How Old Is The Earth?

[IsaacNewton]

Ah, so magic means what you want it to mean and physical evidence is meaningless.

Enough said perfessor, carry on. I do my best to 'have discussions' with people that profess a 'god belief'. But it always becomes circular logic and people of faith who would feign 'enlightenment' are simply carping talking points they've seen on apologist websites.

Ten minutes of research will reveal the transition of life over the last 600 million years, if that is too much for you then we are done.

You stick with the magic flying grandpa and his unicorns.

No, you really don't have discussions with anyone. You're a religious bigot who wants to use science to try and disprove God. The problem is, you've encountered someone who actually knows some science and can argue your viewpoints. This scares the shit out of you and so you're going to attack and denigrate me.

Go and take 10 minutes or however many minutes you need, and find me some evidence of transition between GENUS of life, anywhere at any time. Find an example of a mutation which produced an improved organism. If you find a 'transitional' candidate, please explain the process for how it altered it's mitochondria to flawlessly produce re-coded DNA for the newly created organism? Oh... and "magic" isn't an explanation.

Its one of the mental ticks of conservatives that they think something "scares the shit out of" someone else. That thought only exists in your head.

I've had many long discussion with people of faith who 'profess' to know science and archeology but who really just fake it. I don't have to produce anything as this great invention called the internet allows all people everywhere to research anything at all. I already explained how you can find transitional species, you ignored that and are too lazy to type words in a search engine so no need to exert further energy on you.

I'm an agnostic, I don't say I know absolutely, that is the domain of the 'faithful'. I rely on evidence.

I already asked - one more time. Show evidence, and evidence isn't "well I look at a leaf and well it just has to be god", and I will study it. I haven't seen any evidence of any god at any time in history. Plenty of 'god's' that people have worshipped and every one believed their god was THE god. No evidence though. And none now. Your ignorance of the fossil record not-withstanding.

Until then you don't have anything to offer but 'belief' in magic, also which has no evidence of proof.

 

[BreezeWood]

you cannot KNOW ... You won't know if you are right until you die.

.
oh, did Columbus not KNOW after crossing the void ... and knew before his death.


the lazies are a dime a dozen ...

.

 

[Boss]

Ah, so magic means what you want it to mean and physical evidence is meaningless.

Enough said perfessor, carry on. I do my best to 'have discussions' with people that profess a 'god belief'. But it always becomes circular logic and people of faith who would feign 'enlightenment' are simply carping talking points they've seen on apologist websites.

Ten minutes of research will reveal the transition of life over the last 600 million years, if that is too much for you then we are done.

You stick with the magic flying grandpa and his unicorns.

No, you really don't have discussions with anyone. You're a religious bigot who wants to use science to try and disprove God. The problem is, you've encountered someone who actually knows some science and can argue your viewpoints. This scares the shit out of you and so you're going to attack and denigrate me.

Go and take 10 minutes or however many minutes you need, and find me some evidence of transition between GENUS of life, anywhere at any time. Find an example of a mutation which produced an improved organism. If you find a 'transitional' candidate, please explain the process for how it altered it's mitochondria to flawlessly produce re-coded DNA for the newly created organism? Oh... and "magic" isn't an explanation.

Its one of the mental ticks of conservatives that they think something "scares the shit out of" someone else. That thought only exists in your head.

I've had many long discussion with people of faith who 'profess' to know science and archeology but who really just fake it. I don't have to produce anything as this great invention called the internet allows all people everywhere to research anything at all. I already explained how you can find transitional species, you ignored that and are too lazy to type words in a search engine so no need to exert further energy on you.

I'm an agnostic, I don't say I know absolutely, that is the domain of the 'faithful'. I rely on evidence.

I already asked - one more time. Show evidence, and evidence isn't "well I look at a leaf and well it just has to be god", and I will study it. I haven't seen any evidence of any god at any time in history. Plenty of 'god's' that people have worshipped and every one believed their god was THE god. No evidence though. And none now. Your ignorance of the fossil record not-withstanding.

Until then you don't have anything to offer but 'belief' in magic, also which has no evidence of proof.

This is no mental trick, this is me challenging your false claim of transitional fossils. You cannot produce ANY transitional fossil between genus classification. All you have, which you call "transitional" are examples of new species within a genus. Now, I can give all kinds of examples of new species within a genus. If you watch the Westminster Dog Show, virtually every entry is such an example. What we don't have is an example of something outside the genus canis ever producing a dog or anything like a dog.

