If you reject Him then you reject His graceful act and grace, itself.

Jesus didn't willingly die on the cross, he was ratted out, and if not for that, he would have never been crucified.

Jesus had numerous time He could have stopped the illicit process by which He was condemned and He did not do it. He could have objected to his night time trial which was illegal under Jewish law, and He could have played on Pilates superstitiousness and claimed to have been some kind of deity who would punish Pilate.

But He did not. At each moment in His arrest and trials when He could have spoken in his own defense and gotten off, He remained silent.

He chose to die, and if you weren't so ignorant on the topic you would realize that instead of spewing your ignorant horse shit about it.

 

[MrMax]

Christ didn't have to die on the cross. He could have escaped and moved to the Bahamas but He willingly chose to sacrifice Himself on behalf of ALL sinners on earth. That's grace! To claim that graceful act one must accept it by accepting Him (Jesus Christ). If you reject Him then you reject His graceful act and grace, itself.

Jesus didn't willingly die on the cross, he was ratted out, and if not for that, he would have never been crucified.

Jesus had numerous time He could have stopped the illicit process by which He was condemned and He did not do it. He could have objected to his night time trial which was illegal under Jewish law, and He could have played on Pilates superstitiousness and claimed to have been some kind of deity who would punish Pilate.

But He did not. At each moment in His arrest and trials when He could have spoken in his own defense and gotten off, He remained silent.

He chose to die, and if you weren't so ignorant on the topic you would realize that instead of spewing your ignorant horse shit about it.

Jesus didn't choose to die, otherwise, why didn't he turn himself in?
Jesus, IF he remained silent, did it because opening his mouth would have gotten him a beating.

 

[DriftingSand]

The exact description of quid pro quo.
We agree.
It can't be grace if there is an "if".

Christ didn't have to die on the cross. He could have escaped and moved to the Bahamas but He willingly chose to sacrifice Himself on behalf of ALL sinners on earth. That's grace! To claim that graceful act one must accept it by accepting Him (Jesus Christ). If you reject Him then you reject His graceful act and grace, itself.

If it is undeserved favor, those that reject it would receive it anyway.
The "if" is the giveaway.

Does anyone believe that they will be saved if they don't repent of their sin? Can a child molester continue molesting kids and still be rewarded in Heaven? A serial rapist? A mass murderer?

Acts 2:38, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Acts 3:19, "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"

Mark 1:15, "And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel."

Believers in Christ are subject to certain requirements: Belief in Christ; repentance of our sins; charitable love towards our neighbors; love of God; prayer; etc.

 

[DriftingSand]

Jesus didn't choose to die, otherwise, why didn't he turn himself in?
Jesus, IF he remained silent, did it because opening his mouth would have gotten him a beating.

1) Christ went into the heart of the religious community that hated Him knowing that He would be captured and tried. It was Prophesied.

2) Keeping His mouth shut earned Him a beating and the loss of every drop of His blood (for you and me).

 

[thebrucebeat]

Christ didn't have to die on the cross. He could have escaped and moved to the Bahamas but He willingly chose to sacrifice Himself on behalf of ALL sinners on earth. That's grace! To claim that graceful act one must accept it by accepting Him (Jesus Christ). If you reject Him then you reject His graceful act and grace, itself.

If it is undeserved favor, those that reject it would receive it anyway.
The "if" is the giveaway.

Does anyone believe that they will be saved if they don't repent of their sin? Can a child molester continue molesting kids and still be rewarded in Heaven? A serial rapist? A mass murderer?

Acts 2:38, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Acts 3:19, "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"

Mark 1:15, "And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel."

Believers in Christ are subject to certain requirements: Belief in Christ; repentance of our sins; charitable love towards our neighbors; love of God; prayer; etc.

Agreed.
Those are the "ifs".
No grace.
Quid pro quo.

