I have a problem with some of the rhetoric the left uses when talking about the wall

[TheOldSchool]

Billions to build, countless billions more to maintain over the decades, countless billions more to statf and upgrade over the decades, a blatant insult against our allies in Latin and South America, a symbol of cowardice replacing the Statue of Liberty, and people who really want to come here will still get in. Maybe the cartels will charge more, that will make them happy.

It'd be expensive for sure. If that's your argument against it then we don't have an issue. I just wanted to say that if we did build it it would do what it's intended to do, which is act as a deterrent. It would slow them down.

Not by much, and at an exorbitant cost. And sooner rather than later it would fall to ruin and just be a failed eyesore impacting the ecosystem and doing little else.

$25 billion is trivial amount when compared against almost any Democrat progam. The cost of maintaining it is also trivil. It could easily last 5 years with almost no maintenance.

You know what's an eyesore? The cheap houses were illegals live 25 to a house.

As always, those who attack the wall are totally full of shit.

^ full of shit

That shoujld be 50 years, BTW.

LOL! Yeah go find a wall or building that hasn’t been maintenanced in 50 years and tell me what it looks like.

So fucking stupid

 

[bripat9643]

Why would anyone do that?

They're just talking shit. A well built modern wall is not easy to tear down, especially without somebody noticing and stopping you.

Prestressed concrete is virtually indestructible. Have you noticed any concreate high bridges that have fallen down after 50 years? Nope. According to these turds, they shouldn't have replaced the Oakland Bay bridge with a new prestressed concrete version.

 

[bripat9643]

How about more border control, that's jobs for Americans, new tech cameras to watch the border made in America, that's jobs for Americans. fix our intrasture, that's jobs for Americans. there must be better ways, besides a big ugly wall that costs billions of dollars that we don't have. the Republicans are talking about cutting Social Security & Medicare because we don't have enough money to keep it. lets explore all options.

How asbout a wall that save us over $100 bilion/year in welfare benefits for illegal aliens? The whine about the cost is obviously disengenuous. When did snowflakes ever worry about the cost of any of their social programs? The Dims just passed a budget with hundres of billions in new spending. I didn't notice any of you douchebags whining about all the new spending. In fact, you positively gloated about it.

You're totally full of shit. You're a sleazy lying dirtbag. You aren't fooling anyone.

 

[bripat9643]

Yeah! How many years do you think it will be before we’ve totalled $1 trillion on wall spending, and there are still millions of illegals in the country and more still coming in?

Considering the construction is estimated to be like 30-40 billion I think it'd take a long time to reach a trillion dollars spent on the wall. Cost arguments aside, do you accept that a well built border wall would serve as a potentially strong deterrent to illegal immigrants?

Potentially strong? No. Not over 2,000 miles of widely varying terrain.

Factor in maintenance, staffing, and all costs that go with that and I say we spend a trillion within 10 years. And there will still be a over 11 million illegals in the country.

You so totally full of shit your eyes are brown. A border with a wall requires less staff than a border with a wall. We already have pleny of staff on the border. We don't have to had more because of the wall. That's just open-borders propaganda. maintenance of a prestressed wall will be virtually zero. How much maintenance do you see them doing on all the overpasses in your city? That's right, none.

 

[BlindBoo]

The idea that a wall will keep anyone or anything out of our country is ludicrous. I think we also need a mote to go along with it, a mine field and a free fire zone where real Americans can remote control the weapons (pay per shot only), all from the comfort of their own homes.

Israel’s wall and the Israeli/Egyptian Wall work pretty well.

Different dynamics. The Berlin Wall worked pretty well too.

You're right, there are different dynamics between those walls. There are also different dynamics between those walls and the one proposed for the southern border.

All of those walls you listed are much shorter and are able to be patrolled 24/7. The southern wall with Mexico is too big for that.

So, are you thinking what I'm thinking? Automated Attack Drone Patrols (AADP) and not the pay per shot option in the free fire zones?

 

[bripat9643]

Billions to build, countless billions more to maintain over the decades, countless billions more to statf and upgrade over the decades, a blatant insult against our allies in Latin and South America, a symbol of cowardice replacing the Statue of Liberty, and people who really want to come here will still get in. Maybe the cartels will charge more, that will make them happy.

It'd be expensive for sure. If that's your argument against it then we don't have an issue. I just wanted to say that if we did build it it would do what it's intended to do, which is act as a deterrent. It would slow them down.

I really don't think the argument from both the neo-liberal left, and the neo-con right about expense is a compelling argument when you break it down either. Let's analyze it, shall we?

We now live in a welfare/warfare state.

I too am like you, I tend to be against both current parties as viewed from the left-libertarian/classical liberal perspective. We have strayed from the founders vision mightily.

