if a pregnant woman is attacked and her baby dies has murder been committed ??

[varelse]

Odd, usually homicide is considered a public matter

Not necessarily when it's lawful homicide.

The law is itself a public matter, so you're right back where we started

 

[Faun]

some elderly people rely physically on the bodies of younger people to help them get around,and take care of themselves ....according to your leftist views they should be terminated !! i guess you would have no problem with death panels .

In some cases, this is correct, such as when someone is on life support and not expected to ever live again without it. It is acceptable in our society to "abort" them.

life support is not the same a assisted living !! a person who is brain dead should not be allowed to linger .the point i am making is that just because someone [a baby or the elderly] needs another to survive does not mean they have no right to life !!

Your analogy is twisted. It's based on the false premise that the person taking care of the elderly can't simply find another job. They are under no obligation to care for them.

... get this ... and this is using your analogy ..... it's a choice they make.

 

[Faun]

Odd, usually homicide is considered a public matter

Not necessarily when it's lawful homicide.

The law is itself a public matter, so you're right back where we started

No, it's a medical procedure, with privacy protected by HIPPA.

 

[varelse]

It's a 'medical procedure' aimed at killing a human being.

And you have no privacy under hippa if you do so 91 days after implantation of the blastocyst [that's a stage of development, like blastoshpere, foetus, infant, or adult] into the uterine wall. That's ~92-95 days after fertilization. Somewhere over the course of that 72-hour span, something magical happens that nobody can name and you stopped being your mother's body/property/parasite/rapebaby/accident and became her ticket to a welfare check and a tax break so long as she picked you up from Wal-Mart before CPS came over.

Strange ways and thinking, you people have.

 

[varelse]

Hey Faun, at exactly what point- date and time to the second, please- did it go from being okay to kill you because your presence annoys your mama to okay to kill you because your presence annoys our mama?

 

[Faun]

It's a 'medical procedure' aimed at killing a human being.

And you have no privacy under hippa if you do so 91 days after implantation of the blastocyst [that's a stage of development, like blastoshpere, foetus, infant, or adult] into the uterine wall. That's ~92-95 days after fertilization. Somewhere over the course of that 72-hour span, something magical happens that nobody can name and you stopped being your mother's body/property/parasite/rapebaby/accident and became her ticket to a welfare check and a tax break so long as she picked you up from Wal-Mart before CPS came over.

Strange ways and thinking, you people have.

Umm, no. All legally performed abortions, regardless of what stage they're at, are medical procedures. In many states, abortions even after the 91st day are still legal and are still protected by HIPPA. This may suck for you, but women still get to choose and you still don't get to know about it.

 

[Faun]

Hey Faun, at exactly what point- date and time to the second, please- did it go from being okay to kill you because your presence annoys your mama to okay to kill you because your presence annoys our mama?

It's not up to me to decide that ... it's up to society. Our society says it's ok. Personally, I'm against abortion. But being a Liberal, I also believe I have no standing to enforce that belief in a society which chooses to allow abortions.

 

[varelse]

It's a 'medical procedure' aimed at killing a human being.

And you have no privacy under hippa if you do so 91 days after implantation of the blastocyst [that's a stage of development, like blastoshpere, foetus, infant, or adult] into the uterine wall. That's ~92-95 days after fertilization. Somewhere over the course of that 72-hour span, something magical happens that nobody can name and you stopped being your mother's body/property/parasite/rapebaby/accident and became her ticket to a welfare check and a tax break so long as she picked you up from Wal-Mart before CPS came over.

Strange ways and thinking, you people have.

Umm, no. All legally performed abortions, regardless of what stage they're at, are medical procedures. In many states, abortions even after the 91st day are still legal and are still protected by HIPPA. This may suck for you, but women still get to choose and you still don't get to know about it.

They have to prove medical necessity, in accordance with Law, or be charged for their crime if discovered.

Hey Faun, at exactly what point- date and time to the second, please- did it go from being okay to kill you because your presence annoys your mama to okay to kill you because your presence annoys our mama?

It's not up to me to decide that ... it's up to society.

So it's up to society to decide whether it's okay to kill Faun? So if we were to once again pass a law saying it's okay to kill Mormons, which has been done in one of the member States before, that'd be okay, so long as society goes along with it?

So you don't believe in any conception of natural or unalienable Rights?

 

[Faun]

It's a 'medical procedure' aimed at killing a human being.

And you have no privacy under hippa if you do so 91 days after implantation of the blastocyst [that's a stage of development, like blastoshpere, foetus, infant, or adult] into the uterine wall. That's ~92-95 days after fertilization. Somewhere over the course of that 72-hour span, something magical happens that nobody can name and you stopped being your mother's body/property/parasite/rapebaby/accident and became her ticket to a welfare check and a tax break so long as she picked you up from Wal-Mart before CPS came over.

Strange ways and thinking, you people have.

Umm, no. All legally performed abortions, regardless of what stage they're at, are medical procedures. In many states, abortions even after the 91st day are still legal and are still protected by HIPPA. This may suck for you, but women still get to choose and you still don't get to know about it.

They have to prove medical necessity, in accordance with Law, or be charged for their crime if discovered.

Hey Faun, at exactly what point- date and time to the second, please- did it go from being okay to kill you because your presence annoys your mama to okay to kill you because your presence annoys our mama?

It's not up to me to decide that ... it's up to society.