 

[Breakout]

For those of you who say there is no God, just walk out side on a clear night and look up at the stars, reach down and pluck a blade of grass, listen to the birds sing. Look your loved one in the eye. Life is a wonderful and beautiful gift. God gave us all this gift. There are so many wonderful things in the world, where did they all come from? Did they just appear? Who caused all of this? Who or what made it happen?
There can only be one logical answer and that answer is GOD.At least for me anyway.

 

[DriftingSand]

For those of you who say there is no God, just walk out side on a clear night and look up at the stars, reach down and pluck a blade of grass, listen to the birds sing. Look your loved one in the eye. Life is a wonderful and beautiful gift. God gave us all this gift. There are so many wonderful things in the world, where did they all come from? Did they just appear? Who caused all of this? Who or what made it happen?
There can only be one logical answer and that answer is GOD.At least for me anyway.

Psalms 19:1, "To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork."

I don't know why it is but some are able to see while others are blind. I wish I knew the answer to that.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Hi Gracie sweetie. Happy Easter. Bruce and I are just getting to know one another.

Bruce, dear soul, Odd you accuse me of being the very thing that Christ referred to the Holy Spirit as, the Comforter. It appeals to me more than Judge.

Any fault you see in these people has been worked out at the cross. It has nothing to do with you. Satan afflicts, Christ heals.

Stop pounding your righteous chest, and promoting your lofty position. The only job Christ entrusted to us is to love our Father, and love each other. He will determine the appropriate level of comfort of the individuals here. He is the only one qualified to do so. Unless you are without sin son, put the rock down.

You are doing exactly the same thing I am. Your target is me, that's all.
You are finding fault and pointing it out as you see it.
By shielding these people you make yourself a party to their ugliness.
When non-believers find you to be the reason to avoid the faith, take responsibility. You have earned that. Are you not "pounding your righteous chest, and promoting your lofty position"?
You are not the Holy Spirit. He would try to heal the affliction. You seek to maximize it and make them comfortable in it, to wallow in it.
The hypocrisy of not turning your judgment on these people as you do me is blatant. You will do post after post chastising me, but simply because these vicious cretins claim to follow the same god as you do you remain silent to far more egregious departures from civility than I have ever considered.
Happy Easter to you.
May your integrity be resurrected.

Bruce everything I have said to you comes from a desire to see you succeed here. I'd like to hear what you have to say, pro or con. I just want you to understand if you have a message to tell, it will be received under fire. Expect fire from all angles. Reciprocate and your message will be lost.

This is what my Dad would have told you, "If someone trespasses against you, put it behind you immediately, and your Father will extol the same courtesy to you. Replace their trespass with a kind response, and another, and another until you have made a friend. Then talk to your friend. And be nice to my daughter. She's a peach."

We're going to be friends eventually anyway. Might as well start now rather than later.
Peace to you.

 

[MrMax]

For those of you who say there is no God, just walk out side on a clear night and look up at the stars, reach down and pluck a blade of grass, listen to the birds sing. Look your loved one in the eye. Life is a wonderful and beautiful gift. God gave us all this gift. There are so many wonderful things in the world, where did they all come from? Did they just appear? Who caused all of this? Who or what made it happen?
There can only be one logical answer and that answer is GOD.At least for me anyway.

Wasn't it the great spaghetti monster?

 

[JimBowie1958]

For those of you who say there is no God, just walk out side on a clear night and look up at the stars, reach down and pluck a blade of grass, listen to the birds sing. Look your loved one in the eye. Life is a wonderful and beautiful gift. God gave us all this gift. There are so many wonderful things in the world, where did they all come from? Did they just appear? Who caused all of this? Who or what made it happen?
There can only be one logical answer and that answer is GOD.At least for me anyway.

Wasn't it the great spaghetti monster?

No, that was the cheap porn flick you watched while eating that cheap ass pizza.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Hi Gracie sweetie. Happy Easter. Bruce and I are just getting to know one another.

Bruce, dear soul, Odd you accuse me of being the very thing that Christ referred to the Holy Spirit as, the Comforter. It appeals to me more than Judge.