As for "evidence" I will ask you, as a scientist, what sort of valid evidence for God will you accept? I mean, you have the miracle of the DNA mitochondria... intricate digital code... a complete blueprint for what every living thing is.. contained within the microscopic interior of every cell of every living thing on the planet. Not enough?

Okay... what about light? The one thing that is required for any sort of perception of reality to happen or for life to exist. Is light a particle or a wave? We don't know because it defies our attempts to define it. If we observe it we see particles but it behaves as waves until observed. And if we use cleverness and try to trick it into thinking we're not looking, it can go back in time and alter what it was. Not enough?

Quantum entanglement. A subatomic particle can be entangled with another particle billions of light years away but when a change happens to one particle it immediately effects the entangled particle. Somehow, information travels faster than the speed of light because the change is instant. Not enough?

Dark matter. Representing a substantial part of our physical universe but not interacting. Dark matter particles are passing through your body and Earth as we speak and we are totally unaware of them. We can't observe them, we can't confine or measure them. We don't know what it is or how it works but we know the universe couldn't exist without dark matter and dark energy. It's 96% of what's there and we don't know what it is. Not enough?

Biogenesis. The odds of random chemical reactions ever creating the amino acids, enzymes and proteins for even the simplest cell of the simplest form of life is on the order of 10^120:1. There are 10^80 atoms in the entire universe. And yet, your BEST theory for this is a lighting bolt randomly struck a pool of primordial soup and life was "magically" created.

 

[Boss]

Plenty of 'god's' that people have worshipped and every one believed their god was THE god. No evidence though.

I can't argue on behalf of religion. You are correct, all through human history man has invented and created religions to help make sense of his intrinsic connection to something greater than self. The "scientist" in you should tell you there is something to this and it's not just a coincidence that we find the attribute of human spirituality in every aspect of human civilization we've ever unearthed. People from every corner of the world, with absolutely no knowledge of each other, practicing the same sort of spiritual ceremonies and rituals, building the same sort of monuments. It does not sound as if it's an anomaly without purpose or importance.

 

[ChesBayJJ]

This is no mental trick, this is me challenging your false claim of transitional fossils.


.

Start here

List of transitional fossils - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[IsaacNewton]

Plenty of 'god's' that people have worshipped and every one believed their god was THE god. No evidence though.

I can't argue on behalf of religion. You are correct, all through human history man has invented and created religions to help make sense of his intrinsic connection to something greater than self. The "scientist" in you should tell you there is something to this and it's not just a coincidence that we find the attribute of human spirituality in every aspect of human civilization we've ever unearthed. People from every corner of the world, with absolutely no knowledge of each other, practicing the same sort of spiritual ceremonies and rituals, building the same sort of monuments. It does not sound as if it's an anomaly without purpose or importance.

Rational, very refreshing.

I agree that 'spirituality' is real. I think most people are spiritual, having a sense of awe at what they see and what we know and have discovered through our intelligence. Ancient people's (and still some tribes today) had ceremonies to honor an animal they killed for food as animals and humans were on the same plane and life was life to them. They had reverence for the life in all living things.

And human civilizations around the world do have very similar cultural artifacts, like an origin story, a flood story, similar monuments as you mention (though I'd guess a pyramid is standard because it is the one structure that allows you to build very tall and a capstone with varying levels of stone below also carries symbolism of the hierarchy of most societies as well), similar 'religious' practices but also some very different religious practices. It is all based either on sympathetic magic(transfer of properties by contact) or homeopathic magic (transfer of properties by similarity). But it is based on magic, some supernatural 'power'.

And the ultimate expression of this is a 'god' that is omnipotent in all areas.

There is no evidence of any gods. Endless evidence of humans worshipping gods yes. Everything on Earth use to kill people on a regular basis and their primitive minds looked for ways to control these things. Religion is the result. A volcano erupts and kills half the tribe? There must be a fire god, let's toss ONE person in the volcano a year (the scapegoat, also something almost every human society developed independently) and save the rest of the tribe from being killed. We laugh at such things now and think them having the mentality of children because we know there are no volcano gods.

But what is the crucifixion of Jesus? It is the killing of a scapegoat that has taken on the evils of the entire tribe in order to cleanse the tribe. All common things 2000 years ago and what people then would see as normal.