For instance I noted this statement;

"Billions to build, countless billions more to maintain over the decades, countless billions more to staff and upgrade over the decades,"

How is this any different than the federal outlays for the interstate highway system, which also serves a compelling national interest? We all agree that this is necessary for our national economic priorities.

So, if the wall would work, then the countess billions spent on it's infrastructure would benefit the national economy, as both a federal jobs program and a compelling capital investment, and a security investment in the same way that spending on the interstate highway system boosts the economy.

Likewise, as you pointed out, it would serve the national interest as long as the US and Mexico/South America have economies which are so divergent that people are tempted to try to break the law to unlawfully immigrate.

Our highways power the economy. Trump’s wall powers nothing.

I hold no opinion on that over the long term. I can tell you that the Berlin wall, and the check points in eastern Europe and the Soviet Union were quite effective in keeping people from going out, and Israel's wall is effective from keeping people from entering.


So. . . unless you think that the Coast Guard can't be at least as effective at keeping other nationalities out as they are at preventing Cuban's and Haitians from entering, I think you are probably mistaken.

So if I were you, I would not be so naive and partisan as to make any such sweeping assumptions.

You are making assumptions because you are hyper-partisan.



OTH, if you every posted in any thread about Obama's stimulus program. .. .


Then you are being a hypocrite. It is impossible to build something that massive without creating thousands of jobs.

Yeah lots of jobs paid by tax payer cheddar. And illegals coming in without skipping a beat.

Quit pretending that you object to illegal aliens coming in.

 

[bripat9643]

Billions to build, countless billions more to maintain over the decades, countless billions more to statf and upgrade over the decades, a blatant insult against our allies in Latin and South America, a symbol of cowardice replacing the Statue of Liberty, and people who really want to come here will still get in. Maybe the cartels will charge more, that will make them happy.

It'd be expensive for sure. If that's your argument against it then we don't have an issue. I just wanted to say that if we did build it it would do what it's intended to do, which is act as a deterrent. It would slow them down.

I really don't think the argument from both the neo-liberal left, and the neo-con right about expense is a compelling argument when you break it down either. Let's analyze it, shall we?

We now live in a welfare/warfare state.

I too am like you, I tend to be against both current parties as viewed from the left-libertarian/classical liberal perspective. We have strayed from the founders vision mightily.

For instance I noted this statement;

"Billions to build, countless billions more to maintain over the decades, countless billions more to staff and upgrade over the decades,"

How is this any different than the federal outlays for the interstate highway system, which also serves a compelling national interest? We all agree that this is necessary for our national economic priorities.

So, if the wall would work, then the countess billions spent on it's infrastructure would benefit the national economy, as both a federal jobs program and a compelling capital investment, and a security investment in the same way that spending on the interstate highway system boosts the economy.

Likewise, as you pointed out, it would serve the national interest as long as the US and Mexico/South America have economies which are so divergent that people are tempted to try to break the law to unlawfully immigrate.

Our highways power the economy. Trump’s wall powers nothing.

It powers keeping a hoard of bloodsucking ticks out of the country, dirtbag.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Yeah! How many years do you think it will be before we’ve totalled $1 trillion on wall spending, and there are still millions of illegals in the country and more still coming in?

Considering the construction is estimated to be like 30-40 billion I think it'd take a long time to reach a trillion dollars spent on the wall. Cost arguments aside, do you accept that a well built border wall would serve as a potentially strong deterrent to illegal immigrants?

Potentially strong? No. Not over 2,000 miles of widely varying terrain.

Factor in maintenance, staffing, and all costs that go with that and I say we spend a trillion within 10 years. And there will still be a over 11 million illegals in the country.

You so totally full of shit your eyes are brown. A border with a wall requires less staff than a border with a wall. We already have pleny of staff on the border. We don't have to had more because of the wall. That's just open-borders propaganda. maintenance of a prestressed wall will be virtually zero. How much maintenance do you see them doing on all the overpasses in your city? That's right, none.

Are you stupid? What do you call road paving? And all the inspections they do? And that’s without even having to check if people are breaking through anything or finding ways under or over anything.

God you’re dumb.

 

[hunarcy]

It'd be expensive for sure. If that's your argument against it then we don't have an issue. I just wanted to say that if we did build it it would do what it's intended to do, which is act as a deterrent. It would slow them down.

Not by much, and at an exorbitant cost. And sooner rather than later it would fall to ruin and just be a failed eyesore impacting the ecosystem and doing little else.

$25 billion is trivial amount when compared against almost any Democrat progam. The cost of maintaining it is also trivil. It could easily last 5 years with almost no maintenance.

You know what's an eyesore? The cheap houses were illegals live 25 to a house.