Any fault you see in these people has been worked out at the cross. It has nothing to do with you. Satan afflicts, Christ heals.

Stop pounding your righteous chest, and promoting your lofty position. The only job Christ entrusted to us is to love our Father, and love each other. He will determine the appropriate level of comfort of the individuals here. He is the only one qualified to do so. Unless you are without sin son, put the rock down.

You are doing exactly the same thing I am. Your target is me, that's all.
You are finding fault and pointing it out as you see it.
By shielding these people you make yourself a party to their ugliness.
When non-believers find you to be the reason to avoid the faith, take responsibility. You have earned that. Are you not "pounding your righteous chest, and promoting your lofty position"?
You are not the Holy Spirit. He would try to heal the affliction. You seek to maximize it and make them comfortable in it, to wallow in it.
The hypocrisy of not turning your judgment on these people as you do me is blatant. You will do post after post chastising me, but simply because these vicious cretins claim to follow the same god as you do you remain silent to far more egregious departures from civility than I have ever considered.
Happy Easter to you.
May your integrity be resurrected.

Bruce everything I have said to you comes from a desire to see you succeed here. I'd like to hear what you have to say, pro or con. I just want you to understand if you have a message to tell, it will be received under fire. Expect fire from all angles. Reciprocate and your message will be lost.

This is what my Dad would have told you, "If someone trespasses against you, put it behind you immediately, and your Father will extol the same courtesy to you. Replace their trespass with a kind response, and another, and another until you have made a friend. Then talk to your friend. And be nice to my daughter. She's a peach."

We're going to be friends eventually anyway. Might as well start now rather than later.
Peace to you.

"Succeed here"?
No one "succeeds" on forums.
When you start sharing your pearls with these horrific people I will begin to take you seriously.
Until then the hypocrisy is all that stands out.
By the way, it's a little creepy that your dad said "...be nice to my daughter. She's a peach".
Please tell me you didn't marry your sister.

 

[MrMax]

For those of you who say there is no God, just walk out side on a clear night and look up at the stars, reach down and pluck a blade of grass, listen to the birds sing. Look your loved one in the eye. Life is a wonderful and beautiful gift. God gave us all this gift. There are so many wonderful things in the world, where did they all come from? Did they just appear? Who caused all of this? Who or what made it happen?
There can only be one logical answer and that answer is GOD.At least for me anyway.

Wasn't it the great spaghetti monster?

No, that was the cheap porn flick you watched while eating that cheap ass pizza.

Doesn't god come from Kolob?

 

[HUGGY]

For those of you who say there is no God, just walk out side on a clear night and look up at the stars, reach down and pluck a blade of grass, listen to the birds sing. Look your loved one in the eye. Life is a wonderful and beautiful gift. God gave us all this gift. There are so many wonderful things in the world, where did they all come from? Did they just appear? Who caused all of this? Who or what made it happen?
There can only be one logical answer and that answer is GOD.At least for me anyway.

Would you please just get a friggin grip?

We are not cavemen.

We for the most part are not patients in a hospital coming out of a year long coma.

We know the stars are much like our sun comprised of super heated self sustaining gas.

We know you can go down to Home Depot and buy the nicest grass on the planet by the square yard.

We know stuff "just appears" if you get a job and have money in the bank.

We know how babies are made. Reproduction of all species is not a mystery anymore like it was when men invented gods to explain the unexplainable.

We know Santa Claus is a silly made up story that promotes the economy.

Christmas has nothing to do with Christ.

As long as there are people clinging to willfull ignorance and at the same time claiming they don't understand the simplest things religions will take advantage of these so called "mysteries" and self serve themselves to promote their existance.

We can wonder and solve the mysteries at the same time now.