I stand in awe of the universe, not because a 'god' created it, but because it did in fact just happen (all evidence suggests this) and we are here.

 

[ChesBayJJ]

Excellent post, Sir Isaac

 

[BreezeWood]

I stand in awe of the universe, not because a 'god' created it, but because it did in fact just happen (all evidence suggests this) and we are here.

.
- I agree that 'spirituality' is real .. /.. it did in fact just happen


more specifically, all evidence suggests a structure exists whether anything (else) exists or not.

.

 

[LittleNipper]

Pardon my French but that is CATHOLIC BULLSHIT

Is that a Christian thing to yell insults at people who you don't agree with?

It's not a disagreement. It's pointing out error, and I apologize for me passion in doing so. It is so incredibly ridiculous that people think that wine and wafers literally turns into Jesus' blood and body.

I agree, they should stop at the simply ridiculous, like believing in a talking snake, and an invisible being who hates gays.

God does not hate people that are attracted to the same sex.
But, because acting upon those feelings is unholy, God hates the action, just as he hates when a husband cheats on his wife, or, people having sex outside of marriage. God hates all sin.

God can make anything possible.... his is of unlimited power, knowledge and time.

But no one HAS to believe that. We all have free will

So god made actions that he hates? That doesn't even make any sense. If "God can make anything possible" then he can make sin disappear. Me, I get rid of shit I don't like in my life.

Satan is the author of sin. Man accepted Satin's lie hook line and sinker. And gays falsely believe that sexual desires makes the idividual.

 

[Bonzi]

That is true. Your sexuality and sexual desires do not define who you are.
We are in a battle - we must deny all of our sinful desires, that is only one of many........

 

[Mudda]

Is that a Christian thing to yell insults at people who you don't agree with?

It's not a disagreement. It's pointing out error, and I apologize for me passion in doing so. It is so incredibly ridiculous that people think that wine and wafers literally turns into Jesus' blood and body.

I agree, they should stop at the simply ridiculous, like believing in a talking snake, and an invisible being who hates gays.

God does not hate people that are attracted to the same sex.
But, because acting upon those feelings is unholy, God hates the action, just as he hates when a husband cheats on his wife, or, people having sex outside of marriage. God hates all sin.

God can make anything possible.... his is of unlimited power, knowledge and time.

But no one HAS to believe that. We all have free will

So god made actions that he hates? That doesn't even make any sense. If "God can make anything possible" then he can make sin disappear. Me, I get rid of shit I don't like in my life.

Satan is the author of sin. Man accepted Satin's lie hook line and sinker. And gays falsely believe that sexual desires makes the idividual.

God made gay people, they were born that way.
Satan is a fairy tale.
So today is a good day for you, you just learned two new things.

 

[Mudda]

That is true. Your sexuality and sexual desires do not define who you are.
We are in a battle - we must deny all of our sinful desires, that is only one of many........

Being gay is a desire? C'mon, you're smarter than that.

 

[Boss]

This is no mental trick, this is me challenging your false claim of transitional fossils.


.

Start here

List of transitional fossils - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

None of the examples show any transition between genus. They are all transitions from primitive species of the same genus. The list even gives the genus classifications.

 

[Boss]

Plenty of 'god's' that people have worshipped and every one believed their god was THE god. No evidence though.

I can't argue on behalf of religion. You are correct, all through human history man has invented and created religions to help make sense of his intrinsic connection to something greater than self. The "scientist" in you should tell you there is something to this and it's not just a coincidence that we find the attribute of human spirituality in every aspect of human civilization we've ever unearthed. People from every corner of the world, with absolutely no knowledge of each other, practicing the same sort of spiritual ceremonies and rituals, building the same sort of monuments. It does not sound as if it's an anomaly without purpose or importance.

Rational, very refreshing.

I agree that 'spirituality' is real. I think most people are spiritual, having a sense of awe at what they see and what we know and have discovered through our intelligence. Ancient people's (and still some tribes today) had ceremonies to honor an animal they killed for food as animals and humans were on the same plane and life was life to them. They had reverence for the life in all living things.

And human civilizations around the world do have very similar cultural artifacts, like an origin story, a flood story, similar monuments as you mention (though I'd guess a pyramid is standard because it is the one structure that allows you to build very tall and a capstone with varying levels of stone below also carries symbolism of the hierarchy of most societies as well), similar 'religious' practices but also some very different religious practices. It is all based either on sympathetic magic(transfer of properties by contact) or homeopathic magic (transfer of properties by similarity). But it is based on magic, some supernatural 'power'.