As always, those who attack the wall are totally full of shit.

^ full of shit

That shoujld be 50 years, BTW.

LOL! Yeah go find a wall or building that hasn’t been maintenanced in 50 years and tell me what it looks like.

So fucking stupid

You certainly are.

 

[bripat9643]

The idea that a wall will keep anyone or anything out of our country is ludicrous. I think we also need a mote to go along with it, a mine field and a free fire zone where real Americans can remote control the weapons (pay per shot only), all from the comfort of their own homes.

It's hardly ludicrous. Such claims are based on nothing aside from pure prejudice against the wall. The empirical evidence shows exactly the opposite.

You're just another sleazy lying open borders douchebag.

 

[bripat9643]

Yeah! How many years do you think it will be before we’ve totalled $1 trillion on wall spending, and there are still millions of illegals in the country and more still coming in?

Considering the construction is estimated to be like 30-40 billion I think it'd take a long time to reach a trillion dollars spent on the wall. Cost arguments aside, do you accept that a well built border wall would serve as a potentially strong deterrent to illegal immigrants?

Potentially strong? No. Not over 2,000 miles of widely varying terrain.

Factor in maintenance, staffing, and all costs that go with that and I say we spend a trillion within 10 years. And there will still be a over 11 million illegals in the country.

You so totally full of shit your eyes are brown. A border with a wall requires less staff than a border with a wall. We already have pleny of staff on the border. We don't have to had more because of the wall. That's just open-borders propaganda. maintenance of a prestressed wall will be virtually zero. How much maintenance do you see them doing on all the overpasses in your city? That's right, none.

Are you stupid? What do you call road paving? And all the inspections they do? And that’s without even having to check if people are breaking through anything or finding ways under or over anything.

God you’re dumb.

Road paving is road paving. It's laying on the ground, which freezes and thaws, and millions of cars drive over it every year. Aside from a little rain, what kind of wear is the wall going to experience? Answer: none.

You obviously don't know jack about any engineering issue. You should shut the fuck up before you make a total fucking fool of yourself.

Whoops, to late!

 

[TheOldSchool]

Yeah! How many years do you think it will be before we’ve totalled $1 trillion on wall spending, and there are still millions of illegals in the country and more still coming in?

Considering the construction is estimated to be like 30-40 billion I think it'd take a long time to reach a trillion dollars spent on the wall. Cost arguments aside, do you accept that a well built border wall would serve as a potentially strong deterrent to illegal immigrants?

Potentially strong? No. Not over 2,000 miles of widely varying terrain.

Factor in maintenance, staffing, and all costs that go with that and I say we spend a trillion within 10 years. And there will still be a over 11 million illegals in the country.

You so totally full of shit your eyes are brown. A border with a wall requires less staff than a border with a wall. We already have pleny of staff on the border. We don't have to had more because of the wall. That's just open-borders propaganda. maintenance of a prestressed wall will be virtually zero. How much maintenance do you see them doing on all the overpasses in your city? That's right, none.

Are you stupid? What do you call road paving? And all the inspections they do? And that’s without even having to check if people are breaking through anything or finding ways under or over anything.

God you’re dumb.

Road paving is road paving. It's laying on the ground, which freezes and thaws, and millions of cars drive over it every year. Aside from a little rain, what kind of wear is the wall going to experience? Answer: none.

You obviously don't know jack about any engineering issue. You should shut the fuck up before you make a total fucking fool of yourself.

Whoops, to late!

Says a guy who thinks Mexico is going to pay for it

 

[bripat9643]

Not by much

I can't really say for sure one way or the other. Can you? It seems to me that it could be a pretty effective deterrent if it's built right.

Yeah! How many years do you think it will be before we’ve totalled $1 trillion on wall spending, and there are still millions of illegals in the country and more still coming in?

Can you PROVE there will still be millions of illegals in the country and more still coming in?

Can you PROVE there won’t be? Fucking idiot.

You wouldn't be crying about the wall of you knew it wouldn't work.

 

[bripat9643]

Considering the construction is estimated to be like 30-40 billion I think it'd take a long time to reach a trillion dollars spent on the wall. Cost arguments aside, do you accept that a well built border wall would serve as a potentially strong deterrent to illegal immigrants?

Potentially strong? No. Not over 2,000 miles of widely varying terrain.

Factor in maintenance, staffing, and all costs that go with that and I say we spend a trillion within 10 years. And there will still be a over 11 million illegals in the country.

You so totally full of shit your eyes are brown. A border with a wall requires less staff than a border with a wall. We already have pleny of staff on the border. We don't have to had more because of the wall. That's just open-borders propaganda. maintenance of a prestressed wall will be virtually zero. How much maintenance do you see them doing on all the overpasses in your city? That's right, none.