Your gods have long ago served their purpose. They are long since dead.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You are doing exactly the same thing I am. Your target is me, that's all.
You are finding fault and pointing it out as you see it.
By shielding these people you make yourself a party to their ugliness.
When non-believers find you to be the reason to avoid the faith, take responsibility. You have earned that. Are you not "pounding your righteous chest, and promoting your lofty position"?
You are not the Holy Spirit. He would try to heal the affliction. You seek to maximize it and make them comfortable in it, to wallow in it.
The hypocrisy of not turning your judgment on these people as you do me is blatant. You will do post after post chastising me, but simply because these vicious cretins claim to follow the same god as you do you remain silent to far more egregious departures from civility than I have ever considered.
Happy Easter to you.
May your integrity be resurrected.

Bruce everything I have said to you comes from a desire to see you succeed here. I'd like to hear what you have to say, pro or con. I just want you to understand if you have a message to tell, it will be received under fire. Expect fire from all angles. Reciprocate and your message will be lost.

This is what my Dad would have told you, "If someone trespasses against you, put it behind you immediately, and your Father will extol the same courtesy to you. Replace their trespass with a kind response, and another, and another until you have made a friend. Then talk to your friend. And be nice to my daughter. She's a peach."

We're going to be friends eventually anyway. Might as well start now rather than later.
Peace to you.

"Succeed here"?
No one "succeeds" on forums.
When you start sharing your pearls with these horrific people I will begin to take you seriously.
Until then the hypocrisy is all that stands out.
By the way, it's a little creepy that your dad said "...be nice to my daughter. She's a peach".
Please tell me you didn't marry your sister.

You can succeed anywhere.
No matter what circumstance Joseph encountered it was apparent to the Egyptian hierarchy that God favored him. Everything Joseph did in that foreign land spelled success.
3 Jewish kids were successful in not getting burned. What are the odds of that considering they were in a furnace.
Paul was a success in prison.

I hope I've shared a pearl or two while I've been here. Here's one for you:

Christ died on the cross to save these "horrific" people. Who are you to criticize? The only person qualified to make that determination, won't. Even if they were caught in the act, He wouldn't judge them. That you think you are doing Him a favor by bringing their flaws to His attention, I can assure you, He knows. If He forgets one of us, He can always look at the scars.

Suit yourself on the offer to proceed as friends. And judge to the extent that you wished to be judged. I'll leave that for you to work out with your Judge. Makes me wonder how well Caiaphas made out.

Lastly, nothing about my Dad was creepy. I can truly say that I understand the love a Father can have for his child because of the love my Dad showered on me.
I will always be Daddy's little girl. The name refers to attitude, not gender.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Bruce everything I have said to you comes from a desire to see you succeed here. I'd like to hear what you have to say, pro or con. I just want you to understand if you have a message to tell, it will be received under fire. Expect fire from all angles. Reciprocate and your message will be lost.

This is what my Dad would have told you, "If someone trespasses against you, put it behind you immediately, and your Father will extol the same courtesy to you. Replace their trespass with a kind response, and another, and another until you have made a friend. Then talk to your friend. And be nice to my daughter. She's a peach."

We're going to be friends eventually anyway. Might as well start now rather than later.
Peace to you.

"Succeed here"?
No one "succeeds" on forums.
When you start sharing your pearls with these horrific people I will begin to take you seriously.
Until then the hypocrisy is all that stands out.
By the way, it's a little creepy that your dad said "...be nice to my daughter. She's a peach".
Please tell me you didn't marry your sister.

You can succeed anywhere.
No matter what circumstance Joseph encountered it was apparent to the Egyptian hierarchy that God favored him. Everything Joseph did in that foreign land spelled success.
3 Jewish kids were successful in not getting burned. What are the odds of that considering they were in a furnace.
Paul was a success in prison.

I hope I've shared a pearl or two while I've been here. Here's one for you:

Christ died on the cross to save these "horrific" people. Who are you to criticize? The only person qualified to make that determination, won't. Even if they were caught in the act, He wouldn't judge them. That you think you are doing Him a favor by bringing their flaws to His attention, I can assure you, He knows. If He forgets one of us, He can always look at the scars.