And the ultimate expression of this is a 'god' that is omnipotent in all areas.

There is no evidence of any gods. Endless evidence of humans worshipping gods yes. Everything on Earth use to kill people on a regular basis and their primitive minds looked for ways to control these things. Religion is the result. A volcano erupts and kills half the tribe? There must be a fire god, let's toss ONE person in the volcano a year (the scapegoat, also something almost every human society developed independently) and save the rest of the tribe from being killed. We laugh at such things now and think them having the mentality of children because we know there are no volcano gods.

But what is the crucifixion of Jesus? It is the killing of a scapegoat that has taken on the evils of the entire tribe in order to cleanse the tribe. All common things 2000 years ago and what people then would see as normal.

I stand in awe of the universe, not because a 'god' created it, but because it did in fact just happen (all evidence suggests this) and we are here.

There is no evidence of any gods.

And this is your opinion which I respect but I disagree. I see evidence of God in many areas of our physical universe. I think the fact that humans have this intrinsic attribute of being "spiritual" and it has always been present in humans, is evidence of God. It doesn't "prove" God because evidence is always subjective. You don't consider this evidence of God but I do.

Now, religious incarnations of God? I can doubt most any of them. I think humans really struggle with their spiritual connection and being the flawed creatures of nature they are, create a lot of really messed up religions through their connection. I certainly don't believe the only way any sort of God can exist is for it to be the God of Abraham. God may not even be a Deity. It may just be a force outside our physical nature. It's less difficult for me to believe we don't know about everything through physics.

I'm in awe of the universe as well. Particularly the strangest aspects we are now discovering that we simply don't have the answers for. When I consider the body of work, I have to conclude there must be a Creator. I can't rationalize how everything we know is true could be true without one.

 

[Mudda]

Plenty of 'god's' that people have worshipped and every one believed their god was THE god. No evidence though.

I can't argue on behalf of religion. You are correct, all through human history man has invented and created religions to help make sense of his intrinsic connection to something greater than self. The "scientist" in you should tell you there is something to this and it's not just a coincidence that we find the attribute of human spirituality in every aspect of human civilization we've ever unearthed. People from every corner of the world, with absolutely no knowledge of each other, practicing the same sort of spiritual ceremonies and rituals, building the same sort of monuments. It does not sound as if it's an anomaly without purpose or importance.

Rational, very refreshing.

I agree that 'spirituality' is real. I think most people are spiritual, having a sense of awe at what they see and what we know and have discovered through our intelligence. Ancient people's (and still some tribes today) had ceremonies to honor an animal they killed for food as animals and humans were on the same plane and life was life to them. They had reverence for the life in all living things.

And human civilizations around the world do have very similar cultural artifacts, like an origin story, a flood story, similar monuments as you mention (though I'd guess a pyramid is standard because it is the one structure that allows you to build very tall and a capstone with varying levels of stone below also carries symbolism of the hierarchy of most societies as well), similar 'religious' practices but also some very different religious practices. It is all based either on sympathetic magic(transfer of properties by contact) or homeopathic magic (transfer of properties by similarity). But it is based on magic, some supernatural 'power'.

And the ultimate expression of this is a 'god' that is omnipotent in all areas.

There is no evidence of any gods. Endless evidence of humans worshipping gods yes. Everything on Earth use to kill people on a regular basis and their primitive minds looked for ways to control these things. Religion is the result. A volcano erupts and kills half the tribe? There must be a fire god, let's toss ONE person in the volcano a year (the scapegoat, also something almost every human society developed independently) and save the rest of the tribe from being killed. We laugh at such things now and think them having the mentality of children because we know there are no volcano gods.

But what is the crucifixion of Jesus? It is the killing of a scapegoat that has taken on the evils of the entire tribe in order to cleanse the tribe. All common things 2000 years ago and what people then would see as normal.

I stand in awe of the universe, not because a 'god' created it, but because it did in fact just happen (all evidence suggests this) and we are here.

There is no evidence of any gods.

And this is your opinion which I respect but I disagree. I see evidence of God in many areas of our physical universe. I think the fact that humans have this intrinsic attribute of being "spiritual" and it has always been present in humans, is evidence of God. It doesn't "prove" God because evidence is always subjective. You don't consider this evidence of God but I do.