Are you stupid? What do you call road paving? And all the inspections they do? And that’s without even having to check if people are breaking through anything or finding ways under or over anything.

God you’re dumb.

Road paving is road paving. It's laying on the ground, which freezes and thaws, and millions of cars drive over it every year. Aside from a little rain, what kind of wear is the wall going to experience? Answer: none.

You obviously don't know jack about any engineering issue. You should shut the fuck up before you make a total fucking fool of yourself.

Whoops, to late!

Says a guy who thinks Mexico is going to pay for it

When did I say that?

 

[TheOldSchool]

Not by much

I can't really say for sure one way or the other. Can you? It seems to me that it could be a pretty effective deterrent if it's built right.

Yeah! How many years do you think it will be before we’ve totalled $1 trillion on wall spending, and there are still millions of illegals in the country and more still coming in?

Can you PROVE there will still be millions of illegals in the country and more still coming in?

Can you PROVE there won’t be? Fucking idiot.

You wouldn't be crying about the wall of you knew it wouldn't work.

That’s the main reason I AM crying about it. Sooooo dumb why do I bother with you?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Yeah! How many years do you think it will be before we’ve totalled $1 trillion on wall spending, and there are still millions of illegals in the country and more still coming in?

Considering the construction is estimated to be like 30-40 billion I think it'd take a long time to reach a trillion dollars spent on the wall. Cost arguments aside, do you accept that a well built border wall would serve as a potentially strong deterrent to illegal immigrants?

Potentially strong? No. Not over 2,000 miles of widely varying terrain.

Factor in maintenance, staffing, and all costs that go with that and I say we spend a trillion within 10 years. And there will still be a over 11 million illegals in the country.

...and the lawsuits.

 

[Vandalshandle]

So when talking about the wall the left likes to imply that it won't serve any practical purpose. "People will dig under it, climb over it, fly over it and some of them will even blah blah blah..."

Yes, you are correct that a wall won't be an absolute solution to the problem of illegals crossing the border, but it's outright dishonest to say it won't at least be a powerful deterrent. It won't stop all of them, but it will stop some or many of them. Walls work, and there are a lot of modern examples that demonstrate that truth.

Yes, there are examples. Hadrian's wall to keep out the Scots. Well, no, they overran the Romans who left Britain. Then, there is the Chinese wall. Well, no, the mongols bribed their way through it, and conquered China. The Berlin wall kept people in. Well, not really, it was torn down, and part of it is in the urinal at Main Street Station casino in Vegas. They have a nice wall down in Nogalas in Southern AZ., but there have been 121 tunnels discovered under it in the last 15 years.

Walls don't work.

 

[bendog]

So when talking about the wall the left likes to imply that it won't serve any practical purpose. "People will dig under it, climb over it, fly over it and some of them will even blah blah blah..."

Yes, you are correct that a wall won't be an absolute solution to the problem of illegals crossing the border, but it's outright dishonest to say it won't at least be a powerful deterrent. It won't stop all of them, but it will stop some or many of them. Walls work, and there are a lot of modern examples that demonstrate that truth.

True, but for 25 billion, and it'll cost at least twice that in all what with buying property and cost overruns ....., and in the end it's just a publicity stunt.

 

[bendog]

Yeah! How many years do you think it will be before we’ve totalled $1 trillion on wall spending, and there are still millions of illegals in the country and more still coming in?

Considering the construction is estimated to be like 30-40 billion I think it'd take a long time to reach a trillion dollars spent on the wall. Cost arguments aside, do you accept that a well built border wall would serve as a potentially strong deterrent to illegal immigrants?

Potentially strong? No. Not over 2,000 miles of widely varying terrain.

Factor in maintenance, staffing, and all costs that go with that and I say we spend a trillion within 10 years. And there will still be a over 11 million illegals in the country.

...and the lawsuits.

Attorney's FEES.

 

[bripat9643]

So when talking about the wall the left likes to imply that it won't serve any practical purpose. "People will dig under it, climb over it, fly over it and some of them will even blah blah blah..."

Yes, you are correct that a wall won't be an absolute solution to the problem of illegals crossing the border, but it's outright dishonest to say it won't at least be a powerful deterrent. It won't stop all of them, but it will stop some or many of them. Walls work, and there are a lot of modern examples that demonstrate that truth.

There are no examples that a wall of this length works.

The wall is a stupid symbolic gesture which will have no impact on our economy or our country whatsoever. It's a mental masturbation fantasy.

You win the award for the dumbest argument in this thread. There is an abundance of empiracle evidence that walls work. hat you're saying is that if Boeing builds a plane 100 ft long, then it can't build one 200 ft long. Every engineer in the world would laugh in your face if they heard that.