Suit yourself on the offer to proceed as friends. And judge to the extent that you wished to be judged. I'll leave that for you to work out with your Judge. Makes me wonder how well Caiaphas made out.

Lastly, nothing about my Dad was creepy. I can truly say that I understand the love a Father can have for his child because of the love my Dad showered on me.
I will always be Daddy's little girl. The name refers to attitude, not gender.

When you preach to them I'll take you seriously.
Right now you are just as judgmental as anyone else with blinders on regarding who you turn your judgment toward.
Please don't waste your time in preacher mode with me. I was one. I know all the verses, all the stories, all the homilies.
To quote Ecclesiastes, it is all a vapor, meaningless.
When people tell others to clean up their house while leaving their own in tatters it loses some of the punch.
From your post it wasn't in the least apparent to me that the daughter you were referring to was you. Sorry if I misunderstood that. If you read it again you may see why it was very confusing. My Dad was also one of those dads that couldn't hide his adoration for his kids, and I have followed in the same mode with my daughter.
All I see in you so far is a cheerleader for the home team, no matter how bad the team is. In high school that kind of loyalty could be applauded. In theology it leaves a very sour taste.

 

[HUGGY]

I can't help but imagine Emily plays this song when assembling her posts....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrnoR9cBP3o]Spoon Full of sugar - Mary poppins - YouTube[/ame]

Word Emily... you might try some new tricks ....

 

[dr.d]

Sigh...I guess it's only human to imagine the unimaginable...to yearn for eternal life when faced with death...to strive for that which may exist beyond our senses and short trek in this earth.
To me...heaven is a state of mind and spirit...on earth and perhaps beyond.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Pop23]

So, for some, Heaven is an actual physical place?

Is it in the sky?

If so, why can't we see it with telescopes? Why don't our astronauts pass it?

Cuz he don't want you to. If you were the almighty, you could create a kickin privacy fence.

 

[emilynghiem]

1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Heaven is incorruptible, undefiled and fadeth not away. I think that sums it up best.

How about absence or lack of FEAR

Since perfect LOVE casts out all FEAR
and heaven is supposed to be perfect love and peace of God,
wouldn't heaven be a perfect state free of all FEAR

also fear is "lack of faith"
so faith replaces fear with security

Would heavenly peace be perfect peace and security

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi Hugs
some of my more challenging messages to capture in words
came out to song lyrics to Nine Inch Nails, if you can believe it.

As many people thought I was blaspheming Christianity as blaspheming NIN by setting Christian lyrics to Reznor's songs considered a god to his fans.

I though the music captured the rage and pain caused to human conscience
in experience spiritual suffering, recovery and transformation.

Here are some of them, which convey the heartbreak of human genocide, anger, and
self-induced destruction, but within the context of stages of recovery and resolution:

Genocide

Spoof on Mr Self Destruct

No Thank You

Reformation

World Peace song

^ This one is probably most on topic, Sorry Jim
it's about world peace beginning with the changes we make locally
especially forgiving the people and things that are the very hardest for us ^

I can't help but imagine Emily plays this song when assembling her posts....

Spoon Full of sugar - Mary poppins - YouTube

Word Emily... you might try some new tricks ....

Sexiest movie scene - The Replacements (cheerleader edited scene) - YouTube

RE: sex scenes
Actually Huggy I do have a story where characters use a phone sex conversation to work through spiritual karma.
I may have posted the link before to "Like Angels in Heaven" about resolving karmic lust between past life soulmates
(in reference to "there will be no giving away in marriage, but it will be more like the Angels in Heaven")
I think that story is linked elsewhere on here if you search for Like Angels in Heaven, Thomas Jefferson, Maria Cosway under emilynghiem.
it's still about forgiveness and letting go, or else unforgiven guilt from past sins repeats in future generations,
but would distract even further from Jim's OP. If you want to start your own thread I can post it there instead.