Now, religious incarnations of God? I can doubt most any of them. I think humans really struggle with their spiritual connection and being the flawed creatures of nature they are, create a lot of really messed up religions through their connection. I certainly don't believe the only way any sort of God can exist is for it to be the God of Abraham. God may not even be a Deity. It may just be a force outside our physical nature. It's less difficult for me to believe we don't know about everything through physics.

I'm in awe of the universe as well. Particularly the strangest aspects we are now discovering that we simply don't have the answers for. When I consider the body of work, I have to conclude there must be a Creator. I can't rationalize how everything we know is true could be true without one.

Human intrinsically believed that the earth was flat and at the middle of the universe, until that was proven wrong. A creator is the same, simply the fact that most people think that Obama is a Muslim doesn't make him one.

 

[Boss]

Human intrinsically believed that the earth was flat and at the middle of the universe, until that was proven wrong. A creator is the same, simply the fact that most people think that Obama is a Muslim doesn't make him one.

I don't think it's the same at all. This is more than some advanced monkeys believing in nonsense and superstition. You are entitled to draw that conclusion but drawing conclusions are not science exploration, are they?

"Intrinsic" means essential. It's obviously not essential we believe the Earth is flat or Obama is a Muslim. In fact, I would venture to say, if you were being threatened by crusaders to have your head chopped off and family killed, you might profusely disavow those beliefs. And yet, we have the evidence, millions of humans have died because of spiritual faith they refused to abandon.

You also indicated things that we once believed and no longer believe. There has never been a time when humans weren't spiritual. In spite of all the knowledge and scientific discovery, humans are still devoutly spiritual creatures. In order to compare with the notion of flat earth, you'd need to find evidence of widespread human belief that the earth is flat in spite of science telling us otherwise. Of course, this isn't the case.

While our minds change upon objective reasoning and examination of physical evidence, it has not changed our spirituality. It is true that believing Obama is a Muslim doesn't make him one but it's equally true that believing Obama is not a Muslim doesn't make him not one. Neither belief is spirituality.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

"How old is the Earth?"

""Earth," it says, "is old. Really old. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mindbogglingly old it is. I mean, you may think your great great grandmother was old, but that's just peanuts to the Earth. Listen..." (with profuse apologies to Douglas Adams)

 

[Boss]

Being gay is a desire? C'mon, you're smarter than that.

What exactly do we mean by "being gay?" Is this a person who is simply attracted sexually to the same gender or is it a person who engages in homosexual activity as a result of their attraction?

Setting aside the argument of whether gays are born gay, we seem to almost be trying to say that gays cannot control their sexual urges. A person could be born a pedophile and live their whole life having the urge or attraction to have sex with children... we expect them to control their urges.

"Being gay" might not be a desire... engaging in homosexual behavior IS a desire. But this seems to be the only sexual behavior that we don't believe people have any control over. We're changing our traditions and laws to accommodate their behavior... we don't do this for exhibitionists or anyone else.

 

[Uncensored2008]

6,000 years or 4.1 billion?

Here is one argument .....

How Old Is the Earth?

"The age of the earth debate ultimately comes down to this foundational question: Are we trusting man’s imperfect and changing ideas and assumptions about the past? Or are we trusting God’s perfectly accurate eyewitness account of the past, including the creation of the world, Noah’s global flood, and the age of the earth?"

4.6 billion years.

Why do you ask?

 

[Mudda]

Being gay is a desire? C'mon, you're smarter than that.

What exactly do we mean by "being gay?" Is this a person who is simply attracted sexually to the same gender or is it a person who engages in homosexual activity as a result of their attraction?

Setting aside the argument of whether gays are born gay, we seem to almost be trying to say that gays cannot control their sexual urges. A person could be born a pedophile and live their whole life having the urge or attraction to have sex with children... we expect them to control their urges.

"Being gay" might not be a desire... engaging in homosexual behavior IS a desire. But this seems to be the only sexual behavior that we don't believe people have any control over. We're changing our traditions and laws to accommodate their behavior... we don't do this for exhibitionists or anyone else.

People are born gay. Now you know.
You're the only one saying that gays can't control their urges. Now you know.
Engaging in heterosexual behaviour is also a desire. Now you know.
Try to get over your homophobia. But you knew that already.