So it's up to society to decide whether it's okay to kill Faun? So if we were to once again pass a law saying it's okay to kill Mormons, which has been done in one of the member States before, that'd be okay, so long as society goes along with it?

Of course it's not ok. But we live in a society where the people make the laws. This is not a dictatorship. I don't agree with every law. I don't like every law. But I also understand that my beliefs do not dictate the law.

If you don't like abortion, don't have one. But you don't get to make that choice for others just because you believe it's murder when they don't.

So you don't believe in any conception of natural or unalienable Rights?

I don't believe those rights extend to a fetus.

 

[varelse]

So when the law is wrong, you simply shrug and say 'oh well' as Carrie buck is sterilized, Japanese are rounded up, Natives are exterminated, or you're thrown into a blacksite to be tortured because your dog crapped in your neighbor's yard and he said you were sympathetic toward anti-government extremist libertarians?

And exactly at what age, and why, did it stop being okay to kill you on a whim?

 

[Faun]

So when the law is wrong, you simply shrug and say 'oh well' as Carrie buck is sterilized, Japanese are rounded up, Natives are exterminated, or you're thrown into a blacksite to be tortured because your dog crapped in your neighbor's yard and he said you were sympathetic toward anti-government extremist libertarians?

And exactly at what age, and why, did it stop being okay to kill you on a whim?

This entire post is based on the false premise that the law is wrong. That's your opinion, but that doesn't make it so. We, as a society, decides that.

 

[Wehrwolfen]

How many times is this argument going to be raised?

One is voluntary, one is not. There's a huge difference, end of thread.

Really? Please expand your logic.

 

[varelse]

So when the law is wrong, you simply shrug and say 'oh well' as Carrie buck is sterilized, Japanese are rounded up, Natives are exterminated, or you're thrown into a blacksite to be tortured because your dog crapped in your neighbor's yard and he said you were sympathetic toward anti-government extremist libertarians?

And exactly at what age, and why, did it stop being okay to kill you on a whim?

This entire post is based on the false premise that the law is wrong. That's your opinion, but that doesn't make it so. We, as a society, decides that.

You don't think Buck v. Bell, internment camps, or kidnapping and torture are wrong?

Or you're simply evading again?

 

[Wicked Jester]

They foetus survives?

Where have they all been hiding?

Abortion is not murder. Get it through your head.

Which one would you kill and which one do you consider human?

I would have terminated them both at birth. They are a monstrosity and shouldn't have been born in the first place. If there is a God, he fucked up badly.

You, "would have terminated them at birth"?

Wow....It's quite rare to see someone actually admit they would cold bloodedly murder another human being......You truly are a very sick in the head individual.

 

[Faun]

So when the law is wrong, you simply shrug and say 'oh well' as Carrie buck is sterilized, Japanese are rounded up, Natives are exterminated, or you're thrown into a blacksite to be tortured because your dog crapped in your neighbor's yard and he said you were sympathetic toward anti-government extremist libertarians?

And exactly at what age, and why, did it stop being okay to kill you on a whim?

This entire post is based on the false premise that the law is wrong. That's your opinion, but that doesn't make it so. We, as a society, decides that.

You don't think Buck v. Bell, internment camps, or kidnapping and torture are wrong?

Or you're simply evading again?

I believe those are wrong. So what? As far as kidnapping and torture; we, as a society, have decided they should be outlawed.

 

[Faun]

They foetus survives?

Where have they all been hiding?

Abortion is not murder. Get it through your head.

Which one would you kill and which one do you consider human?

I would have terminated them both at birth. They are a monstrosity and shouldn't have been born in the first place. If there is a God, he fucked up badly.

You, "would have terminated them at birth"?

Wow....It's quite rare to see someone actually admit they would cold bloodedly murder another human being......You truly are a very sick in the head individual.

Very sick indeed.

 

[varelse]

As far as kidnapping and torture; we, as a society, have decided they should be outlawed.

And yet our government does these very things.

Should we simply shrug our shoulders, as you implied earlier? What do you do if the law is wrong or the State takes immoral action?

Are you a Moralist or a Statist? Do you follow your conscience or the Senate? What is more important, the laws of man or those of your own morality? Do you make any effort to change the laws or simply say that 'society' has chosen?

Buck v. Bell is still on the books and US federal law still allows for forced sterilization if any member state chooses to institute such measures once again at any time. Roe v. wade, despite being built on perjury, is on the books. Are those who disagree with it for moral reasons wrong for wanting to change the laws any more than those on the other side are wrong for trying to change the laws to suit their own beliefs and aims?

What irks me, personally, is that the pro-abortion side can never be honest. In every abortion thread, they [as a group] insist they started as some other species and magically transformed into a human at some point in time.

 

[Noomi]

They foetus survives?

Where have they all been hiding?

Abortion is not murder. Get it through your head.

Which one would you kill and which one do you consider human?

I would have terminated them both at birth. They are a monstrosity and shouldn't have been born in the first place. If there is a God, he fucked up badly.

You, "would have terminated them at birth"?

Wow....It's quite rare to see someone actually admit they would cold bloodedly murder another human being......You truly are a very sick in the head individual.

Mercy killing. Its allowed in some countries.

 

[billyerock1991]

no they're is guilty of assault

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Killing an unborn baby by harming or killing the mother, against her will, is murder.

Killing an unborn baby by elective abortion is not.

One is elective, one is not. Pretty simple.

You’re on the right track…

The OP and his supporters are confusing civil law with criminal law.